Ways to mislead/stop police dogs - Archive File

[megalomania]

DarkAngel
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Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 08:50 AM
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Hello i whas looking on the site that Sofa king posted about the .22 zippo gun and i saw a file about misleading police dogs,
(It looks pretty ke\/\/l but i need to know it anyway)
They sayd: "Pouring good
strong household amonia on the ground in your tracks ruining their nose
for a couple of hours"

Is this true and are there more thing's you can do?

I know that if you snif Ether you will feel your sell dizzy,If you throw enough of this on the ground would the dog feel dizzyness and ruined it`s brains for a view second's/minutes?

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BoB-
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Posts: 679
From:
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posted 04-23-2001 09:18 AM
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Yeah if the dog sniffed the ether it would make him "high", but how would you get him to smell it? Maybe pour it near a scrap of your shirt, or somewhere else on your escape path where your scent is strongest.
My dog once drank half a beer before I caught him, man he was pretty useless that night, he rarely left the floor.

Keep in mind that doggies weigh much less than humans, the dose of anything to get a human high is liable to kill a dog, they take a K-9's death fairly seriously.



Predator
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Posts: 141
From: Unknown
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 01:52 PM
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Kind of like Hansel and Gretel and their bread crumbs...
Why on earth would you want to leave a trail leading to where you are



DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 03:30 PM
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Yes predator i got your point but what if it works you can pour it a view times on some spot`s and because of the strong Amonium hydroxide smell it can maybe ruine the dogs nose for a short time.(I don`t know how long,or if it works)
And your running away from the cops.

And what is the best weapon to use against a police dog im thinking about pepper spray, Maybe others?

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DarkAngel

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shady mutha
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Posts: 149
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 05:23 PM
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According to the book 'fugitive' by paladin press the bloke suggests instead of trying to defeat the dog try to defeat the handler.


Maddoc
Moderator
Posts: 537
From: Dizneland
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 05:25 PM
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I find a .32 to the brain works well on most poochies
Actually, I think I saw a file around on confusing dogs? Anyone remember it?


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Whoa, where my fingers?



Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 07:36 PM
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I think I know the one you mean, it had stuff about doubling back, going round in circles and zig-zagging across a river to confuse the dog.


Mad Dog
New Member
Posts: 32
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-23-2001 08:54 PM
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Very often they combine dogs and tracers so don’t forget to fuck up your tracs so both dog and tracer are confused.
By the way I have a book on the subject of dog evasion "The SAS Escape, Evasion and Survival Manual" these book covers the subject of evasion of dogs and I'll be happy to scan it fore forum members interested in the subject ore fore the forum library.


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endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-23-2001 10:18 PM
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ether is commonly used as a drug and is used in drug synthesis. Some police dogs are trained to recognize it, a dogs sense of smell has something along the line of 60% more sensitivity. So the dog what smell the ether...Whatever else from far away enough that it wouldnt be effected before it located the ether. I heard of a way to transport marijuana in a 3 layered bad, 1 large bag, a medium bag, and a small bag, The first bag... Black Pepper, the second bag water, and the third bag marijuana, i heard the pepper temporarily disables or lowers the dogs sense of smell, and the water because it has hard to smells to penetrate a layer of water.


nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 03:58 AM
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Posted this before but couldn't find it so here it is again.


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DaRkDwArF
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Posts: 258
From: Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 05:54 AM
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http://www.ghilliesuits.com/products.htm
The odour defeaters look ok, but never believe a label, you'd have to test it before trying to use it for E&E and you'd want it to last several hours, if not 2 or 3 days


sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-24-2001 08:15 PM
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If i get a chance i will scan the book "SAS's guide to escape and evasions."


Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 200
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 04-24-2001 09:57 PM
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I would suggest fresh cayenne pepper.
It burns like hell in nose or eyes.
Ammonia isn´t good here. It kills your own nose too.



-A-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 100
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 02:05 AM
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I agree with jumala, also, ammonia would evaporate too fast. As said before pepper is a good way to mislead dogs.


DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 08:06 AM
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Just to let you guys know,
I saw ones on TV that a murderer killd 2 people in there own house and neighbours smelled a strong amonia smell when they walked close by there door,
So they calld the police,When the cops arrived they couldn`t get into the house because the amonia smell whas to strong,So they calld the fire brigade and they came and opend all the doors and windows and blew all the amonia gas away with there big ventillators,And when the detective`s came to search evidence they couldn`t find anything because the fire brigade blewd out all the evidence away
Yes peper can work very good i think,
but when the police is after you (with dogs)and you sprinkel amonia on places there is enough time before it will evaporate,

Maybe alot of little balls (I have now idea at the moment what/which)that have a strong food smell(Fish,meat)can be thrown away and the dog will smell them and will maybe walk to the wrong place?

------------------
DarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
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Digital-Demon
New Member
Posts: 38
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-27-2001 01:14 PM
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Goto this Forum, has some interesting ideas
http://pub1.ezboard.com/fhoodlumstrackingtrailingandpathfinding

[john_smith]

From http://trackerarchive.tripod.com/ (lots of other good info there also, give it a look).

Myths About Evading Dogs

Hiding under water and breathing through a reed or tube. The best you can hope for is that the dogs will simply track you to the water’s edge and become confused. However, dog handlers and other trackers accompany dogs. You have to he deep enough so that you can’t be seen by the handlers (or by the dog itself). But if you are this deep you won’t he able to breathe through a tube for very long. Furthermore, dogs have been known to locate bodies that are underwater.

Sprinkling pepper or other irritant on the ground to “burn out” the dog’s nose as it follows your scent. This has no effect on an air tracker dog and almost no effect on a ground tracker, The dog will detect pepper and other like scents long before it has the opportunity to snort any up its nose. In fact, if the dog does snort a little pepper it will likely just make the dog sneeze, thereby cleaning out its nose and letting it follow your scent more easily. An extremely heavy concentration of pepper on the ground might keep the dog from finding your scent directly under tile pepper, but any amount of pepper you could reasonably expect to carry with you simply won’t faze the dog.

Covering yourself in manure or excrement. This does little more than make you smell like a human covered in excrement to the dog. Your human scent is still present and is not significantly masked by the odor of excrement.

Tying plastic trash bags around your feet and legs to avoid leaving any scent. The only really effective way to cause a dog to lose your scent is to get off the ground in a car, on a bicycle, or in a boat. You must then travel a significant distance so that the dog cannot simply reacquire your scent on the ground a few hundred yards away.

[Al Nobel]

Curry is a good choice if you have drugs (especially Marihuana) at home.Police dogs cant differenciate between the curry smell and Cannabis.

[rooster]

someone i know put mary jane/hash in oranges home from africa. He said the dogs wouldn't be able to smell it. However, he has diplomatic immunity, so they can't check him anyway...

Is this just bullshit?

[Jhonbus]

Smuggling marijuana in oranges sounds dubious to me. Something like marijuana is so strong-smelling that I'm pretty sure *I* could smell it through an orange. Also the prescence of a very strong but still legal odour at customs is going to make the officers extremely suspicious.

I should think the best ways to hide from a dog are swimming down a river or riding a bike/car for a long distance like John_smith said. Even if you do "burn out" the dogs nose, can't they just get another dog?

[priapo]

As Johnbus has said, whenever the dog or the officers find something too odourfull or with an intense chemical odour they make an intensive exam of it. In fact one of the best ways of misleading a dog is spreading the odour not trying to camuflate it.

[Jhonbus]

Indeed. In fact I've heard that a good way to smuggle personal amounts of weed back to the UK from holland on the car ferry is to have someone smoking a spliff in the passenger seat. They're not going to arrest you for that, and there's no way sniffer dogs are going to be able to find any hidden in your headrest if the whole car stinks. There is the matter of the customs back at home though...

