potassium chlorate and nitromethane - Archive File

[megalomania]

kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-12-2001 04:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was just wondering about that explosive made with potassium chlorate and vaseline. Then my thoughts progressed to ammonium nitrate and nitromethane which made me wonder could a high explosive be made by mixing potassium chlorate with nitromethane??
Has anyone tried this?


kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-20-2001 02:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is this really such a bad question?



sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 01-21-2001 07:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
good question actually. I have wondered the same thing before, but have no idea, sorry i couldn't help!
------------------
All there is to fear is your own co-ordination



Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-21-2001 02:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would have to say it is safe to assume so; You can make an explosive with Benzene or Kerosene/KClO3.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"... As He Waits For The Time When The Last Become First And,
The First Shall Become last"
--RATM

Agent Blak-------OUT!!



kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-21-2001 04:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thanx guys.......i was begining to give up!!!!


shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 01-21-2001 04:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason annm works is that the nitro-methane is sensitized by the ammonia in the A.N. By itself NM is very insensitive. Almost anything with ammonia will work. P C will not sensitize NM.,but the NM MAY sensitize the PC. I think you should be VERY careful when you mix this stuff up. Make a very small batch(grain of sand sized)and wack it with a hammer. Good luck.


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-21-2001 05:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Err, I thought the NM sensitized the AN? Otherwase you'd get a nice explosive by mixing NM with ammonium hydroxide!


MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-21-2001 05:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually,the 60's explosive manuals claimed that you could in fact sensitize NM with store-bought ammonia sulution;has anyone successfully done it?.


Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 01-22-2001 06:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was Phil. Z. who tried this. Look under "calcium nitronate" and there was also a post called something like "NM sensitising?". Basically, NM/ammonia forms a compound, NH4-CH2-NO2 because NM is slightly acidic.


shooter2
Frequent Poster
Posts: 56
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 01-22-2001 07:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once the NM is sensitized you have an intimate mixture of sensitive NM and AN. The NM overdrives the AN. Technicly the AN is not really sensitized. It's a good combo.though. Brisance from one, gas volume from the other.


PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 01-30-2001 09:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ammonia saturated NM should be more sensitive than NM alone!
NM with KClO3 would be a waste of KClO3 since it has nothing to see with an explosive component (what NH4NO3 is since it is an insensitive explosive).
KClO3 may only give a little more oxygen to complete the oxygen balance of the CH3-NO2 what is negative!
A far better idea would be to mix NM with Ammonium perchlorate (more sensitive than AN) also detonable active component.
Or even better hydrazinium nitrate or perchlorate but that's another story....

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



CodeMason
Frequent Poster
Posts: 383
From: Your Nightmares
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-12-2001 03:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Err, I thought the NM sensitized the AN? Otherwase you'd get a nice explosive by mixing NM with ammonium hydroxide!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You DO get a nice explosive from 96% nitromethane and 4% ammonium hydroxide! It's a liquid, which is useful for perculiar shaped charges, plus I think a #6 cap will detonate it, although I'd try a #8. I was gonna try this, but I wasted all my nitromethane experimenting with ANNM type mixtures.

[jlithen]

My friend has made some PCNM, or whatever, Potassium chlorate with Nitro Methane... I'm not sure about the ratio but I would gues something like 3:1. Like with ANNM.
Accoriding to his tests it is much more powerful than ANNM...making a much bigger pit in the ground.
I guess KClO3 mixed with allmost anything combustible will make a HE. Allthough the vaseline and or picricacid mixture was very week when we tried it...
I'd be more worried about the unstability of PCNM, which my friend didn't do any reseach about. He just said he stored the mixture for a month and it was fine...
The next thing would be to try Potassium permanganate with nitromethane...but that mixt be very sensitive...I guess I'll have to try making 1gram.

[Boomer]

Yeah, thats just enough to completely shred your hand. (Though I assume IF it reacts it will probably burn ... but who wants to try?) All I know is KMnO4 does NOT like being mixed with almost anything - especially liquid fuels.

