What have you made lately?

[A-BOMB]

This a thread to show off you new 'Toys' and things you have made lately. I have been working one a 12/20gauge shotgun for launching bird bombs and stuff, I was orignialy a 11gauge, but then you say 11gauge? well when I got it I tried chambering a 10 gauge shell and it wouldn't fit in without me hammering it in, but a 12 gauge shell would slip in almost to the end of the chamber but what do you expect from a gun made in a shed in spain the 70's(and thats before my uncle got his hands on it :rolleyes: ) I'm also working on a mini-gatteling type gun useing a old .22lr 10 round revolver. The barrel what bent so I cut it off and the main spring was gone so I cut the frame and made a 10 spring firing assemablies, and I mounted them on a plate behind the barrels, so I wind up the springs and pull the trigger and it should fire off all ten round FA but it jams so I have to figure that out. So what things are you guys working on?

[A_W]

Not really a weapon, but I've just completed my 100% homemade, full tactical ghillie suit. It took me near 24 hours to complete the suit (it was hell!).

The effectiveness of this camouflage device is amazing. I have pics. of me wearing the ghillie about 20 feet away, standing straight up in some light bush. I'm pretty much invisible. If I can get my hands on a scanner, I'll get the pics. posted.

It was all inspired by the "Predator" movies! :cool:

[zaibatsu]

Naturally all of the things I work on are in theory, but some more than others ;). What I'm working on completely in theory is a small, dumb (not guided etc) Anti-Armour rocket launcher, however mechanical ignition is troublesome, as I am planning on it being semi-automatic (kind of anyway - not true semi auto but one pull of trigger = one shot). Also a pistol built completely from scrap, and detailing the various stages ie barrel making, reaming the chamber, making the chamber reamer etc.

Unfortunately at the moment I don't have the required tools, so everything has to be theory :( Oh, and in the mean time trying to get my head around pump-action shotgun mechs and belt-fed machine gun mechs.

[stickfigure]

I too am working on a ghille suit, using a nomex flight suit, surplus net and some burlap from cut up sand bags. Also I am building an M-4 A3 Carbine, using an FN upper 16" Flat-top with GG&G Front and Back Flip Up Sights and a SIR system. This is to be mounted on a Colt Pre-Ban Lower (vote for the aw-ban sunset!) and I'm purchasing a Elcan M-145 scope built just for the rifle. To support this I'm piecing together a Molle 2 LBV set up to carry all my ammo, gear and such. This, among a couple of other small projects like sooping up my AK with some of the new accessories that have come out on the market, adding a Insight M-6 Laser/Light for my Beretta and picking up some parts for my SPAS-12. I figure that I need to taylor the existing weapons I have and maximize their usefulness as much as I can, this includes training and familiarizing myself around a core of weapons and equipment. I'm scoping out an Off-Road vehicle to get out away from the city once I get back to the States this summer, right now I'm looking at a M-1009 military Blazer which sell dirt cheap and are tough as nails. I got cool video the other day called Tactical Hand Signals form www.wararts.com this is really a good way for you and your group to communicate on a small group level silently. Even if you aren't a CQB type group but you have common interests with some people, get this video! Another project I am working on is self improvement and involves making a major career move from the Air Force into the Army as a Helicopter Pilot, I should at this time next year be in Flight School which I am really stowked about!

[Mr Cool]

"I am on sand in bright yellow daylight, yet there is no sun. Then I realize I am the sun. My light shines out as a Golden Path. When I realize this, I move out of myself. I turn, expecting to see myself as the sun. But I am not the sun, I am a stick figure, a child's drawing with zigzag lightning lines for eyes, stick legs and stick arms."

Sounds like a salvia trip or something :).


I'm not a good engineer, I've only made little zip guns, air cannons, that kind of stuff. Nothing very exciting. I do have a very powerful crossbow that I made, but I wouldn't count it as a weapon really because it's big, and doesn't have a trigger mechanism that I would put much trust in. If it's left for a while, it gets bored and fires itself... Currently I have plans for a sabot dart gun out of plumbing, next time I feel like building something I'll start that if I have any funds. It'll just be a simple thing, probably electrically ignited BP grains for the propellant, not a very high chamber pressure but a long barel for a long period of acceleration.

[ancalagon]

I'm working on a couple of things, including a maille armor shirt with a scale mail covering of throwing knives, but that one doesn't have much to do with chemistry (with the possible exception of treating the steel). I am also trying to draw up some plans for a theoretical gun combining an "ice cube system" (quote from the Fifth Element) with a flame-flower. I started out with an idea for a double tank/double barrel gun with a valve which would cut off one or the other of the barrels, and a small self-igniting propane torch under the barrel attached to the napalm tank. For the freezing tank I want to use liquid nitrogen, but of course that would make things very difficult, not to mention the havoc that would be wreaked by accidently combining something as cold as liquid nitrogen with flame. I also thought about a simple fire extinguisher tank, but I am afraid of the image that such a design would make, certainly not something that would put the ol' fear of god into anyone... Anyhoo, I'm never going to build the thing anyway, so the particulars are less important, although I do shoot for technical accuracy. I even thought of adding a third barrel of acid spray, and lining the barrel with pryrex, or something similar.
Back to the middle ages, and to a topic that I could use some comments on, I'm trying to make super hard blades. It is possible, of couse, to make high-carbon steel by folding the iron over and over. Also, often enough the edge of a blade and the blade itself are cooled at different times to make the edge hard but the blade more springy. There are many other tricks, and I have thought of several of my own, like twining gold and steel (gold being extremely tough yet malleable, and steel being hard but brittle) using depleted uranium, rolled homogonous steel, diamond glaze, tiny diamonds in the steel (as diamonds are the hardest natural substance in the world, but are so brittle they will shatter easily), making just the edge out of diamond and lazer cutting it to thinner than paper, and so on. If anyone is at all interested in this subject, let me know. If not, I'll shut up.

