megalomania
June 9th, 2003, 06:03 PM
Azazel
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posted 10-01-2000 04:01 AM
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Hello. Has anybody out there produced a nice yield of thermite? If so how nasty was the stuff? Did u try cutting metals with it? What kinda stuff did u do with it? Im just curious as to different experiences people have had with it.
Oh by the way have u got your own special or different formula for making it????
DarkAngel
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posted 10-01-2000 04:13 AM
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Finaly i found magnesium yesterday if you wanna make thermite with Magnesium do you mix it with the same proportion as the Aluminium Thermite recipe?
Anthony
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posted 10-01-2000 06:15 AM
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Where'd you find the Mg DarkAngel?
extreme
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posted 10-01-2000 08:06 AM
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2 parts Iron(III)oxid and 1 part Mg if theres no other oxygene availbe (in vacum )
Otherwise just use some more magnesium.
DarkAngel
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posted 10-01-2000 09:58 AM
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Anthony i found it in a new store in the city it`s a camping store,,Extreme thankzz fore the recipe!!!!!
Arthis
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posted 10-13-2000 03:18 PM
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There's a simple way of making thermit: iron oxyde with aluminium powder. It is really easy and burns quite easily. You can ignite it with Mg, but it's difficult to find it, or with SC-sugar powder.
Another thermit can be made with iron powder and S, it is used in France to found rails. It is a bit difficult to ignite it, more than the first recipie.
BoB-
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posted 10-13-2000 04:09 PM
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the "average" mix of thermit, Ferric and AL is pretty hard to ignite if both chemicals are made though,
SC-Sucrose sucks, its way too reactive and dangerous for my book,
Kno3-Sulfer burns much hotter than the SC mix and is a little safer, it produces tons of bad smoke though.
Has anyone ever tried old soda cans as containers for thermit?
there aluminum and I imagine they would be beautiful (or retinal destroying) lit up.
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited October 20, 2000).]
Lost
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posted 10-20-2000 06:35 PM
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KNO3-S is hotter than thermite? I'm not sure, but I didn't think that it was...
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-Lost
http://www.noneinc.org
vehemt
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posted 10-20-2000 07:13 PM
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He stated that kno3 - sulfur would burn hotter than sodium chlorate - sulfur.
Stone
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posted 10-20-2000 07:48 PM
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I always thought the s was for sugar, not sulphur... learn something new everyday
vehemt
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posted 10-20-2000 08:03 PM
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I should hope they are talking about sulfur as S is its symbol. Sucrose would be C12H22O11.
BoB-
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posted 10-20-2000 08:29 PM
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oops, that was retarded, the SC comment shoulda been SC-Sucrose, and the Kno3 comment shoulda been Kno3-S (Sulphur), I fixed it.
I dont know about its temperature,
but I couldnt look directly at it, it took a small amount of Kno3-Sucrose to ignite it, this may not be nessacary with hotter burning fuses.
ahmondjai
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posted 10-20-2000 09:59 PM
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For Mg in camping store, i saw something sort of like fire starters, is that the one?? it comes in a square stick, when u use it, just scarch some off, is that the one u guys r talking about?? if yes, how to mix with rust(the ratio?)and when setting it off, it should b much easier than the one with AL+iron oxide, right??and with what if anyone can suggest anything thats easy to get and use~~
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blade
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posted 10-21-2000 04:12 AM
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the Mg "crumbs" can be ignited with a simple match, or a couple of sparks.
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// Blade
DarkAngel
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posted 10-21-2000 05:35 AM
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The kind that i have is a block of Mg with a flint on it and a small string so that you can make it on your key`s or on your pants
[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited April 21, 2001).]
Foodos
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posted 10-22-2000 09:49 PM
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is it thermit? or thermite?
and does just a Sparkler, the little kids type ones, really ignite them? or maybe a long fuse with a few books of matches on the end embedded within the thermite? or is that still not hot enough?
[This message has been edited by Foodos (edited October 22, 2000).]
Cricket
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posted 10-22-2000 10:16 PM
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Thermite is what it usually used, but im far from an expert. Its what I use. I dont know if a book of matches will do the trick or not. I know that Potassium Chlorate burns hot and have heard that it is the main ingrediant in most matches. Give it a shot. I am more for that it wont, it would of been used by now. It would seem much more logical that a sparkler would do. I think they have Magnesium in them.
BoB-
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posted 10-22-2000 11:27 PM
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Pretty sure "Thermite" is a brandname, which is why I've always reffered to the homemade stuff as "thermit".
Matches do indeed contain Potassium Chlorate and a fuel and wax, on the old forum I typed a way to extract it, which I lost, oh well.
Matchheads might ignite thermit, they burn fairly hot, especially when grouped, but it would be kinda shotty to get to work,
I wouldnt bother myself with the trouble.
Cricket
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posted 10-23-2000 12:17 AM
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So after you extract is you would have fairly pure Potassium Chlorate?!?
BoB-
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posted 10-23-2000 02:25 AM
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sorta, filter's arent perfect, there will still be some microscopic bits of fuel in there.
I have very little experience with Sodium Chlorate, does "blasting powder" have a hotter maximum temerature than the potassium chlorate version?
Cricket
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posted 10-23-2000 02:56 AM
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I *think* the Potassium Chlorate is hotter, but if your comparing it to blasting powder, I dont know what all is in it (Sodium Chlorate and sugar?).
Stone
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posted 10-23-2000 03:32 AM
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I know Sulphur is S in the table of elements, but i thought they were abreviating(can't spell, don't care) things.
BoB-
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posted 10-23-2000 04:04 AM
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The actual dissolving isnt at all hard, boil some water (outside!)
dip a pack of matchs in it, after a small bit of time, all the mix should be removed off the heads,
little balls of yellow wax should form and join in the water, this is normal.