[john_smith]

A couple of more quotes from the link above:
f. When you first arrive in your area of operations, it is best to move initially in a direction that is 90 to 170 degrees away from your objective. Carry into the area, in a plastic bag, an object that does not belong to any of the team members. Once you are on the ground, drop this item of clothing or fragment of cloth out of the bag and leave it on your back trail as you first start moving. This can confuse a dog long enough to give you more of a head start. Also, if dogs are brought in late, your scent will be very faint, while this scent will still be strong.


I like this one:D

i. If dogs are very close behind you, moving through water does not confuse them, as your scent will hang in the air above the water. Moving through water will only slow you down. Also, throwing CS powder to your rear or using blood/spice mixtures or any other concoctions that you think will prevent a dog from smelling your scent will not be effective on a trained tracker dog; at the first sign of the substance he will avoid the area. Even if the dog were to smell these substances, they react differently then humans. This may actually clear the dogs sinuses and nose for him due to the hard sneeze.




1. If a tracker dog is on your trail, do not run, as this will cause your scent to become stronger. By running and leaving a stronger scent you are allowing the dog an easier trail to follow and less work. Some disagree and say to run the dog into the ground. You must balance the running the dog into the ground and the dog running you into the ground due to heavy scent left behind. You may attempt to wear out the dog handler and confuse the dog, but always be on the lookout for a good ambush site that you can fishhook into. If it becomes necessary to ambush the tracking party, fishhook into the ambush site and you would normally attempt to wound the handler, NOT the dog.


From www.policek9.com:
In this case, I could easily have tracked all night without ever catching up to the suspects. With the lead time they had, and the time it takes the dog to work the track at his pace as well as the time involved in getting the dog and handler over various obstacles, all the suspects had to do to evade capture was to keep moving at a steady pace. Not necessarily a fast pace, just a steady pace. It was the containment team that picked this suspect up, combined with the efforts of the K9 team, this incident had a very successful conclusion. But that conclusion only came after a dedicated effort at containment by patrol members. Without the patrol officers doing their job I could likely have never caught up to the suspects.
When doing perimeter containment remember that your purpose is to force the suspects to "go to ground", making them hide to avoid detection. To that end, maintain a high visibility. Take up an intersection location where you can observe in two or three different directions at the same time. Illuminate as much of the area as you can. Turn on all your overhead emergency lights and make it well known that you are there. A suspect that is coming into your area will often see the emergency lights and spotlights and instead of breaking out in the open to cross the street, will choose to hide in the hopes of not being seen. This allows your dog team the best opportunity for a capture
Also, a source I can't seem to find now states that a dog can't track on asphalt unless it's moist, since it irritates the dog's nose.

[Kid Orgo]

What about anise oil?

I heard something somewhere about that making dogs go nuts.

[yt2095]

Kid Orgo,

you beat me to it :) , yes Aniseed balls work in a similar way as Catnip does to cats :)
certainly not a good idea to put your "stash" into it tho as it`ll have the opposite effect, but great if you wanted to get on Americas Dumbest Criminals :)
i can only imagine that the oil would be so much more efficient than the balls, providing you didn`t get any on you, and could find a way to deliver it if you were on the run etc...
i could only imagine that even used as a distraction to mislead a dog that was looking for your "stash" would only serve to incriminate you further tho? else why do it if you have nothing to hide? :)
but running through the woods with a bag of aniseed balls being scatered every few yards certainly couldn`t hurt :)

[Gatyo]

I think by having 10-15 ultrasonic gadjets will slow down or eaven stop the dogs. (http://www.uscav.com/prodinfo/images/9539.jpg) They can be bought for protection against animals especially dogs. The dog must be deaf in order to pass trough the area and there's no chance of a deaf dog chasing you.

[Dr. Chaos]

Elevation is a good counter measure. When I worked at a shipyard, the sailors would stash their goods up as high as possible in the ship's machinery spaces, in the maze of pipes and wiring. Even if they detected the smell, they could not get close enough to "alert" the handler.