-Ancalagon

[Mr Cool]

On the subject of hard blades, I read something somewhere about a new steel that had been designed, specifically for blades. Most steels have been made by trial and error, ie, someone made some dodgy steel and found it to be suitable for a particular purpose, or someone wondered what would happen if X and Y were added to molten iron. This is because most steels, and other alloys used today, were invented before good computer simulations etc for metallurgy were available.
But this new steel (Ferrium 60 is the trade name IIRC, 60 being something to do with it's hardness) was designed for the purpose using electron microscopes, X-ray crystallography, simulations and all sorts of other things to analyse different steels and design the perfect one. They found the best ration of iron to iron carbide to iron nitride to other substances, the best sizes and shapes for the grains of each, and thus the best way and time to cool it in to form these crystals, etc.
Anyway, in a test they hit a blade made from Ferrium 60 with a Samurai sword, which are famous for their quality and strength. The new blade cut into the Samurai sword by 6mm, but it was not even dented.

[stickfigure]

I'm gathering parts right new for a flame-thrower and any information I can get my hands on. I'm waiting until I get back to the States before I put it altogehter, my dorm room is really small and not a proper workshop. And I don't think Uncle Sugar would appreciate, me testing it out in the parking lot. I've got two high pressure Oxygen bottles and I'm thinking of modifing a scuba tank to hold the gas, I've got a M2-A2 pressure regulator and an emergency pilot's breathing bottle to hold the propane for the wand. I'm going to go to Knob Creek during one of the Shoot Outs to get some pictures of how they are set up, just to put some ideas together.

About one of the earlier threads quote:

"There are many other tricks, and I have thought of several of my own, like twining gold and steel (gold being extremely tough yet malleable, and steel being hard but brittle) using depleted uranium, rolled homogonous steel, diamond glaze, tiny diamonds in the steel (as diamonds are the hardest natural substance in the world, but are so brittle they will shatter easily), making just the edge out of diamond and lazer cutting it to thinner than paper, and so on."

I highly recommend grabbing a couple of Blade or Knife magazines they are full of great information, my Uncle is a professional knife maker and he gets most of his information from them besides 40 years and a machinist. My Grandfather was also a knife maker while he was alive, so I've had a lot of mentoring in this area. One metal that makes very hard and durable blades is Titanium and Ti-Alloys also it is very cheap these days, a lot cheaper than DU or gold. Your thoughts on DU are kind of scary, first of all where are you going to get it? Uranium isn't something that is easy to come by and if you had enough of it to make a blade it's heavy as all hell and knives need to be light and easy to wield. Also while you are grinding and sharpening your blade your going to need to where a resperator as the flakes will cause cancer. You are also looking for hardness and mallability which are two qualities that really don't go toghether, hardness and flexibility do go together. On the Rockwell hardness scale 57-60C are typical quality hardness more than the average joe needs as they border on being too brittle. Damascus is a alternative way of making steel cable hard and flexiable. The japanese used a damascus process in folding their swords, also their swords were not just one piece of steel but two. They would forge outer blade then inner blade then sandwich them together, actually more like a taco, and weld them together during the rest of the process. Another way of making a knife tough is with a coating, Ti-Ni coating which has a hardness of 80C and when you sharper the blade you only expose the steel cutting edge which you want soft enough to shapen anyway. Like I said before pick up some of these magazines they have a lot of information on forging and knife making, I've been buying mags of eBay and I'm sure that someone is selling off their collection or will be.

[Da Boom Doctor]

Recently I have built a match lock musket with a 0.88 inch bore, a .22lr zip gun - using solder "sucker upper" for the firing and trigger mech, and reloaded some 12ga rounds with rock salt.
All of the above are not brilliant quality, but served very well in preventing me from revising, which I believe is the main thing (apart from massing firepower).

In the future I would be interested in making my own heads - using dense metals or their salts. And also would like to research more into kit guns such as the sten.

Ps - Last month I also made a sleave for a Brocock me38 chamber in order it could fire "blanks", however these blanks are rimfire, and when i came to try out my new "blank firing replica" no sound was produced as the firing pin had only struck the center of the cartridge. Any solutions?
Thanks

[ancalagon]

Damascus is pattern welding, and some find it too brittle (as supposed to toledo steel), and though they are very good blades, I think of them more as an art than as combat blades. As for DU, if I ever got my hands on some, I would only use a tiny bit to make the edge, or a thin layer to cover the blade, or something similar. It is far to heavy to use even for a knife. Also, the Japanese did not use damascus. The samurai swords were made by soft layers of iron covered by watered steel. Folded steel and damascus create similar effects, because the both increase the quality of the steel, but they use very different techniques. I was thinking about using titanium as well, as it is very strong yet light. Also, by twining steel with gold, I could get some of the toughness and malleability of gold, with the hardness of steel. Gold is useful because its toughness allows for using very thin wire. However, as was said, all this would be extremely expensive. If you search in google for dragonslayer blades, there is a group of people trying to make blades that cut modern steel the way samurai swords cut medievel steel. Also, the celts used to make blades by taking rods of iron and forging them into one blade. Unfortunately, these blades often burst apart, until someone came up with the idea to twist the rods together. I'm looking through all kinds of techniques to make the best blades. Thanks for the comments, and I hope there are more.

-Ancalagon

[zaibatsu]

Hehe, you're wanting to make your ME38 fire blanks eh: :D

Where abouts are you from - the UK?

