megalomania
June 9th, 2003, 06:10 PM
boomfreak
New Member
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock Ar Us
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 08:08 AM
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Just lately I started playing with flash powder and it seemed to me like you just couldn't have too many topics on something that awesome. What prompted me to write is there seems to be a real lack of good technical info on the stuff. I have a book that claims that if you double the amount of powder, the force of the explosion goes up 8 times. I've become fairly adept at improvising parts(I live in the bible belt)and I'd like to hear any Ideas on cases or the power you may have. So far i'm using ping pong balls and 5" sticks of a roll of kraft paper with wooden dowell end plugs. Thanks
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 10:06 AM
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How do you measure power in this context? And I'd be very suspicious of any book that made that claim. There are already past posts on making firecrackers (including different end plugs etc), I think the subject has been done to death. If you have any new information to add, do so. If not, think carefully before starting a new topic in the future.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 05:09 PM
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I actually have heard claims in article from other newsgroups, of things like 4 times the flash powder is 32 times the power, and it goes up exponentially
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:36 AM
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Hey,boomfreak,hears a good way to boost the power of your pingpong ball casings.get a stick of epoxy putty,cut it into 4 or 5 even sections.Mix a piece up,then mold it evenly over the ball,allow to dry.Then drill a 1/8th. in. hole into it,fill with your flash,epoxy your fuse in.Way more bang for your buck!.Just make sure to throw them far enough away to avoid being hit with the shrapnel.
Don't know about vol. increase/power increase,but i've read that filling the case more than 1/3rd. to half full doesn't necissarily give a louder report.
-A-
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Posts: 100
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 02:17 AM
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Haha MacCleod, I thought that using epoxy to cover ping pong balls was an original idea of mine and then I read this. Everything one discovers or creates has been done before haha.
Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 03:13 AM
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For end plugs I used wooden dowls also, but after I put them in I took mechanical wire and wrapped it ouround the ends and tightened it with pliers so the end caps wouldn't pop out.
Now I use (plaster of paris)
really good stuff for end caps.
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"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s
PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:17 AM
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Instead of a pingpong balls, you can use plastic christmass ball used to decorate christmass trees...cheap, different sizes and stronger because thicker!!!
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
blackadder
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Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:36 PM
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good for a christmas shrapnel surprise present!
spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-25-2001 05:36 PM
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Instead of doing all of those things wiht ping pong balls, buy the mini easter eggs and instead of using epoxy, there is this stuff called "quikrete" which is little cans of fast drying cement(15 minutes) and is extremely strong and works much greater than epoxy for containing explosives.
endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 07:42 PM
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Boomfreak, you wanna see what i call an m-80, check the Miscalleaneous: Forum Media section and check out the pic i posted, i real man's m-80 is made of 1/4 inch thick pressure hardened aluminum
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited April 25, 2001).]
EP
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Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-27-2001 12:54 AM
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Another way to make good endplugs is mixing sawdust with wood glue. Make it pretty thick with sawdust or the glue will take forever to dry.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 03:10 AM
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I always use epoxy, in two part syringes. It costs about $2 australian dollars to make the casings for 5 small crackers. if you buy th more expensive stuff, it comes to about $10. Where do you get a stick of epoxy?
Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-02-2001 04:13 AM
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You can get the stuff for repairing gas tank holes its like putty, a round thing with the hardner inside with the epoxy around it, you just mix it with your fingers and it hardens in like 15 minutes
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-02-2001 02:06 PM
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For instructions on how to make good salutes, I recomend the books, Simple Salutes, and The Firecracker Cookbook. They are both very good books. One (Simple Salutes) suggests using coat hanger tubes for the cases. I have used them before with rocket engine powder(the book suggests flash, but I don't have any), and they made a nice bang. The Firecracker Cookbook suggests either buying cases, scrounging for them, or making them yourself. Out of all these, I prefer making them myself, they are much louder, even when using just shotgun powder, or rocket engine powder. You can dry roll cases, but I don't recomend it since it gives very bad reports(the cases aren't very strong because they're just paper), but if you wet roll the cases, by wrapping a strip of kraft paper around a dowel 1.5 times(without wetting), then covering the rest of the strip with glue and rolling it, they make awesome firecrackers.
I haven't used dowels very much to make endplugs, I prefer to use a piece of a coathanger tube. You cut a piece off about 1/4" to 1/2" and form it into a "rolled U" shape, you then shove it into the case(this only works if the case is 1/2") and epoxy it. Fill the case up 1/3 of the way with powder(do this by making a little scoop 1/3 the size of the case) then you make another endplug, but this time put the fuse through the "rolled U" and epoxy that in.
