calcium nitrate

[jin]

i was just thinking that maybe you could replace ammonium nitrate in some mixtures with calcium nitrate and have simalar power with more sensitivity,has anybody got any info on calcium nitrate mixtures and det power.

[Agent Blak]

The formual is Ca(NO3)2.
I would try to do a replacement reaction to make KNO3. Does any body know how strong of an oxidier it is?

------------------
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"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
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Agent Blak-------OUT!!

[jin]

i read somewhere it was used for landmoveing
when mixed with aluminium as a replacement for anfo.

[This message has been edited by jin (edited February 08, 2001).]

[Mr Cool]

Calcium nitrate can explode from shock. It's not allowde on planes I don't think, but I've never heard of it actually being used. Calcium ions are about the same in mass as potassium ions, but they're bivalent, so in theory it should be better than KNO3 because each ion can have double the oxidising power. I wonder why it isn't used?

[Anthony]

I should imagine that it is highly hygroscopic!

[atropine]

well its gone. I dont want to lose a valuable source of kno3 to "KeWl BoM3RZ" either.

[This message has been edited by atropine (edited February 10, 2001).]

[Anthony]

Please stop posting that link, you are running the risk of making it dry up due to abuse by kewl bomerz.

[blackadder]

Yeah, that's just about the only decent source of KN03 I have in England, so if you could edit that out, it would be greatly appreciated. Don't mean to sound harsh.

[Mr Cool]

What the f*ck are you all talking about? - Wait, I think I've realised. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smile.gif

[LEXX]

I'm RUssian and sorry for my english...

So, calcium nitrate are good oxider for powders (I don't try to use it in high explosives) because:
1)he can give more OXYGEN then Potassium nitrate or Natrium nitrate.
2)destruction beginning at 450-500 Celsium( Ca(NO3)2=Ca(NO2)2 + O2) and ending at 561 celsium (CaO + N2 + 1,5O2)
Potassium nitrate begin destruct at 400 Celsium(2KNO3=2KNO2 + O2) but final destruction quickly at 800-900 Cels (2KNO2=
K2O + N2 + 1,5O2)// So powder on calcium nitrate exploding more powerfull, enrgy
3500 and more KiloDjoules on Kilogramm(and this powder dont needs S (!))
But calcium nitrate have one BIG BAD PROPETY: he extremily takes water from the air!!! Ten minutes - ande powder on Ca(NO3)2 are usefull(too math water!)

[ALENGOSVIG1]

I havent attempted to use calcium nitrate in LE's but i do use it as a main filler in my dynamite and in many other compositions. I will try to detonate CNsoy this summer

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[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited September 22, 2001).]

[LEXX]

>>How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?
Sorry for my english, but i'm dont understand what you mean. Please more information on "simple" inglish!

[Alchemist]

Hello all,

NOTE, as Anthony pointed out it is VERY highly hygroscopic. If left out it turns liquid in just minutes! Dry in over or etc before use and do not let your compositions sit for any length of time.

P.S., it is VERY good for making many other Nitrates though. Copper, Barium,lead, etc..

An example is if ya had some Copper Sulfate and needed Copper Nitrate. Just mix a solution of Copper Sulfate and Calcium Nitrate! You then have a mixture of Calcium Sulfate that is insoluble in water. So all ya have to do is filter and let the Copper Nitrate crystallize!

[LEXX]

....And if you mix at the room temperature Ca(NO3)2 with H2SO4(concentrate) you will get concentrate HNO3 and CaSO4 (he insolube in water and acid). Filtering CaSO4 and you have clean and concentrate nintritic acid.

[deezs]

Have you tried this reaction? I think it must be very violent.

[Anthony]

LEXX, "How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?" Is ALENGOSVIG1's signiture (it's at the end of all his posts) and isn't part of his message.

Mixing calcium nitrate with H2SO4 produces HNO3 in the same way that mixing H2SO4 and other metal nitrates (e.g KNO3, NaNO3 NH4NO3) does. Except that there shouldn't be any need to distil the acid to remove the other products, as the only other product is calcium sulphate and can be filtered out. Although the calcium nitrate wuld have to be very dry to avoid watering down your HNO3.

[kingspaz]

this has got me thinking now...that would be a very simple and easy way to make nitric acid of a useful purity. i'm sure there are other metal nitrates that have insoluble sulfates that could be used in place of Ca(NO3)2. does anybody know what they are?

[This message has been edited by kingspaz (edited July 03, 2001).]