Just checked out a S&P revolver of mine, and found that you would have the change the shape of the firing pin, possibly to a rectangular shape, extending till it will cover the rim. However, that would involve changing the firing pin, and the area around the pin. Not impossible, and I reckon you could do it by hand, but might be a bit fiddly taking it apart.

[Da Boom Doctor]

zaibatsu
Hmmm yes I did consider changing the shape of the firing pin, but as you say it would be very fiddly. But following your comments i've just had another look at it and it does seem to be possible. I would have to remove the circular disc that surrounds the firing pin, cut a slot in it - that would enable me to change the shape of the firing pin.
To alter the pin I would probly add a "foot" that would face outwards to engage with the rim. This does look a bit tricky though, which is a shame since I don't want to ruin it, as it does look very sweet - (atleast to point at the mirror with):cool: It is nickle coated and has walnut grips.
Yes I am from the UK. I take it I am talking with a fellow brit, who understands the burdens we have to carry (or not as the case is).
Thanks for the advise though zaibatsu.

ps. What firearms have you been able to fabricate that might be in my field of interest?

Thanks:rolleyes:

[zaibatsu]

Yes, cutting a slot in the disk surrounding the firing pin was what I attempted to explain, albeit in much more complicated terms :) I'm not sure it would be that hard, thinking about it again, as firing pins are designed to be replaced. I'd take apart my S&P again but last time I nearly lost a spring, and my brocock Specialist seems to be held together with drift pins, and I lack the correct drifts.

I am also from the UK yes. As to whether I have constructed any firearms I can neither confirm nor deny that :p but I can tell you your biggest problem will be aquiring ammunition, however this can be overcome. What firearms you can make depends on how much you wish to spend and what you have access to. With more information I can probably help you further.

[Da Boom Doctor]

zaibatsu

I think it really seems far too findly. Well atleast for me. My main reason is that I don't want to risk breaking the gun, especially as I got it for a very reasonable price (£60), and within the next few months the second hand market value should increase considerably for the ME38, As pretty soon they shall be under Firearms legislation, and the import of Brococks has been band for a few months now.
Sure the challege of converting it would be very fun, but I would like to be able to sell it in working (legal) order, possibly making enough money to fund something that really would pack a punch.

ps. If I were to do some "fiddling" I think it would be within my reach, as I have access to a lathe (via extracurricular activities at school) and ammunition wouldn't be a problem.
However with these resources there are much more fun and challeging things to be created than a "Blank" firing Brocock. Wouldn't you agree?!
;)

[Bitter]

"Back to the middle ages, and to a topic that I could use some comments on, I'm trying to make super hard blades. It is possible, of couse, to make high-carbon steel by folding the iron over and over."

How is folding it going to add carbon to the steel ? You need to carburize it first, or melt it and the add the carbon.

"Also, often enough the edge of a blade and the blade itself are cooled at different times to make the edge hard but the blade more springy. There are many other tricks, and I have thought of several of my own, like twining gold and steel (gold being extremely tough yet malleable, and steel being hard but brittle)"

You're going to be in for a dissapointment. Gold is not tough, it is soft and maleable, just like lead. I'm a little skeptical about the compatibility of steel and gold too, especially electrochemically. Have you thought about twining iron/mild steel wire and music wire together ?

In order to get the blade springy and the edge hard, try insulating the blade with clay when you heat it. Then when you quench it, it will cool slower than the edges.

And don't believe the lies and myths you hear about japanese swords- they are no better than anyone else's.

[zaibatsu]

Do you think the price would increase? I now believe the price will decrease for Brococks, as no doubt there will be a requirement to have a licence in order to own them, therefore decreasing the demand for Brococks.

With access to a lathe and 9mm rounds it would be extremely easy to manufacture a 9mm SMG in the PA Luty form.

[ancalagon]

-"Back to the middle ages, and to a topic that I could use some comments on, I'm trying to make super hard blades. It is possible, of couse, to make high-carbon steel by folding the iron over and over."

How is folding it going to add carbon to the steel ? You need to carburize it first, or melt it and the add the carbon.-

Sorry, I left out a step. Iron was was pounded with charcoal first, and the folding was done to eliminate impurities.

You're going to be in for a dissapointment. Gold is not tough, it is soft and maleable, just like lead. I'm a little skeptical about the compatibility of steel and gold too, especially electrochemically. Have you thought about twining iron/mild steel wire and music wire together ?

There is a difference between tough and hard. I know gold is malleable, that is why I want it. One of the great things about gold is that it can be made into very thin wire without just being able to pull apart. This is not to say that gold links on a necklace cannot easily be pulled apart, because they can. Rather, the wire itself is tougher stuff (though malleable). As to iron/mild steel/music wire, I'll look into it. Thanks.


-In order to get the blade springy and the edge hard, try insulating the blade with clay when you heat it. Then when you quench it, it will cool slower than the edges.-

I know. There are many tempering techniques designed to cool different parts of the sword at different lengths and whatnot. Clay is one common way.

-And don't believe the lies and myths you hear about japanese swords- they are no better than anyone else's.-

Not anymore, at least, because know all quality blades are made out of high carbon steel. Back in the day, samurai swords were harder and better quality than other swords.

[nbk2000]

I feel I should remind everyone here that it's that ever-busy SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) who makes things here, not any of us. ;)

Just felt I should say that before anyone says "I've made an RPG from toilet paper tubes and bazooka bubblegum...and have video to prove it!" (complete with their face and recognizable background). :eek:

I wonder how well one of these new superstrong steels would work as an AP core for bullets?

Also, the steel is Ferrium C69 (and others like C53). Sounds like some interesting stuff.