I have a lot of different flash formulas that I got from the books I have, if any of you want them, I'll post them.
-chair
richl261
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Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-02-2001 02:21 PM
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cook...book?
who'd need a "cookbook" for m-80s?
BoB-
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Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 03:08 PM
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Wooden dowel works great, but man does it hurt when one hits you, something to remember.
You can order paper plugs and endcaps from pyrotechnic suppliers.
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-02-2001 03:37 PM
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It's not like the Anarchist Cookbook, it's a very good book that gives safety tips, and ways to make different firecrackers.
MacCleod
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Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-02-2001 11:51 PM
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I stamp end plugs out of cardboard with a set of gasket punches.They range from 1/8th. to 1-1/4 inch in size.
Chair-have you seen ALENGOSVIG1's site?.He's got two major flash files,"165 flash comp.'s",and "Pyrotechnic Formulary Page".The PFP also has info on just about every other pyrotechnic device.
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 12:25 AM
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Hello all,
Try dipping your M-80's in PLASTER of PARIS and letting them dry! You can mix the plaster thin or thick as desired! Also you can redip as many times as ya like. It makes a good hard coating, it's cheap, and easy. Makes a real loud M-80, etc.. Have fun......
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[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited May 03, 2001).]
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 01:12 AM
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why roll your own cases, the rolls from inside aluminium foil rolls are 'bout 1/8 inch thick, and plug really easy using quick dry epoxy. It is also easy to roll paper around a dowel, slide the dowel out and glue, then plug with some of the same dowel. These can be easily drille through to accept a fuse.
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 06:26 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by MacCleod:
Chair-have you seen ALENGOSVIG1's site?.He's got two major flash files,"165 flash comp.'s",and "Pyrotechnic Formulary Page".The PFP also has info on just about every other pyrotechnic device.
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I am trying but, it seems to be down at the moment.
Alchemist: You can also use Silica(AKA Water Glass) to coat the M-80's, I'm not sure of the performance difference, but I've heard that plaster can break into shrapnel. That's certainly not something I want with a firecracker that I may be using in a residential setting(4th of July is soon, 2 months!).
[edited: I visited the wrong website]
[This message has been edited by chair (edited May 03, 2001).]
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 08:30 AM
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Most (if not all) of the commercial firecrackers I've seen use either plaster or some kind of clay as end plugs. I can attest that plaster of paris makes very good plugs ;-) So long as you make them thick enough, they shouldn't shatter.
I have a copy of the original pfp database on my site. It's been renamed and is being updated by someone other than the author, I can't remember the site off-hand.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 02:37 PM
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Hello all,
Chair, I think your right! I believe the original Cherry bombs used "Water Glass" mixed with a sawdust or simular filler!
P.S.1, yes what is that web sight again!
P.S.2, has anyone made a good homemade fuse that will go into a homemade Cherry bomb or firecraker? Mine keep stopping at the hole!
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chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 02:41 PM
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(In response to J's post):
I would prefer the endplug shatter, smaller shrapnel pieces.
Of all of the commercial firecrackers I have used and disassembled, they all use a red colored clay as end plugs. The larger ones available(Not more powerful, they still contain <50mg flash, but they are in a larger case) use clay that looks as it had been moistened, then compressed and dried. But I have never seen a commercial(or bootleg) firecracker using plaster.. Maybe it's because we live in different places... I live on the east coast U.S.A.
My favorite kind of endplug is made out of kraft paper. I take a wad of kraft, cover it in elmers glue, and ram it down into the case I'm using.. I then let it sit for about 30 seconds to a minute, and push it out. I repeat, but this time I don't push it out. I drill the hole(either in the case, or the endplug, it depends on the length of the case, for longer crackers I drill the endplug) for the fuse, then I put the powder into the case, and glue the other plug in... I always finish it off with about 4 layers of packaging tape(it has strings through it, to give it strength) to make sure the endplugs don't blow out.
-chair
[This message has been edited by chair (edited May 03, 2001).]
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 02:56 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
Hello all,
Chair, I think your right! I believe the original Cherry bombs used "Water Glass" mixed with a sawdust or simular filler!
P.S.1, yes what is that web sight again!
P.S.2, has anyone made a good homemade fuse that will go into a homemade Cherry bomb or firecraker? Mine keep stopping at the hole!
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A book I have describes the process that original cherry bombs were made. It is extremely dangerous though, because drilling of the fuse hold is done after the case is filled and sealed. The process basicly is, take a spherical cup set, and fill the smaller half with flash, place the larger half over the smaller half, and glue it together. You then dip the cherry in some elmers glue, and roll it in fine sawdust. Then you dip the now dry cherry in sodium silicate solution and roll it in even finer saw dust, the next step is to dip the cherry in sodium silicate solution again and roll it in sawdust that is dyed red. Then you drill the fuse hold and insert fuse, you then glue the fuse in.