[Alchemist]

Hello again,

Barium Nitrate, Lead Nitrate, Strontium Nitrate, and probably a several more!

[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited July 04, 2001).]

[LEXX]

For Deez: yes, i try and sucsessful. This method dont need distillation and high temperature. So, i'm use this method for make nitritic acid.
For Anthony: Have you try to distyilate Nitritic acid? I'm try and dont want did it again...
P.S.: thanks for description Signature :-)))

[the freshmaker]

I have some barium sulfate. Could I turn it into barium nitrate if I mix it with Calcium nitrate? Is barium nitrate slouble in water? If not how can I seperate the two salts?

[Anthony]

Not yet LEXX but I shall when I have time.

[wantsomfet]

What do you use to filter the CaSO4 from the HNO3? Glass filterpaper & sucking flask?

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[Dhzugasvili]

How do I make calcium nitrate? calcium hydroxide and nitric acid? Then, calcium nitrate and h2s04 when distilled WITHOUT VACUUM will produce concentration of NA of 95% or above????????

[Dhzugasvili]

Sorry, no need to distill it right? what is the equation of this reaction, how much sulfuric and how much calcium nitrate? How is it mixed and there has been mention of violent reaction, does that happen?

[LEXX]

I'm use metods:
1)After mixing wait some time. Powder of CaSO4 are down and i replase some Nitr.A.
2)Mix Nitr.A. and CaSO4 filtering on the metal fuel filter 2-4 time. Some CaSO4 are deleting. Last parts of CaSO4 deleting metod 1.

[LEXX]

How to make Ca(NO3)2:
1)Ca(OH)2 + 2NH4NO3 = >170 Celsium,<210 Cels = Ca(NO3)2 + 2NH3(up,smell extremal) + 2H2O(up) - i don't shure, but reactions are going(slowly reaction,high temperature needs more then hour)
2)I'm by Ca(NO3)2 in shop like minerale for garden (needs Cleaning from ballasts).
Max Concentration of HNO3 i don't know - try by yourself research.
to Dhzuasvili: Proportions (mass)
for H2SO4 - 1,81 g/cm3 - 100 ml
wee needs Ca(NO3)2 - 277 g.

[the_wingman]

calcium nitrate is available as a fertilizer in garden centers. I get mine from a farmer who has loads of 50 kilo bags.
How do you dry your Ca(NO3)2? in the oven?...
and what kind of filter do you use?

by the way.. are you able to make KNO3 from CN and potassium sulfate. I tried a few times but the K2SO4 didn't dissolve well and bubbled strangly each time when I stirred.

[kingspaz]

if you can't buy calcium nitrate would it be possible to make it from chalk (calcium carbonate) by neatralising sulphuric acid to yield calcium sulphate. this could be reacted with ammonium nitrate to make calcium nitrate. the only problem with this i can see is that calcium sulphate may not dissolve in boiling water.

[LEXX]

Sorry for my bag english!
Filtering Ca(NO3)2 from the ballasts:
Basslast - is a water resistanse component. It is like fat. Usialy i warm Ca(NO3)2 to 150-180 Celsium and this ballast are destructs (mix are makes floude). Products of destractions are insolube in water; then Ca(NO3)2 are solube thery good. So, filter water of destraction products and delete water with high temperature(more then 70 C because can create Ca(NO3)2*4H2O.)
I don think what reaction Ca(NO3)2 + KSO4 =
CaSO4 + KNO3 are going. But i try ...

[Alchemist]

Hello gang,

Here are a few more methods of making NITRIC ACID and Sulfuric P.S.,I have NOT tried these!

This is for H2SO4

The water solubilities of calcium oxalate ("practically insoluble") and calcium sulfate (0.2g/100 g) in the Merck Index. What this means is that the calcium ion has a much stronger affinity for oxalate than for sulfate, and so the sulfate ions (along with the H+ from the oxalic acid) can be removed by washing with water. All that then remains is to evaporate the water, and you will have sulfuric acid "of the highest degree of purity."


Here is another one for HNO3

The reaction

AgNO3(aq) + HCl(aq) ® HNO3(aq) + AgCl(s)

This is not an acid-base reaction but rather is possible because of solubilities: to wit, silver chloride is insoluble in water. Any combination which will produce silver chloride will tend to occur, especially if it can leave something soluble (like a solution of H+ and NO3-) behind!

And a third for HNO3

Presumably the same trick would work using calcium nitrate ("very soluble in water") and oxalic acid.

