Dinitrate of Hexamine - Archive File

[megalomania]

Detonator
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Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 25, 2001 02:47 AM
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When you treat hexamine with less than 70% NA you will have dinitrate of Hexamine !
Could anyone post more info about this explosive?




Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 26, 2001 01:57 AM
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What's up? no one has info about it?
Common guys.
BTW NA less than 70% would it work?
Do you have to maintain the ratio that is used in making RDX and the heat?



10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 442
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 26, 2001 06:19 PM
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The procedure for making hexamine dinitrate is in KIPE 2. Theres a link to it in the some of the posts by wantsomfet. I think it's catfood.tsx.org.
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited February 26, 2001).]



Detonator
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Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 28, 2001 01:40 AM
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Any information about this HE??????????????



simply RED
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Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 28, 2001 08:49 AM
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I really don't know anything about this.
I'm also very interested.


shady mutha
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Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 28, 2001 10:14 PM
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Hexamethylenetetramine dinitrate(hexamine dinitrate)itself is of no importance as an explosive.However,it plays a considerable part in the production of cyclonite in one of the recipes.Hexamine dinitrate is prepared from hexamine by treating it with 50-70% nitric acid,at a temperature not above-15.c.
Foss,Hirst,Jones,Springall,A.T Thomas and T.Urbanski have established that boiling an aqueous solution of hexamine dinitate causes the substance to transform into methylhexamethylene mononitrate.
Observations also made by Foss showed that a certain amount of the nitrate is produced during prolonged storage of hexamine dinitrate owing to partial decomposition followed by the reduction of formaldehyde to a methyl radical.
Ethylenediamine dinitrate
This substance was suggested as a component of explosive materials by Stahler.It was indroduced in Germany during World War 2,where it was used as an ingredient of fusible mixtures containing ammonium nitrate under the name PH-Salz.The drawback of ethylenediamine dinitrate lies in its hygroscopicity.
Le Roux reports that ethylenedinitrate forms an eutectic with ammonium nitrate 50/50,the fusion temperature of which is above 100.c.He suggested using a mixture composed of 50% of ammonium nitrate and 50% ethylenediamine dinitrate instead of amatol 50/50.
Ethylenediamine dinitrate is a chemically stable compound.Its explosive strength is greater than that of TNT or picric acid,but slightly lower than tetryl.The density of ethylenediamine dinitrate pelleted under pressure of 1500kg/cm2 was 1.49g/cm3 according to Kast its expansion in the lead block amounts to 345 cm3.The rate of detonation can reach 6800 m/sec(30 mm dia.cardboard tube)


Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 132
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted March 01, 2001 01:51 AM
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Shady we need more info on Hexamine dinitrate as an explosive, if you have any please post it.
Because it's much easier to be made
I didn't get you what is Ethylenediamine dinitrate ?


Microtek
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Posts: 196
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 02, 2001 09:26 AM
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What I would like to see is more info on how to go from hexamine dinitrate to RDX. Could it perhaps be done with AN/H2SO4 mix without distillation? Now that would be interesting.


Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 06, 2001 05:45 AM
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quote:
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Secondly with HNO3 less than 70% you only get the dinitrate of Hexamine (explosive salt when dry, more sensitive than ammonium nitrate but oxygen deficient).
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Because dinitrate of Hexamine is oxygen deficient could Ammonium Nitrate be added to level out this deficiency as it is a strong oxyzider.Has anyone ever tried this?
Any ideas on what the VOD would be?
Demolition


ezekiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 08, 2001 03:34 PM
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Sorry man but you can't just guess Vdet.
As for the hexaminedinitrate...
hexamine will decompose if lest for too long in the presence of strong acid.
Mainly into various nitrates, but i can't remember exactly what.
So the moral is....
keep temp low,
or time short.

[zamfe]

.. the thing is that i tried to detonate hmtadn with acetone peroxide and it doesn't work ..has anyone else tried this too ?

[webbsmurfen]

Originally posted by zamfe
.. the thing is that i tried to detonate hmtadn with acetone peroxide and it doesn't work ..has anyone else tried this too ?


No problems to detonate. But try to avoid AP, because AP is one of the most sensitive explosives I know, and this explosive have hurt so many people/pyrotechnics (also the experts) therefore most pyrotechnics avoid this explosive

perhaps there is pollution’s, therefore the explosive don’t detonate..

