megalomania
May 10th, 2003, 09:59 PM
steve smith
New Member
Posts: 1
From: torrance, ca, good ol us of a
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-20-2001 02:17 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone have any equipment, either homemade or professional that test the power of different mixes?? Am looking preferably for a home made piece of equipment, of low cost, multiple use, and of a somewhat accurate measurement of how much power a certain mix has. Mind you, i don't want to try 30-40 grams of the stuff, i wanna try measuring the power of 1lb devices against each other..
I have just gotten to a point that the crater, ear, noise reverberation, and the average size of microwave pieces lying around (or should i rather say strewn around) just isn't good enough anymore.
thnks to all comments, i will be watching...
hehe..
steve
PS, did that guy who said he was going to kaboom on an old farm shed w/ a 50 gallon drum do it yet? I haven't seen anyhting yet...
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-20-2001 03:02 AM
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If I were to test lets say 5g-10(maybe at the very most) charge I would get a 55gal drum, fill it with DiHydrogen MonoOxide lets say 52gal. I would then place my charge just below center of the DiHydrogen MonoOxide fill level. I would then detonate the charge. after the charge was detonated measure the amount of DiHydrogen MonoOxide that was displaced.
I call this methid the "DiHydrogen MonoOxide Displacement Method" it will measure the heaving force of the DiHydrogen MonoOxide. Depending on the explosives cut power it may split the drum.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
[This message has been edited by Agent Blak (edited April 20, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-20-2001 07:12 AM
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With a lb of explosive mix or 100g of it you would expect to be able a reusable device???
Such a quantity can make holes in thick plates of steel.
To give you an idea: Cl20 with 30g can go trough 21cm of steel plate when shaped; so I think 100g can go trough without shape!
What a F*** is monohydrogen dioxyde???I really think you meaned something else because this doesn't exist as a stable compound!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-20-2001 08:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean that 30 grams of Cl2O can penetrate 21 cm steel armour, when made into a shaped charge?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-20-2001 10:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes 30g that's (because density of hexaazahexanitriisowurtzitane or CL-20 is 2 ) a volume of 15ccm of the explosive so it is approximatively a cube of 3*3*3 ccm shaped charge; and it can go trough 7 plates of 1 inch steel (7 inch thus =21cm).
IMPRESSIVE NO?
Hard to build something that can withdraw such a power....especially 100g or more; comon tests are made on 10g or less.
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-20-2001 11:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He probably meant dihydrogen monoxide, water.
Philou: is that HNIW you're talking about? Have you ever made any, or are they figures that you've read?
-A-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 100
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-21-2001 01:45 AM
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Actually, 7 inches are 18.78 cm., a little less but important cm's.
Agent Blak, with 10 grams probably no problem, but wouldn't the pressure transmitted by the water rupture the drum?.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-21-2001 02:31 AM
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I think it would depend on the explosive some with a high cutting power might(PETN, RDX, etc.). it is just an Idea
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-21-2001 05:44 AM
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I made a test like that one time. I used only a 10 litre plastic bucket, but then, I only used ca. 5 cubic millimeters of pressed AP.
Thats approximately 0.005 grams! The bucket was split open and made a little jump.
I don't think you'd have too much luck in reusing a barrel in which you had placed a 10 gram charge, unless the barrel had a good capacity for deformation without rupturing.
Explosives in water are quite impressive.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-21-2001 02:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, water transmits the shock wave perfectly so It's like having the explosive in direct contact with the vessel. So even a small amount of exploive will rupture the vessel.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 02:16 PM
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I have a barrel i test my explosivies in. Its a 55 gal burried half way in the sandy ground on the beach next to the local river.
The half of the barrel which is above ground is surrounded by rocks.. Ive tested about 20-30 grams of Acetone peroxide in the barrel in a copped tube with no damage. The shrapnel did not even penetrate the sides of the barrel. Although all tests were done with no water present. If i were more organized i would have completely burried it and placed concrete in the ground. Surely that would survive blasts from weak explosives such as acetone peroxide.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited April 21, 2001).]
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-21-2001 05:42 PM
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30g of AP in any type of housing is going to do absolutly fuck all to 55 gal drum, wether the drum is full of water or not...
and philou, hexaazahexanitriisowurtzitane seriously?...you made that up right?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what i am trying to say. Unless you place the charge right next to the metal, then it WILL puncture a hole. 55 gal drums are meant to hold thigs that everything else cant. Its not thin, weak metal its quite thick and heavy.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-21-2001 08:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45 gallon drums aren't made of very thick steel at all, maybe 0.5mm. 30gm of AP is very capable of sending schrapnel straight though that.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 08:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes that is true but 55 gal drums are much more durable then its weaker brother the 45 gal drum. By burrying it it is given much more streangth also.
