megalomania
May 10th, 2003, 09:43 PM
rjche
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-20-2001 02:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
members have tried to make ethylene glycol di nitrate but have a problem getting the ethylene glycol. Getting it from antifreeze is not easy.
It would appear that propylene glycol di nitrate ought be as easily nitrated, and that is obtainable rather pure from camper outlets where it is used to fill the camper's pipes during freezing weather. To do that it must be non-toxic, hence fairly pure.
Anyone have data on nitrating propylene glycol, or its characteristics as an expl?
Also saw a post on a survival forum about maiing bio diesel fuel from vegtable oil. It said this:
"Vegetable oil (either virgin oil from sunflowers or other vegies OR waste oil from fast food fryers) is reacted with a catalyst composed of sodium hydroxide disolved into methanol. The methhydroxide is stirred vigorously into the vegi oil and chemical reaction called transesterfication breaks the long hydrocarbon bonds resulting in high purity diesel and glycerin. The glycerin is heavier and settles to the bottom of the mizxing tank."
Anyone familiar with this process for making glycerine?
ezekiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-08-2001 03:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not big on the soap industry but I think your recipe is for maknig glycerine salts - precursors for soap.
You could extract them out, but then again you could buy a vat of the shit for tuppence.
I assume you don't realise that propylene glycol is glycerin. I may be underestimating you. Sorry.
So basically you are asknig, in different words, the most asked chemistry question in the world:
"How do I make nitro glycerin?"
ever heard of propylene 1,2,3 nitrate? That is nitro glycerin.
------------------
Ezekiel
'Things bad begun make strong themselves by ill'
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-08-2001 08:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ethelyne glycol can be found as a chemical used to test gas lines. I have many bottles of this. It was dirt cheap. If you email me a address or P.O Box i could mail you 100 ml or so. You just gotta pay the postage.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-15-2001 07:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Propane diol exist in two form:
1,2-propandiol and 1,3-propanediol
CH3-CHOH-CH2OH and CH2OH-CH2-CH2OH.
Use the same process and same care as for nitroglycerin or nitroglycol.
The nitrated product are about the same strenght and VOD as Nitrolycerin and nitroglycol.They are more fluid (less viscous), more volatile and more hydrophobic than nitroglycerine.
The only difference is that the 1,2 compound is as impact sensitive as NG but the 1,3 is less sensitive....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
rjche
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-15-2001 02:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well thought you had made my day there but when I went to check Hndbk of physics it lists glycerine as c3 h8 o3 or
1,2,3 propanetriol.
propylene Glycol is listed as listed as
1,2, propanediol. or c3 h8 02
However that's close enough to probably nitrate ok, same say as glycerine.
The lack of on oxygen might not matter for NG is O rich, and balance would probably be achieved for the o2 glycol.
Glycerine costs about $25 per gallon in agriculture stores as a rub for horses.
Propylene glycol is a non poisonous antifreeze for use in cars (has additives) and in camper water pipes in winter (probably pure to keep it non toxic to the drinking water systems. I think it comes at about 50% strength though and would have to be boiled to concentrate it.
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-17-2001 05:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PGDN is not as shock sensitive as NG and nor as EGDN. The height of the fall of 2kg hammer is about 90-100cm, what is something between picric acid and TNT. The manipulation safety is high. I also thought that the sensitivity will be around EGDN because of similar structure, but the reality is different(and better). Actually I cannot compare, because I haven't made any other nitroesters, but I tried to ignite a small sample(~0.1g) by impact and failed. Literarure(Orlova - Chemistry and technology of brisant explosives, Urbanski - Chemistry & Technology of explosives) says the same - so it isn't only from my own head.
The nitro-esterification of PGDN(1,2-propanediol dinitrate) can be made the same way as NG, but the safety and yield is low. Fortunately Urbanski write a few rows about this reaction, I have tried it and can say it is very simple.
