pepper spray - Archive File

[megalomania]

Shiper
New Member
Posts: 10
From: Hong Kong
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 03-31-2001 11:08 PM
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anyone know making pepper spray?
or something like that?


c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-01-2001 04:14 AM
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A good starting point would be a Google search for Capsaicin, a substance extracted from red chili peppers (this is the active ingredient in pepper spray, or OC - usually 10 to 15%). You could then follow up with a patent index search. In the meantime, here's a web page that gives some useful information: http://www.ncmedicaljournal.com/Smith-OK.htm
I frankly think that doing your own synthesis without proper equipment might prove as unpleasant as actually being pepper sprayed. There's not much point anyway, since OC sprays are widely available on the internet.

A friendly suggestion to avoid becoming a target - next time around try to do a little research on your own first.

[This message has been edited by c0deblue (edited April 01, 2001).]



Digital-Demon
New Member
Posts: 38
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-01-2001 08:36 AM
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Shiper,
Do you go to the Hoodlums forum????


Shiper
New Member
Posts: 10
From: Hong Kong
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-02-2001 05:13 AM
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no,i hav'nt.
can you show me the way to there?


Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-02-2001 04:35 PM
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Read nbk2000's pdf.


Digital-Demon
New Member
Posts: 38
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-04-2001 01:35 PM
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Shiper,
www.Survival.com follow the links to forum.


Shiper
New Member
Posts: 10
From: Hong Kong
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-06-2001 05:30 AM
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thank you for the link.
sorry,shiper is not my real name,it's just my online name.

[zeocrash]

i've recently made a device for extracting substances using supercritical butane (see my post in chemicals aparatus and equipment)
anyway one of the things i'm planning to try it on is chilli seeds, to see if i can extract the capsicin.
i'll see what i come up with.

[metafractal]

For a poor man's improvised pepper spray, a saturated solution of citric acid doesn't do bad.
Consider:
Solubility of citric acid in water at room temperature =~70%
Concentration of citric acid in lemon juice =~5%
So: You know when your eating a grapefruit or squeezing a lemon and it squirts you in the eyes? Stings, doesnt it? Well, imagine that fourteen times over!
Could anybody predict whether this would cause permanent blindness?

[xyz]

There's a patent drifting around somewhere about an improvised pepper spray from black pepper and 5% acetic acid (the patent says that vinegar will do here).

It is something about soaking Xg of black pepper in XmL of water overnight, then filtering and adding XmL of vinegar. I wish I had written down the patent number.

[Mr Cool]

IIRC Anthony tried that pepper + vinegar one and found it to be relatively ineffective. But maybe a better extraction of the stuff in pepper would yield a useful product.
Acrolein or chloropicrin are the best home-made ones, I actually used an acrolein solution a while back and it definitely worked.

[Chade]

XYZ, I hunted down that patent for you. It's US5698180. You really have to take a look, it's great. This guy has so clearly knocked this up in his kitchen. 5% Acetic acid (vinegar), makes 49% of the solution, a pot of black pepper just covered with water for 24-48 hours stirred a minute every 8 hours, and then filtered out. This makes up 15% of the solution. 35% ethyl alcohol to preserve the rest of it, and 1% food colouring so the would be mugger can be ID'd later on. (I pity the fool who tries to mug anyone from this forum!)
Of more interest is the fact he says that capsicum based sprays are sometimes fatal (60 cases in USA) and sometimes ineffective if the attacker is high, drunk, or a wild animal. Perhaps worth mixing the two sprays together? CS/pepper spray for full coverage?
Find the patent (and loads of others) at http://ep.espacenet.com/

[Chade]

OK, I made some of this, and tested it on myself. (with a few friends to help out) It does work, if you can get it in someones eyes. I couldn't see a thing, or open my eyes at all, and I'd say I've got a moderate pain threshold. I have no idea how reliable it is, of course, but it would certainly render me unable to attack. After about three minutes rinsing out my eyes (and washing the dye off) I was perfectly fine. If you ever get attacked, it might be an idea to use this spray in conjunction with another techique (fight/flight) as it's cheap, easy, and less damaging to the target than most other self defense gadgets I can think of.
The delivery system is an issue as something like an aerosol can would probably be ideal, but for home-made purposes, I used an old squeezy lemon juice bottle. (The kind that are shaped like a lemon) Something like a water pistol could work too.