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-22-2001 05:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made several brisance-comparison tests on myself-cast lead blocks. The lead blocks were cast to a mold, which I made from concrete, poured between 2 big ice-cream pots. The weight of each is 8.8kg, upper diameter cca 12cm, lower about 13cm and height cca 8cm. You should use the same material for all blocks, it can be re-cast indeed. Then, a sample of cca 45g of explosive is put into an empty ~30ml film-box and is detonated. The volume of aperture is easily measured by weighing water you can pour in it. Simply weigh a beaker filled with water, pour the hole full and weigh again. The results I have obtained were from 25 to 52ml aperture. The strongest what I have tested(I made about 5 tests) was cast mixture of 60% tetryl, 32% picric acid and 8% of DNT. The density of cast mixture was 1.614g/cm^3. It was detonated using a homemade aluminum blasting cap containing 1g of wax-desensitised PETN and 300mg of lead azide.
YTS
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-22-2001 06:32 AM
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If a canadian gallon is the same as a usa gallon then the 45 gallon drum (uk) anthony was talking about and the 55 gallon drum are actually the same size as a i know a us gallon is smaller but i dont know about a canadian gallon ?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-22-2001 11:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dihydrogen Monoxide = H2O = Water.
Microtek, 5 mLs of AP would be more than 3 grams, and that's assuming loose powder. Even more pressed.
Mick, HNIW DOES exist. Links to the university website that synthed it were posted in the old forum. A websearch should find it, though I'm not sure about phils spelling.
Hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane is the proper spelling.
Here's a couple of links about it:
http://chemistry.miningco.com/science/chemistry/library/weekly/aa020899a.htm
and
http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/techtransfer/cradas/thiokol.htm
Here's a picture of what philou was refering to.
"Results of an early (1989) penetration performance test with small 30 gram shaped charges of relatively unrefined CL-20 (on left) and PBXN-5 (on right) showed that CL-20 penetrated 7 one-inch steel plates while
PBXN-5 penetrated only 5."
Also, before anyone gets all fired up about trying to synthesis this:
"We've refined the production process to the point that our customers are now paying around $400 a pound, which is a considerable reduction for the length of time we've been working it. I hope to quarter that cost and get it down to around $100 a pound."
This is the manufactures costs at industrial scale that you can never hope to match.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited April 22, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited April 22, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-22-2001 05:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UK gallons are larger than US gallons, so unless I am mistaken, the drums are exactly the same. I'm just used to calling them "45 gallon drums".
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-23-2001 01:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nbk2000: note I said 5 cubic millimeters, that is 0.005 mL and I had pressed it to about 1 g/cc.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-23-2001 03:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't even immagine something as powerful as Cl-20.....
------------------
DEAD BITCH NEVER SAYS 'NO'!
HAPPY BURNDAY SWEETHARD!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 07:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes that was what I was refering to, and sorry about the typo error, I was tired and also very much not to note that dihydrogen monoxyde was what was written and not monohydrogendioxyde..so of course it was water, H2O, or hemioxyde of oxygen!
That's a good explosive yes HNIW!
No I haven't synthetise it since it is not that easy and because I have much better ideas; right now I'm working with a group of Dutch guys on (amongst other things) DNU-like explosives (dinitrourea, keto-6RDX,...); I'm also quite interested in perchlorates/nitrates of polyamines(triaminopropanetriperchlorate,...), in linear polynitroaliphatics (1.2.3-trinitropropane,...), heterocyclic nitro derivatives (cyanurictrinitro compound,..)....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-24-2001 04:17 PM
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Stop showing off!
I was wondering: for 1,2-dinitroethane, for example, do you think you could bubble ethene through a cold nitrating mixture, and have an addition reaction? Like decolourising bromine water, but with the NO2 group being added instead of bromine atoms.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:47 AM
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Showing off???What do you, Mr Cool mean? You want me to shut up?
Anyway, yes practically it works: but I remind you that mixing a combustible with N2O4=panclastite thus quite dangerous process!!!Also, you have a lot of side reactions you are not wanting!
CH2=CH2 + O2N-NO2--> O2N-CH2-CH2-NO2 + ONO-CH2-CH2-NO2 + ONO-CH2-CH2-ONO + O2NO-CH2-CH2-NO2 + O2NO-CH2-CH2-ONO + O2NO-CH2-CH2-ONO2 + oxydations products (like aldehyds, carboxylic acids,CO2)+ polyethylenpolymers
In this a lot of interesting molecules but a mess to isolate; some of them are much more dangerous to handle than nitroaliphatics like nitrite esters and nitrate esters...you imagine the problem.