Why does every noob dig out an antique thread in his first 5 posts? OK, still better than starting one ... :D

EDIT: Sorry, just noticed you are around for a while in spite of your post count. But still...

[PTS]

I dont have a pure source for KClO3 so im thinking of extracting it from matches (Cutting the match heads off and disolving the match powder in Acetone and filtering it)

Will my end product be pure enough to mix with NM or other combustable substances to make a HE?

p.s. Sorry for digging up an old thread, didnt want to start a new one.

[knowledgehungry]

As a general rule you want your HE's to be as free of contaminants as possible, especially contaminants that react with the HE. Match heads contain sulfur as well as KClO3, when mixed the result is a very sensitive mixture. Dissolving and filtering will certainly get the majority of sulfur out of the mix but not all.

I wouldn't worry greatly about the mixture detonating on you, but igniting on you could be almost as nasty.

There are better ways to get KClO3 IMHO.

[sirthomasthegreat]

KClO₃ is explosive due to its decomposition.

2KClO₃ => 2KCl + 3O₂

Wonder what KClO₄ would do with your explosive since it give off more oxygen with is decomp being
KClO₄ => KCl + 2O₂
Thats a better reactant to product ratio.

By the way, does anyone know how to make ClO- into ClO₄-?
I know it is a redox reaction with the chloride going from a 1+ to a 7+, just forgotten the condition necessary to do so.

EDIT:
If you didnt know I am trying to take bleach and make lots of ClO₄- as ClO- is a major part of bleach.

[stupid939]

You probably do not want to use bleach because it usually only contains 3-6% sodium hypochlorite. Pool stores sell oxidizers that containg 10% sodium hypochlorite, and would be a lot easier to use.

I don't know that you can make a perchlorate straight from a hypochlorite (maybe a double displacement reaction with another perchlorate?), but you can convert a majority of the hypochlorite to a chlorate by boiling the solution. If you did want to do a double displacement using another perchlorate, I would recommend using KCl because it is way cheaper.

I would guess that you are probably trying to make KClO4, so you would boil the hypochlorite for awhile and then add KCl to convert it to KClO3. This solution could be cooled, filtered, possibly purified, and then you could use electrolysis to convert it to a perchlorate. This can get pretty pricey because platinum is usually used for the anode in a perchlorate cell. Here are two sites which go through each procedure.

http://frogfot.com/synthesis/chloratetherm.html

http://vk2zay.net/article.php/63

All of these could be found on the forum quite easily, but I felt like typing and helping someone out.

[Enkidu]

UTFSE. Chlorates are one of the most discussed kewl topics.

Here is a good link. It's the second page that comes up in a google search.

http://www.wfvisser.dds.nl/EN/perchlorate_EN.html

You will have better luck if you can find bleaching powder (calcium hypoclorite, Ca(OCl)2 ). You may be able to find it as a pool chlorinating compound.

A friend and I tried the thermal decomposition method once. We used something that was about 50% calcium hypochlorite. The reaction went as it should have (we got bubbles, crystals, etc.), but the product didn't even burn. I blame it on the impure bleaching powder.

Remember:

OCl- is a hypochlorite, the active ingredient in bleach.
ClO3- is a chlorate, unstable.
ClO4- is a perchlorate, more stable.

=====

Edit: I see somebody already replied. Both pages listed reference the page to which I linked. My friend and I never finished our perchlorate electrolysis experiment, but I can tell you that those carbon rods for 'gouging' do exist, although they are a little expensive. We got ours for free. Also, check eBay for platinum rods. I saw a completed listing that went for dirt cheap once. (The seller forgot to add a reserve.)

[sirthomasthegreat]

Thanks for the info. I used a search engine but there is so much crap out there. Usually when I search something the page with info that is helpful is on page 30. Didn't know if anyone knew of the top of their head. I don't ask many questions so if I do it is because I have good reason to.