I do not recomend this method as you have to drill into flash, and that is extremely dangerous. A much safer approach would be to drill the cup set first, and insert and glue the fuse. Then glue the cups together and do the dipping and the rolling, etc..
I have never used this method, but it supposedly gives very good reports.
-chair
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 04:27 PM
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Here is the fuse that I make, it is very reliable, and burns well. It'd be a bitch to make unless you are in the UK though, in which case it'd be very easy. Here it is
[This message has been edited by zaibatsu (edited May 03, 2001).]
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 05:52 PM
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Alchemist, blackmatch is fine so long as you don't bend it too much. I have methods on my website for making several variations. Zaibatsu's fuse will probably be easier if you can find some NaClO3.
Chair, I live in the UK. Firecrackers have been banned for several years now, but when they were on sale the good one's were plugged with some white plaster. I've seen the red clay used in french crackers, but again they sometimes use white plaster.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Anthony
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Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 06:26 PM
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50mg?! That's a fucking insanely small amount of flash!
Do plaster of paris plugs grip paper tubes well? I used to use quickly setting cement but the plugs didn't grip the insides of the tube very well and just blew out. I switched to pressed/rammed clay because they *never* just blow out, but plaster of paris would be easier.
A number of fireworks I've seen (like air-bombs) are plugged with lightly pressed clay granules, rather than a clay pressed into a solid, hard plug. I think this is because if the plug blows, it will turn back into it's component granules, thus creating no dnagerous schrapnel.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 06:34 PM
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Yeah, I find they do, but if you have a slow burning comp. such as KClO3/Sugar, I'd put a screw through the tube first, to give it something to form around. If safety is your thing, use thin balsa instead of a screw.
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 10:24 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by J:
Chair, I live in the UK. Firecrackers have been banned for several years now, but when they were on sale the good one's were plugged with some white plaster. I've seen the red clay used in french crackers, but again they sometimes use white plaster.
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Unfortunatly, I haven't been alive long enough to actually buy a legal firecracker that holds more than 50mg flash. They were banned over here in the U.S. in '66. So I've never seen a military issue M-80, or even a bootleg. So I have no idea what "the good ones" are plugged with over here. I assume it's either a wooden, or "hardened paper"(paper soaked in glue and rammed down the tube) plug.
Anthony:
Of course it's an insanely small amount of flash, but I guess the government thinks that it's the largest amount that can be "safely" used. It really sucks.. They give Ok reports, but they destroy nothing, a soda can simply bulges out and smokes when one is let off inside.. Although, when I fuse about 5 of them together, it's a pretty cool effect
By the way, does any body know the most optimal amount of flash to use in M-80 style crackers? The U.S. government completely filled the case with flash, without any airspace. But this isn't a very efficient use of flash. I heard the best amount to use is 1/3 the volume of the case.
-chair
J
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Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-04-2001 02:28 PM
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It depends on the comp. With fast burning flash, 1/3 to 1/2 should be fine. It depends whether you want the loudest bang using the smallest amount of powder, or the most powerful explosion possible for a given case size. If it's the latter, I'd suggest filling it to the top.
For slower burning comps, filling them to the top works best in my experience. Don't press it at all, just fill it up.
The best exploding firework available to buy in the UK is the Air Bomb. It's an arial salute, and it is very loud and quite powerful for it's size. There can't be more than a gram of flash, probably around half that. Yet they are as loud as some of the large French crackers, and quite destructive if the salute is 'accidentally' fired into the ground rather than the air ;-)
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-04-2001 02:42 PM
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We have similar "fireworks" over in the U.S. They are called "BirdBombs" and are used for scaring away birds. They are basicly 0.5 grams of flash attached to a rocket. You fire it with a launcher that is about 2x the thickness of a pencil, and the same length. You insert a shotgun shell primer into the launcher, screw the launcher together, put the device into the launcher, and activate the trigger mechanism.. The device flies about 50 yards then goes off with a very loud bang. I've shot them into the ground before, and they leave a nice bare spot on the dirt with about 5" radius.
I was thinking of disassembling these jewels for their flash content, but decided against it because I didn't want it to blow up in my face.
Thanks for the information about the flash, BTW. Let's say I have a case that is 1/2" x 1.5", how much flash should I use in that? How many grams is it?