A better idea would be to use the Ter Meer reaction of LiNO2/NaNO2 or KNO2 with a halide(with a good solvant of those nitrites and with a preference for the LiNO2 more soluble in organic solvants).
Such a process was posted in the NG month ago to go from monochloracetic acid to nitromethane.
CH2Cl-CO2H + NaONO --> O2N-CH2-CO2H + NaCl
O2N-CH2-CO2H ---> O2N-CH3 + CO2 spontaneously!
So if I where you I would use to make the 1.2-dinitroethane:
1)1.2-dichloroethane (or the dibromo derivative) + silver,lithium,sodium or potassium nitrite + a good solvant of the nitrites!
2)2.3-dichlorobutandioique acid with sodium nitrite
HO2C-CHCl-CHCl-CO2H + 2NaONO ---> HO2C-CHNO2-CHNO2-CO2H + 2 NaCl
HO2C-CHNO2-CHNO2-CO2H ---> CH2NO2-CH2NO2 + 2CO2
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I wasn't telling you to shut up! It's just all those long complicated words you use that I don't understand! Well, never mind.
I was a bit worried about the ethene catching fire on contact with the acids, but that other method sounds good. I already knew about the one for CH3NO2.
Well, thanks for the info!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-26-2001 07:32 AM
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OK, but there is no secrets, the very language of explosive is chemistry...mostly all the names used in this field are chemical names sometimes cut, sometimes with a few letters of them....
CTAP: cyclo-triaceton peroxyde (1.2.4.5.7.8-hexaoxo,3.3.6.6.9.9-hexamethylcyclononane)
MMAN: monomethylamine nitrate
TNG: trinitrate of glycerol, nitroglycerine
TNT: 2.4.6-trinitrotoluene
HNIW: hexaazahexanitroisowurtzitane
...
So when speaking of unknown/unfrenquently used explosives, you have to give the chemical name; since only military explosives have short names!
Organic chemistry nomenclature is not that complicated... you can find it in all basic org. chem. books; it allows you to draw the picture of a molecule as if it was a map: general squeleton and then specific places of branches towards each other!
New Member
Posts: 1
From: torrance, ca, good ol us of a
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-20-2001 02:17 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone have any equipment, either homemade or professional that test the power of different mixes?? Am looking preferably for a home made piece of equipment, of low cost, multiple use, and of a somewhat accurate measurement of how much power a certain mix has. Mind you, i don't want to try 30-40 grams of the stuff, i wanna try measuring the power of 1lb devices against each other..
I have just gotten to a point that the crater, ear, noise reverberation, and the average size of microwave pieces lying around (or should i rather say strewn around) just isn't good enough anymore.
thnks to all comments, i will be watching...
hehe..
steve
PS, did that guy who said he was going to kaboom on an old farm shed w/ a 50 gallon drum do it yet? I haven't seen anyhting yet...
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-20-2001 03:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I were to test lets say 5g-10(maybe at the very most) charge I would get a 55gal drum, fill it with DiHydrogen MonoOxide lets say 52gal. I would then place my charge just below center of the DiHydrogen MonoOxide fill level. I would then detonate the charge. after the charge was detonated measure the amount of DiHydrogen MonoOxide that was displaced.
I call this methid the "DiHydrogen MonoOxide Displacement Method" it will measure the heaving force of the DiHydrogen MonoOxide. Depending on the explosives cut power it may split the drum.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
[This message has been edited by Agent Blak (edited April 20, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-20-2001 07:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With a lb of explosive mix or 100g of it you would expect to be able a reusable device???
Such a quantity can make holes in thick plates of steel.
To give you an idea: Cl20 with 30g can go trough 21cm of steel plate when shaped; so I think 100g can go trough without shape!
What a F*** is monohydrogen dioxyde???I really think you meaned something else because this doesn't exist as a stable compound!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-20-2001 08:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you mean that 30 grams of Cl2O can penetrate 21 cm steel armour, when made into a shaped charge?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-20-2001 10:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes 30g that's (because density of hexaazahexanitriisowurtzitane or CL-20 is 2 ) a volume of 15ccm of the explosive so it is approximatively a cube of 3*3*3 ccm shaped charge; and it can go trough 7 plates of 1 inch steel (7 inch thus =21cm).
IMPRESSIVE NO?
