Traffic stops

[nbk2000]

It's inevitable that a criminal will be pulled over by the cops if he's on the road long enough. If you're clean, then this isn't a problem, since you can act like a good sheeple and be on your way.

But, if you're dirty (transporting drugs/wanted felon), then you're going to have to engage the pork, since being stopped will quickly result in arrest anyways.

So, with this in mind, how do you go about taking out the piggy who's stopped you?

In this scenario, you presumably have a competent crimey with you, and are being stopped by one pig. This is a common scenario when the pig doesn't have reason to suspect you of anything other than some petty traffic violation.

The important thing to remember about pigs is that they tend to call for more pork as backup, which is SOP.

So, when stopped by one that you intend to engage, you must act almost the second you stop, to catch piggy by surprise before his fellow swine have time to arrive on the scene to give him backup.

You're goal isn't so much to kill the pig, but rather to immobilize his vehicle, so that you can flee the scene and ditch the vehicle out of pork sight, before they have time to arrive in numbers looking for your ass.

To do this, you'll use a military tactic known as "Hammer and Anvil", the "anvil" being one person who fixes the piggies attention, while "hammer" swings around and takes out the vehicle.

http://nbk2000.freeyellow.com/Hammer-Anvil.jpg

Ideally, you'd catch the pork out of his vehicle before beginning your assault, to prevent him from taking cover in his vehicle, but you'll have to assume that piggy is waiting for backup.

In practice, both driver and passenger open their doors at the same time. Driver is armed with compact semi-auto rifle (CAR-15?) or carbine, passenger with shotgun (preferably SAIGA-12) loaded with shot-slugs or quadrangle shot (see NBK PDF).

The drivers (anvil) job is to engage the pig, so that piggy is forced to either engage driver or flee for cover, either one of which keeps him from stopping the passenger (hammer) who swings out (using vehicle as concealment) till he can see the pig-mobile. At this point, hammer proceeds to do a number of the engine compartment of pig-mobile, rendering the vehicle inoperable.

Anvil continues to engage piggy while hammer comes back to vehicle and drives it away by grabbing the wheel and stepping on the gas till driver can resume control.

From start to finish, the operation would take less than 30 seconds, immobilize the vehicle, and likely kill the cop, at acceptable personal risk to the felons.

Further tactics for solo felon and/or multiple cops are on the DVD.

I know this isn't about a weapon per se, but weapons without good tactics to use them with, are useless.

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by nbk2000
In this scenario, you presumably have a competent crimey with you, and are being stopped by one pig. This is a common scenario when the pig doesn't have reason to suspect you of anything other than some petty traffic violation.

Instead of violence and shooting, Is not it better to just tell the cop that a bad criminal (your companion) threatened you and forced you into helping him in the transportation of drugs (if there is some on the car) or just say that he kidnaped you? Since he is a competent crimey, he should be well know, and as you said, there is no reason for the cop to suspect you. This way you avoid risking your self and would have to use weapons and tactics only as a last resource.

Forgive me if I said any shit... :confused:

[nbk2000]

It's not wish to rat a guy off when he's got a gun...is sitting next to you...and in front of his face. :rolleyes:

Besides, your crimey might do the same thing to you first, so it's best to make it impossible for him to turn on you, by involving him in a homicide (or attempted anyways) on a cop. Then, the BEST he could hope for would be life without parole, as a conspirator. :)

[GibboNet]

Are they lego men in your picture NBK ? :p

I like the idea, but surely, even if this was a quick, practised response, the time it would take to practice would not be worth it, unless of course you're doing something REALLY high profile, which I would then assume you had more at you disposal than two guys and hand weapons.

The guy next to you, well, if he wasn't entirely trusted in the first place, he shouldn't be in the car, so no probs with him ratting you out, and you wouldn't be about to either. Plus, a firefight 2 to 1 is much more favourable.

Engaging the cop means a firefight, which I would personally try to avoid at all costs, unless you were sure you had maximum avaliable firepower, body armour, and some protection on my own vehicle. When the hammer does his bit, I would envision not enough of an angle across the police vehicle, I don't know about the shotgun slugs, as even the sharp edged shot from your PDF wouldn't be able to go through the radiator / grille etc, then do enough damage to the engine. (I'm going on your picture here.) What if this is not your everyday police car, but one of the 4WD types ?

Also, the chances (whether you initiate the 'contact' or not) of you or your companion getting hurt are pretty great unless you're a great shot and the cop isn't. I know you wouldn't really care if your companion got shot..... but if it was you..... What if there are two cops in the cruiser ?

What if the cop was just going to politely remind you that a rear light wasn't working ? I don't know about things there in America, but here I don't think cops radio in unless there is trouble. I would assume before even pulling right over they would have radioed in that they are pulling over whatever car at whatever location.

Assuming that you are in an untraceable car, with nothing to identify the driver or passenger, and assuming you're not wanted after a 'job' in that car, you may just be able to talk your way out of it, assuming you don't mind getting your liscence checked etc. Can a cop search the car without a good reason ?

The downside to this play it softly approach is the cop has to approach you, and therefore puts you at a great disadvantage if it does turn nasty. I think there are too many factors involved, (think about how many 'assuming's' and if / maybe's in this post. ) to be able to decide on the right course of action depending on when / where / who and what is involved.

As a quick response, it should work wonders, as long as you have the setup you need to pull it off, without anyone getting killed first up. (Unless it's the cop of course).

[j_rico1951]

Hey...Lame...keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about.

All that "Bond" crap isn't going to do it.

RTPB "K.I.S.S"

NBK

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by nbk2000
it's best to make it impossible for him to turn on you, by involving him in a homicide (or attempted anyways) on a cop.
Well thought, I did not realized that.

Originally posted by GibboNet
Also, the chances (whether you initiate the 'contact' or not) of you or your companion getting hurt are pretty great unless you're a great shot and the cop isn't.
Two criminals capable of doing a flawless (perfection achieved through practice) "Hammer and Anvil" tactic should be better shooters than a joe cop. :rolleyes:

As GibboNet said hammer and anvil is risky but we should remeber that the goal is not to use a perfect plan, but to use the best plan possible. Just because it's risky does not mean that there is something better to do. No pain, no gain... (quote from porn sites)

[Agent Blak]

Some of you seem to have problems grasping the NBK2000 Philosophies:
"Kill'em All... Let Hades Sort'em Out"
"Shoot First, Shoot Again, Ask A Few Questions. Then Double Tap"

The problem is there are tons of variables out in the really streets. So we try to formulate plans for the worst case, which will still be effective in other cases, just some over-kill.

If you come out shooting the cops has to draw his gun and take cover before he can shoot back. This definitely gives you the advantage.

I hope this doesn't sound to James Bond-ish but;

you could use Direction MicroWaves(See Poor Man's Ray Gun) to fry the electrical components. The Pork always pulls up quite close to behind you.

You could also have a 12 gauge in a piece of 3/4"water pipe hooked up electronicly in your door facing out. Steel plate backing it about where the door lock is located. If you were talented with out body you could have fill and painted over this. Have the trigger for that on the stearing wheel.

Just a few thoughts...

[nbk2000]

Yes, they are lego men. :D

I've found that using LegoCAD, in addition to PS7, allows me to very quickly illustrate tactics by not having to muck about with hand drawing every building and vehicle. Plus, it makes for a very uniform appearance, and I can even do 3-D rotations if I wanted to get fancy with it. :)

As for the tactic, it's all about making the best of a bad situation. Besides which, haven't we all learned by now that technology is our friend? ;)

Why stick your head out where Mr. Piggy might get lucky and blow it off, when you could stick your gun-cam'd rifle out instead? Gun mounted shields (very small) are covered in the DVD. Hey, how about Hammer tosses some molotov's filled with exploding incendiary gel? That'd take care of the vehicle.

By whatever means you do it, the most important thing is disabling the vehicle. Anvil simply serves as distraction to allow Hammer to do his job.

The quadrangle shot would be more than adequate for the job of shredding the radiator. Without the cooling system, a cars engine dies QUICK, I know having lost several this way. :( Besides which, the shot will be tearing up the electrical wiring, oil hoses, etc, making it very unlikely that the vehicle will be going anywhere soon.

If you're really paranoid, there's no reason we can't take the tactic of the DC sniper, and have a guy in the trunk who snipes the pig through a hole hidden under the license plate. He'd never see it coming...

Now, once you've killed the pig, than you'd might want to take the time to destroy the videotape/HDD, mounted in the trunk. Oh yes, you have to RTPB "Assume you're on camera..." since many piggies now have videosystems recording everything they do.

Fortunately, the recorders are always mounted in the trunk, so that simplifies the task. For this, you'd want to use frangible slugs, these being slugs that disintegrate into dust on impact. One slug blows the trunk lock, then several go into recorder box, scrambling its guts. :D Tossing a molotov into the trunk afterwards wouldn't hurt either. The extra step of video destruction should take another 30 seconds or so, so your whole time, start to finish should be about a minute.

With the video destroyed, the only witness dead, and your vehicle ditched and torched, there'd not be a whole lot the piggies could do at the moment. Oh sure, they'd devote a lot of resources to tracking you down (a given), but you wouldn't have capped the pig in the first place if you weren't already wanted for some very serious and nefarious acts, now would you?

If you think this too quick, realize that most pig/crim gunfights last less than 5 seconds (FBI), so that leaves plenty of time for mopping up. Especially if you've avoided any dramatic gunfights and had a trunk sniper DOA the pork before he ever stepped out the car.

In my cinematographer's minds eye, I could see this as a very "hard-core" scene for a "Reservoir Dogs" or "Heat" kind of movie. :D The two killers don't say a word during the whole event, being the stone-cold Natural Born Killers that they are (;)), with Hammer putting an insurance shot into the downed pigs head on his way to blow the trunk.

Now imagine a whole movie with hard scenes like this! Quentin Tarintino would look like a teat-sucking punk compared to what I could make! I'm afraid I'd be too hard for Hollywood, though.

BTW, blak, it'd be "...Double Tap, Then Ask NO Questions because dead men tell no tales". Oh, and check your e-mail.

[john_smith]

The biggest problem with this is that for most of us it's going to be two pigs vs. one criminal, not the other way around...Also, at night you could use a couple of powerful rearward facing spotlights since the pigs almost always turn on theirs, be it a broken taillight or 2 mph over or whatever.

[GibboNet]

Took me a while to work out where I'd seen the shape of those car doors before. :rolleyes:

I assume there are a lot of blocky figures in graphics on the DVD ? It's a god idea tho.

I had another look at my car's front end, and although I'm not much of an expert (more the noob) when it comes to shotguns, I reckon quadrangle shot would go through, they're just thin foils of metal close together. I was lucky anough to have the water pump fail on me recently, I've learnt a lot about the cooling system since then........

I would love to see a movie NBK..... Though I doubt, as you say, hollywood would be ready for it.

Did you get a copy of swordfish like you wanted a while back ? I'm downloading it now, by the time it's finished I can cut a section (say the human claymore bit) out and upload it for you.

+++++++++++++++

Do that if you can. I never got around to renting it, hearing how it was such shite, I didn't feel it worth $5 for the one scene.

NBK.

[j_rico1951]

NBK; I have no doubt that what I am about to say will probably, if you have any say-so about it, result in my being banned from this forum. If that is so, well then 'que sera, sera'.

Having been a visitor, both to this forum and your website when it was up, for several years now, I found your editing of my post to be just a tad bit irksome. As a result, my regard for your opinions have plummeted like a rock in a pond.

Let's start with your first comment:
" Hey...Lame..."
This reminds me of what a liberal does when confronted by someone who doesn't agree with or accept their opinions. Rather than debating the merits/demerits of the differing views, they choose to belittle, ridicule and insult the 'offending' party without even knowing anything about them. Is there a little bit of 'liberal' lurking in your heart?

" keep your mouth shut if you don't know what you're talking about."
Would nine years working in security and law enforcement both military and civilian in two states meet your qualifications for 'knowing what I am talking about'? Or how about having distant relatives that used to run bootleg booze in the Carolinas?

All that "Bond" crap isn't going to do it.
For your information, that 'Bond crap' is from real life events. Most of the readers of this forum will know that movies tend to sensationalize events, but I mentioned them so that readers could obtain a visual examples of what I was talking about. Bootleggers have used both methods of avoiding traffic stops. The dumping of oil on the road causes loss of control & possibly crashes the pursuing vehicle while the smoke screen hides a change in route & also hides hazards that could result in the cop becoming disabled & no longer able to continue pursuit. The military has been using smoke screens since the turn of the century to mask troop and vehicle movements on the battlefield & they work just as I decribed.

It's SOP for police departments to teach their officers to call in the license plate & vehicle description for a 'wants & warrents' before exiting their patrol car. So in your scenario, while you are tied up dealing with the cop, backup is already rolling. Then too, being involved in this type of action, having a partner involved means having one person too many that can rat out. The 'interrogation' of anyone involved in your scenario will be horrendous, so ratting out is a definite probablity.

And with this, I sadly hope you enjoy a healthy slice of 'humble pie'.

[j_rico1951]

AgentBlak; Having read 'Poor Man's Ray Gun', the only way I would use this is as a boobytrap. The biggest problem you would have in the scenario you propose is that of shielding the PMRG since as written, it would be just as dangerous to you as to the cop. Also, if you have it located in the trunk of your car, it would be nearly worthless as the metal of the car body would attenuate the microwave beam rendering it ineffective. BTW, plice have available to them, a device that when placed on the road, will shoot off a beam of microwave energy when a car passes over it, thereby frying the cars electrical system causing it to stall out & stop. Doesn't work with the older cars very well as they don't have computers of electronic ignitions. They also have a unit that is based on an RC car that can be driven under a vehicle to disable it ala one of Tom Selleck's movies only not as James Bond-ish as the movie. DARPA is playing around with a microwave gun that causes surface skin irritaion (pain) so as to be able to break up riots. None of this though would prevetn the cop from ID'ing you if you are later caught. Avoiding traffic stops is the best course of action, barring that is terminating with extreme predudice. Radio jammers to prevent communication, then two to the chest & one to the head.

[Aaron-V2.0]

I agree with john_smith's idea of a few high power spotlights on a simple toggle switch which face rearwards. If it's an offroad rig you can justify them for visibility when offroading. ;)

But just take it a step further, two cheap strobelights at 10 FPM and an inverter to convert the electricity would cost around $70 to put together. The strobes should flash at the same time since they'll both be powered at the same time with a toggle switch near the driver's seat. Though this would only work good at night and at night you have the problem at firing at a guy who's only appearing 10 times a second.

Still, in a pitch dark road the pig will be worse off!

[Zyklon_B]

2 people means twice the possibility of mistake. I would avoid having anyone else along for the ride.

Now consider this, your alone in the car whaiting for the cop to come up to your window and ask for you license and registration, detach your seatbelt, now grab you cup of coffee and whait for the cop to come up, pretend to drink the coffee, then roll down the window and when he sticks his face close eneugh throw the coffee is his face, the proceed to open the door in this time prefferably hitting the pig with the door at the same time. Then begin to shoot the police officer in the head, or at all if you arent too nervous.

To improve on this plan you can you could also replace your coffee with some form of homemade mace or acid. Just make sure to remember what is in the cup for when you get real thirsty.

Another technique is once the police officer is up to the window jam the car into reverse, this will slam you into his car and place him either to the side of you or infron of you, proceed to run him over with your vehicle if possible.

[nbk2000]

j-rico:

Ah...yes...the classic "impossibility of disproving a negative" reply.

You say you're well experienced in security, yet provide no proof, thus making it impossible for us to disprove your statement.

And trying to claim some special skills or knowledge because of what your ancestors/relatives did, or were, is lame by anyones definition. I've got three generations of cops on my fathers side, and the same number of chicago/kansas city mafia on my mothers. So what the fuck does that have to do with this discussion? Nothing!

Therefore, we must judge you based on the postings you've made (all three of them), and decide from that whether you've the "skillz" you claim to have.

Well, judging by the few lines you posted as a reply in this topic, you don't.

Spraying oil into an exhaust produces a miserably thin smoke that would simply make you even more visible by leaving a trail for the pigs to follow, since it'd certainly do nothing to obscure the road.

Caltrops are perfectly valid, but then you add the complication of a mechanism to disperse them, when a flimsy cardboard box tossed out the window would accomplish the same thing.

Oil on the road? Nigger...please...urban myth. Sure, if you've got GALLONS of it in a nice puddle, that'll work great. But sprayed out on a road? Don't work. Roads are wonderfully craggy, and rubber wonderfully pliant, allowing the two to join quite well despite a microscopically thin layer of oil sprayed out at low volume during high speed. Also, doesn't work at all on dirt roads.

Also, I find your (almost literal) word-by-word rebuttal to be strangely reminiscint of a person who's been previously banned (in various incarnations) for thinking they knew more then they actually did, and who'd go ballistically ape-shit over any well-deserved criticism, posting huge word-by-word rebuttals, paragraphs devoted to a few words, in some pathetic attempt to justify their previous tripe.

Hmmm...who was that...Madscientist....Pu239....shitHED? Something like that. :p

Seems you still haven't learned to glean the difference between speaking a vital few (words) and the trivial many. But, being a "liberal", I'm inclined to let people post as many trivial words as they wish, for it only shows even better how worthless they are.

Anyways, it matters not, for you've broken the rules. The supreme rule, actually, so doom on you. :)

Oh, and since you'll no longer be able to see The Forum any longer, I've e-mailed you a copy of this reply so you can see what everyone else (who's still a member :p) will be seeing, in the interest of fairness and all. :D

[nbk2000]

It's SOP for police departments to teach their officers to call in the license plate & vehicle description for a 'wants & warrents' before exiting their patrol car.


Gee, really? No shit, I'd never have guessed that. :rolleyes:

You're rolling along after having done something suitably horrible, when Mr. Pig pulls up behind you. You can see he's on the radio, and you know he's going to get back some "interesting" info on your vehicle being seen at the scene of the crime. So, rather than having him follow you for 10 minutes while backup comes swarming from across the county, you pre-empt him by pulling over, before he's even turned on the lights.

What's he going to do now? He can't simply keep on driving by like he doesn't know what the deal is. He HAS to pull over too, which puts him in the position of having to deal with you by himself, without any backup. :)

If it's just you and him, then it's to your advantage, because you're shooting to kill (and presumably have already done so), while he may be hampered by all that "appropriate use of force" training that liberals have foisted on the police, which may slow him down a fraction of a second...long enough to get him killed.

Any semi-trained pork is going to be standing to the rear of the driver, making the "cup o' acid in the face" trick rather problematic and dangerous for the driver, what with acid splashback being a real bitch.

If there's two crims', then the odds are vastly in your favor at this point. Hammer time!

If piggy gets out, that's great. If not, that's fine too.

Piggy will be expecting you to be waiting for him to step out before trying to run away. He might even be expecting the passenger to bail out of the car when you stop.

But what he won't be expecting is for you to slam it into reverse and smash into him. Nor will he be expecting the guy who bailed out to be running towards him, plugging the cops car with slugs into the engine, prior to hopping back into the car and burning rubber out of there, leaving a dazed (or dead) cop by the side of the road in a shot up and immobile car. :p

There's always the slight chance that your bumpers will get hooked together, in which case you might be S.O.L., but it's a chance you take.

If there's two cops, and just you, then you're outgunned. That's why it'd be good to have a second guy with you. Even if the second guy turns chicken shit and runs, that's still a decoy to draw half their fire and attention away from you. :)

As for the second guy ratting on you, that'd be a problem if you've got the wrong guy with you. But, if you've got the right crimey...that's not going to be a problem. Platt and Mattox, LA Bank Robbers...these guys went out shooting, choosing death over cowardly surrender.

So, if you find the right psychopath as your partner, ratting isn't going to be a problem you'll have to worry about. Especially after you've blasted a cop or two, because the rest of the piggies are going to be shooting to kill, so your partner wouldn't even be given the chance to rat on you before the pigs blow him to gibblets. :D

Also, since you're traveling together, you could always blast him if you feel that he's turning squirrelly and might try to surrender. There's no place for cowards in my car.

Anyways, if there's room on the shoulder, you may wish to pull over too much and "overcorrect" so that the nose of the vehicle is pointed towards the road, and the ass end towards to shoulder. Not too much, but enough so that the driver can shoot out the door without having to lean out and back, and putting the passengers side door opposite the pigs line of sight on the other side of the car.

Once hammer has rolled out, anvil taps the gas and moves forward a bit, clearing hammers line of fire, and blocking the nearest lanes of traffic, obstructing piggies escape, while giving anvil a nice enfilade field of fire on the piggy.

This also has the advantage of, at night, taking you out of the blinding "cone of light" that cops throw up to blind you.

I've left out all the "Bond" crap out of the possibilities since you may have to have ditched your Bond car on site, being forced to escape in the first vehicle you could snag. RTPB "Plan for failure", hence the need to rely on tactics and whatever small-arms you have on you, rather than specially gimmicked cars you may not be able to get to.

If you have a Bond car, then just turn on your laser blinders, broad-spectrum RF jammers, fire your heat-seeking missles, and be done with it. :p

RTPB "K.I.S.S" and "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication".

[Jakio]

So you are working as a pair in an unprepared car, right? Why not have the passenger sit in the back seat with a shotgun, Break the rear window, and shoot out the piggy radiator through the broken rear window? At that distance, you could take out a Crown Vic radiator with two or three shots before the piggies even left the car. If you are concerned with maintaining the appearance of the car so as to not attract attention from others, a small clean hole towards the top of the rear window taped over with newspaper would be far less obtrusive than a recently broken window.

[GibboNet]

By the time you've broken the window (wouldn't be too easy to get much of a swing in the back of your average car, but I haven't tried) The cop will realise what's going on, and will have at least spotted the shotgun you're trying to break the window with. He would then of course take action, and you're at a disadvantage.

Like you say, the window would also be noticeable, though you would be dumping the car after any police contact such as this would be.

NBK, what would you like the swordfish clip as ? original DivX, or Real Media or something else ?

Also:

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I think that's right, but I don't really know what I'm doing with PGP.

[80r15]

I would just be sitting in the front seat with a Mac-11 and as soon as the piggie sticks his fat ass out of his little piggie-mobile and gets close enough, take out the Mac-11, put it to his chest and squeeeeeze. Or if you do not wish to get blood all over you, have the friend use a silenced pistol, pop out of the sunroof, and blow the pigs little head off. Then again, if you are going to kill him, it might be better to try to take him hostage so if you are being pursued down the highway, they won't have any stupid ideas of spikestrips because they know you will kill their fellow pig. Just an idea...

[Anthony]

"as soon as the piggie sticks his fat ass out of his little piggie-mobile and gets close enough, take out the Mac-11, put it to his chest and squeeeeeze"

The cop is approaching your car with his gun drawn and pointed at you, he won't enter your line of fire unless you've got both hands on the wheel like he's demanded you do. You make a sudden move for something on the passenger seat and you get a bullet in the ear.

Cops may not be that bright, but they're not *that* dumb either. Countless times have they pulled someone over and been shot when they approached the car.

Rather than smashing the rear screen (Sod's law says the first blow would glance and not break the glass [they're surprisingly resistant to blunt impact]), the passenger would have their window down/ Combined with NBK's idea of stopping the car skewed, he should have a good shot at the radiator.

If the cop is still in the car, then chances are he'd duck behind the dash, so you could pump in a few shots without worrying about returned fire.

[Axt]

Just be sure not to cooperate (http://www.bangedup.com/archives/triggercontrollessonl.mov) :rolleyes:

[Jakio]

As far as breaking the rear window.... it would be possible to prepare any car one would be driving by breaking the rear window and replacing it with newspaper... this could be done after a "job" as soon as a car was chosen and Borrowed (ie one man drives, one man goes to work with the window)...

Police officers aren't stupid, but their cars are vulnerable... they always spend time on their little computers when they pull someone over, and this would be the perfect time, imho, for a rear window shotgun assault on their radiator. Then, with a little luck, you can just drive away and be done with it.

[nbk2000]

And notice how it was a woman...:rolleyes:

Added further illustration of modifed "Hammer and Anvil".

[ElectricJesus]

I could not help but notice how much that plan would not work well, if at all.

First of all, it seems as though you're assuming that at the moment you were pulled over, the cop knows that you have (whatever) in the car, and you must kill him, and his vehicle. If you're getting pulled over, out of the blue, it's going to be for a traffic violation.

If they think you have guns, etc... in the vehicle, and are up to no good, they'll tail you, but you're not getting pulled over untill backup (at least 1 or 2 cars) are there, with 2 officers in each car, possibly armed with shotguns.

If it's a traffic stop, play it off as a traffic stop, you're probably good to go. Unless you're acting all figity and nervous, or whatever you have is in plain sight (and you know better than that) they don't have probable cause to search the car.

Second of all, if they do suspect something serious (more than drugs or something) they will make you get out of the car, thier hand is on thier gun, ready to draw and fire. If they see you reaching for a gun, or any action that could be construed as reaching for a gun that would hold up in court, you're getting shot.

In the event they don't call you out of the car, when they go back to radio for backup, they'll be facing you the whole time, still ready to shoot at any moment. They CAN see through windows, so reaching for a gun is still a bad idea. If your windows are tinted dark enough that they can't see you, they will have gotten you out of the car.

Ugh. I'm too tired to continue with the flaws in this plan for now.

I just think it's odd that you are assuming the cops are on the same level as a poorly trained hamster.

At any rate, if you get pulled over for a broken turn signal, don't jump out with an AK and start spraying the cop. He's just doing his job, and if you give no reason to suspect anything, you're good. Keep your weapons, etc.. out of sight, and go with the ol' "I couldn't have been doing more than 5 over" scheme.

No offense, although somewhat well thought out (if you were trying to kill a 6 year old on his big wheel), but there are too many variables that cause this plan to put the odds against you. (cops, if suspicious at all, will err on the side of thier personal safety, and will shoot you the second they think you're up to something)

Just think, if you weren't cool headed enough to talk your way through just getting a traffic ticket, what makes you think you're getting out your gun and jumping out of the car without him noticing?

[nbk2000]

If you're getting pulled over, out of the blue, it's going to be for a traffic violation.


BZZZZZ! You're now psychic and know why a pig is pulling you over? Could be a busted tail light, though I'd think you'd have the sense to pre-check your vehicle to eliminate such possiblilities, or could be he got a APB to be on the lookout for a vehicle matching your description.

Regardless of why you got pulled over, you must assume the worst, and react with overwhelming and violent force, before piggy has a chance to get backup.

Remember McVeigh of OKC fame? He got pulled over for a petty traffic violation and ended up executed. He had blown up a building, had a gun on the seat next to him, and let himself get arrested for a traffic violation. What a lame...(Though I think he was a patsy, but that's besides the point.)

Best case scenario is that you talk your way out and are on your way. Worst case is your busted and executed. RTPB "Plan for failure" and "Expect the worst and you'll never be unprepared". Plan for the failure of your get away by preparing for police contact. You MUST assume the worst case and react accordingly. This means the pig is pulling you over to arrest you and backup is on the way.


If they think you have guns, etc... in the vehicle, and are up to no good, they'll tail you, but you're not getting pulled over untill backup (at least 1 or 2 cars) are there, with 2 officers in each car, possibly armed with shotguns.


You may wish to read this part of my earlier post, which would have enlightened you on how to deal with this situation. I'll re-post it here for your edification. :)


You're rolling along after having done something suitably horrible, when Mr. Pig pulls up behind you. You can see he's on the radio, and you know he's going to get back some "interesting" info on your vehicle being seen at the scene of the crime. So, rather than having him follow you for 10 minutes while backup comes swarming from across the county, you pre-empt him by pulling over, before he's even turned on the lights.

What's he going to do now? He can't simply keep on driving by like he doesn't know what the deal is. He HAS to pull over too, which puts him in the position of having to deal with you by himself, without any backup.


Is that simple enough for you for you to understand now?

The objective is NOT to kill the cop, but to immobilize his vehicle, so you can flee without immediate pursuit, giving you the opportunity to disperse into the sprawl. If you don't kill the cop, and aren't caught within 8 years, then statute of limitations apply and you can't be charged for it.

However, if you've already killed, then you might as well kill the cop to ensure your own death at the hands of the police (if they catch you), rather than rotting away in prison waiting for the needle.


...flaws in this plan for now...assuming the cops are on the same level as a poorly trained hamster...He's just doing his job...


No plan is without flaws, only God is perfect. But being without ANY plan is sure death.

As for the cop, he does traffic stops all the time and, as with any job, tedium and carelessness slips in because of the sheer tedium of it. A cop can go years without so much as a scuffle before he meets the pair of career criminals with nothing to lose by, and every intention of, killing him.

How well is he going to react to these crims who've planned and practiced for this very scenario, when he himself has settled into the routine traffic stop trap. Cops are warned about this trap (tedium causing carelessness) all the time, but it happens anyways, because of the tedious nature of the job.

Cops aren't poorly trained hamsters...rather more like well trained dogs. A dogs instincts are to chase fleeing prey. What do you do when attacked by a dog? Run? NO! You attack! Predators attack, prey flee.

When I'm attacked by dogs, I attack them back, and they are often times cowed by this unexpected behavior coming from their "prey". I was charged by two dogs (at different times) earlier today while walking to the grocer.

Did I run away? No. I ran at them, shouting and hitting them with my knapsack, all the while kicking them. They ran away. :D

So too with pigs. In this scenario, the piggy would be expecting you to flee, not attack using a pincer movement, engaging both him and his vehicle simultaniously.

I'm curious...how many times have you been on the muzzle end of police guns? Ever live (literally) under the gun? I have many times, and for many years, done just that. Not proud of it, but after enough times and enough years, you no longer fear it, though you still respect it.

Fear is the mind killer. If you let your fear of getting shot override your thinking, then you WILL fail, and you WILL be shot. But having a plan ahead of time, even one intended "to kill a 6 year old on his big wheel", beats trying to pull one out of your ass when the shit hits the fan.

RTPB "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it".

So, since you've decided to enlighten us with your criticism, perhaps it is now time for you to enlighten us with your vast warehouse of experience and knowledge about such endeavors and tell us how YOU would do better.

I'm sure the reply will be most enlightening...:rolleyes:

(Typical troll reply "You'll ban me if I say anything")

Feel free to say anything you want. We're here to learn, and to share, not to cultivate a bunch of "Yes" men. If you've got something better, we're all ears, and you'll get respect for your skills...IF you have any.

[Mr-Eckted]

Plus, NBK: ElectricJesus is from Edmonton, and I, also being from there, can assure you that most of the cops here are intellectual equals to poorly trained hamsters.
You don't know for sure if the police are pulling you over because of a bad tag, or because of a bullitien out for your car, for unspecified reasons. Of course, in most cases, this technique would be more than was called for, but you don't know beforehand when the rare time that it is called for is going to happen. Far better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[ElectricJesus]

Based on experience (with the Edmonton police, whom are among the best trained in north america) getting busted on a weapons complaint I can say not to underestimate the cops. They aren't going to send one officer. There were 3 cruisers and 2 unmarked cars, each with 2 cops, on the scene before any lightbars even came on. Now, this was when we were on foot mind you, but I can assure you, they weren't going to take any risks/chances. Now if it's 2 guys in a car, they are going to be just as cautious (if not more), and if you pull over, they will most likely drive by and not engage you, unless they have at thier immediate disposal, more than one officer.

If he's running your plate to check for a crime recently reported involving a vehicle of your cars description, they are already not in the position to put themselves in unnessicary danger, by following up on you pulling over, when they're alone. They WILL wait for backup.

Just think. You're driving say, a white toyota, and you just blew up a gas station. (just an example. I'm sure you're not going to blow up any gas stations soon) and an officer out on the freeway makes note of an APB on 2 males in a white toyota. If he/she sees 2 males in a white toyota, they're going to report that right then. There will probably be more cars on thier way to that area before it's even confirmed that your car is indeed the one they're after. By the time the plate has been run, a few radio calls are exchanged, and they know for sure it's you, there's at least one, if not more, cars within visual range. If you pull over, and the other cars are already there, they will box you in when you pull over, thus blocking your route of escape.

Here's a more accurate representation: http://www.pbase.com/image/18078428

[nbk2000]

I liked that "I still draw pictures like like I'm in the 3rd grade" look that picture has. :D