megalomania
May 18th, 2003, 03:29 PM
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 01-23-2001 07:37 PM
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Ok I bought Green Thumb fertilizer and I need to extract KNO3 from it. I never did this because I usually bought the pure KNO3. What should I use to dislve it in boiling water or alchohol (because it evaporates faster). And how much KNO3 would I have from a 50lbs bag (roughly)? If I use boiling water can I use a heat source to evaporate the water? any answers would be apreciated.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 01-23-2001 07:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it actually kno3?, or does it have like 70% or something kno3? If it is just kno3, add it to water and filter off anything that floats and let if evaporate by itself.
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Explosives Archive
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 01-23-2001 09:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man its gonna take like hella long time to evaporate. Could I use an external heat source to make it evaporate faster? And thats why I was thinking if alchohol would work. And its not pure Potasium nitarte its 75%. By doing this proccess will I have pure potasium nitrate or not?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-24-2001 02:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That depends on the other ingredients,bro.If they are water-soluble,it may be tricky seperating them.What else is in it?.
------------------
"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"
the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 175
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-24-2001 05:31 AM
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if it is KNO3 you can dissolve it in boiling water (alcohol won't dissolve KNO3!) and the let the soloution cool down - maybe put it in the fridge and the just filter the recrystalized KNO3 out and dry it.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-24-2001 01:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like MacCleod said, it depends what the other chemical(s) are. You need to know their level of solubilty compared to the KNO3. Maybe you could even melt the fertilizer and skim off what doesn't melt. That's assuming that the know hast he lowest melthing point of all the chemicals in the mix. It could be dangerous if one of the ingredients was a fuel. Have you tried using the fertilizer as is? At 75% pure it should work for most things.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-24-2001 02:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never seen that make of fertiliser, but I've heard that the rest is AN, in which case it could be used as-is, but it'll get damp easily. Gently heat some and see if you start laughing! ( NH4NO3 -> 2H2O + N2O, which is laughing gas)
I think I might have heard that it contains AN from a cookbook when I was a newbie, so don't rely on that!
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 01-25-2001 03:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey guys thanks for the info. That was really stupid I should have tried using it as is. But if it doesnt work I'l boil it and see what happens. Im also palnning on making some AP but im having some after-thoughts after reading that its the most unstable high explosive. I dont know any precautions in making it other than Handle it with care and all that stuff.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-25-2001 08:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wan to serperate the KNO3 from the AN just make a hot saturated solution and cool it in the fridge. Since the AN is more soluble than the KNO3 it should stay in solution and the KNO3 would crystalise out.
There are lots of explosive that are much more unstable than AP, If you stick to making small (gram or two) and treat it with respect, then you should come to no harm. A gram may sound not worth making but even a gram detonating is impressive. especially if it's your first HE.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-11-2001 11:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
can you extract KNO3 fromn an all purpose fertilizer? it's 20 %, but all i have. what else could filter out aside from NH4NO3?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-12-2001 10:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be able to extract it, how easy it will be depends on what else is mixed in with it, which could be all kinds of crap.
Fractional Crystalization should be able to do it, but you'd need to only collect a particular fraction, say, what precipitates between 0*C and 10*C. Because all the diferent chemicals will be precipitating out at different temperatures.
It would be a lot easier to just buy some KNO3 fertilizer, or even a two part fertilizer that contains KNO3.
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited February 12, 2001).]
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-12-2001 08:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a method for converting NaClO3 to KClO3 on my website. The method for converting (insert chemical here) nitrate to Potassium Nitrate is similar, although I must admit I've never done it. I remember reading that Potassium Carbonate and NH4NO3 in solution will be converted to KNO3 by boiling until there is no Ammonia gas given off.
I'll be trying this in the summer, since it's such a hot (no pun intended!) topic.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Shadow
New Member
Posts: 4
From: NoWhere, NoState, NeverNeverLand
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-05-2001 11:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While on the subject of separating potassium nitrate, i got some but it has a fire retardent mixed with it.
Both of the chemicals are white, and about as fine as castor sugar. If tried dissolving them in water straight from the tap, nothing happened. I tried dissolving it with warm water, nothing happened. I tried dissolving it with boiling water and they both dissolve. I also tried sieving it and all of it falls through, and i tried filtering it when it was dissolved, nothing appeared.
So, i was wondering how on earth could i seperate these two?
--¤S¤H¤A¤D¤O¤W¤--
P.S Kind of off the subject, but i was wondering what would be the best proportions for AP with 9% H2O2, pure acetone and battery acid?
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-05-2001 02:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the product meant for? The only common things I can think of would be fertilizer and chimney cleaner. You'll need to find out what the impurity is, if you tell us what you bought someone might know.
There is a special section for explosive peroxides. But don't ask that question, find one of the many threads that cover the proportions.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-05-2001 04:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dissolve some of the product in the minimum amount of hot water and allow to cool. At some stage (might need to refrigerate it) one of the chemicals will crystalise out, filter out the crystals and test to see what it is.
Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 200
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-05-2001 10:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hallo Teck,
when your fertilizer contains KNO3 I would suggest the following method:
Dissolve so much fertilizer as possible in boiling water.
Filter the solution to remove solid components.
Then let it cool down very slowly.
The KNO3 forms very large crystals with the form of more or less thick needles. ( Until many cm long)
Other salts will form other crystals.
Then you can collect the crystals and grind then to powder.