Pour through a coffee filter, saving the filtrate,
now the "fun" part, removing the water from the filtrate, it only took about 6 days for a cup of water to evaporate completly, but I doubt anyone's that patient,
gentle heating in a pyrex bowl could speed up the evapration process,
I wouldnt try this, its 4am and I've more than likely forgotten something, or you generally have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, I'll re-type the entire process tommorow after sleep.
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited April 22, 2001).]
firebreether
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posted 11-27-2000 03:32 PM
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Man, tommorrow in a Chem lab we are doing therxn between Mg and HCl to measure some gas produced. Hopefully if I get to sneak a nice strip of the Mag ribbon out I'll make thermite and tell y'all how nice it is.
SafetyLast
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posted 11-27-2000 05:14 PM
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I stole a container with a 40' spool of magnesium ribbon from science a couple weeks ago and it is too damn hard to light. I usually take a torch or a candle to it with the torch it takes 2 seconds and with the candle it takes about 8 or 9 seconds.
I plan on making a couple kilos of thermite and so far I have about 3oz. that I haven't tested. I might "pull a Haggas" and destroy my stereo with some of it
also, is it possible to make cast thermite in the same way you make AP putty?
(Acetone + double base) and put a 4" magnesium ribbon in it
Ctrl_C
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posted 11-29-2000 12:25 AM
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speaking of thermite, i was wondering about the applications of rupturing bottled gas tanks with it. if some were placed on a tank, would it heat the liquid in the tank enough that it expands to beyond the tank's capacity and splits the tank open, or would it burn a nice clean hole right through the tank?
this could prove very promising for mass devastation. think about it. say you have some ANNM or something of the like and would like to oxidize it a bit more. simply get a 5 pound tank of O2 or better yet N2O and attach some sort of thermite charge to it. then whenever you want to detonate, let the thermite burn first, rupturing the tank, and then a split second later you detonate the main charge. it would give it that little extra kick.
FragM
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posted 11-29-2000 07:15 PM
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just a couple of things, that i thought i'd say - thermite/thermit is the name of the reactionnot a brand name (more of a nckname i believe)
Thermite can be CAST using plaster of paris! it must be dry enough on the outside/inside for it to light.This is fantastic, because you can cast a lump, instead ofhaving a powder. With a bit of ingenuity, you could do what i did, which is to make a mold, with a well into the middle of it for the igniting mixture to go - make sure you use a mold release agent (petroleum jelly) or whatever on the mold, otherwise you will never get it out
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The Eagle May Soar But The Weasel Never Gets Sucked Through A Jet Engine
rjche
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posted 11-29-2000 08:44 PM
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Give us your ratio of plaster to mixed thermit please.
Have you found out the limit on how much plaster to mix in with it before it looses its high temp and ability to weld cold steel rails or such?
A fellow wants to cut a chunk off of an abandoned piece of railway rail to make an anvil. Its way out near an abandoned mine railway, so no way to haul torches and all that there. A cast thermit block might just cut it for him, without having to build a heat proof container around it. Lighting it from the rail side could let the outer plaster hold it together till the rail melts.
Tell us all you can about your tests with it, so we don't have to waste so much thermit testing.
FragM
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posted 11-30-2000 09:36 AM
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15-20% plaster of paris to 85% Thermite mix works the best if i remember rightly. mix it dry, then add water, then leave to dry for a longtime in a warm/hot place. Make sure you include a well for the starter otherwise it'll never light (or if you are outside, the powder might keep blowing away...) Good luck with making your anvil! BTW the amount of plaster does make a difference to the temp. Thermite is notthat difficult to make, and to be honest with you, you only need enough plaster to hold it together without it crumbling - you could most probably go well below 15%.
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The Eagle May Soar But The Weasel Never Gets Sucked Through A Jet Engine
aussie_kid
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posted 12-04-2000 02:56 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by BoB-:
I wouldnt try this, its 4am and I've more than likely forgotten something, or you generally have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, I'll re-type the entire process tommorow after sleep.
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BoB do you still have that full process? If so post it on this forum or email it to me please. If not can you remember what the post was called? maybe i can find it on the old thread or something
thx
DarkAngel
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posted 12-04-2000 05:22 AM
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What`s plaster of paris??
--==DarkAngel==--
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Go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!
nbk2000
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posted 12-04-2000 02:16 PM
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I once made a castable incendiary according to the Improvised Munitions book using plaster and aluminum powder. It was the size of a rubics cube and I lit it using a chlorate/sugar mix to ignite a zinc/sulfur mix.
It burned to nothing in a few seconds with a BLINDING white light that lit up the entire underground parking lot brighter than day. It was sitting on a man hole cover but only burned a very superfical amount of it.
If it's made into a brick shape, soaked in linseed oil (so it only burns internally), and has a hole drilled running 2/3 the length filled with igniter mix, then it's supposed to be able to burn a hole through steel plate (no idea how thick).
Perheps attached to a very long stick it could be used as a torch to cut chains or locks.
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MrReTaRdEd
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posted 12-04-2000 05:47 PM
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Im not understanding. Are you saying put my thermite into a mixing bowl with plaster of pairs and mix it together than mold into a square, and it will still burn? What is the petro jelly used for?
Captain Nuke
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posted 01-18-2001 11:54 AM
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We made some Thermite at school. We used a Mg fuse to ignite a KMnO4/Fe dust mix.
I tried igniting Thermite with a simple magnesium fuse before, but it didn't work. But with this mix all over the Thermite, it was easier than making a campfire.
I don't thik that you need magnesium to light it. It was just the only fuse that we have at school.
blackadder
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posted 01-18-2001 03:11 PM
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When I made some at school, my chemistry teacher called it "thermit". I think "thermite" is a name made up by pyros, I may be wrong though.
We had no trouble igniting it with an Mg fuse, either. It burned, throwing loads of sparky stuff everywhere, and when it finished burning, the teacher showed us the red, glowing pure molten iron.
endotherm
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posted 01-24-2001 03:59 PM
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In less this book is wrong which i doubt, the compound of Aluminum And Iron Oxide is called "Thermite", thermite is not the name of the reaction and im preety sure that it's not called Thermit (well at least in america). And for the question about the gas tank,i believe a 400 gram charge of thermite would eat through the metal bfore it pressurized the tank, i put about a 400 grams of thermit in some aluminum foil placed it on a sheet of thick glass and it burned for about 6 seconds and went right through the glass.
spud555555
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From: billerica
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posted 04-12-2001 02:37 PM
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thermite is good stuff, I bought two pounds from firefox, $7 bucks a pound but it is good stuff, but hard to light, not even magnesium ribbon lit it, i have an ignotor mix of potassium perchlorate and steel powder intstead, any way, i have been using it on aerosol cans, i flip them upside down and putt a little (1/2 a dixie cup) on it and it eventually melts throught and causes huge flames, like 5 feet tall and whooshing noise like a rocket engine
CragHack
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posted 04-12-2001 03:24 PM
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actually the Al and Iron Oxide reaction is called a "thermite reaction" that is why it is commenly called thermit. because it produces this kind of reaction.
so yes it is called thermit. look up the word on www.dictionary.com
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...Æ
[This message has been edited by CragHack (edited April 12, 2001).]
Bitter
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posted 04-13-2001 02:48 PM
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Firefox ? Those fuckers never reply to anyone's post from what I hear. I'm surprised you got it.
spud555555
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posted 04-19-2001 09:27 PM
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THats bull, firefox is great, except they said " no hazmat charges" then screwed me when I ordered some fuse and other stuff becuase they charged me two 16 dollar fee's
hodehum
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posted 04-19-2001 10:02 PM
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http://www.pc.chemie.uni-siegen.de/pci/versuche/english/v44-13.html
On this page they used a mixture of barium peroxide and magnesium to ignite Thermit also Thermit is the reaction and commercial name.
Bitter
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posted 04-21-2001 02:44 PM
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It might be alright for you, spud, but I have sent about 5 emails to them and they haven't even answered a single one. Not even to say 'sorry, we can't sell anything to you'.
DarkAngel
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posted 04-21-2001 02:58 PM
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I maked some thermite today and it ignited perfect with a sparkler,But now i have a terrible headache could this have something to do with the fumes from thermite?
I maked Thermite with the Makeshift arsenal methode that`s: 5/3 Iron oxide/AL and with an other methode and that`s 3/2 io/Al
They al work good i didn`t saw any diverance i will test it later.
But what proportions do you guys use?
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DarkAngel
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Anthony
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posted 04-21-2001 04:04 PM
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I believe burning thermite emits a lot of ultra violet light and looking at it can damage your eyesight. This might be what gave you a headache.
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 04-21-2001 04:36 PM
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Hey gang, for those who do not know. You can use many different metallic oxides for
Thermite, not just Iron Oxide (Fe2O3). Examples would be,Cobaltic Oxide, Cupric Oxide, Chromic Oxide,Manganese Dioxide,Nickelic Oxide, etc..
Have fun!
P.S.,Many of these oxides are available at CERAMICS supply shops!
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MacCleod
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posted 04-22-2001 03:26 AM
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Gentlemen,if I'm not mistaken,the word 'thermite' or 'thermit'(commercially) refers to a mix of iron oxide and aluminum (or alum./mag. combo),whereas,the word 'thermate' refers to same,but with an oxidizer added to lower the ignition temp. and increase the burn rate (Check the last chapter in TM 31-201-1,on imp. incendiaries).I've used Firefox's thermite,and I had to light it with a mapp gas torch!.
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited April 22, 2001).]
DarkAngel
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posted 04-22-2001 04:15 AM
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Anthony i didn`t thought about that,Now my head ache is gone but now i have a sore throat.
Yes Alcemist i saw that also on that site i posted with the pictures,
But i always hear about the Iron oxide methode are other oxide`s better,Do they burn hotter or faster?
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DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited April 22, 2001).]
Bitter
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posted 04-22-2001 11:33 AM
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Dark angel, maybe you have caught the flu. I don't think the thermite is to blame for those symptoms- take a few paracetomol and some cough medicine. Heh.
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 04-22-2001 03:56 PM
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Hello all,
DarkAngel, I have made thermite from Chrome Oxide and Al, and also Managnese Dioxide and Al. I started both with a small mixture of Sugar plus Potassium Chlorate and Magnesium ribbon as the fuse. Both burned very fierce and hot, but how hot I do not know. The Oxides are easy for me to get at a local ceramics shop so I just tried different ones.
Of course each Oxide gives of molten showers of that metal.
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PYRO500
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From: somewhere in florida
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posted 04-22-2001 04:13 PM
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about thwe matchheads evaporating in foil, I wouldnt as potassium chlorate is a strong oxidizer and may oxidize the foil! I accidently did this with iodine crystals
BoB-
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posted 04-22-2001 07:10 PM
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I never even though about that, I'll change my posts, ....Pyrex would be fine wouldnt it?
I assumed thermite was a brandname because of the name of the grenades that use them, like the (american)"thermite MK1"
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited April 22, 2001).]
DarkAngel
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posted 04-28-2001 01:52 PM
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You probably know those sticks they use for welding,Is this Thermite with a binder?
If yes i think my thermite is sucks becauce that stuff can burn through thick metal plates in no time.
I tryd to light one but they won't burn.
Im gonna mix Dextrine with Thermite(Maybe i ad some KNO3 to make it burn better)and that i will mix with gasoline and fill a little tube of paper with it,
So when these "Thermite sticks" are dry most of the heat will be forced at one point and will burn better through things.
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DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited April 28, 2001).]
J
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From: United Kingdom
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posted 04-28-2001 02:16 PM
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Welding sticks are just Iron with a flux.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
DarkAngel
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posted 04-28-2001 03:09 PM
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Oh ok,,What's a flux?
I don't know that word
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DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
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PYRO500
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posted 04-28-2001 04:29 PM
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it's this stuff in the center of the rod that melts with the rod and is usualy clear and is a solvent that cleans the joint of grease to make it stick better, it is like the stuff in solder
DarkAngel
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From: ?
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posted 05-01-2001 06:39 PM
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I dreamed about alot of thermite these day's and did some tests with mixing thermite with KNO3.
I found out that i got the best results with 4/1 Thermite/KNO3
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DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-02-2001 10:38 AM
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Hello all,
Here are some more interesting facts on THERMITE or sometimes called the "GOLDSCHMIDT REACTION". Can not remember just where I found this, but I was doing searches at the library for both of the above.
1. Not that they are any easier to get, but just for the info, you can use besides Aluminum, Magnesium, Titanium, and Zirconium.
2.Also believe it or not, besides metal OXIDES you can use metal SULFATES, like Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Barium Sulfate, etc.. The product is not the metal though, it is molten Aluminum!
That's it, have fun!
P.S., If I find the source again I will post it!
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FadeToBlackened
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From: Hell
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posted 05-02-2001 06:32 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
2.Also believe it or not, besides metal OXIDES you can use metal SULFATES, like Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Barium Sulfate, etc.. The product is not the metal though, it is molten Aluminum!
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How exactly does that work?
PHILOU Zrealone
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From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
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posted 05-03-2001 04:46 AM
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No way! Aluminium is oxydised!
Here is an example raction of thos sulfates
3CaSO4 + 2Al --> 3CaO + Al2O3 + 3 SO2 + heat
Here it can explode since you generate a permanent gas (a gas that doesn't liquefy or solidify at ambiant temp) at high temperature. Of course intimate mix is needed as a very fine reactive Al powder (thin oxyd layer)!
My guess is that one of the most dangerous will be with anhydrous (NH4)2SO4!
3(NH4)2SO4 + 2Al --> 6NH3 + 3H2O + Al2O3 + 3SO2 + heat
You can see that here we produce much more gas products!
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J
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From: United Kingdom
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posted 05-03-2001 08:30 AM
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I've attempted to make (NH4)2SO4 thermite, but I couldn't get it to ignite. All components were quite fine, the Al was 300 mesh. I tried using KClO3/sugar/Al both above and below the thermite.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-03-2001 10:51 AM
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Hello all,
Sorry about all the confusion!
Look at Pat# 5,062,903 .
PHILOU, the Floride flux is really not needed for the reaction to take place. Am I correct in saying that?
Al+ CaSO4 =heat + Al2O3 + CaS + Al
P.S., There are many interesting pat's on Thermite, etc..
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[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited May 03, 2001).]
BoB-
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posted 05-03-2001 08:14 PM
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Theres been many mentions of an oxidised layer on Aluminum foil, you can easilly remove this by dipping the sheets in hot Sodium Hydroxide solution, then running under water to remove the sodium hydroxide.
PHILOU Zrealone
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From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
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posted 05-04-2001 04:14 AM
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"PHILOU, the Floride flux is really not needed for the reaction to take place. Am I correct in saying that?"
-Euhhh, Florida is a beatifull state!What do you mean by Floride flux?I have never seen those words together!
"Al+ CaSO4 =heat + Al2O3 + CaS + Al "
Let's see!THis seems a more correct equation!
8Al + 3CaSO4 --> 4Al2O3 + 3CaS + heat
So yes changing the ratio if it was what you asked for (putting an excess of Al can change a bit the reaction products!).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
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posted 05-04-2001 07:13 AM
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I've been thinking: would it be possible to corn thermite into grains about 2 or 3 mm across using dextrin or NC solution and a sieve, and then coat these with, for example, a very thin layer of KClO4/Mg, and then coat them in a very thin layer of BP meal? The effect I'm hoping for is this: the BP will ignite, and set fire to all of the grains very quickly. It will then burn down to the KClO4/Mg, which will burn very hot and set fire to the thermite, which will release a great deal of heat.
I just want a way to reliably make a large amount of thermite burn in a small amount of time, and therefore make the effects of heat much greater because the production of heat isn't so spread out over time.
What do you think? It could make an excellent incendiary (not that I want to burn things down), and would be quite impressive to watch.
Alchemist
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posted 05-04-2001 10:24 AM
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Hello gang,
Real sorry Philou, thouht you may have read the Patient (5,062,903). It states that different Florides (ex; Calcium Floride,etc.) can be added to the Thermite as a flux.
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BoB-
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posted 05-04-2001 03:40 PM
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Mr. Cool, It depends on how thick the layers were, BP can flash around the outside of rice hulls in a very breif moment.
PHILOU Zrealone
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posted 05-11-2001 05:05 AM
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Alchemist:
First of all, floride is totaly unknown anion!But I guess you were speaking of flUoride coming from the FLUOR element F!
Secondly, I stil don't see how it can help for the flux (if this means what it means in french: flow)?
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-11-2001 10:42 AM
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Thanks PHILOU,
SORRY again!
Your correct. I have to pay better attention to my spelling. I try to use the spell checker, but it sometimes works and other times does not.
I do think the Fluoride is just to help with the FLOW (to produce a better weld).
Later then...
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From: ...
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posted 10-01-2000 04:01 AM
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Hello. Has anybody out there produced a nice yield of thermite? If so how nasty was the stuff? Did u try cutting metals with it? What kinda stuff did u do with it? Im just curious as to different experiences people have had with it.
Oh by the way have u got your own special or different formula for making it????
DarkAngel
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From: ?
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posted 10-01-2000 04:13 AM
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Finaly i found magnesium yesterday if you wanna make thermite with Magnesium do you mix it with the same proportion as the Aluminium Thermite recipe?
Anthony
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posted 10-01-2000 06:15 AM
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Where'd you find the Mg DarkAngel?
extreme
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posted 10-01-2000 08:06 AM
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2 parts Iron(III)oxid and 1 part Mg if theres no other oxygene availbe (in vacum )
Otherwise just use some more magnesium.
DarkAngel
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posted 10-01-2000 09:58 AM
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Anthony i found it in a new store in the city it`s a camping store,,Extreme thankzz fore the recipe!!!!!
Arthis
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From:
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posted 10-13-2000 03:18 PM
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There's a simple way of making thermit: iron oxyde with aluminium powder. It is really easy and burns quite easily. You can ignite it with Mg, but it's difficult to find it, or with SC-sugar powder.
Another thermit can be made with iron powder and S, it is used in France to found rails. It is a bit difficult to ignite it, more than the first recipie.
BoB-
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posted 10-13-2000 04:09 PM
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the "average" mix of thermit, Ferric and AL is pretty hard to ignite if both chemicals are made though,
SC-Sucrose sucks, its way too reactive and dangerous for my book,
Kno3-Sulfer burns much hotter than the SC mix and is a little safer, it produces tons of bad smoke though.
Has anyone ever tried old soda cans as containers for thermit?
there aluminum and I imagine they would be beautiful (or retinal destroying) lit up.
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited October 20, 2000).]
Lost
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posted 10-20-2000 06:35 PM
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KNO3-S is hotter than thermite? I'm not sure, but I didn't think that it was...
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-Lost
http://www.noneinc.org
vehemt
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From: Canada
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posted 10-20-2000 07:13 PM
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He stated that kno3 - sulfur would burn hotter than sodium chlorate - sulfur.
Stone
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From:
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posted 10-20-2000 07:48 PM
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I always thought the s was for sugar, not sulphur... learn something new everyday
vehemt
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posted 10-20-2000 08:03 PM
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I should hope they are talking about sulfur as S is its symbol. Sucrose would be C12H22O11.
BoB-
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posted 10-20-2000 08:29 PM
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oops, that was retarded, the SC comment shoulda been SC-Sucrose, and the Kno3 comment shoulda been Kno3-S (Sulphur), I fixed it.
I dont know about its temperature,
but I couldnt look directly at it, it took a small amount of Kno3-Sucrose to ignite it, this may not be nessacary with hotter burning fuses.
ahmondjai
New Member
Posts: 10
From: Brisbane, QLD. Australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 10-20-2000 09:59 PM
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For Mg in camping store, i saw something sort of like fire starters, is that the one?? it comes in a square stick, when u use it, just scarch some off, is that the one u guys r talking about?? if yes, how to mix with rust(the ratio?)and when setting it off, it should b much easier than the one with AL+iron oxide, right??and with what if anyone can suggest anything thats easy to get and use~~
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blade
New Member
Posts: 33
From: sweden
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posted 10-21-2000 04:12 AM
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the Mg "crumbs" can be ignited with a simple match, or a couple of sparks.
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// Blade
DarkAngel
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From: ?
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posted 10-21-2000 05:35 AM
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The kind that i have is a block of Mg with a flint on it and a small string so that you can make it on your key`s or on your pants
[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited April 21, 2001).]
Foodos
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posted 10-22-2000 09:49 PM
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is it thermit? or thermite?
and does just a Sparkler, the little kids type ones, really ignite them? or maybe a long fuse with a few books of matches on the end embedded within the thermite? or is that still not hot enough?
[This message has been edited by Foodos (edited October 22, 2000).]
Cricket
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posted 10-22-2000 10:16 PM
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Thermite is what it usually used, but im far from an expert. Its what I use. I dont know if a book of matches will do the trick or not. I know that Potassium Chlorate burns hot and have heard that it is the main ingrediant in most matches. Give it a shot. I am more for that it wont, it would of been used by now. It would seem much more logical that a sparkler would do. I think they have Magnesium in them.
BoB-
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posted 10-22-2000 11:27 PM
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Pretty sure "Thermite" is a brandname, which is why I've always reffered to the homemade stuff as "thermit".
Matches do indeed contain Potassium Chlorate and a fuel and wax, on the old forum I typed a way to extract it, which I lost, oh well.
Matchheads might ignite thermit, they burn fairly hot, especially when grouped, but it would be kinda shotty to get to work,
I wouldnt bother myself with the trouble.
Cricket
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posted 10-23-2000 12:17 AM
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So after you extract is you would have fairly pure Potassium Chlorate?!?
BoB-
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posted 10-23-2000 02:25 AM
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sorta, filter's arent perfect, there will still be some microscopic bits of fuel in there.
I have very little experience with Sodium Chlorate, does "blasting powder" have a hotter maximum temerature than the potassium chlorate version?
Cricket
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posted 10-23-2000 02:56 AM
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I *think* the Potassium Chlorate is hotter, but if your comparing it to blasting powder, I dont know what all is in it (Sodium Chlorate and sugar?).
Stone
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From:
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posted 10-23-2000 03:32 AM
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I know Sulphur is S in the table of elements, but i thought they were abreviating(can't spell, don't care) things.
BoB-
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posted 10-23-2000 04:04 AM
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The actual dissolving isnt at all hard, boil some water (outside!)
dip a pack of matchs in it, after a small bit of time, all the mix should be removed off the heads,
little balls of yellow wax should form and join in the water, this is normal.
Pour through a coffee filter, saving the filtrate,
now the "fun" part, removing the water from the filtrate, it only took about 6 days for a cup of water to evaporate completly, but I doubt anyone's that patient,
gentle heating in a pyrex bowl could speed up the evapration process,
I wouldnt try this, its 4am and I've more than likely forgotten something, or you generally have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, I'll re-type the entire process tommorow after sleep.
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited April 22, 2001).]
firebreether
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posted 11-27-2000 03:32 PM
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Man, tommorrow in a Chem lab we are doing therxn between Mg and HCl to measure some gas produced. Hopefully if I get to sneak a nice strip of the Mag ribbon out I'll make thermite and tell y'all how nice it is.
SafetyLast
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From: the cretaceous period
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posted 11-27-2000 05:14 PM
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I stole a container with a 40' spool of magnesium ribbon from science a couple weeks ago and it is too damn hard to light. I usually take a torch or a candle to it with the torch it takes 2 seconds and with the candle it takes about 8 or 9 seconds.
I plan on making a couple kilos of thermite and so far I have about 3oz. that I haven't tested. I might "pull a Haggas" and destroy my stereo with some of it
also, is it possible to make cast thermite in the same way you make AP putty?
(Acetone + double base) and put a 4" magnesium ribbon in it
Ctrl_C
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From:
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posted 11-29-2000 12:25 AM
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speaking of thermite, i was wondering about the applications of rupturing bottled gas tanks with it. if some were placed on a tank, would it heat the liquid in the tank enough that it expands to beyond the tank's capacity and splits the tank open, or would it burn a nice clean hole right through the tank?
this could prove very promising for mass devastation. think about it. say you have some ANNM or something of the like and would like to oxidize it a bit more. simply get a 5 pound tank of O2 or better yet N2O and attach some sort of thermite charge to it. then whenever you want to detonate, let the thermite burn first, rupturing the tank, and then a split second later you detonate the main charge. it would give it that little extra kick.
FragM
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From: Sevenoaks, Kent, UK
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posted 11-29-2000 07:15 PM
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just a couple of things, that i thought i'd say - thermite/thermit is the name of the reactionnot a brand name (more of a nckname i believe)
Thermite can be CAST using plaster of paris! it must be dry enough on the outside/inside for it to light.This is fantastic, because you can cast a lump, instead ofhaving a powder. With a bit of ingenuity, you could do what i did, which is to make a mold, with a well into the middle of it for the igniting mixture to go - make sure you use a mold release agent (petroleum jelly) or whatever on the mold, otherwise you will never get it out
------------------
The Eagle May Soar But The Weasel Never Gets Sucked Through A Jet Engine
rjche
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From:
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posted 11-29-2000 08:44 PM
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Give us your ratio of plaster to mixed thermit please.
Have you found out the limit on how much plaster to mix in with it before it looses its high temp and ability to weld cold steel rails or such?
A fellow wants to cut a chunk off of an abandoned piece of railway rail to make an anvil. Its way out near an abandoned mine railway, so no way to haul torches and all that there. A cast thermit block might just cut it for him, without having to build a heat proof container around it. Lighting it from the rail side could let the outer plaster hold it together till the rail melts.
Tell us all you can about your tests with it, so we don't have to waste so much thermit testing.
FragM
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From: Sevenoaks, Kent, UK
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posted 11-30-2000 09:36 AM
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15-20% plaster of paris to 85% Thermite mix works the best if i remember rightly. mix it dry, then add water, then leave to dry for a longtime in a warm/hot place. Make sure you include a well for the starter otherwise it'll never light (or if you are outside, the powder might keep blowing away...) Good luck with making your anvil! BTW the amount of plaster does make a difference to the temp. Thermite is notthat difficult to make, and to be honest with you, you only need enough plaster to hold it together without it crumbling - you could most probably go well below 15%.
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The Eagle May Soar But The Weasel Never Gets Sucked Through A Jet Engine
aussie_kid
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From: Australia
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posted 12-04-2000 02:56 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by BoB-:
I wouldnt try this, its 4am and I've more than likely forgotten something, or you generally have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, I'll re-type the entire process tommorow after sleep.
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BoB do you still have that full process? If so post it on this forum or email it to me please. If not can you remember what the post was called? maybe i can find it on the old thread or something
thx
DarkAngel
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posted 12-04-2000 05:22 AM
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What`s plaster of paris??
--==DarkAngel==--
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Go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
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posted 12-04-2000 02:16 PM
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I once made a castable incendiary according to the Improvised Munitions book using plaster and aluminum powder. It was the size of a rubics cube and I lit it using a chlorate/sugar mix to ignite a zinc/sulfur mix.
It burned to nothing in a few seconds with a BLINDING white light that lit up the entire underground parking lot brighter than day. It was sitting on a man hole cover but only burned a very superfical amount of it.
If it's made into a brick shape, soaked in linseed oil (so it only burns internally), and has a hole drilled running 2/3 the length filled with igniter mix, then it's supposed to be able to burn a hole through steel plate (no idea how thick).
Perheps attached to a very long stick it could be used as a torch to cut chains or locks.
------------------
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Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
MrReTaRdEd
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From: im not saying
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posted 12-04-2000 05:47 PM
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Im not understanding. Are you saying put my thermite into a mixing bowl with plaster of pairs and mix it together than mold into a square, and it will still burn? What is the petro jelly used for?
Captain Nuke
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From:
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posted 01-18-2001 11:54 AM
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We made some Thermite at school. We used a Mg fuse to ignite a KMnO4/Fe dust mix.
I tried igniting Thermite with a simple magnesium fuse before, but it didn't work. But with this mix all over the Thermite, it was easier than making a campfire.
I don't thik that you need magnesium to light it. It was just the only fuse that we have at school.
blackadder
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From: London
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posted 01-18-2001 03:11 PM
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When I made some at school, my chemistry teacher called it "thermit". I think "thermite" is a name made up by pyros, I may be wrong though.
We had no trouble igniting it with an Mg fuse, either. It burned, throwing loads of sparky stuff everywhere, and when it finished burning, the teacher showed us the red, glowing pure molten iron.
endotherm
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From: dunno
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posted 01-24-2001 03:59 PM
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In less this book is wrong which i doubt, the compound of Aluminum And Iron Oxide is called "Thermite", thermite is not the name of the reaction and im preety sure that it's not called Thermit (well at least in america). And for the question about the gas tank,i believe a 400 gram charge of thermite would eat through the metal bfore it pressurized the tank, i put about a 400 grams of thermit in some aluminum foil placed it on a sheet of thick glass and it burned for about 6 seconds and went right through the glass.
spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
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posted 04-12-2001 02:37 PM
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thermite is good stuff, I bought two pounds from firefox, $7 bucks a pound but it is good stuff, but hard to light, not even magnesium ribbon lit it, i have an ignotor mix of potassium perchlorate and steel powder intstead, any way, i have been using it on aerosol cans, i flip them upside down and putt a little (1/2 a dixie cup) on it and it eventually melts throught and causes huge flames, like 5 feet tall and whooshing noise like a rocket engine
CragHack
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From:
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posted 04-12-2001 03:24 PM
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actually the Al and Iron Oxide reaction is called a "thermite reaction" that is why it is commenly called thermit. because it produces this kind of reaction.
so yes it is called thermit. look up the word on www.dictionary.com
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...Æ
[This message has been edited by CragHack (edited April 12, 2001).]
Bitter
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From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
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posted 04-13-2001 02:48 PM
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Firefox ? Those fuckers never reply to anyone's post from what I hear. I'm surprised you got it.
spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
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posted 04-19-2001 09:27 PM
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THats bull, firefox is great, except they said " no hazmat charges" then screwed me when I ordered some fuse and other stuff becuase they charged me two 16 dollar fee's
hodehum
New Member
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From: New Zealand
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posted 04-19-2001 10:02 PM
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http://www.pc.chemie.uni-siegen.de/pci/versuche/english/v44-13.html
On this page they used a mixture of barium peroxide and magnesium to ignite Thermit also Thermit is the reaction and commercial name.
Bitter
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From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
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posted 04-21-2001 02:44 PM
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It might be alright for you, spud, but I have sent about 5 emails to them and they haven't even answered a single one. Not even to say 'sorry, we can't sell anything to you'.
DarkAngel
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From: ?
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posted 04-21-2001 02:58 PM
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I maked some thermite today and it ignited perfect with a sparkler,But now i have a terrible headache could this have something to do with the fumes from thermite?
I maked Thermite with the Makeshift arsenal methode that`s: 5/3 Iron oxide/AL and with an other methode and that`s 3/2 io/Al
They al work good i didn`t saw any diverance i will test it later.
But what proportions do you guys use?
------------------
DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Anthony
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posted 04-21-2001 04:04 PM
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I believe burning thermite emits a lot of ultra violet light and looking at it can damage your eyesight. This might be what gave you a headache.
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 04-21-2001 04:36 PM
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Hey gang, for those who do not know. You can use many different metallic oxides for
Thermite, not just Iron Oxide (Fe2O3). Examples would be,Cobaltic Oxide, Cupric Oxide, Chromic Oxide,Manganese Dioxide,Nickelic Oxide, etc..
Have fun!
P.S.,Many of these oxides are available at CERAMICS supply shops!
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MacCleod
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From:
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posted 04-22-2001 03:26 AM
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Gentlemen,if I'm not mistaken,the word 'thermite' or 'thermit'(commercially) refers to a mix of iron oxide and aluminum (or alum./mag. combo),whereas,the word 'thermate' refers to same,but with an oxidizer added to lower the ignition temp. and increase the burn rate (Check the last chapter in TM 31-201-1,on imp. incendiaries).I've used Firefox's thermite,and I had to light it with a mapp gas torch!.
[This message has been edited by MacCleod (edited April 22, 2001).]
DarkAngel
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posted 04-22-2001 04:15 AM
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Anthony i didn`t thought about that,Now my head ache is gone but now i have a sore throat.
Yes Alcemist i saw that also on that site i posted with the pictures,
But i always hear about the Iron oxide methode are other oxide`s better,Do they burn hotter or faster?
------------------
DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited April 22, 2001).]
Bitter
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posted 04-22-2001 11:33 AM
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Dark angel, maybe you have caught the flu. I don't think the thermite is to blame for those symptoms- take a few paracetomol and some cough medicine. Heh.
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 04-22-2001 03:56 PM
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Hello all,
DarkAngel, I have made thermite from Chrome Oxide and Al, and also Managnese Dioxide and Al. I started both with a small mixture of Sugar plus Potassium Chlorate and Magnesium ribbon as the fuse. Both burned very fierce and hot, but how hot I do not know. The Oxides are easy for me to get at a local ceramics shop so I just tried different ones.
Of course each Oxide gives of molten showers of that metal.
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PYRO500
Moderator
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From: somewhere in florida
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posted 04-22-2001 04:13 PM
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about thwe matchheads evaporating in foil, I wouldnt as potassium chlorate is a strong oxidizer and may oxidize the foil! I accidently did this with iodine crystals
BoB-
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From:
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posted 04-22-2001 07:10 PM
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I never even though about that, I'll change my posts, ....Pyrex would be fine wouldnt it?
I assumed thermite was a brandname because of the name of the grenades that use them, like the (american)"thermite MK1"
[This message has been edited by BoB- (edited April 22, 2001).]
DarkAngel
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From: ?
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posted 04-28-2001 01:52 PM
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You probably know those sticks they use for welding,Is this Thermite with a binder?
If yes i think my thermite is sucks becauce that stuff can burn through thick metal plates in no time.
I tryd to light one but they won't burn.
Im gonna mix Dextrine with Thermite(Maybe i ad some KNO3 to make it burn better)and that i will mix with gasoline and fill a little tube of paper with it,
So when these "Thermite sticks" are dry most of the heat will be forced at one point and will burn better through things.
------------------
DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by DarkAngel (edited April 28, 2001).]
J
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From: United Kingdom
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posted 04-28-2001 02:16 PM
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Welding sticks are just Iron with a flux.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
DarkAngel
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From: ?
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posted 04-28-2001 03:09 PM
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Oh ok,,What's a flux?
I don't know that word
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DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-28-2001 04:29 PM
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it's this stuff in the center of the rod that melts with the rod and is usualy clear and is a solvent that cleans the joint of grease to make it stick better, it is like the stuff in solder
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-01-2001 06:39 PM
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I dreamed about alot of thermite these day's and did some tests with mixing thermite with KNO3.
I found out that i got the best results with 4/1 Thermite/KNO3
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DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-02-2001 10:38 AM
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Hello all,
Here are some more interesting facts on THERMITE or sometimes called the "GOLDSCHMIDT REACTION". Can not remember just where I found this, but I was doing searches at the library for both of the above.
1. Not that they are any easier to get, but just for the info, you can use besides Aluminum, Magnesium, Titanium, and Zirconium.
2.Also believe it or not, besides metal OXIDES you can use metal SULFATES, like Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Barium Sulfate, etc.. The product is not the metal though, it is molten Aluminum!
That's it, have fun!
P.S., If I find the source again I will post it!
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FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-02-2001 06:32 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
2.Also believe it or not, besides metal OXIDES you can use metal SULFATES, like Calcium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Barium Sulfate, etc.. The product is not the metal though, it is molten Aluminum!
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How exactly does that work?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 04:46 AM
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No way! Aluminium is oxydised!
Here is an example raction of thos sulfates
3CaSO4 + 2Al --> 3CaO + Al2O3 + 3 SO2 + heat
Here it can explode since you generate a permanent gas (a gas that doesn't liquefy or solidify at ambiant temp) at high temperature. Of course intimate mix is needed as a very fine reactive Al powder (thin oxyd layer)!
My guess is that one of the most dangerous will be with anhydrous (NH4)2SO4!
3(NH4)2SO4 + 2Al --> 6NH3 + 3H2O + Al2O3 + 3SO2 + heat
You can see that here we produce much more gas products!
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 08:30 AM
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I've attempted to make (NH4)2SO4 thermite, but I couldn't get it to ignite. All components were quite fine, the Al was 300 mesh. I tried using KClO3/sugar/Al both above and below the thermite.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 10:51 AM
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Hello all,
Sorry about all the confusion!
Look at Pat# 5,062,903 .
PHILOU, the Floride flux is really not needed for the reaction to take place. Am I correct in saying that?
Al+ CaSO4 =heat + Al2O3 + CaS + Al
P.S., There are many interesting pat's on Thermite, etc..
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[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited May 03, 2001).]
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 08:14 PM
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Theres been many mentions of an oxidised layer on Aluminum foil, you can easilly remove this by dipping the sheets in hot Sodium Hydroxide solution, then running under water to remove the sodium hydroxide.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-04-2001 04:14 AM
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"PHILOU, the Floride flux is really not needed for the reaction to take place. Am I correct in saying that?"
-Euhhh, Florida is a beatifull state!What do you mean by Floride flux?I have never seen those words together!
"Al+ CaSO4 =heat + Al2O3 + CaS + Al "
Let's see!THis seems a more correct equation!
8Al + 3CaSO4 --> 4Al2O3 + 3CaS + heat
So yes changing the ratio if it was what you asked for (putting an excess of Al can change a bit the reaction products!).
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-04-2001 07:13 AM
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I've been thinking: would it be possible to corn thermite into grains about 2 or 3 mm across using dextrin or NC solution and a sieve, and then coat these with, for example, a very thin layer of KClO4/Mg, and then coat them in a very thin layer of BP meal? The effect I'm hoping for is this: the BP will ignite, and set fire to all of the grains very quickly. It will then burn down to the KClO4/Mg, which will burn very hot and set fire to the thermite, which will release a great deal of heat.
I just want a way to reliably make a large amount of thermite burn in a small amount of time, and therefore make the effects of heat much greater because the production of heat isn't so spread out over time.
What do you think? It could make an excellent incendiary (not that I want to burn things down), and would be quite impressive to watch.
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-04-2001 10:24 AM
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Hello gang,
Real sorry Philou, thouht you may have read the Patient (5,062,903). It states that different Florides (ex; Calcium Floride,etc.) can be added to the Thermite as a flux.
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BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-04-2001 03:40 PM
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Mr. Cool, It depends on how thick the layers were, BP can flash around the outside of rice hulls in a very breif moment.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-11-2001 05:05 AM
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Alchemist:
First of all, floride is totaly unknown anion!But I guess you were speaking of flUoride coming from the FLUOR element F!
Secondly, I stil don't see how it can help for the flux (if this means what it means in french: flow)?
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-11-2001 10:42 AM
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Thanks PHILOU,
SORRY again!
Your correct. I have to pay better attention to my spelling. I try to use the spell checker, but it sometimes works and other times does not.
I do think the Fluoride is just to help with the FLOW (to produce a better weld).
Later then...