[thiol]

A dog's sense of smell is not comparable to a human's at all. While you might not smell marijuana if you spray a bunch of lavender air freshener around, a trained drug dog will just smell that: lavender and weed. Any myths of certain smells to cover up that of what a dog is trained to smell is very unlikely, as they can smell what they're looking for regardless of what odor is masking it.

The only reliable way would be to make sure no particles are in the air at all, maybe by vacuum sealing it in a bag and then washing the bag in a solvent (depending on what you're trying to hide).

[IronMongrel]

I liked this bit too



When you first arrive in your area of operations, it is best to move initially in a direction that is 90 to 170 degrees away from your objective. Carry into the area, in a plastic bag, an object that does not belong to any of the team members. Once you are on the ground, drop this item of clothing or fragment of cloth out of the bag and leave it on your back trail as you first start moving. This can confuse a dog long enough to give you more of a head start. Also, if dogs are brought in late, your scent will be very faint, while this scent will still be strong.


But further to that, if you anticipate that you may be tracked by dogs after some event it might be wise to prepare the target area in a more thorough manner, for instance you might urinate on a peice of your sweatyist work wear and drag it about in directions you wont try to escape from, thus creating false trails using your own body fluids (nice).

Although I wouldnt recomend leaving such a large peice of DNA evidence in situ afterwards.

In the UK now most hunting on horseback is done like this, they drag a rag with some kind of fox pheromone sprayed on it accross the fields and the dogs quite happily track this.

A drag trail would certainly leave alot more of your smell than a hopefully light foot fall.

I think leaving very small fragments of tissue that has your scent might be feasible.

A bit like an old fasioned paper chase.

I dont think dogs always track footfall anyway, so if you anticipate being chased by a good nose dog immidiatly,you need to stay down wind of the dog at all times or as much as you can.

The difficuly is the wind tends to vortice round so putting distance between yourself and the dog is imperative in my view.

Other things I'd say where important, as someone else said, keep a steady pace as much as you can, dont thrash through undergrowth if you can help it, try not to disturb your surroundings too much if on soft, stoney, or dead wood littered ground.

Dry hard surfaces are good, soft damp ones are bad, with regard to changing their smell after a foot fall, not to mention holding your scent.

I think when it comes to being chased by dog/s good reconnaissance is the key to escape.

Combine a series of obstacle that are hard for a dog and a man to negotiate, but that a man on his own can manage, even if that means hiding old/home made ladders to scale things or ropes to descend them. Be creative.

With regard to anise or aniseed I can attest that neither of my dogs are the slightest bit interested in it, but they both really like hot currys (strange).

But on this vein, a number of old friends of mine where involved in sabotaging fox hunts for a long time, something they used to make and swear by was a sort of garlic brew, basicly you take a two litre pop/soda bottle almost fill it with water add lots of fresh mashed or finely chopped garlic and some Marmite (yeast extract) when this stuff ferments and rots down it really stinks bad. This (filtered) concoction was then loaded into pump up plant sprayers and sprayed accross likely fox runs in an attempt to distract the hounds.

In all honesty I'm not sure how well this works and as Thiol points out


A dog's sense of smell is not comparable to a human's at all. While you might not smell marijuana if you spray a bunch of lavender air freshener around, a trained drug dog will just smell that: lavender and weed.


Dogs definitly see the world as a world of smells, they use there eyes just to finish the job or so as not to bump into things near by, but like any being using its senses, i think they can be given alot of useless and distracting information and thus lots of strong smelling substances pre sprayed over broad sweeps of your planned escape route may slow down the tracking process enough to give you the edge.

I have in the past been sniffed out by a large german sheppard, and I can say its very disconcerting when your crouching behind alot of boxes to come face to face with a really big dog.

In another vein, I often travel by train, and the police here regurlarly do sweeps of stations for drug dealers, stand next to exits with their super sniffer spanials, it worrys me since I almost always have some pot on me, and I hate the hassle of being hauled in for a blim of hash, but since I always have a dog with me, they just pull the dog back and I sail on through.