Hard to build something that can withdraw such a power....especially 100g or more; comon tests are made on 10g or less.
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-20-2001 11:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He probably meant dihydrogen monoxide, water.
Philou: is that HNIW you're talking about? Have you ever made any, or are they figures that you've read?
-A-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 100
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-21-2001 01:45 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, 7 inches are 18.78 cm., a little less but important cm's.
Agent Blak, with 10 grams probably no problem, but wouldn't the pressure transmitted by the water rupture the drum?.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-21-2001 02:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it would depend on the explosive some with a high cutting power might(PETN, RDX, etc.). it is just an Idea
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-21-2001 05:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made a test like that one time. I used only a 10 litre plastic bucket, but then, I only used ca. 5 cubic millimeters of pressed AP.
Thats approximately 0.005 grams! The bucket was split open and made a little jump.
I don't think you'd have too much luck in reusing a barrel in which you had placed a 10 gram charge, unless the barrel had a good capacity for deformation without rupturing.
Explosives in water are quite impressive.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-21-2001 02:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, water transmits the shock wave perfectly so It's like having the explosive in direct contact with the vessel. So even a small amount of exploive will rupture the vessel.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 02:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a barrel i test my explosivies in. Its a 55 gal burried half way in the sandy ground on the beach next to the local river.
The half of the barrel which is above ground is surrounded by rocks.. Ive tested about 20-30 grams of Acetone peroxide in the barrel in a copped tube with no damage. The shrapnel did not even penetrate the sides of the barrel. Although all tests were done with no water present. If i were more organized i would have completely burried it and placed concrete in the ground. Surely that would survive blasts from weak explosives such as acetone peroxide.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited April 21, 2001).]
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-21-2001 05:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30g of AP in any type of housing is going to do absolutly fuck all to 55 gal drum, wether the drum is full of water or not...
and philou, hexaazahexanitriisowurtzitane seriously?...you made that up right?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what i am trying to say. Unless you place the charge right next to the metal, then it WILL puncture a hole. 55 gal drums are meant to hold thigs that everything else cant. Its not thin, weak metal its quite thick and heavy.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-21-2001 08:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45 gallon drums aren't made of very thick steel at all, maybe 0.5mm. 30gm of AP is very capable of sending schrapnel straight though that.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 08:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes that is true but 55 gal drums are much more durable then its weaker brother the 45 gal drum. By burrying it it is given much more streangth also.
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-22-2001 05:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made several brisance-comparison tests on myself-cast lead blocks. The lead blocks were cast to a mold, which I made from concrete, poured between 2 big ice-cream pots. The weight of each is 8.8kg, upper diameter cca 12cm, lower about 13cm and height cca 8cm. You should use the same material for all blocks, it can be re-cast indeed. Then, a sample of cca 45g of explosive is put into an empty ~30ml film-box and is detonated. The volume of aperture is easily measured by weighing water you can pour in it. Simply weigh a beaker filled with water, pour the hole full and weigh again. The results I have obtained were from 25 to 52ml aperture. The strongest what I have tested(I made about 5 tests) was cast mixture of 60% tetryl, 32% picric acid and 8% of DNT. The density of cast mixture was 1.614g/cm^3. It was detonated using a homemade aluminum blasting cap containing 1g of wax-desensitised PETN and 300mg of lead azide.
YTS
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-22-2001 06:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a canadian gallon is the same as a usa gallon then the 45 gallon drum (uk) anthony was talking about and the 55 gallon drum are actually the same size as a i know a us gallon is smaller but i dont know about a canadian gallon ?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-22-2001 11:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dihydrogen Monoxide = H2O = Water.
Microtek, 5 mLs of AP would be more than 3 grams, and that's assuming loose powder. Even more pressed.
Mick, HNIW DOES exist. Links to the university website that synthed it were posted in the old forum. A websearch should find it, though I'm not sure about phils spelling.
Hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane is the proper spelling.
Here's a couple of links about it:
http://chemistry.miningco.com/science/chemistry/library/weekly/aa020899a.htm
and
http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/techtransfer/cradas/thiokol.htm
Here's a picture of what philou was refering to.
"Results of an early (1989) penetration performance test with small 30 gram shaped charges of relatively unrefined CL-20 (on left) and PBXN-5 (on right) showed that CL-20 penetrated 7 one-inch steel plates while
PBXN-5 penetrated only 5."
Also, before anyone gets all fired up about trying to synthesis this:
"We've refined the production process to the point that our customers are now paying around $400 a pound, which is a considerable reduction for the length of time we've been working it. I hope to quarter that cost and get it down to around $100 a pound."
