Wireless "Plasma" Taser

[jelly]

At the European Symposium on Non-Lethal Weapons, the german company Rheinmetall has shown a
video demonstration of a prototype of their "Plasma-Taser" ;)

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993749

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,268705,00.jpg

[Jakio]

I'm trying to find my notes about a company working on somthing better than this... see, UV lasers ionize oxygen, right? This company uses two UV lasers to create a conductive pathway in the air, completing a circuit at a rather long range... I'll post the link if I can find it :)

[nbk2000]

If the aerosol is dark, and assuming that it's not just the lighting, then that'd mean some sort of solids loading in the liquid. I've seen patents mention graphite and silver salts for use in electronic weapons.

Is the aerosol a cloud, or a stream? A stream would be most sensible, 'cause a cloud would have too many air gaps between droplets to allow for easy current transmission, unless they're actually making a "Kill-O-Watt" style TASER.

Jakio, UTFSE (Use The Fuckin' Search Engine). There's already several threads discussing the use of ionizing UV lasers, as well as URL's and patent links, all you have to do is find them. :)

[dave]

A wireless taser, hmmm. If they beefed one of these weapons up, it would be like the lightning weapon Cypher in the original matrix used to kill Dozer (it could have been Tank i don't quite remember their names).

++++++++++++++++++++++

Thanks for the incredibly informative post. :rolleyes:

NBK

[Jakio]

Jakio, UTFSE (Use The Fuckin' Search Engine). There's already several threads discussing the use of ionizing UV lasers, as well as URL's and patent links, all you have to do is find them.

Ahh, my bad... I actually tried not to make this mistake on my first post, and did search... but of course you are right, and there in a post about lasers is a link...

[jelly]

I don't have more information about this "plasma" taser.

But Rheinmetall is a reputable company and would not present a prototype of a weapon
if it would be just a joke.

They have developed the 120mm smoothbore gun of the best tanks in the world,
the american Abrams M1A2 and the german Leopard 2.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/abrams3.html

[Tuatara]

I've often thought these taser type weapons would be rather easy to defeat by simply wearing highly conductive clothing, like carbon fibre!

[McGuyver]

Why? You will probably get shocked worse. A human body is a deficiency of electrons, when a power source dumps a bunch of electrons into your body you get a shock. Decreasing the resistance of your skin would make the shock even worse. If you wore something conductive you would be making an easier path for the electrons to get into your body.

[nbk2000]

If the conductor was in direct contact with you, then you'd get shocked anyways. But, if the conductive cloth was on top of an insulator, than the current would take the path of least resistance through the conductor, rather than through you. :)

[Tuatara]

A human body is a deficiency of electrons,
Gets my vote for silly statement of the century.

Do you spend your whole life going around positively charged?:p

Current flows in loops. Fundamental physics. And before anyone says anything about ' static not flowing in loops', it does, its just that you haven't worked out where the other half of the loop is.

Insulator under conductor is probably the best option, but so long as the conductive clothing is a much better conductor than human skin (not difficult) it should still short out most of the taser current.

[Anthony]

If the taser shoots two electrodes then a conductor between them should work nicely. But, (and this is where my meagre electrical knowledge grows thin), I've had shocks from a taser when only in contact with one electrode.

Not sure how this works, something about forming a psuedo "capacitor" with the earth and the discharging/charging is what hurts?

In which case, would a conductive suit help any, unless it provided an easier route to earth than through any part of you?

Hopefully you'll be able to explain to me Tuatara, I'm fine understanding shocks as long as two conductors are involved... Likewise, I fail to see why you'd get a shock from touching the live connection on a mains socket only, unless you also had hold of a metal water pipe or were otherwise blatantly earthed:confused:

[nbk2000]

I "liberated" an insert in the latest copy of "Police" magazine from the TASER company, describing their new X-26 model, and have included the interesting bits in the attachment.

With AC, only one wire is "live", the others provide grounding only for convenience.

[nbk2000]

Here's the magazine article in ZIP'd PDF format.

Especially interesting is reference to a patent-pending technique of using constant current to reduce the power requirements for TASER's, while increasing effectiveness. :)

[McGuyver]

Tuatara, you didn't say anything about about an insulator, just conductive clothing. Also, there is no such thing as a positive charge with electricity, it's always a negative charge, it's just that one side is "hot" or a lot of negative electrons. The other side (ground) has very little negative electrons.

If you actually did this conductive clothing thing no part of your body could touch the conductive part. Also, you could have some part of the clothing touching the ground so if it was full of high voltage, it would go into the ground instead of jumping to you, hopefully:(

[Agent Blak]

I was under the impression that plasma behaved alot like Static... which from what I know Defies the majority of Insulators. Is this not true?

Plasma is Ionized Gas... Which means it is Electrically Charged right?

www.amazing1.com has some info on Plasma Tasers for sale.

[A-BOMB]

While this is not related to plasma tazers, it is tazerish. I remember seeing somewhere about a long range multi shot wired tazer that used 2 rolls of magnet wire and a clip of probes or whatever they call the projectiles. After each shot the wires are cut and a new set of probes is dropped into place, the projectiles have a "V" shaped slot in the rear, like the slot on the back of a hammer you use to pull nails out with the wires and pushed into the slot then fired with CO2 or HPA. So it seems this design is sdvantages over other tazer that have set amounts of wire in the cartidge, so with this unit you could hit people up close and people far away.

[nbk2000]

Read in a recent police magazine article that if one person has the energized wire, and another the ground wire, and they're touching (skin-to-skin), then they'll both get shocked.