Thanks,
-chair
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-04-2001 06:08 PM
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Hello gang,
Chair, Thanks for the feed back! I also live in the U.S.. Do those bird bombs require a permit and where can ya get them. Also have you found a good source for Chlorates here?
That book sounds pretting good! What else does it cover! Bye any chance do ya have it scanned or posted anywhere?
Thanks......................................
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CragHack
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Posts: 618
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-04-2001 07:56 PM
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you have to look for chlorates. it took me a while to find a chlorate and it isn't even very good (NaCLO3) i mean it will suffice but it kinda pisses me off that i can't find the potasium derivitive. Anyway, i found mine at a local garden supply store. i would suggest staying away from the home depots, and the Lowes. Try and look for the mom and pop shops. they should have it.
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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."
zaibatsu
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Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 05:02 AM
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Crag, go to www.connect.to/juice and use that method to convert NaClO3 to KClO3
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 07:44 AM
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Chair, off the top of my head, perhaps 3 to 5g if that's the inside dimensions that will be filled. Don't bother carefully weighing out the flash, just fill up the case.
Those bird bombs sound too useful to canibalise for the flash.
Potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate is more difficult to find than strong acids and (IMO) much more dangerous chemicals. Certain chemicals are generally hard to find more because they have no 'home' uses rather than being restricted.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-05-2001 08:45 AM
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Alchemist: I purchased them at a gun show. But they can be ordered via mail as well. You don't need any permits, they are "For agricultural use only". In certain catalogs(Firequest comes to mind: http://www.firequest.com/ ) They sell these things.. but they are for use on the ground! They're basically birdbombs with a fuse!
http://www.firequest.com/catalog/smoke_generators_bombs.html
What book were you talking about, Alchemist?
J: 3 to 5 grams?!? That is a lot of flash! What would be an appropriate amount for using in a residential area? I'm thinking around 0.5 grams.
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 12:53 PM
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That depends on your neighbours ;-) Seriously, letting them off in a residential area will probably attract unwanted attention, unless it's a celebration of some kind (4th July for the US). No matter how little flash you use, the explosion will be very audible. You'd be better off going out into the countryside.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-05-2001 01:33 PM
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Hi Chair, the one on Cherry Bombs! What books do ya have? Any of them posted anywhere? Thanks!
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richl261
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Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-06-2001 08:02 AM
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zaibatsu, that recipe for the s/c fuse is a bit drawn out...all i do is boil string in s/c solution for 5 mins and hey presto!
still, the same effect though
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-06-2001 11:09 AM
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Its long yeah, but its in a lot of detail. All it really is Kitchen roll soaked in NaClO3/NaCl solution, dried, cut and rolled up!
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-06-2001 11:37 AM
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J:I'm going to be letting the firecrackers off for 4th of July..
Alchemist: The book is really big. I'll scan the index(some time tomorrow) and you can decide which sections you want(I'll eventually scan the entire book, but I don't have enough time right now).
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-06-2001 11:49 AM
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Thanks Chair,
I know what ya mean when it comes to no time!
E-mail me at Alchemist_0@hotmail.com
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boomfreak
New Member
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock Ar Us
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-08-2001 11:53 PM
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Thanks for the tips guys. I just had an evil thought, you could remove most of the cotton from inside of a zippo lighter, add a 3/16" fuse up through the wick then fill with a healthy amount of flash. If thats already been mentioned I apologize (I looked)
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-09-2001 06:45 AM
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Sorry to pick on you again, but there has been at least one big thread on this. However, it might have been before the big forum crash. It is a fairly stupid and dangerous thing to do, just stick to crackers.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
PYRO500
Moderator
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From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-09-2001 03:32 PM
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I almost lost a finger to something like that
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-15-2001 06:29 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
Thanks Chair,
I know what ya mean when it comes to no time!
E-mail me at Alchemist_0@hotmail.com
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I said I'd have the index for you a few days ago, but exams are starting this week, and I have absolutely no time to do anything besides study. I'll get it to you as soon as I can. Which probably won't be until monday afternoon, which is the end of the county required exams..
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-15-2001 10:02 AM
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Thanks Chair,
No problem!
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mark
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From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-29-2001 03:00 PM
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Sorry to revive an old thread, but if you have flash, you can make blockbusters by filling a film canister with flash.
And, concerning end plugs, Most illegal, out of the van firecrackers have wax or epoxy endplugs. When I lit a comercial blockbuster, the wax endplug was welded onto the concrete after the blast.
also, how loud are those birdbombs? What explosive would they be equivilint to? m80? Blockbuster?