The temperature should remain below 10°C and the nitration mixture should be NA-rich: 47.5% of HNO3, 45.5% H2SO4 and 7% water. When 10% excess of nitrating mixture is used, min. 90% yield is obtained. I have made it about 3 times and used magnetic stiring and have had 93% yield. Good stiring is necessary, as the methyl(CH3-) group oxidises readily when temperature rises above 20°C, so you MUST stir very thoroughly and MUST NOT let the temperature rise even locally. The product is very stable if washed sufficiently, but decomposes if remaining acid is present. I recommend to wash at least 10 times(first separate it from the acids in a separatory funnel, then wash 2x with water, then 3-4x with 5% solution of Na2CO3 and then several times with fresh water). Then I add 0.5% diphenylamine as a stabilisator. The colour can turn a bit yellowish, but MUST NOT turn blue(remaining acid). If the colour is blue, pour it out. The nitroester is much more volatile than NG, but not so volatile as EGDN. You should work in a digester or in a good-ventilated room, if you want to prevent slight head-ache.
[This message has been edited by Kroways (edited April 18, 2001).]
shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-17-2001 07:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kroways Nice photos on your website. Do you have a license, or do you sneak around like us? Is that first photo a pic. of a lead block or something harder?
[This message has been edited by shooter2 (edited April 17, 2001).]
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-18-2001 09:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shooter: A lead block. But the explosive in a film can was weak. I tried also a mixture of 10% PETN, 10% RDX, 30% PGDN + CP-2 gelatine, 10% BaSO4 and 40% NH4NO3 and that performed MUCH MUCH better. Actually I don't have any licence and I'm now sneaking only on a theoretical level.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-18-2001 04:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what language is your page written in? and do you have a translation? what is that pager like device there? a remote detonator?
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-18-2001 05:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PYRO500> The page is written in Czech. Unfortunately i don't have English version, yet, though I plan it.
The "pager like device" is a detonator(now I don't know if the word is right - not included in web dictionary). It is a thyristor-switched device which I have made from old Canon camera flash-addon. It is powered by 4 small 1.2V accumulators(the same as you put in a walkman) and transforms it first to 4.8V AC(high frequency - you can hear it) and then to cca 330V AC which is then transformed to DC and a capacitor is loaded. When you press the red button, the P-N boarder(?) opens and you get about 10-100A current through the whole wiring, depended on the resistance. The thyristor is used because of high currents. I tried several simple switches but have fried them:]
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-20-2001 02:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
members have tried to make ethylene glycol di nitrate but have a problem getting the ethylene glycol. Getting it from antifreeze is not easy.
It would appear that propylene glycol di nitrate ought be as easily nitrated, and that is obtainable rather pure from camper outlets where it is used to fill the camper's pipes during freezing weather. To do that it must be non-toxic, hence fairly pure.
Anyone have data on nitrating propylene glycol, or its characteristics as an expl?
Also saw a post on a survival forum about maiing bio diesel fuel from vegtable oil. It said this:
"Vegetable oil (either virgin oil from sunflowers or other vegies OR waste oil from fast food fryers) is reacted with a catalyst composed of sodium hydroxide disolved into methanol. The methhydroxide is stirred vigorously into the vegi oil and chemical reaction called transesterfication breaks the long hydrocarbon bonds resulting in high purity diesel and glycerin. The glycerin is heavier and settles to the bottom of the mizxing tank."
Anyone familiar with this process for making glycerine?
ezekiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-08-2001 03:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not big on the soap industry but I think your recipe is for maknig glycerine salts - precursors for soap.
You could extract them out, but then again you could buy a vat of the shit for tuppence.
I assume you don't realise that propylene glycol is glycerin. I may be underestimating you. Sorry.
So basically you are asknig, in different words, the most asked chemistry question in the world:
"How do I make nitro glycerin?"
ever heard of propylene 1,2,3 nitrate? That is nitro glycerin.
------------------
Ezekiel
'Things bad begun make strong themselves by ill'
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-08-2001 08:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ethelyne glycol can be found as a chemical used to test gas lines. I have many bottles of this. It was dirt cheap. If you email me a address or P.O Box i could mail you 100 ml or so. You just gotta pay the postage.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-15-2001 07:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Propane diol exist in two form:
1,2-propandiol and 1,3-propanediol
CH3-CHOH-CH2OH and CH2OH-CH2-CH2OH.
Use the same process and same care as for nitroglycerin or nitroglycol.
