hydrogen peroxide concentration

[jfk]

ive got 5Lt of 50% H2O2, but i cant find a synth for AP that calls for this percentage.
however most call for 50mL 30% H2O2, i was wondering how i could figure out how much of the 50% i should use...


50mL 30%
x mL 50%

i was thinking 100/30=3.3, 100/50=2

then 50 / 3.3 x 2 = 30mL approx ??

[jfk]

ok this abit off my topic here, but i didnt want to make annother thread to annoy mods with...


whats ANNM ?

ive detonated APAN before, ive made RDX, and detonated it..........im reasonably well learned in making explosives. but ive seen alot of ANNM but never heard what its really called.......

[0EZ0]

jfk, please try and search before you post a question.
Both your questions could more than easily have been answered with a few clicks.

ANNM = Ammonium Nitrate + Nitromethane

Also called Kinepak, it is a high velocity binary explosive composition. Run a search fer' christ's sake.

As in regards to the peroxide, you may also wish to search for an answer! It has been discussed many times over.

If you want to use 50% Hydrogen peroxide instead of 30%, then adjust the ratios like this:

If you normally use 10ml of 30% peroxide, that means that there is approximately 3ml pure peroxide in the solution. 3ml multiplied times 2 gives you 6ml of 50% peroxide. So the adjusted ratio of peroxide is 6ml 50% H2O2 instead of 10ml 30% H2O2.

I do hope that these questions aren't the same kind that we will be seeing on the rest of the forum. Work on expanding your knowledge to answer you own questions, instead of always asking to be hand-fed...

[a_bab]

Quote: "ive made RDX, and detonated it..........im reasonably well learned in making explosives"

Really ?! And how comes that you are not able to do this simple calculation ?

[Leadazide]

I would suggest buying a basic, very basic, chemistry book!

[Einsteinium]

jfk have you ever heard about dilution? It's a wonderful procedure that allows you to produce 30% H2O2 from the apparently available 50% H2O2... You're far away from being well learned in making explosive if you don’t know how to dilute an aqueous solution. This is fundamental! I would advise you to perform a simple search for "beginner chemistry" (or something alike) on a decent search engine. Simply add 66mL distilled water to 100mL of 50% H2O2 and you will end up with 166mL 30% H2O2 (or scale up/down for whatever quantity you need… I hope you know how to scale up/down?). BTW, even if many chemical procedures often works well using more concentrated reagents, it's usually better to dilute your reagents down to what the procedure calls upon instead of taking useless risks (especially in the synthesis of a very unstable explosive, carried out by a neophyte chemist)...

[DaveTheShit]

The extra few mL of water from dilluting it will probably reduce the yield a bit. I'm basing this on the compairison of 3% to 30% H2O2 I did once. Using 50% H2O2, you'll have a harder time controling the temperature, but with care it can be done.

[Anthony]

Why should there be a reduction in yield? There's the same number of molecules of reactants in there, just a few extra water ones.

[zeocrash]

are you sure that was RDX you made and detonated.
what method did you use to make it, and what primary explosive did you use to detonate it. like everyone else i struggle to believe that you made RDX and are well learned in the ways of explosives, when you cant even do a simple calculation to work out how to dilute the H2O2
look i'll do it for you if you want,
so for every 60 measures of H2O2 you need to add 40 measures of water.
(i believe my calculations are correct, i went in reverse, working out how much water would need to be removed to make 30% into 50% but still)
you have a long way to go before you are a truely learned samurai of the forum

[Einsteinium]

David, for the same amount of reaction time the yield will be lower with less concentrated reagents as the reaction speed is proportional to the concentration but, if you let the reaction proceed up to the equilibrium, you should get the same yield of AP using either 3%, 30% or 50% H2O2. As Anthony's said, more water won't interfere with the yield as the equilibrium constant is independant of the dilution factor (as long as all components are equally diluted).

[jfk]

Well im sorry if my questions offended you, i did do a search on ANNM on google but it came up with only information on APAN and ANFO, I also asked a few of my chemistry lecturers if my calculations were correct on the hydrogen peroxide concentration thing. thanks for your answers, however caustic they were they were also quite helpful. And I do know a decent ammount of chemistry, but its not like im a qualified explosive technition or anything.

i figured you wouldnt mind questions like this in the watercooler section.

as for the RDX i used meglos method, i detonated it with a booster of APAN, but im not sure if it was a full detonation. im currently securing more nitric to further my research on RDX.