[the_wingman]

Does sb know how many moles of water one mole of Ca(NO3)2 normally contains? Could it be Ca(NO3)2.2H2O? My CN fertilizer is coated with wax so I think it has no or only a little of water in it.

[PHILOU Zrealone]

CaSO4 + NH4NO3 will not work since CaSO4 is fairly unsoluble and that the way of a reaction is ruled by the Le Chateliers laws: the precipitation way is favorised; thus
Ca(NO3)2 + (NH4)2SO4---> 2NH4NO3 + CaSO4(s)
Not the contrary.

Ca(NO3)2 is extremely hygroscopic much more than AN.

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[simply RED]

I'll try the process tomorrow(H2SO4 and calcium nitrate) if i find the Ca(NO3)2 in the garden shop. I'll post the resaults!

[simply RED]

I tried the process:
Ca(NO3)2 + H2SO4= CaSO4 + 2HNO3
I bought the Ca(NO3)2 from a garden shop. It was prilled and coated, so I had to crush it. I mixed the crushed calcium nitrate with H2SO4 in proportion: 35-50grams H2SO4, 17 grams Ca(NO3)2 and added some drops 60%HNO3. This was calculated to give nitrir mix after the reaction is complete. The mix was heated to 100 degrees on water bath for 3 minutes and then the acid was decant.
I made nitrocellulose with the acid. It was good, totally colided from acetone.
The acid will be extremely good for NG, since it don't need super concentrated.

[the_wingman]

Simply RED, what's written on the bag of your CN fertilizer? Pure CN contains 17% N. Are you sure that the CN is dry? I've got some CN fertilizer too, but I think it contains a little water. I heated it in a test tube. It melted, bubbled and became solid again. It was coated and prilled like yours.
Furthermore it contains 1.5% N from NH4 which means it either has got AN or ammonium sulfate in it.

[nbk2000]

I did a search on google for calcium nitrate and on several sites it said that a COMMON IMPURITY IS AMMONIUM NITRATE, AT AROUND 10-15% (BY WEIGHT).

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[simply RED]

Mine Ca nitrate was almost pure. Maybe 3-4 % NH4NO3. It left lots of solid CaSO4 precipitate which indicates the enough purity to make HNO3 for nitrating alcohols.

[nbk2000]

To anyone who cares to give it a try:
Take a saturated solution of calcium nitrate ($9 US for 50 pounds), then add a saturated solution of sodium bicarbonate (Baking soda). When the calcium carbonate sludge has settled, pour off the clear liquid through a filter and boil till a crystal layer forms on top of the liquid.

Set aside to cool, poke hole in crystal layer, and pour off the liquid. What remains is 98+% pure sodium nitrate crystals.

Substitute a potassium salt for potassium nitrate. I know you can buy potassium chloride as a sodium-free water softener for $10 US (50 pounds). But how you seperate the soluble calcium chloride I leave to you to discover.

(PS. I know this is posted in 2 places. That's my perogative. NBK2000)



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[nbk2000]

I've seen teflon non-stick baking sheets in the grocery store (near the cake mix) and they have miniscule little holes all through them, kinda like acid proof filters. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

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[Einstein]

This post had nothing to do with the subject of the thread, therefore the member who posted it has had his lame presence removed.

Have a nice day. :D

<small>[ August 11, 2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[kingspaz]

einstein, the water is represented by (aq). is stands for aqueous solution. so basically you will get a solution of HNO3 of no more than 40% (the greatest concentration HCl can be).

edit: what the hells this gotta do with Ca(NO3)2?!

<small>[ August 10, 2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[spydamonkee]

i was wondering if this Calcium Nitrate is the same thing as the "Calcium Amonium Nitrate 27-0-0-0" that i recently aquired
as someone said common impurity is NH4NO3, stuffed if i know why it has 27-0-0-0 written on the bag???... i have been told that this CAN 'WILL' detonate as CANFO you just gotta get the desiel to soak thru the calicium layer somehow.

i got a kg of it disolved in water now and am about to boil the solution after seperating it from the Ca so i should get 90%+ NH4NO3 i hope... bring on the big anfo or apan charge :D

BTW i got 44KG of CAN in total as i wasted 5kg on a failed anfo charge and 1 kg is in a purifying stage.

[Boob Raider]

And for those in Canada ..... what nitrates can be purchased and what trade names without being looked upon as a shady character ? I need Conc. HNO3 for Aqua Regia. The Ca(NO3)2 + H2SO4 seems like a good method so I need a nitrate.

