hard targets - Archive File

[megalomania]

shady mutha
Frequent Poster
Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 02:47 AM
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When attempting to blow a hole threw reinforced concrete wall which charge is the better choice a tamped 'bangladoor torpedo' or a home made demolition block straped to the wall.


Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-29-2001 08:30 AM
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Why not do a tamped shaped charge? Surely that'd be the most effective?


ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-29-2001 01:23 PM
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Explosives And Demolition Field Manual - Here
Blasters Trainig Manual - Here

Http://on.to/explosives


[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited April 29, 2001).]



simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-29-2001 03:27 PM
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As it was said the best for this is a shaped charge, if you haven't got explosive for a shaped charge, internal placed charge can be made with ammonite, it is very effective. Contact charge with almost every explosive can be used, this charge must be tamped(covered) with something to increase the effect.


shady mutha
Frequent Poster
Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-29-2001 06:42 PM
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No shaped charges I will be using a ANNM/Al mix,the wall is about 1 foot thick and I have to place the charge against the wall as there will be no time for drilling or digging,I'm thinking a 5L jerrycan with a sand bag thrown on or a big rectangle biscuit tin gaffa taped about three feet up.


SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-30-2001 12:30 AM
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if you could make an improvised bangalore, using PETN or RDX, you could hopefully sledgehammer a hole large enough to slide it through the hole. The hole could be made between the reinforcing bars, then it would blow them to each side, making a hole big enough for your purposes. [What are you doing this for?]


BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-30-2001 07:28 AM
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If you use a sledge hammer to crack the wall, then it will probably be sensitized enough to be blown apart.
But it depends on the placement of the rebar in the wall.

If all else fails you could just rent a CAT.



Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-30-2001 03:15 PM
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Reinforced with rebar? good luck man that is even hard for demolition crew(Blasting).
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"

Agent Blak-------OUT!!



shady mutha
Frequent Poster
Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-30-2001 06:36 PM
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Unfortunately there will no time for anything accept putting it down and getting the fuck out of there I'm wondering which charge to use to cause the most damage to the wall,I was reviewing the explosive section of '150 questions for a Guerrilla'and the suggestion is ;bangladoor torpedo;for this type of work,then I was looking at my army demo book and the suggestion is putting demo blocks down,now I'm going for the homemade effort which do you guys think would work best,or what explosive technique would best to smash a hole in the cunt

[kinetic]

The best charge to use is called a satelite charge. Using a satelite charge made with 10 pounds of military C-4, I have blown 4 foot by 5 foot holes in 12 inch thick reinforced concrete walls. The only problem is, the charge will only shatter the concrete so you will have to cut the rebar afterwards. I have also used 5500 grain per foot ECT (explosive cutting tape; a flexible linear shape charge) but, the rebar was still intact. It is possible to use ANNM instead of C-4 but, I would beef it up to 13.4 to 14 pounds instead of 10. Anyway, a satelite charge is actually comprised of 8 charges simataneously detoned. The shockwaves are conducted into the concrete and the charges are placed and primed in such a way that the shock waves collide causeing destructive and consructive interferences. Basically, some areas of the concrete are vibrating strongly while others aren't as affected. This imbalance causes the concrete to shatter like glass. There is more to it but that's a brief explanation.

[Skean Dhu]

i'm sure you thought of this already but what about a shaped charge(or is that a bangalore torpedo and i'm an ignorant fool)? i saw a Military test of one and the plasma jet went through a reinforced highway separateor(those big concrete blocks), or maybe it was the side of an old bridge. either way it was impressive.

[kinetic]

Well, like I said, I tried 5500gr/ft ECT (read big frickin charge) which is a shaped charge- a linear shape charge. I used about 5 feet of it and placed it on the wall in a "G" shape.

A conical shape charge would only blow a small hole in the concrete- way too small for a person to crawl through.