A friend of mine had several kilos of hashish on his coach (that he also lived on at the time) he kept the hashish in his ferrets cage, also on his coach (I can imagine what your thinking, and I agree) but, he got raided by the local drugs squad, and they brought a dog, and the dog didn't find the drugs, which just go's to show how much ferrets really do stink.

Ok, thats my first post.

Do i get banned now? =-) (If you continue to fail at capitalizing the letter I when referring to yourself, yes. :) NBK)

[Diabolique]

IronMongrel, someone I know - a PI that has connections worldwide - hid a copy of his business records from the police inside a large cage of ferrets. They couldn't get by the ferrets w/o being bit and clawed, so the cage went unsearched. The LEO's wanted to force him to give info on their cases, but w/o any quid pro quo as the Intel agencies did. By confiscating his records, they hoped to threaten his business. His Federal contacts made the police back off.

I suspect that to stop a dog cold would require something quite strong in attacking the dog's sence of smell, such as a war gas. Lewisite is easily made, but can be a double edged sword if you get careless with it.

[nbk2000]

Perhaps, rather than attempting to use an irritant for distracting the dogs, maybe a micronized anesthetic powder would be better?

Something like lidocaine, that the dogs would inhale while snorting around, that would numb their nasal nerves, thus making them unable to smell anything, without any obvious symptoms of irritation like OC would invoke.

[Diabolique]

Would lidocaine's cousin, cocaine, be effective at numbing a dog's nose? I must admit to total lack of knowledge of the effects of either substance, other than lidocaine's use in heart attack victims. Cocaine would be more readily available from one's street corner "pharmacist." I wonder what they do with dogs that fail their urine test?

Combine that with anise oil or seeds to attract the dog, allowing the lidocaine/cocaine to then numb their sense of smell.

[nbk2000]

I've bought lidocaine for $35/kilo not too many years ago.

How much do you think a kilo of coke would cost? :p

[Diabolique]

The key is availability. Cocaine is much more available to the public here than lidocaine. Twenty years ago, I was offered C-4 at $10 a pound, minimum order 20 tons (internaltional arms dealer who worked as a front to several alphabet agencies). Today, it is no longer available at any price in that quantity.

Lidocaine would be a much better choice, it is not considered to be a drug of abuse, so being caught with it would go a lot easier on one. What about novocaine from a dentist's office?

[festergrump]

IIRC, last time I had some major dental work done (which was about 10 years ago) I asked the dentist how long it would take for the Novocaine to take effect and if he'd mind waiting just a little bit longer (since they never really wait quite long enough before they break out the drill and go medieval. OUCH!). His reply to me was they'd long since quit using Novocaine and were using Lidocaine instead... seems like you might have found another source for Lidocaine there, Diabolique, though I do remember it being extracted into a syringe from a tamper-proof medical grade glass vial and not mixed from a powder right there on the spot.

[mrtnira]

Three graphics (in two links) showing how not to leave a trail, and the method of circling back and then breaking the trail. All illustrations are Soviet period diagrams, and the text is in Russian.

http://i11.tinypic.com/49kahr5.jpg
http://i11.tinypic.com/2cn9zxz.jpg

A lot of people really do wonder, "How do they do that?" Military history, military science, and operational art are fascinating studies. How agents did it during the Second World War, and during the early Cold War is of interest. However, I don't (really, don't) recommend people do it for real.

[Ironhorse]

Ground white and cayenne pepper mixed with alum sprinkled inside the doorways and around in your house will ruin a dogs ability to smell .Dogs are able to track much better in moist conditions rather than dry.

Scent neutralizer for deer hunting sprayed on the outside of containers to hide the contents ,also help.

[InfernoMDM]

I dont know where in the hell some of you got your information about K9 units but you guys are nuts.