Google Search Results (http://www.google.com/search?q=Ferrium+steel&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)

[Da Boom Doctor]

zaibatsu

On the contrary, I believe the value of Brococks should increase.
The retail price of Brococks has increased by about a third already, this is due to i) Brocock stopping further import of the ME38. ii) The demand for these weapons increasing due to media coverage. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/01/05/ngun105.xml
That states the ease and processes by which a Brocock can be converted. Therefore greater demand has been created by people who want a Brocock in order to convert it.

My prediction is that if I stick my gun on ebay with a warning stating how easy it is to convert and that it will be soon baned. I should get a good price for it.

Thats my guess anyway.

oh and yes I have to admit, I did visit amazon and "Expedient Homemade Firearms : The 9mm Submachine Gun" does look rather tempting. Tell me, if this were a dream world we live in, would it be resonalbe to assume that you have some expirence of using this manual? If so was it easy to understand, replicate??
Dream a little dream for me.

[zaibatsu]

I know, having had confirmation of this from a major Brocock dealer, that one reason the price of Brococks has increased is due to the stronger Euro giving a less favourable exchange rate - Brococks are made in Germany by HW.

If you stick any airgun on Ebay it'll get taken off within a couple of days - GUARANTEED. Ebay don't allow any airguns, they kill the auctions very quickly.

Also, the more recent Brococks (IE Brococks, rather than the original Saxby and Palmer (who were taken over by brocock) are weakened to stop the firing of full power cartridges. .22LR should be ok I'd guess though.

[Unknown]

SWIM (thanks nbk2000) has a rocekt launcher made from 4 feet of 2inch PVC and a 6inch PVC handle affixed by means of a large wiretie. For firing, there is an push button inset on the front of the handle. The button is wired to a 9V battery with two wires with aligator clips running to the rear (breach) for attaching to the ignitor. The 9V battery is affixed to the underside of the barrel, forward of the handle, using a small piece of adhesive velcro. Three inch PVC end caps are used for dust covers, although the rear cap could be left on with the wires fed through small holes and soldered to 2 flat circles of copper glued on the inside of the cap. When the rocket is inserted, the igniter wires contact one strip of copper in the center and the other around the outside of first circle. I think the launcher was tested twice with small model rocket engines attached to a stick. There was flash powder in the front of the engine that made a really loud explosion when the engine exhausted its black powder. I would post a photo I found with the discription of the rocket if I wasn't such a computer dumbass and could figure out how to attach stuff here.

[Da Boom Doctor]

Oh yes there is definately enough pressure generated by the firing pin it to detonate rimfire primers - but you know my original problem...the rebellious firing pin hits the centre of the cartridge.
Hmmm....thinking around the problem a bit, can you think and suggest any ways of reloading .22LR in order that the primer is positioned in the center.
Should be pretty straight forward just means that I won't be able to use some section 5 ammunition I acquired once in a dream. oh well.

Yes the more I think about it, the more it seems reasonable, I mean its a revolver, I'm not really going to be getting through lots of rounds anyway - so having a few rounds that do work in it would be cool. Also means no one else would be able to use the gun. And if the situation arises " No Mr police man it can't fire live rounds, see it would only hit the inside of the cartridge".:rolleyes: Innocent as ever.

My sole problem is that the only primary I have access to at the moment is....(drum roll)...yes you guessed it...Acetone peroxide.

Any comments regarding methods of reloading and choice of primary (I would imagine MF or LA) would be very useful.
Thanks again.

[xyz]

If you have access to some other ammunition then why not extract the primer material from it and then use that in your primers?

[Da Boom Doctor]

yeah I like that idea. Would mean I wouldn't have spend time/money making the primer compound.
Set aside that problem - However how would I go about loading the primary into the case. Do I add some sort of a binder and "glue" it to the case, or do I pack it tight perhaps with paper wadding? How much primary is needed?

Thanks

p.s I am now faced with another problem, one which I am sure some of the Brits here understand. My FAC application is being sent of this week, and I want to have my gun cabinet in the same room as my work bench - The police are going to have to come round to check that my house and that room is "secure" - I think some SERIOUS tidying is in order!
:p

[Bitter]

"There is a difference between tough and hard."

Oh really :rolleyes: ? I never knew that :mad: There's a difference between tough and soft too- a big one. Seriously, gold isn't a good idea. I do recommend you try the music wire idea, though.


"Back in the day, samurai swords were harder and better quality than other swords."

Pattern welding was known in Europe 600 years before it was know in Japan. Enough said.

[Skean Dhu]

however true that may be bitter, you can still make a katana without using pattern welded steel.

Most katanas/samurai swords were made out of high carbon steel. what made them so special was that they were sharpened using a method similar to this; 100 strokes at 1 degree, 99strokes at 2 degrees....... by doing this they(the blacksmith) made an extremely sharp long lasting edge on the blade. also by coating the sword with varying thicknesses of clay before quenching it a final time it made the edge extremely hard but left the spine of the blade rather soft thus enabling it to bend under stress. it also left a pretty hammon along the edge.

[ancalagon]

>"Back in the day, samurai swords were harder and better quality than other swords."
>
>Pattern welding was known in Europe 600 years before it was know in Japan. Enough said.


Yes, but the japanese didn't use pattern welding, or damascus, in their medieval swords.

>however true that may be bitter, you can still make a katana without using pattern welded steel.

Yes, you can make any blade using pattern welding.

-Anclagon

[Bitter]

Perhaps this liink will help. (http://www.thehaca.com/essays/hype.htm)

[ancalagon]

I recommend a book called "IAI The art of Drawing the Sword," which speeks not only of the quality of traditional katanas, but has an entire section on the ritualistic and traditional testing of the katana.