The nitrated product are about the same strenght and VOD as Nitrolycerin and nitroglycol.They are more fluid (less viscous), more volatile and more hydrophobic than nitroglycerine.
The only difference is that the 1,2 compound is as impact sensitive as NG but the 1,3 is less sensitive....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
rjche
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-15-2001 02:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well thought you had made my day there but when I went to check Hndbk of physics it lists glycerine as c3 h8 o3 or
1,2,3 propanetriol.
propylene Glycol is listed as listed as
1,2, propanediol. or c3 h8 02
However that's close enough to probably nitrate ok, same say as glycerine.
The lack of on oxygen might not matter for NG is O rich, and balance would probably be achieved for the o2 glycol.
Glycerine costs about $25 per gallon in agriculture stores as a rub for horses.
Propylene glycol is a non poisonous antifreeze for use in cars (has additives) and in camper water pipes in winter (probably pure to keep it non toxic to the drinking water systems. I think it comes at about 50% strength though and would have to be boiled to concentrate it.
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-17-2001 05:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PGDN is not as shock sensitive as NG and nor as EGDN. The height of the fall of 2kg hammer is about 90-100cm, what is something between picric acid and TNT. The manipulation safety is high. I also thought that the sensitivity will be around EGDN because of similar structure, but the reality is different(and better). Actually I cannot compare, because I haven't made any other nitroesters, but I tried to ignite a small sample(~0.1g) by impact and failed. Literarure(Orlova - Chemistry and technology of brisant explosives, Urbanski - Chemistry & Technology of explosives) says the same - so it isn't only from my own head.
The nitro-esterification of PGDN(1,2-propanediol dinitrate) can be made the same way as NG, but the safety and yield is low. Fortunately Urbanski write a few rows about this reaction, I have tried it and can say it is very simple.
The temperature should remain below 10°C and the nitration mixture should be NA-rich: 47.5% of HNO3, 45.5% H2SO4 and 7% water. When 10% excess of nitrating mixture is used, min. 90% yield is obtained. I have made it about 3 times and used magnetic stiring and have had 93% yield. Good stiring is necessary, as the methyl(CH3-) group oxidises readily when temperature rises above 20°C, so you MUST stir very thoroughly and MUST NOT let the temperature rise even locally. The product is very stable if washed sufficiently, but decomposes if remaining acid is present. I recommend to wash at least 10 times(first separate it from the acids in a separatory funnel, then wash 2x with water, then 3-4x with 5% solution of Na2CO3 and then several times with fresh water). Then I add 0.5% diphenylamine as a stabilisator. The colour can turn a bit yellowish, but MUST NOT turn blue(remaining acid). If the colour is blue, pour it out. The nitroester is much more volatile than NG, but not so volatile as EGDN. You should work in a digester or in a good-ventilated room, if you want to prevent slight head-ache.
[This message has been edited by Kroways (edited April 18, 2001).]
shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-17-2001 07:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kroways Nice photos on your website. Do you have a license, or do you sneak around like us? Is that first photo a pic. of a lead block or something harder?
[This message has been edited by shooter2 (edited April 17, 2001).]
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-18-2001 09:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shooter: A lead block. But the explosive in a film can was weak. I tried also a mixture of 10% PETN, 10% RDX, 30% PGDN + CP-2 gelatine, 10% BaSO4 and 40% NH4NO3 and that performed MUCH MUCH better. Actually I don't have any licence and I'm now sneaking only on a theoretical level.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-18-2001 04:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what language is your page written in? and do you have a translation? what is that pager like device there? a remote detonator?
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-18-2001 05:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PYRO500> The page is written in Czech. Unfortunately i don't have English version, yet, though I plan it.
The "pager like device" is a detonator(now I don't know if the word is right - not included in web dictionary). It is a thyristor-switched device which I have made from old Canon camera flash-addon. It is powered by 4 small 1.2V accumulators(the same as you put in a walkman) and transforms it first to 4.8V AC(high frequency - you can hear it) and then to cca 330V AC which is then transformed to DC and a capacitor is loaded. When you press the red button, the P-N boarder(?) opens and you get about 10-100A current through the whole wiring, depended on the resistance. The thyristor is used because of high currents. I tried several simple switches but have fried them:]