megalomania
May 25th, 2003, 04:36 PM
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 03-26-2001 07:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As some of you may know, sodium hydroxide is a fairly useful and fun chemical, for it is used for the production of hydrgen gas and is suitable for pressure bottle applications. I have always *heard about* people using a cheap store brand drain unclogger for caustic soda. It works very well as it reacts with Alumninumfoil within 45 seconds to produce loads of gas. Then i *heard about* someone trying Brand Name Drano. It didnt react with the Aluminum foil, The drano was a gooey oozy type liquid and the cheap brand was like water The ingredients were basically the same.. they both contained sodium hydroxide...(but the cheap brand called it caustic soda), sodium hypochlorite, and sodium silicate, the only exception was the Drano contained "Surfactants", what are surfactants and how would they effect the drano and most importanly how could they be removed, is it possible to extract caustic soda?How?
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-26-2001 10:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used liquid plumr once, and it is basically the same thing as draino and it worked well. I don't know why yours didn't work.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-26-2001 10:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make preasure bombs with Caustic Soda. I 13 year old boy will never see Again because you one.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 03-27-2001 12:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
caustic soda as a liquid?...
in OZ, its a powder, and you mix it with water yourelf...even draino is a powder
i don't why people always flip out when its suggested to use HCI+al or caustic soda+al to make a pressure bomb
XXX+al is a slowwer reaction then water and dry ice, people always seem to say that using acid in pressure bombs is to dangerous
all you have to do is squeeze the air out of the bottle before you put the alfoil in...it gives you atleast 20seconds before it can fill the bottle with gas...
the only reason people get hurt when making stuff like this with acid,
is because there retards. thats about it, if your careful, and think about what your doing before you do it, nothing goes wrong.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier i always made pressure bottle explosives.
They can be dangerous for the eyes(Acid/Other chemicals) or for your body (If you make them with a glass botle)
But you can do some things to make them safer like: Making them with plastic bottles(No shrapnel)
Putt al the ingredients inside the bottle and watch how long it wil take before you see a reaction,since they only explode with a cap on it this is safe.
Make shure there is enough distance and if the bomb will not go off don`t walk to it to take a look because it can be your last look ;( ,,When i make them it whas normall that i have to wait 15 minutes before they explode.
And the thing like Mick said: "All you have to do is squeeze the air out of the bottle before you put the alfoil in"
Can be used to make them safer but if you make one with al+hcl there must be more than enough delay before it will explode.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Dracul
Frequent Poster
Posts: 73
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 09:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surfactants are chemicals that are like detergent or soap, they help hydrophobic substances become suspended in water and help water stick to surfaces which it normally wouldn't be able to, things like oily or waxy for example. Sodium hydroxide and caustic soda are two names for the same thing.
------------------
"By the power of Grayskull, I HAVE THE POWER!" He-man
Check this out www.stileproject.com
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 02:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason they are so dangerous especially with Bases is because bases attack protein directly; where acid will break it down over time.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I once made a pressure bottle explosive out of a 20 oz soda bottle and a AN/newpaper smoke bomb. It went off loud as hell because I thought it would take longer. Just as I chucked it it blew up and shot 30 feet. My ears were ringing. Just as I did it my mom rolled up. Lucky for me she didn't notice. Just be smart and don't use glass. I like this pressure bottle better because it uses very little AN and it is loud and if you used acid or base/Al you would be wasting more money because of the amount of liquid you use.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isn't there some way to change NaOH in to elemental Na?
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
electrolysis? I'm probably talking shit so ignore me.
I once got half a bottle of 20% NaOH all over my face. My first reaction was SHIT!! And then I ran to the sink and poured water all over my face like hell, for about half an hour. I was scared SO MUCH it was unbelievable.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 04:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It'd probably work like with NaCl, melt it and electrolyse the molten salt.