Almost nothing will maks a scent. If its strong enough to mask your scent a handler will smell it/dog wont go toward it. THe handler will move around the smell and pick you back up.

My first experince with a K9 was at 15. I was out in the woods and by some emaculate bad stroke of luck some ladies window broke out of her car and there were reports of gun shots. Well the gun shot I heard outside of the gated community I lived in at the time. I was out with my friend on a holiday chaseing deer. Unfortuantly 6-7 months before we had a sniper style shooting on a highway, much like the DC thing. This was years before any of the terror stuff.

Anyways a security guard passed by us and I ran back in the woods about 30 feet farther then my friend. In the end he got cuaght and they kept saying they were going to "sick my dog on you!" At this point I started moving. Well luckly that whole day and most of the night I had been all through the woods. My friend watched the dogs ears pin back and his head go in the brush. About an hour later the dog came back out and the handler said, "He's either gone or the dog is on fucking crack." My friend told me that the guys said the dog went all over the place. I assume tracking my daily activities in the woods.

Moral of the story? Don't try to outsmart the dogs nose you can't. Out smarth the handler. This is repeated in real manuals like the SAS book, experince, and even a few videos on Escape an Evasion.

Time + Distance = Security
Confusing the handler = Safety

Common mistakes:

Hiding in water wont stop you from being found. The dog will smell the oils from your body rising to the surface. Trust me it has happened before.

Asphalt - Are you fucking kidding me thats the dumbest thing I have ever heard a dog can track you over asphalt I have seen it several times.

Putting Spices chemicals down - Doesnt work the dog smells it coming and ill react so the handler knows whats going on and they will move around it much like a obstical picking your scent back up.

By the way the only known way to keep yourself from being easily smelled is by smoking yourself and covering your boddy in ashes. Unknown to humans fires are rather comman and naturally occuring just about everywhere from woods to cities. Dogs also smell fires alot. Its a very natural scent. The problem is you need time to burn things, certian plants work better then others(dont remember which ones sorry) and also you look terrible with ash all over you in the city. Ash also wears off. Its not fool proof but the dog will have a hell of alot harder time tracking you. Thats how the unibomber(insert name) was able to mask his trail in the national forest.

[defiant]

I used to be government and have seen dogs and their handlers being trained. There's good and bad.

As its an exceedingly rare event for me not to be carrying a firearm, if pursued there would be the allternative of shooting the dog and/or handler.

If a firearm is not on hand, and the dog was not attended by its armed master, think about breaking the dogs neck It isn't difficult. The primary attack dog is a German Shepard - which have power in their jaws but also have weak necks. Face the dog as it advances, grab the dog around the head firmly when its within reach, and snap its neck. If necessary offer your non-dominant arm to the hound - jamming it as far back in it's jaws as possible by grabbing the back of its head and pulling forward onto your arm. A dog can't do as much damage with your arm crammed back in its jaws, and affords you the the opportunity to snap the fuckers neck.

Carry the dog back to your lair (being as careful as possible not to leave tracks carrying the additional weight), and cook and eat the eat the hound. Dog is an excellent source of protein, and quite tasty if not overcooked.

[festergrump]

For what it's worth, I'm told many Army manuals state that circling wider and wider circles from the beginning track point then cutting back to the middle and venturing out in an obtuse angle will work wonders... Just be careful not to meet your tracker in the middle.

[defiant]

That may be, but still its not difficult to break a dog's neck or shoot its handler.

Food for thought in a society where law and honor has degenerated to the point of being meaningless.

[Major Havoc]

Here is some footgae of bloodhounds actually tracking people while using the tricks described in above posts. You get the picture pretty quick on what is effective and what isn't. Very interesting info. Could come in handy for certain people.


http://rapidshare.com/files/36816028/myth504.part1.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/36816580/myth504.part2.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/36817169/myth504.part3.rar

http://rapidshare.com/files/36817444/myth504.part4.rar

Password: chiqega

+++++++++++

From Myth Busters, Season 5, Episode 4
NBK