New Member
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock Ar Us
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 08:08 AM
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Just lately I started playing with flash powder and it seemed to me like you just couldn't have too many topics on something that awesome. What prompted me to write is there seems to be a real lack of good technical info on the stuff. I have a book that claims that if you double the amount of powder, the force of the explosion goes up 8 times. I've become fairly adept at improvising parts(I live in the bible belt)and I'd like to hear any Ideas on cases or the power you may have. So far i'm using ping pong balls and 5" sticks of a roll of kraft paper with wooden dowell end plugs. Thanks
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 10:06 AM
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How do you measure power in this context? And I'd be very suspicious of any book that made that claim. There are already past posts on making firecrackers (including different end plugs etc), I think the subject has been done to death. If you have any new information to add, do so. If not, think carefully before starting a new topic in the future.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 05:09 PM
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I actually have heard claims in article from other newsgroups, of things like 4 times the flash powder is 32 times the power, and it goes up exponentially
MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:36 AM
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Hey,boomfreak,hears a good way to boost the power of your pingpong ball casings.get a stick of epoxy putty,cut it into 4 or 5 even sections.Mix a piece up,then mold it evenly over the ball,allow to dry.Then drill a 1/8th. in. hole into it,fill with your flash,epoxy your fuse in.Way more bang for your buck!.Just make sure to throw them far enough away to avoid being hit with the shrapnel.
Don't know about vol. increase/power increase,but i've read that filling the case more than 1/3rd. to half full doesn't necissarily give a louder report.
-A-
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From:
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posted 04-25-2001 02:17 AM
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Haha MacCleod, I thought that using epoxy to cover ping pong balls was an original idea of mine and then I read this. Everything one discovers or creates has been done before haha.
Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 03:13 AM
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For end plugs I used wooden dowls also, but after I put them in I took mechanical wire and wrapped it ouround the ends and tightened it with pliers so the end caps wouldn't pop out.
Now I use (plaster of paris)
really good stuff for end caps.
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"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s
PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:17 AM
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Instead of a pingpong balls, you can use plastic christmass ball used to decorate christmass trees...cheap, different sizes and stronger because thicker!!!
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
blackadder
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Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:36 PM
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good for a christmas shrapnel surprise present!
spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-25-2001 05:36 PM
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Instead of doing all of those things wiht ping pong balls, buy the mini easter eggs and instead of using epoxy, there is this stuff called "quikrete" which is little cans of fast drying cement(15 minutes) and is extremely strong and works much greater than epoxy for containing explosives.
endotherm
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Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 07:42 PM
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Boomfreak, you wanna see what i call an m-80, check the Miscalleaneous: Forum Media section and check out the pic i posted, i real man's m-80 is made of 1/4 inch thick pressure hardened aluminum
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited April 25, 2001).]
EP
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Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-27-2001 12:54 AM
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Another way to make good endplugs is mixing sawdust with wood glue. Make it pretty thick with sawdust or the glue will take forever to dry.
SATANIC
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Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 03:10 AM
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I always use epoxy, in two part syringes. It costs about $2 australian dollars to make the casings for 5 small crackers. if you buy th more expensive stuff, it comes to about $10. Where do you get a stick of epoxy?
Teck
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From:
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posted 05-02-2001 04:13 AM
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You can get the stuff for repairing gas tank holes its like putty, a round thing with the hardner inside with the epoxy around it, you just mix it with your fingers and it hardens in like 15 minutes
chair
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From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-02-2001 02:06 PM
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For instructions on how to make good salutes, I recomend the books, Simple Salutes, and The Firecracker Cookbook. They are both very good books. One (Simple Salutes) suggests using coat hanger tubes for the cases. I have used them before with rocket engine powder(the book suggests flash, but I don't have any), and they made a nice bang. The Firecracker Cookbook suggests either buying cases, scrounging for them, or making them yourself. Out of all these, I prefer making them myself, they are much louder, even when using just shotgun powder, or rocket engine powder. You can dry roll cases, but I don't recomend it since it gives very bad reports(the cases aren't very strong because they're just paper), but if you wet roll the cases, by wrapping a strip of kraft paper around a dowel 1.5 times(without wetting), then covering the rest of the strip with glue and rolling it, they make awesome firecrackers.
I haven't used dowels very much to make endplugs, I prefer to use a piece of a coathanger tube. You cut a piece off about 1/4" to 1/2" and form it into a "rolled U" shape, you then shove it into the case(this only works if the case is 1/2") and epoxy it. Fill the case up 1/3 of the way with powder(do this by making a little scoop 1/3 the size of the case) then you make another endplug, but this time put the fuse through the "rolled U" and epoxy that in.
I have a lot of different flash formulas that I got from the books I have, if any of you want them, I'll post them.