This is the manufactures costs at industrial scale that you can never hope to match.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited April 22, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited April 22, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-22-2001 05:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UK gallons are larger than US gallons, so unless I am mistaken, the drums are exactly the same. I'm just used to calling them "45 gallon drums".
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-23-2001 01:56 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nbk2000: note I said 5 cubic millimeters, that is 0.005 mL and I had pressed it to about 1 g/cc.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-23-2001 03:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't even immagine something as powerful as Cl-20.....
------------------
DEAD BITCH NEVER SAYS 'NO'!
HAPPY BURNDAY SWEETHARD!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 07:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes that was what I was refering to, and sorry about the typo error, I was tired and also very much not to note that dihydrogen monoxyde was what was written and not monohydrogendioxyde..so of course it was water, H2O, or hemioxyde of oxygen!
That's a good explosive yes HNIW!
No I haven't synthetise it since it is not that easy and because I have much better ideas; right now I'm working with a group of Dutch guys on (amongst other things) DNU-like explosives (dinitrourea, keto-6RDX,...); I'm also quite interested in perchlorates/nitrates of polyamines(triaminopropanetriperchlorate,...), in linear polynitroaliphatics (1.2.3-trinitropropane,...), heterocyclic nitro derivatives (cyanurictrinitro compound,..)....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-24-2001 04:17 PM
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Stop showing off!
I was wondering: for 1,2-dinitroethane, for example, do you think you could bubble ethene through a cold nitrating mixture, and have an addition reaction? Like decolourising bromine water, but with the NO2 group being added instead of bromine atoms.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:47 AM
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Showing off???What do you, Mr Cool mean? You want me to shut up?
Anyway, yes practically it works: but I remind you that mixing a combustible with N2O4=panclastite thus quite dangerous process!!!Also, you have a lot of side reactions you are not wanting!
CH2=CH2 + O2N-NO2--> O2N-CH2-CH2-NO2 + ONO-CH2-CH2-NO2 + ONO-CH2-CH2-ONO + O2NO-CH2-CH2-NO2 + O2NO-CH2-CH2-ONO + O2NO-CH2-CH2-ONO2 + oxydations products (like aldehyds, carboxylic acids,CO2)+ polyethylenpolymers
In this a lot of interesting molecules but a mess to isolate; some of them are much more dangerous to handle than nitroaliphatics like nitrite esters and nitrate esters...you imagine the problem.
A better idea would be to use the Ter Meer reaction of LiNO2/NaNO2 or KNO2 with a halide(with a good solvant of those nitrites and with a preference for the LiNO2 more soluble in organic solvants).
Such a process was posted in the NG month ago to go from monochloracetic acid to nitromethane.
CH2Cl-CO2H + NaONO --> O2N-CH2-CO2H + NaCl
O2N-CH2-CO2H ---> O2N-CH3 + CO2 spontaneously!
So if I where you I would use to make the 1.2-dinitroethane:
1)1.2-dichloroethane (or the dibromo derivative) + silver,lithium,sodium or potassium nitrite + a good solvant of the nitrites!
2)2.3-dichlorobutandioique acid with sodium nitrite
HO2C-CHCl-CHCl-CO2H + 2NaONO ---> HO2C-CHNO2-CHNO2-CO2H + 2 NaCl
HO2C-CHNO2-CHNO2-CO2H ---> CH2NO2-CH2NO2 + 2CO2
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:12 PM
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No, I wasn't telling you to shut up! It's just all those long complicated words you use that I don't understand! Well, never mind.
I was a bit worried about the ethene catching fire on contact with the acids, but that other method sounds good. I already knew about the one for CH3NO2.
Well, thanks for the info!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-26-2001 07:32 AM
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OK, but there is no secrets, the very language of explosive is chemistry...mostly all the names used in this field are chemical names sometimes cut, sometimes with a few letters of them....
CTAP: cyclo-triaceton peroxyde (1.2.4.5.7.8-hexaoxo,3.3.6.6.9.9-hexamethylcyclononane)
MMAN: monomethylamine nitrate
TNG: trinitrate of glycerol, nitroglycerine
TNT: 2.4.6-trinitrotoluene
HNIW: hexaazahexanitroisowurtzitane
...
So when speaking of unknown/unfrenquently used explosives, you have to give the chemical name; since only military explosives have short names!
Organic chemistry nomenclature is not that complicated... you can find it in all basic org. chem. books; it allows you to draw the picture of a molecule as if it was a map: general squeleton and then specific places of branches towards each other!