I just found something quite interesting on the subject of RDX:

How might I be exposed to RDX?

Breathing dust with RDX in it.
Getting RDX on their skin.
Drinking contaminated water or touching contaminated soil near factories that produce RDX.

How can RDX affect my health?

RDX can cause seizures (a problem of the nervous system) in humans and animals when large amounts are inhaled or eaten. The effects of long-term (365 days or longer), low-level exposure on the nervous system are not known. Nausea and vomiting have also been seen. No other significant health effects have been seen in humans.

Rats and mice that ate RDX for 3 months or more had decreased body weights and slight liver and kidney damage.

It is not known whether RDX causes birth defects in humans; it did not cause birth defects in rabbits, but it did result in smaller offspring in rats. It is not known whether RDX affects reproduction in people.

How likely is RDX to cause cancer?

The EPA has determined hat RDX is a possible human carcinogen.

In one study, RDX caused liver tumors in mice that were exposed to it in the food. However, carcinogenic effects were not noted in rat studies and no human data are available.

Is there a medical test to show whether I've been exposed to RDX?

Medical tests are available that can measure RDX levels in your blood or urine. However, these tests can only be used if you have come in contact with RDX in the last few days. These tests can determine if you have been exposed to RDX, but they cannot be used to determine how much RDX entered your body.

These tests aren’t available at most doctors’ offices, but can be done at special laboratories that have the right equipment. However, they cannot be used to determine long-term health effects from RDX.

The usual immediate health effects (seizures, muscle twitching, or vomiting) from very high exposures would probably occur before you had the blood or urine test.

Has the federal government made recommendations to protect human health?

The Department of Transportation (DOT) has many regulations on the transportation of explosives.

The EPA recommends a drinking water guideline of 2 micrograms (µg) RDX per liter for lifetime exposure for adults.

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has recommended an exposure limit of 1.5 milligrams RDX per cubic meter of air (1.5 mg/m3) for a 10-hour workday, 40-hour workweek.

The NIOSH short-term exposure limit, which is the highest level of RDX that they recommend workers be exposed to for 15 minutes, is 3 mg/m3.

The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) also recommends an exposure limit of 1.5 mg/m3 in workplace air for an 8-hour workday, 40-hour workweek.

[zaibatsu]

I can't believe you made RDX if you had to use a booster and STILL it didn't fully detonate. RDX is often used in caps with less than 1g of primary and always fully detonates. I'd suggest you don't waste your chems till you learn more. Search Rogue Sci for information about ANNM.

[Monkey_Poo69]

going back to the h2o2 measurement thing...

3% 300ml
6% 150ml
9% 100ml
12% 75ml
15% 60ml
18% 50ml
21% 42.8ml
24% 37.5ml
27% 33ml
30% 30ml
35% 25.7ml

this should be helpful even though you have your answer which is 10ml
____________


here's some more... (I know posting this looks stupid but someone did ask a question about this some Im just taking it a little bit further so if anyone needs to know the measurements quickly,they can look at this)

27%= 33ml
28%- 32ml
29%-31ml
30%- 30ml
31%- 29ml
32%- 28ml
33%- 27ml
34%-26ml
35%- 25ml
36%- 24ml
37%- 23ml
38%-22ml
39%- 21ml
40%- 20ml
41%- 19ml
42%- 18ml
43%- 17ml
44%- 16ml
45%- 15ml
46%- 14ml
47%- 13ml
48%- 12ml
49%- 11ml
50%- 10ml

I think this is right

[jfk]

Originally posted by zaibatsu
I can't believe you made RDX if you had to use a booster and STILL it didn't fully detonate. RDX is often used in caps with less than 1g of primary and always fully detonates. I'd suggest you don't waste your chems till you learn more. Search Rogue Sci for information about ANNM.
i did a search, and learned - i also said i wasnt sure about a full det, not having seen RDX go off entirely before i had no idea of what to expect. I've just finished making my recent batch and im going to set some test for it tommorow, since i know what to expect now ill see if it was or wasnt a false det.

thanks to monkey poo for that uber long table :)