-Ancalagon

[ancalagon]

What did you use to pressurize the tank? I'm not talking about the chemical, I mean how did you get CO2 inside, or did you buy an alreay pressurized tank?

There is a relatively new automatic assault rifle that uses a blow-back action, is fairly powerful, has an interesting shape, and is pretty accurate. The intersting thing is, however, the cartridges have no shells. The bullets are encased in a impact sensitive (plastic?) explosive, and this casing, being an explosive, dissapears into gasses when the gun fires. Therefore, no casing. No casing means that the action can be much simpler, because you don't need to figure in an automatic casing ejector. Instead, one could use a simple pin firing system which detonates the explosive, rocketing the bullet forward and the pin back until it uncovered the next cartridge in the clip. The pin would then slam forward, pushing the bullet into the barrel and slamming the cartridge against the rim, starting the whole process over again. The absence of a need for an ejector means that the gun does not require the precise measurements usually present in automatic weapons, making it easier for a moderately skilled engineer.

-Ancalagon

[zaibatsu]

I don't understand how straight blow-back can work with a fairly powerful cartridge - powerful being relative and therefore comparable to other assault rifle rounds ie 5.56mm or 7.62mm. That would require a substantial bolt weight (yes, it is still possible though) which would increase the weight of the rifle. I think the rifles are probably either retarded blowback or gas operated. Also, this technology isn't new, I think H&K were developing it in the 70s. Also, I think there would be great problems with consistency, a powerful gun is useless if you can't hit what you're aiming at. For ease of manufacture see PA Luty's straight blow-back 9mm submachine gun - that doesn't require precise measurements and can mostly be built with hand tools.

[ancalagon]

I don't understand how straight blow-back can work with a fairly powerful cartridge

I meant fairly powerful for an assault rifle. Germany's H&K G11 used a 4.7 x 33mm cartridge, while most assault rifles use 5.56mm or 7.62mm cartridges, as you say. Also, as you no doubt know, the development of particular technology usually greatly precedes common useage. As for the accuracy, the G11 is reputedly (or so I have been told) fairly accurate.

[zaibatsu]

Oh, yes, there are always teething problems at the start of the development of a new technology. But I think it'd be best to wait till it's perfected than start testing now. However, I see how useful it would be for expedient manufacture - you can mould/lathe the bullets, and then just mould the propellant, with no need to purchase/make (which I think would be rather expensive) the brass.

However, I see one big problem: fouling of the action. This happens in AR15s because the propellant gasses go straight back into the action, rather than operation on a gas piston (so I believe). This obviously builds up and causes problems. With a caseless projectile this can only be made worse I would think.

[knowledgehungry]

Well my friend(he really is my friend) has been working on converting a blank firing .22 to one that fires real bullets, im not sure how things are going to work out for him. But ill let you know when ihear his results.

[stickfigure]

I hope your friend doesn't have to dig a .22 casing out of his hand. Blank firing .22 aren't exactly build for handling a real round and they are usually cast pot metal, not a good gun quality metal. Your friend should invest in a good handgun. Bought from a private individual, no paperwork, low key and not dangerous. I've seen a 20 guage widow-maker that "broke" open after it was fired and broke the man's finger. I say broke as the action opened from the recoil, it really wasn't made correctly and also the internals were worn. A 20 guage has a lot of back pressure, either build it right or leave it alone.

[ancalagon]

I don't know about turning blanks into full cartridges, but I was thinking of something similar (maybe your friend will try it, because I'd like to hold on to my fingers for a bit longer). Remington makes .22 cartridges to launch nails from nail guns. Some of them are pretty powerful. I was thinking it may be possible to attach lead or some soft, and maybe lighter, metal bullet (since accuracy would be way off, lethality may take its place by using a bullet that would smash through the target instead of pierce), to the end of these cartridges. However, as I said, I don't want to be digging scrap metal from my flesh anytime soon, so this might forever remain in the theoretical.

-Ancalagon

[Killy]

Im working on 9mm submachine gun, PA Luty design, from his first book, by now its just in theory, and little work on some metal, to see how would it look like when I get real measures materials.
Unfortunately some pipe measures are nearly impossible to acquire, so Im gonna modify original measures by few mm, more or less.

If anyone here has some experience with Luty designs, or wish to make the same thing, feel free to contact me, or send me some info, I would appreciate very much.
By now, on net I found just one info (and with some pictures) about that, some guy build it with chambered UZI barrel he bought, but it was not working auto because spring was no good.
Hope thats not the only info there is.

[Shadowmartyr]

Most recently I've been reading into whatever I can find about mortars. My friends and I built a simple one for paint ball that worked pretty well. It was a 5' 1/2 inch thick PVC pipe with just the right diameter to fit a tennis ball, with a tripod and board for support. The ball was filled with a normal melted KNO3/Sugar mix with some visco fuse taped on it, just like a pyrotechnics shell per say.

And anyway, it was basically a cannon, we had pre-packed "charges" of compressed black powder cylinders in bags that we would load in the bottom (I forget how many grams), somebody would take a dowel with padding on the end and ram it, next you put a thin layer of styrofoam and finally you lit the smoke bomb tennis ball, put it in the tube and have somebody stick a fuse in the bottom of a hole we drilled that would fit in the black powder, and then light.

That was basically the entire process. You could actually aim it pretty easy as it didn't have to be dead accurate and smoke covers a large area.

We had our own mortar team in the back dropping smoke where we needed it was nice to have.

Now I'm looking into a more advanced design perhaps with premade shells with a cap on the bottom of the shell and when dropped would hit a primer and set it off like a real mortar.