Don´t wait the cold solution. Boil it again, poor in the fertilizer and so on.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 01-23-2001 07:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I bought Green Thumb fertilizer and I need to extract KNO3 from it. I never did this because I usually bought the pure KNO3. What should I use to dislve it in boiling water or alchohol (because it evaporates faster). And how much KNO3 would I have from a 50lbs bag (roughly)? If I use boiling water can I use a heat source to evaporate the water? any answers would be apreciated.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 01-23-2001 07:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it actually kno3?, or does it have like 70% or something kno3? If it is just kno3, add it to water and filter off anything that floats and let if evaporate by itself.
------------------
Explosives Archive
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 01-23-2001 09:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man its gonna take like hella long time to evaporate. Could I use an external heat source to make it evaporate faster? And thats why I was thinking if alchohol would work. And its not pure Potasium nitarte its 75%. By doing this proccess will I have pure potasium nitrate or not?
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-24-2001 02:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That depends on the other ingredients,bro.If they are water-soluble,it may be tricky seperating them.What else is in it?.
------------------
"That which does not kill us,makes us stronger"
the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 175
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-24-2001 05:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if it is KNO3 you can dissolve it in boiling water (alcohol won't dissolve KNO3!) and the let the soloution cool down - maybe put it in the fridge and the just filter the recrystalized KNO3 out and dry it.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-24-2001 01:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like MacCleod said, it depends what the other chemical(s) are. You need to know their level of solubilty compared to the KNO3. Maybe you could even melt the fertilizer and skim off what doesn't melt. That's assuming that the know hast he lowest melthing point of all the chemicals in the mix. It could be dangerous if one of the ingredients was a fuel. Have you tried using the fertilizer as is? At 75% pure it should work for most things.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-24-2001 02:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've never seen that make of fertiliser, but I've heard that the rest is AN, in which case it could be used as-is, but it'll get damp easily. Gently heat some and see if you start laughing! ( NH4NO3 -> 2H2O + N2O, which is laughing gas)
I think I might have heard that it contains AN from a cookbook when I was a newbie, so don't rely on that!
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 01-25-2001 03:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey guys thanks for the info. That was really stupid I should have tried using it as is. But if it doesnt work I'l boil it and see what happens. Im also palnning on making some AP but im having some after-thoughts after reading that its the most unstable high explosive. I dont know any precautions in making it other than Handle it with care and all that stuff.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-25-2001 08:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you wan to serperate the KNO3 from the AN just make a hot saturated solution and cool it in the fridge. Since the AN is more soluble than the KNO3 it should stay in solution and the KNO3 would crystalise out.
There are lots of explosive that are much more unstable than AP, If you stick to making small (gram or two) and treat it with respect, then you should come to no harm. A gram may sound not worth making but even a gram detonating is impressive. especially if it's your first HE.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-11-2001 11:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
can you extract KNO3 fromn an all purpose fertilizer? it's 20 %, but all i have. what else could filter out aside from NH4NO3?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-12-2001 10:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You should be able to extract it, how easy it will be depends on what else is mixed in with it, which could be all kinds of crap.
Fractional Crystalization should be able to do it, but you'd need to only collect a particular fraction, say, what precipitates between 0*C and 10*C. Because all the diferent chemicals will be precipitating out at different temperatures.
It would be a lot easier to just buy some KNO3 fertilizer, or even a two part fertilizer that contains KNO3.
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited February 12, 2001).]
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-12-2001 08:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a method for converting NaClO3 to KClO3 on my website. The method for converting (insert chemical here) nitrate to Potassium Nitrate is similar, although I must admit I've never done it. I remember reading that Potassium Carbonate and NH4NO3 in solution will be converted to KNO3 by boiling until there is no Ammonia gas given off.
I'll be trying this in the summer, since it's such a hot (no pun intended!) topic.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Shadow
New Member
Posts: 4
From: NoWhere, NoState, NeverNeverLand
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-05-2001 11:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While on the subject of separating potassium nitrate, i got some but it has a fire retardent mixed with it.
Both of the chemicals are white, and about as fine as castor sugar. If tried dissolving them in water straight from the tap, nothing happened. I tried dissolving it with warm water, nothing happened. I tried dissolving it with boiling water and they both dissolve. I also tried sieving it and all of it falls through, and i tried filtering it when it was dissolved, nothing appeared.
So, i was wondering how on earth could i seperate these two?
--¤S¤H¤A¤D¤O¤W¤--
P.S Kind of off the subject, but i was wondering what would be the best proportions for AP with 9% H2O2, pure acetone and battery acid?
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-05-2001 02:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the product meant for? The only common things I can think of would be fertilizer and chimney cleaner. You'll need to find out what the impurity is, if you tell us what you bought someone might know.
There is a special section for explosive peroxides. But don't ask that question, find one of the many threads that cover the proportions.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-05-2001 04:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dissolve some of the product in the minimum amount of hot water and allow to cool. At some stage (might need to refrigerate it) one of the chemicals will crystalise out, filter out the crystals and test to see what it is.
Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 200
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-05-2001 10:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hallo Teck,
when your fertilizer contains KNO3 I would suggest the following method:
Dissolve so much fertilizer as possible in boiling water.
Filter the solution to remove solid components.
Then let it cool down very slowly.
The KNO3 forms very large crystals with the form of more or less thick needles. ( Until many cm long)
Other salts will form other crystals.
Then you can collect the crystals and grind then to powder.
Don´t wait the cold solution. Boil it again, poor in the fertilizer and so on.