No, a bangalore torpedo is just a hollow tube filled with cast Composition B- not a shaped charge in any form. A satelite charge is specifically designed for blowing holes in walls. If you can figure out a way to cut the rebar at the same time without using huge amounts of explosives, you could make a lot of money....

[yt2095]

I have no specific experience with large quantities of H.E, so this maybe complete bollocks.
running through a few mental simulations (fancy word for guess work).
PE.4 or the likes maybe too brissant and leave all the rebar intact but bent.
how about digging a hole at the base of the wall and using something along the lines of an ANFO charge? effectively heaving the wall up and out, letting gravity do the rest. the rebar would still be there, but the section you took out would be wide enough to collapse under its own weight (I picture 20 foot of concrete missing with shattered edges for a further 10 foot in each direction and the rebar laying on the floor wide enough to drive through).

as I said, this maybe utter crap and I`ve not seen what you plan to blow, but 12" with rebar says to me a heave rather than a shatter maybe more appropriate, leaving most the concrete adheared to the rebar , but weak enough to fall under gravity.

[kinetic]

That would work if you used a *very* large amount of explosives. However the idea is to use a little "finesse." A good breacher uses the minimum amount of explosives to get the job done. It would take you a lot less time and explosives to use two consecutive charges rather than dig a hole and pour 150 pounds (guess) of ANFO in it :p !

[yt2095]

Subtlety isn`t one of my strong points anyway :)

I just figured doing the same as you`de do with a CAT, but in one foul swoop instead, and let gravity pull the rest down.

how I saw it in my head was that a brissant compound would either ;

A. shatter the conrete and leave the rebar distorted (then you`de have to cut each peice manualy or blast again ( a hole big enough to crawl through with rebar at a 6" mesh would leave about 30 (ish) rods to cat/blast)
and that takes time and twice the noise.

B. a single brissant charge in situ (without being projectile driven) would create an incredible back blast.

C. with Anfo (or similar) I should imagine if placed correctly the wall could be almost twisted over flat (like kicking its legs from under it and forwards), leaveing the wall as a "drive over" surface or run over as the case maybe :)

certainly cost alot less, use only 1 bang, and garauntee a big enough area to move through.
I figure well placed as opposed to drilling and using splinter charges or cutters may work?

but like i said, subtlety isn`t my strong point and I could be talking complete bollocks?

Edit; Beats shit outa me why you`ve go to go THROUGH the wall? is over or under imposible?

[kinetic]

You only need 10 pounds of C-4 to blow a hole big enough for a person to walk through so back blast isn't as bad as you might think. I've been in a ravine about 40 meters away from a 10 pound wall charge using C-4 and I'm still here...

[yt2095]

10 pounds! holy crap!
I expect I over estimated the stuff, I`ve only ever seen things on ducumentaries using half that amount an was more than impressed!.
you obviously have more experience than I, and know what you`re on about. Ergo I`ll stick with my prevoius comment, I`m probably thinking crap! :)

[kinetic]

I wouldn't underestimate C-4 but I think many people overestimate the distance you can be from an explosion. Overpressure reduces cubically as distance doubles.

There are a few other reasons the 10 pounds is nessisary:

1. The charge was untamped and placed on a wall that was flat, in the open, and made of dense reinforced concrete. Some of the shock waves are reflected off the suface. The overpressure of the blast follows the path of least resistance and is absorbed by the open air.

2. I constructed these charges to breach walls of buildings and compounds on military objectives. They must defeat the target with 120% reliablity-- I always use "P" for plenty!!


The minmum safe distance in the open for 10 pounds of C-4 is 42 feet. For 5 pounds it's 34 feet and fo 1 pound it's 20 feet. Minimum safe distance is based on the closest you can be without rupturing your ear drums while wearing ear plugs. As you can see, multiplying the amount of explosive does not porportionally multiply the min safe distance (MSD).

If you are behind shielding (i.e. a ravine) the MSD is half of what it is in the open. Therefore, I could be as close as 21 feet from 10 pounds of C-4 behind a shield!! :cool: