megalomania
June 9th, 2003, 05:49 PM
TylerDurden
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Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-20-2001 07:11 AM
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I read a German article somewhere where they talk about inmates making explosives/weapons from all kinds of stuff they can find inside the jail. And it said that when they could get "pokelsalz" and "amandelaroma" out of the kitchen they could make an explosive with the power of TNT. I think "pokelsalz" is NaNO3 (or NaNO2?) and "amandelaroma" is a flavor consisting of benzaldehyde.
So my question is if one can make a H.E. out of these ingredients.
And are there any other mixtures with NaNO3 that produce a high explosive? And are they capsensitive and what's the VoD?
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 20, 2001).]
eNt0n
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Posts: 19
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-20-2001 01:26 PM
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well, I found that recipe, too. It was in "Der Spiegel" a german newsmagazine. I tried it, by mixing different sizes of NaNO3 with this "mandelaroma". Tried fille it into CO2 catriges, filled it in pipebombs. No detonation/ignition when a fuse is used. Also no explosion when a detonator is used. I don't think that this could work. Maybe someone gots a better result.
Cipolla
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Posts: 37
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-20-2001 06:36 PM
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I think Mandelaroma could also be nitrobenzene, which smells like almonds. Ok, its toxic, but I think mixing Nitrobenzene with not too much Pökelsalz could form an explosive. Remember, even dinitrosobenzene is an explosive, not much impressed of its low oxygen content.
Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 200
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-20-2001 09:47 PM
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Pökelsalz or pickle salt is KNO3. You can buy it sometimes at supermarkets. But today it isn´t in use because it can form nitrosamine and they are cancerogene.
I think making explosives from those contents is bullshit.
If it would be possible it would be a well known method today and why should anyone make TNT when NaNO3/KNO3 and arome work as good.
Pickle salt insn´t used in jails.
Only in some TV films.
CodeMason
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Posts: 383
From: Your Nightmares
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-20-2001 11:45 PM
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"Pokelsalz" translates to saltpeter, and that means it's . They use KNO3 as a preservative for sausages, chille, pickles, etc.
"Mandelaroma" translates to "almond flavour". I think someone mentioned that this may contain nitrobenzene.
Nitrobenzene is an explosive that is similar to nitromethane. The KNO3 could act as the sensitizer, but I seriously doubt it. Plus the nitrobenzene would be seriously diluted, probably less than 0.1%, so it would be worthless. Even if it was PURE nitrobenzene, they'd only have enough to make a small firecracker. Then there's the problem of a detonator. So it sounds like bullshit to me.
The writers of the article probably looked at a sheet of chemicals that are used to make "explosives", saw potassium nitrate and nitrobenzene on there, looked around in a big kitchen and found stuff containing them, and proclaimed that prisoners breaking into prison kitchens could make high explosives! Hardly.
A more realistic scenario, is the convict steals some H2O2 from the medical room, then from the art room (supposing it's a "well off" prison), steals some acetone, and then from the supply closet steals some HCl. And then... Or maybe iodine crystals and cleaning ammonia.
TylerDurden
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Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-21-2001 06:19 AM
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OK, thanks. It was a serious article so I thought there might be some truth in it. But I also know that when they talk about (the manufacturing of) explosives (or drugs) in the media they (almost) never give good information, even if they know it (and the same with books and movies: it's mostly plain bullshit).
But I thought that this might be an exception because it was in a serious newspaper and I had some other information about NaNO3/KNO3 explosives. Although this information was also not very reliable: it was the book of Seymour Lecker about improvised explosives (he confuses a detonator with an ignitor: he describes a "detonator" made from a small bottle filled with matchheads. And he describes explosives mixtures made of KNO3 (with zinc dust for example) that can be "detonated" with these bottles). Now I know this is not going to work (although they (probably) will explode) but maybe they might detonate when real detonators are used and the mixtures are confined. So that's why I asked.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-24-2001 02:39 PM
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There IS some truth in it! I found two mixtures labelled as flashpowder containing nitrates: the first is a mixture of 6 gram of NaNO3 with 1 gram of magnesium powder and the second is a mixture of 4 parts BaNO3, 2 parts Aluminium powder and 1 part Sulphur.
These mixtures burn very fast unconfined and produce a bright flash of light. When confined they might even detonate when ignited by fuse, like some other flashpowder mixtures but I'm not sure. But they probably will detonate when heavy confined and/or set off with a detonator.
So nitrates CAN be used to make/improvise powerful (detonating) explosives, by adding some metal powder.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-20-2001 07:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I read a German article somewhere where they talk about inmates making explosives/weapons from all kinds of stuff they can find inside the jail. And it said that when they could get "pokelsalz" and "amandelaroma" out of the kitchen they could make an explosive with the power of TNT. I think "pokelsalz" is NaNO3 (or NaNO2?) and "amandelaroma" is a flavor consisting of benzaldehyde.
So my question is if one can make a H.E. out of these ingredients.
And are there any other mixtures with NaNO3 that produce a high explosive? And are they capsensitive and what's the VoD?
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 20, 2001).]
eNt0n
New Member
Posts: 19
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-20-2001 01:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well, I found that recipe, too. It was in "Der Spiegel" a german newsmagazine. I tried it, by mixing different sizes of NaNO3 with this "mandelaroma". Tried fille it into CO2 catriges, filled it in pipebombs. No detonation/ignition when a fuse is used. Also no explosion when a detonator is used. I don't think that this could work. Maybe someone gots a better result.
Cipolla
New Member
Posts: 37
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-20-2001 06:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think Mandelaroma could also be nitrobenzene, which smells like almonds. Ok, its toxic, but I think mixing Nitrobenzene with not too much Pökelsalz could form an explosive. Remember, even dinitrosobenzene is an explosive, not much impressed of its low oxygen content.
Jumala
Frequent Poster
Posts: 200
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-20-2001 09:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pökelsalz or pickle salt is KNO3. You can buy it sometimes at supermarkets. But today it isn´t in use because it can form nitrosamine and they are cancerogene.
I think making explosives from those contents is bullshit.
If it would be possible it would be a well known method today and why should anyone make TNT when NaNO3/KNO3 and arome work as good.
Pickle salt insn´t used in jails.
Only in some TV films.
CodeMason
Frequent Poster
Posts: 383
From: Your Nightmares
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-20-2001 11:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pokelsalz" translates to saltpeter, and that means it's . They use KNO3 as a preservative for sausages, chille, pickles, etc.
"Mandelaroma" translates to "almond flavour". I think someone mentioned that this may contain nitrobenzene.
Nitrobenzene is an explosive that is similar to nitromethane. The KNO3 could act as the sensitizer, but I seriously doubt it. Plus the nitrobenzene would be seriously diluted, probably less than 0.1%, so it would be worthless. Even if it was PURE nitrobenzene, they'd only have enough to make a small firecracker. Then there's the problem of a detonator. So it sounds like bullshit to me.
The writers of the article probably looked at a sheet of chemicals that are used to make "explosives", saw potassium nitrate and nitrobenzene on there, looked around in a big kitchen and found stuff containing them, and proclaimed that prisoners breaking into prison kitchens could make high explosives! Hardly.
A more realistic scenario, is the convict steals some H2O2 from the medical room, then from the art room (supposing it's a "well off" prison), steals some acetone, and then from the supply closet steals some HCl. And then... Or maybe iodine crystals and cleaning ammonia.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-21-2001 06:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, thanks. It was a serious article so I thought there might be some truth in it. But I also know that when they talk about (the manufacturing of) explosives (or drugs) in the media they (almost) never give good information, even if they know it (and the same with books and movies: it's mostly plain bullshit).
But I thought that this might be an exception because it was in a serious newspaper and I had some other information about NaNO3/KNO3 explosives. Although this information was also not very reliable: it was the book of Seymour Lecker about improvised explosives (he confuses a detonator with an ignitor: he describes a "detonator" made from a small bottle filled with matchheads. And he describes explosives mixtures made of KNO3 (with zinc dust for example) that can be "detonated" with these bottles). Now I know this is not going to work (although they (probably) will explode) but maybe they might detonate when real detonators are used and the mixtures are confined. So that's why I asked.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-24-2001 02:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There IS some truth in it! I found two mixtures labelled as flashpowder containing nitrates: the first is a mixture of 6 gram of NaNO3 with 1 gram of magnesium powder and the second is a mixture of 4 parts BaNO3, 2 parts Aluminium powder and 1 part Sulphur.
These mixtures burn very fast unconfined and produce a bright flash of light. When confined they might even detonate when ignited by fuse, like some other flashpowder mixtures but I'm not sure. But they probably will detonate when heavy confined and/or set off with a detonator.
So nitrates CAN be used to make/improvise powerful (detonating) explosives, by adding some metal powder.