[rooster]

This explosive has been discuss greatly before, also capability of detonation.
Here is the link:

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241

[zamfe]

well first of all .. i've looked at what the others have to say about detonating hmdn .. with ap ..it doesn't work ..(i knew) , some say that they detonated it by surrounding the ap with hmdn ..in this case the hmdn doesn't detonate ,it's just that you can't find the remains (when you are using 3 g of ap.) and some other guy tells that he did detonate it with ng ...thanx a lot maybe i'll try detonate with photon torpedos :rolleyes:
to webbsmurfen : i don't think ap is sooo sensitive ..maybe if you have it in cristalline form ,i always have it as powder ,and a bit moistured ,so ther are no problems . ( NI3 --that's sensitive , Ag2C2..this too )
so my question stands: does anyone know a right detonator for hmdn ?
hasta luego

[static_firefly]

getting off topic but i had the idea that if you mix AP With a little MEKP shouldnt it lose much of its friction sensitivity as MEKP is oily?

[rooster]

Zamfe, that is entirely wrong. I have detonated 50grmas of HDN. That was with 5grms of AP though. Full detonation, although not too much damage to the target (tree). You would find residue from 50grams of HDN.

AP powder is also the crystalline form, just smaller crystals.

I've used 1gram of AP and 0,5grams of RDX as a booster for HDN also. Some complete and some incomplete dets.

[Mr Cool]

"some other guy tells that he did detonate it with ng ...thanx a lot maybe i'll try detonate with photon torpedos"

Go for it, but I think you'll find that NG is a lot easier to make than a photon torpedo, fool. Also, it's a bit impolite to refer to a person as "some guy." Have the respect to use his name, huh?

[webbsmurfen]

zamfe: That’s correct, Nitrogen Triiodide and silver acetylide is more sensitive, but normally you don’t mix this type of explosive with other. (If you don’t want to die quickly ). more common is that you mix AP with other explosives.

I’m warning you of using AP, because here in Sweden many pyrotechnics have been hurt when using AP

Well 999 times the explosive is stable, if you drop the explosive (film canister with AP) on the floor, but the 1000 time you drop it on the floor the explosive detonate. Never trust AP.

NOTE: this is my experience with AP.

Sorry about my bad english...

[zamfe]

yo , hi freaks .
thank's for concern webbsmurfen..
rooster : ok ,if you did it ..i tried also ,but i always found the hdn unharmed ..that's why i asked ..
mr. cool : i'm really sorry if i hurt you feelings ,i'll try too add names when i'm speaking of someone ..I'M not here to argue with you about
the weather ,i just want to exchange some ideeas .( by the way : here's how to make photon torpedos:
take 1g of m&m's mix it CAREFULLY with 20 ml of 295 K fanta
filter and wash with water than melt the powder and let it dry for 10 days
and you got you own photon totpedeo ..
..see you mr cool and try to realax a bit ,were just collegs here ..

[Mr Cool]

"see you mr cool"

I doubt it, you're banned, bitch! :D

Actually, hmmm.... no, I'll be nice. You are not banned, unless NBK is in a bad mood and walks round here looking for a victim...

But what's wrong with using NG to detonate HDN? It's a perfectly good way to do it, and you talk about it as if it was the most stupid idea you'd ever heard!

[zamfe]

But what's wrong with using NG to detonate HDN?
why ?because the goal is use safe materials ..
you can bann me all the time you want ...you're the king ...it's the most easy way to deal with it if you're running out of words ..but you didn't do it because of the others who are also watching the show ....be cool mr.

[mongo blongo]

If the goal was to use "safe" materials then why did you try to use acetone peroxide? NG is much more stable than AP. NG is not as unstable as it is hyped up to be. Sure it is classed unstable for a secondary explosive but it is quite safe.
Anyway I think what you need is a base charge in your detonator like RDX or TNP or something. HDN is very hydroscopic so it would also be a good idea to use just after it has been dried. I have never personally tried detonating HDN but i do know it is quite insensitive so a powerful detonator is the way to go.

[kingspaz]

zamfe, you seem to have an attidude problem. don't come here causing trouble. you've not been here anytime so expect to recieve a little shit for coming up with poorly constructed posts. nobody is running out of words but you zamfe. now me on the other hand, i'm not as kind as mr c and i WILL ban you if i get any more shit talk. its not the easiest way to deal with you but its the most effective. i don't mind arguing for the rest of your life but why should i bother? you are insignificant. you know everything though so why are you here? you know far more than everybody else on this forum. its obvious from your posting style that you are just bursting with knowledge on improvised explosives and have vast experience. now, ignorant pig, get some manners and respect for people who've earnt it.

[Mr Cool]

Haha! You ignorant fool...

I haven't run out of words, but no more are needed to describe you :).
And what's the point in saying more, if you're not here to provide any witty retort?