[FragmentedSanity]

Chade - any more info on the effects of the spray? Is it only any good if it gets in their eyes or is it irritating to skin / mouth / lips / nostrils?
Have you tried it out against Dogs or such - A barking snarling snapping dog behind a fence would make a good test victim... but just leave out the dye so the owners dont get curious. Im just interested to see if this will actually stop something that wants to attack you.
It would be nice if this is effective as its really basic kitchen chem, and nothing toxic or dangerous to deal with at all.

Oh BTW there have been a few threads discussing refilling and repressurising aresol cans.
Here is one simple method (http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2818)

I think for this kind of spray weapon you would want a jet of liquid, so it would be best to use a can that was desined to spray that way - like a can of WD-40 with the little tube that plugs into the nozzel, Or some of those cans for killing wasps outdoors - but that does make it a biggish weapon - not really something to carry around for defence - but the idea could be scaled down.

I wonder how adding some chilli extract would go - It should add a little more kick.

I'll have to remember to grab a big bag of pepper next time Im shopping and give it a try myself.
FS

[Chade]

Well, it took my mate a few attempts to actually hit me in the eyes, but this is completely harmless to the skin. It's even edible. You could (and I have) put it on your chips. The only effect it has is on your eyes, so your aim has to be good enough with whatever delivery system you use. For my rather rubbish delivery system, I'd have to be within 20 feet to hit a target, so I wouldn't want to have to use this against an attacking animal, except for over my shoulder as I was running away. I don't really fancy the idea of testing this stuff on animals, so I've only tried it on me.
Adding cayenne pepper extract (capsaicin) means that you have the same, very small, fatality risk, as it will once again become a respiratory irritant, and a skin irritant. It will make it more powerful, but also turn it into a more conventional pepper spray.
One thing my use of container made me think of, is how this spray would compare to something like plain lemon juice, but I didn't try that out.
I'm sure there are a variety of natural, easy to acquire irritants. It's just a matter of finding out what works best. If I was to try this again (although I've now got a jar full of this first batch) I'd try using the alcohol to extract the piperine from the pepper instead of water. I think that would improve it a bit. Maybe if the added alcohol has been steeped in pepper as well as the water, that may be of more use.
Also I've dried some food colouring to a thick paste to concentrate it, so the next batch should be a briliant red, rather than the more normal red wash. My first batch looks rather like a watery blood sample, sitting in the jar.

And thanks for the link to that post. That's perfect. I'm reading through the whole forum at the mo, one section at a time, but it takes a while. I've seen (in the UK) sprays that shoot a bright red foam into someones face, to disorient and identify the attacker. It seems a travesty to destroy one to make a milder self defence weapon, but the cans are aerosol jets designed to slip into a pocket. Could be ideal.

[Ahriman]

Just wondering, how important is it to the final mixture to soak the black pepper in water for 24-48 hours? We made some spray the other day just by putting the proper amount of black pepper straight into the mixture, and it still burns like hell. Just wondered if the soaking makes the final solution stronger or something.

[Scientist]

Just some advice about the use of pepper spray:
If you spray at your opponent draw an 'S' with your hand holding the pepper spray.
This way a much bigger area is covered and it's much more likely to have some effect.

[Chade]

OK, for those who want to try this, don't bother with soaking the pepper for days, as all the irritants (probably piperine, as well as a few others) will be far more soluble in the alcohol that will already be used in the solution. I'd say add the pepper to the alcohol and let it stand for about an hour before filtering.

Ahriman, did you remove the pepper by filtering before you used the spray, because if not, it will be as powerful as the soaked mix as the pepper itself will do the irritating. The idea is to remove the solid pepper whilst leaving the irritants so it doesn't clog your delivery system.

My reply to the self defence thread made me have a good long think about exactly how I'd react in a troublesome situation, and I've decided to abandon this spray as a self defence weapon. I can't see it serves any useful purpose that couldn't be served better by something else. I'm fairly sure you could get done for carrying or using a spray like this, and I've replaced it with a pocket full of sand. No legal worries, but can blind an attacker for a few seconds. If I tried to use this spray as an aerosol, I know I'd fumble it, drop it, or spray it in totally the wrong direction. I'm thinking about the situations where you usually don't have much time to think, and you naturally tend to panic.

If I'm going to kill my attacker, I'll be using something a damn sight more effective than pepper spray. The only use for this spray is if you're following it up with a roadrunner act, and I'm aiming to avoid any situations that require me to run. I don't plan on leaving people around who are pissed at me, especially by annoying them in a way that will leave them feeling perfectly fine in just ten minutes.