-chair
richl261
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Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-02-2001 02:21 PM
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cook...book?
who'd need a "cookbook" for m-80s?
BoB-
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From:
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posted 05-02-2001 03:08 PM
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Wooden dowel works great, but man does it hurt when one hits you, something to remember.
You can order paper plugs and endcaps from pyrotechnic suppliers.
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-02-2001 03:37 PM
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It's not like the Anarchist Cookbook, it's a very good book that gives safety tips, and ways to make different firecrackers.
MacCleod
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Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-02-2001 11:51 PM
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I stamp end plugs out of cardboard with a set of gasket punches.They range from 1/8th. to 1-1/4 inch in size.
Chair-have you seen ALENGOSVIG1's site?.He's got two major flash files,"165 flash comp.'s",and "Pyrotechnic Formulary Page".The PFP also has info on just about every other pyrotechnic device.
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 12:25 AM
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Hello all,
Try dipping your M-80's in PLASTER of PARIS and letting them dry! You can mix the plaster thin or thick as desired! Also you can redip as many times as ya like. It makes a good hard coating, it's cheap, and easy. Makes a real loud M-80, etc.. Have fun......
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[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited May 03, 2001).]
SATANIC
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Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 01:12 AM
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why roll your own cases, the rolls from inside aluminium foil rolls are 'bout 1/8 inch thick, and plug really easy using quick dry epoxy. It is also easy to roll paper around a dowel, slide the dowel out and glue, then plug with some of the same dowel. These can be easily drille through to accept a fuse.
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 06:26 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by MacCleod:
Chair-have you seen ALENGOSVIG1's site?.He's got two major flash files,"165 flash comp.'s",and "Pyrotechnic Formulary Page".The PFP also has info on just about every other pyrotechnic device.
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I am trying but, it seems to be down at the moment.
Alchemist: You can also use Silica(AKA Water Glass) to coat the M-80's, I'm not sure of the performance difference, but I've heard that plaster can break into shrapnel. That's certainly not something I want with a firecracker that I may be using in a residential setting(4th of July is soon, 2 months!).
[edited: I visited the wrong website]
[This message has been edited by chair (edited May 03, 2001).]
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 08:30 AM
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Most (if not all) of the commercial firecrackers I've seen use either plaster or some kind of clay as end plugs. I can attest that plaster of paris makes very good plugs ;-) So long as you make them thick enough, they shouldn't shatter.
I have a copy of the original pfp database on my site. It's been renamed and is being updated by someone other than the author, I can't remember the site off-hand.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 02:37 PM
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Hello all,
Chair, I think your right! I believe the original Cherry bombs used "Water Glass" mixed with a sawdust or simular filler!
P.S.1, yes what is that web sight again!
P.S.2, has anyone made a good homemade fuse that will go into a homemade Cherry bomb or firecraker? Mine keep stopping at the hole!
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chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 02:41 PM
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(In response to J's post):
I would prefer the endplug shatter, smaller shrapnel pieces.
Of all of the commercial firecrackers I have used and disassembled, they all use a red colored clay as end plugs. The larger ones available(Not more powerful, they still contain <50mg flash, but they are in a larger case) use clay that looks as it had been moistened, then compressed and dried. But I have never seen a commercial(or bootleg) firecracker using plaster.. Maybe it's because we live in different places... I live on the east coast U.S.A.
My favorite kind of endplug is made out of kraft paper. I take a wad of kraft, cover it in elmers glue, and ram it down into the case I'm using.. I then let it sit for about 30 seconds to a minute, and push it out. I repeat, but this time I don't push it out. I drill the hole(either in the case, or the endplug, it depends on the length of the case, for longer crackers I drill the endplug) for the fuse, then I put the powder into the case, and glue the other plug in... I always finish it off with about 4 layers of packaging tape(it has strings through it, to give it strength) to make sure the endplugs don't blow out.
-chair
[This message has been edited by chair (edited May 03, 2001).]
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 02:56 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Alchemist:
Hello all,
Chair, I think your right! I believe the original Cherry bombs used "Water Glass" mixed with a sawdust or simular filler!
P.S.1, yes what is that web sight again!
P.S.2, has anyone made a good homemade fuse that will go into a homemade Cherry bomb or firecraker? Mine keep stopping at the hole!
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A book I have describes the process that original cherry bombs were made. It is extremely dangerous though, because drilling of the fuse hold is done after the case is filled and sealed. The process basicly is, take a spherical cup set, and fill the smaller half with flash, place the larger half over the smaller half, and glue it together. You then dip the cherry in some elmers glue, and roll it in fine sawdust. Then you dip the now dry cherry in sodium silicate solution and roll it in even finer saw dust, the next step is to dip the cherry in sodium silicate solution again and roll it in sawdust that is dyed red. Then you drill the fuse hold and insert fuse, you then glue the fuse in.