Demonstrations of over a hundred people holding hands in a chain, with each end holding one of the wires, has resulted in everyone getting dropped! :eek:

Go to http://www.taser.com/pages/video/video.html for videos of the TASER in action.

I'm curious as to how much current the TASER wires can carry. Would they be sufficient to carry lethal amps from a charged capacitor or wall socket? Because, if they could, then it'd be easy to adapt the cartridges to make lethal electric booby-traps or use as ambush weapons.

[Marvin]

Why does it not surprise me the person in the thread with the weakest grasp of physics is the person that thinks 'McGuyver' is a good thing to call himself.

A positive charge in electronics is not just because it has less electrons than the other side. Matter starts off neutral, you remove electrons and those that remain nolonger cancel out the positive charge from the nuclei. So it has a real net positive charge.

The conductive suit would form a faraday cage around the person, so it wouldnt matter if on the inside you were touching it at multiple points.

The material of choice would probably what power line companies use for maintinance workers on live pylons. It looks like a grey fabrik jumpsuit, but its actually made entirly out of stainless steel fibres. You can buy stainless steel thread/wool, it looks/feels just like grey cotton, but it conducts very well.

[nbk2000]

You can buy steel chainmail suits from medieval re-enactor suppliers, the ones that supply the yobes who run around playing knight. :rolleyes:

[nbk2000]

There's now a 'wireless' TASER, in the form of a shotgun TASER slug (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/owwwww!/video-of-xrep-wireless-taser-shotgun-shocking-some-dude-276481.php).

http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2007/07/medium_763365287_e56d1d243a_o.jpg

[Jacks Complete]

And that's meant to be non-lethal? Surely it comes out at Mach 1+?

Close up, even with a reduced charge, that will kill or remove an eye. And with those fins, it's not going to go far.

I'll have to assume there is something clever going on with the ballistics at this point, otherwise it's a shotgun slug crossed with a cocktail umbrella.

Neat idea, I though of it a while back, but using a piezo crystal stack.


http://www.metacafe.com/watch/559847/smoke_ring_gun/ is rather neat, and could be adapted to fire plasma, perhaps.

[nbk2000]

300 FPS and a 100 foot range, according to the video.

There are other companies trying to develop similar stunners based on piezo impact, versus TASER electronics package.

[fanofboard]

SHOCKROUNDS (TM) working with the piezo effect, using Lead Zirconate and Titanate ceramic crystals.


http://199.236.65.54/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=34

Doesn´t seems to be under heavy construction.



What do you think how the TASER slug work?
What is the energy source? A capacitor? And what kind of?
How do they create the high voltage? On such a small space?

Questionmarks sold out! Please use: !
Do`h

[nbk2000]

If someone bothered to visit the link and watch the video, they'd have answered their own questions. :rolleyes:

[fanofboard]

If someone bothered had DSL, he`d have probably answered his questions. Does this sentence make sence! (bord note: there are still no questionmarks available, please try again later!)


Im currently running on 56k, very ancient

[Charles Owlen Picket]

The likelihood is that it is simply "primer powered" or darn close. It's obviously not made for real distance and would come with "practice" rounds to get the feel of the trajectory. Even a trap load might crush the projectile, I'm thinking. The body would need to be light weight (and w/ electronics) it would crush like a soda can.

However I've experimented with making quite a few different loads in an old H&R break-open and a 209 primer can get some push going if the seal is a commercial plastic wadding. 100 feet is very ample considering the usage. The "fins" don't really make sense to me either. They would just slow the thing down to a crawl or knock it off trajectory with the slightest crosswind. - Perhaps it's made to be used close to a mortar in that the arc of the trajectory is substantial (?) or the fins open much later in flight (?). I have pushed all sorts of things out of that old break-open and the ceiling seems to be about 2.5 oz as pressure sign gets going at that point (flattened primers, etc).

[nbk2000]

The fins give the projectile spin (for accuracy) in non-rifled shotguns, as well as decelerating it to non-lethal velocities.

[monkeyboy]

I'm curious as to how much current the TASER wires can carry. Would they be sufficient to carry lethal amps from a charged capacitor or wall socket? Because, if they could, then it'd be easy to adapt the cartridges to make lethal electric booby-traps or use as ambush weapons.
I do not remember how to do the math, but I'm pretty sure I read that the wires are 8 mills. Lethal shock for most people is in the 50-70 mA range.

[panzerkampfwagen]

If the target's survival is not your primary concern, there are a number of ways to direct an electrical current without wires or a projectile. The ideal method is using a flammable gas, pref. butane. Fire, being related to plasma, has strange interactions with arcing electricity, creating a directed ionized beam, much like a blooming laser, Except without the hassle with lasers. That and a beam of burning ionized butane with high-voltage electricity jumping in it presents a very small possibility of survival. It would be cheap, too.

[nbk2000]

I've thought of the possible use of a polymer foam, like Silly String, that is loaded with conductive material (silver powder) and shot out as a sticky string onto the target, which gets juiced.

I've seen foam sprayers that'll reach a good 30 feet.

[megalomania]

With a self primed and sealed can, which you can pump to a higher pressure, and the greater density obtained by adding a conductive metallic material, I bet the range could increased quite a bit more.

I wonder at what level of current the polymer material would burst into flames?

[ann]

Should have a few rounds in house by dec....will advise as to how they test out.:) Their is a smaller caliber version also in the works..its not well known so...shhhhh:D

http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/XREP.aspx