[spydamonkee]

well out of that 1 kg CAN prills i disolved in water then heated to make activated an i ended up getting about 400 - 500 grams or so of calcium sludge and i heated the an/water solution too much and got lots of white smoke and a frying pan filled with melted AN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> (last time i use direct heat :D )
well i ended up getting 300 grams pure AN, i think i woulda got 400 or more if i hadnt heated it so much as alot boiled off and i ended up with a coating of fine AN powder all around my kitchen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[aster]

i am trying to make AN from Ammonium sulfate and Calcium nitrate, by make the solution of both, the mix them, in stoichiometric balance of course, immediately the CASO4 formed and precipitated, my question is this procedure will produce AN in the solution or the AN that formed will be entrap too in the sludge formed of the CASO4?

[Kriegsminister]

spydamonkee: No, the fertilizer you bought is chalk AN. It's a mixture of around 80% AN and 20% chalk. As far as I know it does not contain any calcium nitrate, but calcium carbonate (chalk).

I also use this fertilizer (here it is labeled "Kalkammonsalpeter") to purifie AN from it. I know the problems you experienced while purifying the AN. I was also wondering why I got such a small amount of AN the first time I tried it until I discovered that lots of it coated the whole kitchen.

I dissolve the fertilizer in water (1kg/1l) and let the chalk sink to the bottom (takes about 12-24 hours) and then drain off the clear solution and filter this again. This solution is boiled (outside) until about 1/8 of the original amount remains (solubility of AN in water is: 1183 g/l at 20°C, 8710 g/l at 100°C). If you let the solution cool down you will get a sticky mass of wet AN. To get the AN completely dry I blow hot air at it with a fan heater.

Boiling off all the water is a bad idea because the hotplate generates to much heat and the AN will decompose (smells awful).

[Anthony]

I have noticed that when boiling down a NH4NO3 solution, it does not pass through the solid phase. It turns from boiling solution immediately to molten (decomposing) AN, so it needs careful watching in the final stages.

To test the solution, I dip a stirring impliment into it, and allow it to cool. If the solution is ready, the drop will solidfy. The solution can then be removed from the heat source. Keep it moving periodically whilst it cools, otherwise it will fuse into one solid mass.

I wonder if this is really necessary though, if the chalk content is only 20%, it might be usuable as-is for AN explosives.

Also, capillary seperation is an easy method to seperate the dissolved AN from the chalk.

[megalomania]

aster, if you have any worries about any ammonium nitrate in your precipitate of calcium sulfate you should wash it a few times with warm water after you have removed the rest of the solution (decant the solution and filter to collect the sludge). Ammonium nitrate is quite soluable and very little should be in the sludge anyway.

[stanfield]

Could someone post the equation of calcium nitrate + sulfuric acid =&gt; nitric acid + certainly other things... it sounds interresting ! :)

thanx.

[aster]

i think the reaction should be H2SO4+Ca(NO3)2=2HNO3+CaSO4, the stoichiometric balance can be calculate from weight percentage using periodic table of the elements

[stanfield]

ofcourse, all I needed was this equation... thanx aster !

so, if I well understood, I just need to mix these two components and it produces nitric acid without distillation ? (only filtration to remove the CaSO4). If this is true, this could give lot of nitric acid in one time...

thanx !

[nbk2000]

This has already been discussed before, but I'll repeat it:

Calcium sulfate is soluble in highly concentrated acids, thus you can't filter it out. You'd have to either distill off the acid, or use DCM extraction, or use as-is.

[stanfield]

yes, I forgot, sorry...

[kingspaz]

can be a useful method for synthesis of dilute nitric acid though for preparation of urea nitrate.

[Anthony]

Even if solubility wasn't an issue, the liquid HNO3 would still be held in the mass of calcium sulphate crystals. It would be like trying to pour water out of a sponge. Vacuum seperation might work, but then that's not much complex than distillation.

[stanfield]

yeah, distillation is the easiest way...
I'll try to buy some calcium nitrate, experimentate and post results here.

[Guerilla]

I will soon try that too, when I'll receive my distillation apparatus. The Bag of 25kg Calcium nitrate from the local hardware store costed about 16€ IIRC and it's prilled. Remember to crush them into a form of very fine powder or dissolve them with water, otherwise CaSO4 forming on the prills will make them passive.. But this has been discussed earlier, so that's all..

<small>[ January 17, 2003, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: Guerilla ]</small>

[stanfield]

hehehehe, I just got a 25 kg bag for 8,50€ ! :) muhahahahaha !