I do not recomend this method as you have to drill into flash, and that is extremely dangerous. A much safer approach would be to drill the cup set first, and insert and glue the fuse. Then glue the cups together and do the dipping and the rolling, etc..
I have never used this method, but it supposedly gives very good reports.
-chair
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
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posted 05-03-2001 04:27 PM
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Here is the fuse that I make, it is very reliable, and burns well. It'd be a bitch to make unless you are in the UK though, in which case it'd be very easy. Here it is
[This message has been edited by zaibatsu (edited May 03, 2001).]
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 05:52 PM
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Alchemist, blackmatch is fine so long as you don't bend it too much. I have methods on my website for making several variations. Zaibatsu's fuse will probably be easier if you can find some NaClO3.
Chair, I live in the UK. Firecrackers have been banned for several years now, but when they were on sale the good one's were plugged with some white plaster. I've seen the red clay used in french crackers, but again they sometimes use white plaster.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Anthony
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Posts: 2306
From: England
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posted 05-03-2001 06:26 PM
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50mg?! That's a fucking insanely small amount of flash!
Do plaster of paris plugs grip paper tubes well? I used to use quickly setting cement but the plugs didn't grip the insides of the tube very well and just blew out. I switched to pressed/rammed clay because they *never* just blow out, but plaster of paris would be easier.
A number of fireworks I've seen (like air-bombs) are plugged with lightly pressed clay granules, rather than a clay pressed into a solid, hard plug. I think this is because if the plug blows, it will turn back into it's component granules, thus creating no dnagerous schrapnel.
zaibatsu
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Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 06:34 PM
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Yeah, I find they do, but if you have a slow burning comp. such as KClO3/Sugar, I'd put a screw through the tube first, to give it something to form around. If safety is your thing, use thin balsa instead of a screw.
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 10:24 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by J:
Chair, I live in the UK. Firecrackers have been banned for several years now, but when they were on sale the good one's were plugged with some white plaster. I've seen the red clay used in french crackers, but again they sometimes use white plaster.
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Unfortunatly, I haven't been alive long enough to actually buy a legal firecracker that holds more than 50mg flash. They were banned over here in the U.S. in '66. So I've never seen a military issue M-80, or even a bootleg. So I have no idea what "the good ones" are plugged with over here. I assume it's either a wooden, or "hardened paper"(paper soaked in glue and rammed down the tube) plug.
Anthony:
Of course it's an insanely small amount of flash, but I guess the government thinks that it's the largest amount that can be "safely" used. It really sucks.. They give Ok reports, but they destroy nothing, a soda can simply bulges out and smokes when one is let off inside.. Although, when I fuse about 5 of them together, it's a pretty cool effect
By the way, does any body know the most optimal amount of flash to use in M-80 style crackers? The U.S. government completely filled the case with flash, without any airspace. But this isn't a very efficient use of flash. I heard the best amount to use is 1/3 the volume of the case.
-chair
J
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Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-04-2001 02:28 PM
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It depends on the comp. With fast burning flash, 1/3 to 1/2 should be fine. It depends whether you want the loudest bang using the smallest amount of powder, or the most powerful explosion possible for a given case size. If it's the latter, I'd suggest filling it to the top.
For slower burning comps, filling them to the top works best in my experience. Don't press it at all, just fill it up.
The best exploding firework available to buy in the UK is the Air Bomb. It's an arial salute, and it is very loud and quite powerful for it's size. There can't be more than a gram of flash, probably around half that. Yet they are as loud as some of the large French crackers, and quite destructive if the salute is 'accidentally' fired into the ground rather than the air ;-)
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
chair
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From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-04-2001 02:42 PM
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We have similar "fireworks" over in the U.S. They are called "BirdBombs" and are used for scaring away birds. They are basicly 0.5 grams of flash attached to a rocket. You fire it with a launcher that is about 2x the thickness of a pencil, and the same length. You insert a shotgun shell primer into the launcher, screw the launcher together, put the device into the launcher, and activate the trigger mechanism.. The device flies about 50 yards then goes off with a very loud bang. I've shot them into the ground before, and they leave a nice bare spot on the dirt with about 5" radius.
I was thinking of disassembling these jewels for their flash content, but decided against it because I didn't want it to blow up in my face.
Thanks for the information about the flash, BTW. Let's say I have a case that is 1/2" x 1.5", how much flash should I use in that? How many grams is it?