I once got solid pure NaOH on the inside of my lip, that burned like a bitch! (After rinsing, I wondered if neutralising the wound help relieve the pain, so I squirted some lemon juice on it - I jumped about 3ft straight up)
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How much did youget on your lip. Yeah, MP of NaCl is like 800 deg. C. When molten if you electrolize it NA will form on negative terminal, Cl2 at poitive. Cl2 floats away, your negative terminal is electroplated w/ Na. It works when the NaCl is aqueous, but the Na formed reacts w/ H2O to produce NaOH
[This message has been edited by firebreether (edited March 27, 2001).]
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elemental sodium was originally discovered when a block of fused sodium hydroxide was placed on a metal plate, a small puddle of mercury poured into a hollow scooped in the NaOH, and a current passed through the mercury and the sodium.
I don't remember the polarity, and the hydroxide was moistened with a few drops of water where the mercury contacted it.
When the mercury hardened from having amalgamated with the sodium, the alloy was placed in a metal still and the mercury distilled off, leaving behind the pure metallic sodium.
Uncle Fester details in his meth book how to use a cast iron pan and a battery charger. Don't know how reliable that would be.
I'd use the mercury method because the free sodium is never exposed to the air or heat.
You can also use a wet cell with a mercury electrode at the bottom of a glass jar with a concentrated solution of lye on top.
And why on earth does anyone bother with pressure bangs? (Can't bring myself to call them bombs) They're weak, messy, illegal, and worst of all...KEWL!
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may try the molten salt one, I dont wanna mess with mercury, now I know all of you are gonna say "ther isn't much danger it cant get absorbed through your skin" well that may be true but the fumes are dangerous and if they catch you with mercury nawadays they will take all your stuff and leave you homeless.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
also Hg + electric current= heat and heat + Hg= Hg fumes and Hg fumes + you= funny looking kids
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 07:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few days ago a man in a vancouver appartment heated some mercury and he died of the fumes. The whole appartment has been evacuated.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 09:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NBK2000- They may be KeWl but there fun as hell.
All the "DrAnO BomBs" I ever heard of used the powder, not the liquid, I hate em, you have to fear the explosion, and the fumes, and the liquid(which can spread fairly far).
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 10:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
buy some dry ice dammit! how much are your eyes really worth? or at least wear goggles
Ctrl_C
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 10:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hehe...I see nbk is knowledgeable in meth synthesis. btw, uncle fester has largely been abandoned by meth chemists.
what's the big use of sodium all of the sudden? I can prolly order some from my school or otherwise ste....errr.....borrow some indefinitely.
-Colza-
New Member
Posts: 19
From: New Zealand
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-06-2001 05:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My friend and I were having a discussion with a science teacher at school about this the other day. Electrolising molten Salt to get sodium and chlorine is possible but Salt melts at 804 degrees celcius but it vaporises very soon after. You have to have a very accurate and constant heat source if you want to get this to work.
------------------
Fear no more the lightning-flash,
Nor the all-dreaded thunder stone;
Fear not slander, censure rash;
Thou hast finish'd joy and moan;
All lovers young, all lovers must
Consign to thee, and come to dust.
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-07-2001 02:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NaOH isn't the only thing that produce H2 when reacts with Al.
Ca(OH)2 will do.
There's also a process that let you make
pure NaOH with caustic lime and sodium carbonate.
Ca(OH)2 + Na2CO3 -> 2NaOH + CaCO3.
CaCO3, a solid, settles down at the bottom.
Dry up the filtered solution, here's your NaOH.
I bought mine in pure solid form in a grocery
store. Check for the word "lye" on the label.