[deathbymyhand9]

My current project will most likely never leave paper and minor tinkering but, I am working on an endothermic bomb that would have a relatively large area of effect. I will consider my project a success when I can walk up to a flower and snap it off as if it were frozen. The goal for a blast radius is about 3 yards of noticeable effect.

[totenkov]

Demo charges.

SWIM has been experimenting with small linear shaped charges welded directly onto a piece of 1/4 inch plate wired to a timer. Rare earth magnets hold the charge to whatever it is cutting through. I have made various sizes, different sized plates, experimenting on penetration power. The shaped charges themselves are based on Axt's charge here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZRAbUcUkIc

The demo charge is very impressive, punching through multiple sheets of plywood bolted together, steel plate even poured concrete!

I have also been working on a few recurve bows, another crossbow and other woodwork projects. I don't really have a hand for woodwork, making cabinets and stuff, metal work is what I am really good at.

SWIM has been working on new methods of making det-cord in up to 5 meter lengths which I have been successful using ETN and compressed air.

John gave me a good idea over on the Forum of everything about radio detonation, I would never think of attempting this though ;)

[LibertyOrDeath]

This is really a very long-term goal, but ultimately I'd like to be capable of manufacturing some kind of "poor man's RPG" (incidentally, a book by that title is on the FTP). It wouldn't have to be a full-sized anti-tank weapon, but maybe something along the lines of a shotgun slug incorporating a lined shaped charge. This was discussed at some length in the temporary forum section known as The Graveyard.

Why this goal? To allow for the penetration of any future armor worn by jackbooted thugs that may be impenetrable to even powerful rifles. Such armor may be based on carbon nanotubes or some other such high-strength material. If such armor is made available to government enforcers around the world but not to serfs and peons (and this WILL one day happen) then those enforcers will be able to act with near-impunity against the citizens of the world, and freedom will surely die forever -- unless there are countermeasures.

The shaped-charge shotgun projectile isn't an original idea; there's even a patent on such a design (US 5,000,094 (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5000094.html)). Nevertheless, I have some doubts about the effectiveness of this design. There are three things I wonder about:

(1) The primer in the front of the shell might interfere with SC jet formation.
(2) The SC cavity appears unorthodox to say the least.
(3) The weight distribution of the slug doesn't appear to allow for good aerodynamic stabilization.

Above all, I want to come up with a design that just about any old Elmer Fudd can manufacture in his garage or basement with a minimum of tools and material. Fancy piezoelectric fuzes are a no-no here.

It may turn out that a shotgun charge will be too difficult due to the rather small size. It could hold a reasonable explosive charge, but stabilization could be a problem for a non-spinning projectile that's heavier toward its rear. Fold-out fins on a shotgun slug would be a bit complex, though streamers released from the rear of the slug might be an option.

It wouldn't necessarily have to be a shotgun projectile anyway, since the speed at which a shaped-charge projectile strikes a target has no effect on jet penetration. So maybe even something like a crossbow could be used to deliver a bolt with a somewhat larger homemade warhead at its tip. Whatever the delivery mechanism or exact nature of the system will turn out to be, this is my long-term goal.

Currently there isn't much opportunity to work on this, but I've been doing as much research as possible. Once I start making progress -- or if in the meantime others are interested in discussing this concept further -- then a new thread can be started.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I have thought about this also. To date these are the areas I have experimented with:

1.) A shotgun cartridge when disassembled can be made to propel a wooden stick with varying degrees of speed / flight characteristics by altering the charge but leaving in the wad. No powder and a 14 gram stick (10gr and 4gr weighted tip) will get about 50m. BP additions will give a sizable ability to deliver a 40gr payload / stick with some accuracy. Smokeless (starting at a 5-10grain level of Unique will push a fucking golf cart it seems.

2.) The stick and attached warhead was determined to be a viable starting point as everyone can make them and the "warhead" would be outside the launching tube.

3.) A serious challenge would be to make the stick more aerodynamic.

4.) Enough power to launch same with workable accuracy seems to make this the more viable choice than preparing a rocket from the ground up.

Complicating Parameters:
Disassembly of 12ga shotgun shell of consistent manufacturer and starting with primer only, engaging a wooden dowel to meet with the wad and (using 18" bbl) determining the propulsion of stick with small attached weight on the end at various angles as starting point for the above. It may be possible to achieve a 2oz "warhead". the "stick" - dowel, needs to be very exacting in it's weight. This has been a complication as wood varies quite a bit due to density. Also, the dowel needs to fit snugly but not too snugly and this needs to be a consistent fitting issue. Paper wrapping to achieve proper fitting is very problematic. There are an enormous amount of variables (angle of approach, length, gas blow-by, etc) with this arraignment but it COULD be a viable method.

[tiac03]

Well I'm half way through making a Reproduction Panzerfaust, trying as much as possible to make it historically accurate. It will be mostly to put up on my wall and look at once and a while but I do know that if SWIM gets his hands on it he will probably drill the holes in the tube for the primer and the pin that holds the charge in place and attempt to fire a dummy warhead. A dummy warhead because although SWIM is into some shady practices, he isn't stupid and knows that he doesn't want to become part of the scenery.

So far the firing mechanism is done and all that is left is to weld it onto the tube and to get myself a piece of spring steel to make the "hammer/pin" probably going to use a hack saw blade for it. Then I'll just have to fashion a Dummy Projectile using the rest of my scrap metal and a piece of wood.

The Main reason for making one is because I know I'll never get to have or use a real one and I have been interested in these weapons since I first saw a Documentary with one in it when i was a kid. I also know that the Germans were able to turn these weapons out pretty quickly even when they were under attack. So I wanted to see how it would be to make one from a piece of pipe and some scrap sheet metal.