Thanks,
-chair
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-04-2001 06:08 PM
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Hello gang,
Chair, Thanks for the feed back! I also live in the U.S.. Do those bird bombs require a permit and where can ya get them. Also have you found a good source for Chlorates here?
That book sounds pretting good! What else does it cover! Bye any chance do ya have it scanned or posted anywhere?
Thanks......................................
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CragHack
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From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-04-2001 07:56 PM
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you have to look for chlorates. it took me a while to find a chlorate and it isn't even very good (NaCLO3) i mean it will suffice but it kinda pisses me off that i can't find the potasium derivitive. Anyway, i found mine at a local garden supply store. i would suggest staying away from the home depots, and the Lowes. Try and look for the mom and pop shops. they should have it.
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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."
zaibatsu
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Posts: 407
From: England
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posted 05-05-2001 05:02 AM
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Crag, go to www.connect.to/juice and use that method to convert NaClO3 to KClO3
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 07:44 AM
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Chair, off the top of my head, perhaps 3 to 5g if that's the inside dimensions that will be filled. Don't bother carefully weighing out the flash, just fill up the case.
Those bird bombs sound too useful to canibalise for the flash.
Potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate is more difficult to find than strong acids and (IMO) much more dangerous chemicals. Certain chemicals are generally hard to find more because they have no 'home' uses rather than being restricted.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-05-2001 08:45 AM
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Alchemist: I purchased them at a gun show. But they can be ordered via mail as well. You don't need any permits, they are "For agricultural use only". In certain catalogs(Firequest comes to mind: http://www.firequest.com/ ) They sell these things.. but they are for use on the ground! They're basically birdbombs with a fuse!
http://www.firequest.com/catalog/smoke_generators_bombs.html
What book were you talking about, Alchemist?
J: 3 to 5 grams?!? That is a lot of flash! What would be an appropriate amount for using in a residential area? I'm thinking around 0.5 grams.
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 12:53 PM
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That depends on your neighbours ;-) Seriously, letting them off in a residential area will probably attract unwanted attention, unless it's a celebration of some kind (4th July for the US). No matter how little flash you use, the explosion will be very audible. You'd be better off going out into the countryside.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-05-2001 01:33 PM
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Hi Chair, the one on Cherry Bombs! What books do ya have? Any of them posted anywhere? Thanks!
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richl261
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Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-06-2001 08:02 AM
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zaibatsu, that recipe for the s/c fuse is a bit drawn out...all i do is boil string in s/c solution for 5 mins and hey presto!
still, the same effect though
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-06-2001 11:09 AM
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Its long yeah, but its in a lot of detail. All it really is Kitchen roll soaked in NaClO3/NaCl solution, dried, cut and rolled up!
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-06-2001 11:37 AM
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J:I'm going to be letting the firecrackers off for 4th of July..
Alchemist: The book is really big. I'll scan the index(some time tomorrow) and you can decide which sections you want(I'll eventually scan the entire book, but I don't have enough time right now).
Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-06-2001 11:49 AM
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Thanks Chair,
I know what ya mean when it comes to no time!
E-mail me at Alchemist_0@hotmail.com
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boomfreak
New Member
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock Ar Us
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-08-2001 11:53 PM
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Thanks for the tips guys. I just had an evil thought, you could remove most of the cotton from inside of a zippo lighter, add a 3/16" fuse up through the wick then fill with a healthy amount of flash. If thats already been mentioned I apologize (I looked)
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-09-2001 06:45 AM
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Sorry to pick on you again, but there has been at least one big thread on this. However, it might have been before the big forum crash. It is a fairly stupid and dangerous thing to do, just stick to crackers.
J
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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-09-2001 03:32 PM
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I almost lost a finger to something like that
chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-15-2001 06:29 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
Thanks Chair,
I know what ya mean when it comes to no time!
E-mail me at Alchemist_0@hotmail.com
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I said I'd have the index for you a few days ago, but exams are starting this week, and I have absolutely no time to do anything besides study. I'll get it to you as soon as I can. Which probably won't be until monday afternoon, which is the end of the county required exams..
Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-15-2001 10:02 AM
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Thanks Chair,
No problem!
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mark
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From:
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posted 05-29-2001 03:00 PM
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Sorry to revive an old thread, but if you have flash, you can make blockbusters by filling a film canister with flash.
And, concerning end plugs, Most illegal, out of the van firecrackers have wax or epoxy endplugs. When I lit a comercial blockbuster, the wax endplug was welded onto the concrete after the blast.
also, how loud are those birdbombs? What explosive would they be equivilint to? m80? Blockbuster?