Tim2133
New Member
Posts: 14
From: Odessa, Tx, USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-08-2001 09:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all if you want to perform accurate and safe experiments you can purchase pure sodium hydroxide in powder or flake form from specialized plumbing stores. I believe the brand is Thrift. Anyway if you want to produce pure Sodium from sodium hydroxide you need to melt the solid down. Then use a transformer(like from a toy train) to decompose it. Be careful it tends to sputter out hydrogen gas that sprays out molten sodium hydroxide. After the liquid is gone, you should only have sodium left in the container. Also make sure that hydrogen gas doesn't build up anywhere, the bubbles can ignite.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 03-26-2001 07:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As some of you may know, sodium hydroxide is a fairly useful and fun chemical, for it is used for the production of hydrgen gas and is suitable for pressure bottle applications. I have always *heard about* people using a cheap store brand drain unclogger for caustic soda. It works very well as it reacts with Alumninumfoil within 45 seconds to produce loads of gas. Then i *heard about* someone trying Brand Name Drano. It didnt react with the Aluminum foil, The drano was a gooey oozy type liquid and the cheap brand was like water The ingredients were basically the same.. they both contained sodium hydroxide...(but the cheap brand called it caustic soda), sodium hypochlorite, and sodium silicate, the only exception was the Drano contained "Surfactants", what are surfactants and how would they effect the drano and most importanly how could they be removed, is it possible to extract caustic soda?How?
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-26-2001 10:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used liquid plumr once, and it is basically the same thing as draino and it worked well. I don't know why yours didn't work.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-26-2001 10:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't make preasure bombs with Caustic Soda. I 13 year old boy will never see Again because you one.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 03-27-2001 12:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
caustic soda as a liquid?...
in OZ, its a powder, and you mix it with water yourelf...even draino is a powder
i don't why people always flip out when its suggested to use HCI+al or caustic soda+al to make a pressure bomb
XXX+al is a slowwer reaction then water and dry ice, people always seem to say that using acid in pressure bombs is to dangerous
all you have to do is squeeze the air out of the bottle before you put the alfoil in...it gives you atleast 20seconds before it can fill the bottle with gas...
the only reason people get hurt when making stuff like this with acid,
is because there retards. thats about it, if your careful, and think about what your doing before you do it, nothing goes wrong.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier i always made pressure bottle explosives.
They can be dangerous for the eyes(Acid/Other chemicals) or for your body (If you make them with a glass botle)
But you can do some things to make them safer like: Making them with plastic bottles(No shrapnel)
Putt al the ingredients inside the bottle and watch how long it wil take before you see a reaction,since they only explode with a cap on it this is safe.
Make shure there is enough distance and if the bomb will not go off don`t walk to it to take a look because it can be your last look ;( ,,When i make them it whas normall that i have to wait 15 minutes before they explode.
And the thing like Mick said: "All you have to do is squeeze the air out of the bottle before you put the alfoil in"
Can be used to make them safer but if you make one with al+hcl there must be more than enough delay before it will explode.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Dracul
Frequent Poster
Posts: 73
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 09:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surfactants are chemicals that are like detergent or soap, they help hydrophobic substances become suspended in water and help water stick to surfaces which it normally wouldn't be able to, things like oily or waxy for example. Sodium hydroxide and caustic soda are two names for the same thing.
------------------
"By the power of Grayskull, I HAVE THE POWER!" He-man
Check this out www.stileproject.com
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 02:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason they are so dangerous especially with Bases is because bases attack protein directly; where acid will break it down over time.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I once made a pressure bottle explosive out of a 20 oz soda bottle and a AN/newpaper smoke bomb. It went off loud as hell because I thought it would take longer. Just as I chucked it it blew up and shot 30 feet. My ears were ringing. Just as I did it my mom rolled up. Lucky for me she didn't notice. Just be smart and don't use glass. I like this pressure bottle better because it uses very little AN and it is loud and if you used acid or base/Al you would be wasting more money because of the amount of liquid you use.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
isn't there some way to change NaOH in to elemental Na?
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 03-27-2001 03:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
electrolysis? I'm probably talking shit so ignore me.
I once got half a bottle of 20% NaOH all over my face. My first reaction was SHIT!! And then I ran to the sink and poured water all over my face like hell, for about half an hour. I was scared SO MUCH it was unbelievable.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 04:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It'd probably work like with NaCl, melt it and electrolyse the molten salt.