I think SWIM might take all the information I've learned in this project (Mainly how to make 1:1 scale parts using pictures and some known measurements) to make himself a reproduction RPG-2 that will be 100% functional. But thats in the future and I still have lots more to learn before he can use it for his non-politically correct ways.

[kaiserbill]

I take it then that you are using the Panzerfaust 150 as you pattern model? The Russian RPG-2 used this version as its design starting point.
Some backround information on the Panzerfaust series:

Panzerfaust 30 was the smallest in the family and was eminently suitable to close quarter urban combat. Range of 30 meters.
Panzerfaust 60 ahd a range of 60 meters.
Panzerfaust 100 had a range of 100meters. Its velocity of 60 meters per second was twice the velocity of the Panzerfaust 30.
The Panzerfaust 150 was a little more complicated in that it had a 2 stage propellant system that gave longer range. I think it was reusable, whereas the other variants were simple throwaway weapons.

Each of the variants used mild steel tubes of slightly increased diameter, and each had a progressively larger amount of propellant. The really interesting bit is that the propellant was black powder, making this the most useful anti-tank launcher for your resistance types. The hard bit would most likely be the construction of a properly functioning shaped warhead with fuse/detonator.

Tiac03, it would be most interesting to know how this friend of yours gets along with the propulsive side of this project. So to ask once more, which model are you patterning your project on? I've had a Panzerfaust project of my own in mind for a while now, but as I keep impregnating the wife, my free time seems to rapidly diminish every year.

[tiac03]

Mine is the closest to the pzf60 firing mechanism wise. Although the tube is only a 32mm so its missing that extra 8mm to be an exact replica.I would have gone with the Full out 30 (since it was a 32 mm) but I didn't have satisfactory Images of the firing mechanisms just some sketches. Also Using the 60 (100's) firing mechanism also allows easier reloading if ever I Decide to.

Just adding to your statement They had the Panzerfaust 30 Klein (faustpatrone) before the Pzf30.

The Pzf 30 was developed because the Klein tended to ricochet off of tanks. So they redesigned the warhead. This also allowed them to increase penetration to 200mm making it a more effective weapon. Its main downside being that 30 m wasn't all that far from someone in a tank shooting at you... so they increased the diameter of the tube and increased the propellant in the 60.
The 100 Is the same weapon (diameter and warhead wise) but the stabilizing fins were shaped differently and I think they added a second pouch of propellant in the tube further behind the first that was ignited by the first pouch going off.

As for the warhead and Det for it, Most of the people on here have posted very interesting videos and methods with shaped charges, so finding info on that isn't difficult.

Which leads me to How the Germans Got theirs to explode: The F.P.Z 8003 (Search and see how brilliant the Germans were. Simple yet safe and effective.)

[kaiserbill]

Thanks tiac03, sounds like an interesting project. I'd completely forgotten about the Panzerfaust 30 Klein, so thank you for the correction.

Have you used the 32mm diameter pipe due to unavailability of the 40mm pipe where you are? I take it the pipe is seamless? It would be of great interest to see the finished article and to hear the results of any tests your friend may conduct.

[tiac03]

I actually came across it sitting in someones basement and they were about to throw it out. I took it and cut it to size. I still haven't had the opportunity to weld the sheet metal to the tube because I ran out of wire for my welder so as soon as I do get her running I'll weld it to the tube. I'll post pics of finished product and If it works properly I'll scan the templates I made for the firing mechanism and sight and post'em up. I can't guarantee the amount of time Before I get to test it since I don't get out of the city often anymore. Maybe If I get her done by new years I'll test it then.

I'll also post up any other info that I have gathered during this project including the functioning of the fuze and the pictures of open ones.

[kaiserbill]

tiac03, thanks for the feedback. Sorry about the delay, but as I'm a newbie my correspondence must be moderated first as you know.

It would be most interesting if you did manage to get the infernal thing to work as planned. And if so, those templates and drawings of your success would be most interesting to a likeminded fellow such as I, and no doubt many others here. It would also serve as motivation for my own project, which unfortunately only consists at the moment of some pipe, sheet metal, and drawings.

[dougpfaff]

I'm working on building one of Frank Dehaas's Chicopee Rimfire rifles in .22LR. It's a long-term project. Don't know what kind stock I'm gonna put on it yet.

[tiac03]

Well I got some pics of my "trigger" sight group for the Panzerfaust. It isn't completely done yet so excuse the super heavy duty holder-togethers and the altogether non-finished look...

This is only pictures of my unfinished part, I didn't bother taking a picture of the pipe because well... it's a pipe.


This is the firing mechanism together and in "ready to be fired position". Note missing safety and the sight holes are not cut out.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5572/img1497mx0.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1497mx0.jpg)

This is in "fired" position. Notice I'm still missing the primer well (it looks like a nut sitting near the back end if you see one in pictures)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5103/img1496yp4.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1496yp4.jpg)


This is the exploded side view. The Piece of spring steel was made from a hacksaw blade, and still requires the firing "pin" to be attached. I'm unsure if the thin blade will have enough force to fire a shotgun primer hopefully it will once the pins weight is added, if not I'll attempt to double it up.
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3760/img1498xk9.th.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1498xk9.jpg)

This is exploded top view. I still haven't added the notch to the non-business end of the spring steel to keep it from moving side to side.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7467/img1499lp6.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1499lp6.jpg)

Lastly this is a close up of just the base of the firing mechanism. and was the most difficult thing to find information on due to never being exposed in pictures(the safety was second). The cuts still have to be welded shut (once mounted) and the two sets of little notches towards the front have to be bent around the safety when it is installed.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9666/img1500eh9.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1500eh9.jpg)

So hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can have it up and running and able to test whether it can fire the primer.


As I've stated before this is a "see if I can do it" project and not a real use every day "tool". So as long as I get one successful test firing out of it I'll be happy to retire it. So please spare me the "why are you wasting your time making this if you can make a _______ and use it over and over again easily" posts.

[kaiserbill]

Bravo!! Seems like your project is coming together quite nicely. Have you decided to use a shotgun primer as a matter of expediency, or to try and match as closely as possible the original? The primer/detonator is one of the few pieces on the Panzerfaust that I have no clear pictures or diagrammes for, apart from your usual military book side-profile cutaways.

Thanks for posting the pictures tiac.

Edit: tiac03, just for interest sakes, I understand why you would want to end up with an RPG-2 type device over the Panzerfaust. The RPG had its black powder propellant charge preloaded into cardboard holders, which were inserted into the RPG-2 warhead tube before firing. The obvious advantage is that you do not have to throw away the launch tube. That might be fine for the government with all their resources, but will be a tad expensive and wasteful to the average citizen. It will also facilitate rapid reloading, although I would imagine your launch tube would have to be a more substantial and better quality item.

[tiac03]

Warhead detonator or you mean the Primer for firing the warhead out of the tube.

Primer I will use a shotgun primer, which according to what I read was close if not the thing used. Have side views of the primer "well".

Detonator I have a cross section drawn view, along with the written explanation and some pictures of one taken apart.

[HypocriticalBuddhist]

A meteor hammer. 12ft of rope with a rusty knife at one end and a monkey fist with a 1" diameter lead fishing weight on the other.

[DiablerieBane]

I went out and bought 3.5 feet of steel tube. Inner diameter 1.75 inches. Wall thickness .75 inches. I had a welding shop seal one end with 3 inches of 1.73 diameter steel round. It works exactly like a civil war cannon. ie. gunpowder charge, wadding and the shot. It can fire a golf ball(diameter 1.68 inches) through about 4 inches of plywood. Ive bought truck bearings and fired them through 1 foot thick cinder block walls. homeade of course, hahah I'm no terrorist. Ive used it like a glorified shotgun, loading half inch steel shot into it, thats my favorite so far. I wont lie and say Ive built and used these, but I have made full scale schematics for impact grenades and a special shot that penetrates an object and then explodes, somewhat like a bunker buster but not at all. I came up with a real clever spring loaded grappling hook. IF, and i stress if, I get around to making it, I could find my way to the top of just about anything. I'm working on a discarding sabot round right now, very excited. If anybody would care to help, im not entirely sure on the right materials for the impact grenade. If anyone wants more info im also willing to provide that. I have plans for a homemade mortar and shells. And recently ordered a book on expedient homemade sub machine guns. This is my first post, I sure hope i followed all the many rules. Cheers.

[Boom-stick]

SWIM made a compressed air projector (air gun)out of a pen shaped precision oiler. It fires a 3" steel wire dart through 3/4" of wood at 30':) also fires .22 airgun pellets, 6mm BB's and ...well pretty much anything else that will fit in the bore.:cool:

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I think I've finally hit upon the method to make a portable Exploding Bridge Wire unit. The professional boxes are about 1-2 thousand dollars depending upon features and manufacturer. Essentially you need high amps and voltage. A serious jolt; to vaporize the wire. Most of the units actually have a high voltage warning on them. Some are not portable. My unit cost will average about $250-300 depending upon layout and container.

Most all of this spins around ignition systems for high performance racing automobiles. The coils used for Drag-strip oriented vehicles are 2 AMP, 45,000 VOLT MONSTERS! (Those are REAL numbers) Additionally the newer CD ignition systems replace points on cars today and provide a method to get all of this in a shoe-box sized device with a battery large enough to get the current/voltage devil churning.

My first few setups were very dangerous. I don't think I will ever have a system that is as safe as a stick welder but they DO vaporize wire up to about 28/30 size and any material that happens to rest on it. Give an idea what 1.5-2 amps @ 40k volts will do .....it will basically knock all the feathers of any bird dumb enough to land on it, turn a ground squirrel inside out, burn off a finger completely or stop your heart if it runs across your chest in most any way, etc. It's NOT a lightweight shocker... With such a thing, ETN become one Hell of an initiator in & of itself.

[iHME]

That sounds scary and awesome at the same time.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Most everyone has heard of the booby-trap device that is a simple rifle round in a tube. Buried in the ground the victim steps on it and the round discharges into the foot.

This has been made into a high art by some countries that actually manufactured some of these very simple devices. What was utilized was a "ballpoint pen" spring concept within the tube and a well made firing pin to provide inertia enough from a simple step to fire the round.

The biggest problem was not the spring within the tube but the firing pin. If the pin were just a simple nail type affair the alignment would need to be exact. But there is a product that is available that makes this device virtually infallible. This is the "dowel center". These can be very inexpensive (they very in price but there are cheap ones) and a large amount can be obtained at once.

The dowel center is an all steel cylinder of various sizes that has a very sharp cone that functions as a firing pin. The alignment no longer has to be perfect to allow the discharge of the cartridge. Since it is a one time wonder, the complexities of the high level manufacturing process are not needed. To make this work with a SLOW FOOT FALL (the biggest problem) the spring is used with a cardboard or thick paper cylinder inside of the tube. When the victim steps in it, the inside cardboard tube is crushed, even if the foot fall is slow, so that a sudden drop of the cartridge against the firing pin is guaranteed; firing the device.
In fact it can even be made with PVC and still function with as little as a 2x4 falling atop it. Very inexpensive, easily hidden, and works every time... Very scary indeed....