I once got solid pure NaOH on the inside of my lip, that burned like a bitch! (After rinsing, I wondered if neutralising the wound help relieve the pain, so I squirted some lemon juice on it - I jumped about 3ft straight up)
firebreether
Frequent Poster
Posts: 110
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How much did youget on your lip. Yeah, MP of NaCl is like 800 deg. C. When molten if you electrolize it NA will form on negative terminal, Cl2 at poitive. Cl2 floats away, your negative terminal is electroplated w/ Na. It works when the NaCl is aqueous, but the Na formed reacts w/ H2O to produce NaOH
[This message has been edited by firebreether (edited March 27, 2001).]
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elemental sodium was originally discovered when a block of fused sodium hydroxide was placed on a metal plate, a small puddle of mercury poured into a hollow scooped in the NaOH, and a current passed through the mercury and the sodium.
I don't remember the polarity, and the hydroxide was moistened with a few drops of water where the mercury contacted it.
When the mercury hardened from having amalgamated with the sodium, the alloy was placed in a metal still and the mercury distilled off, leaving behind the pure metallic sodium.
Uncle Fester details in his meth book how to use a cast iron pan and a battery charger. Don't know how reliable that would be.
I'd use the mercury method because the free sodium is never exposed to the air or heat.
You can also use a wet cell with a mercury electrode at the bottom of a glass jar with a concentrated solution of lye on top.
And why on earth does anyone bother with pressure bangs? (Can't bring myself to call them bombs) They're weak, messy, illegal, and worst of all...KEWL!
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may try the molten salt one, I dont wanna mess with mercury, now I know all of you are gonna say "ther isn't much danger it cant get absorbed through your skin" well that may be true but the fumes are dangerous and if they catch you with mercury nawadays they will take all your stuff and leave you homeless.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
also Hg + electric current= heat and heat + Hg= Hg fumes and Hg fumes + you= funny looking kids
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 07:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A few days ago a man in a vancouver appartment heated some mercury and he died of the fumes. The whole appartment has been evacuated.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 09:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NBK2000- They may be KeWl but there fun as hell.
All the "DrAnO BomBs" I ever heard of used the powder, not the liquid, I hate em, you have to fear the explosion, and the fumes, and the liquid(which can spread fairly far).
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-27-2001 10:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
buy some dry ice dammit! how much are your eyes really worth? or at least wear goggles
Ctrl_C
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 03-27-2001 10:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hehe...I see nbk is knowledgeable in meth synthesis. btw, uncle fester has largely been abandoned by meth chemists.
what's the big use of sodium all of the sudden? I can prolly order some from my school or otherwise ste....errr.....borrow some indefinitely.
-Colza-
New Member
Posts: 19
From: New Zealand
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-06-2001 05:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My friend and I were having a discussion with a science teacher at school about this the other day. Electrolising molten Salt to get sodium and chlorine is possible but Salt melts at 804 degrees celcius but it vaporises very soon after. You have to have a very accurate and constant heat source if you want to get this to work.
------------------
Fear no more the lightning-flash,
Nor the all-dreaded thunder stone;
Fear not slander, censure rash;
Thou hast finish'd joy and moan;
All lovers young, all lovers must
Consign to thee, and come to dust.
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 04-07-2001 02:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NaOH isn't the only thing that produce H2 when reacts with Al.
Ca(OH)2 will do.
There's also a process that let you make
pure NaOH with caustic lime and sodium carbonate.
Ca(OH)2 + Na2CO3 -> 2NaOH + CaCO3.
CaCO3, a solid, settles down at the bottom.
Dry up the filtered solution, here's your NaOH.
I bought mine in pure solid form in a grocery
store. Check for the word "lye" on the label.
Tim2133
New Member
Posts: 14
From: Odessa, Tx, USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-08-2001 09:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all if you want to perform accurate and safe experiments you can purchase pure sodium hydroxide in powder or flake form from specialized plumbing stores. I believe the brand is Thrift. Anyway if you want to produce pure Sodium from sodium hydroxide you need to melt the solid down. Then use a transformer(like from a toy train) to decompose it. Be careful it tends to sputter out hydrogen gas that sprays out molten sodium hydroxide. After the liquid is gone, you should only have sodium left in the container. Also make sure that hydrogen gas doesn't build up anywhere, the bubbles can ignite.