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megalomania
June 9th, 2003, 06:10 PM
boomfreak
New Member
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock Ar Us
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 08:08 AM
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Just lately I started playing with flash powder and it seemed to me like you just couldn't have too many topics on something that awesome. What prompted me to write is there seems to be a real lack of good technical info on the stuff. I have a book that claims that if you double the amount of powder, the force of the explosion goes up 8 times. I've become fairly adept at improvising parts(I live in the bible belt)and I'd like to hear any Ideas on cases or the power you may have. So far i'm using ping pong balls and 5" sticks of a roll of kraft paper with wooden dowell end plugs. Thanks


J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 10:06 AM
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How do you measure power in this context? And I'd be very suspicious of any book that made that claim. There are already past posts on making firecrackers (including different end plugs etc), I think the subject has been done to death. If you have any new information to add, do so. If not, think carefully before starting a new topic in the future.
J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 05:09 PM
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I actually have heard claims in article from other newsgroups, of things like 4 times the flash powder is 32 times the power, and it goes up exponentially


MacCleod
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:36 AM
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Hey,boomfreak,hears a good way to boost the power of your pingpong ball casings.get a stick of epoxy putty,cut it into 4 or 5 even sections.Mix a piece up,then mold it evenly over the ball,allow to dry.Then drill a 1/8th. in. hole into it,fill with your flash,epoxy your fuse in.Way more bang for your buck!.Just make sure to throw them far enough away to avoid being hit with the shrapnel.
Don't know about vol. increase/power increase,but i've read that filling the case more than 1/3rd. to half full doesn't necissarily give a louder report.


-A-
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Posts: 100
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 02:17 AM
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Haha MacCleod, I thought that using epoxy to cover ping pong balls was an original idea of mine and then I read this. Everything one discovers or creates has been done before haha.


Teck
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Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 03:13 AM
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For end plugs I used wooden dowls also, but after I put them in I took mechanical wire and wrapped it ouround the ends and tightened it with pliers so the end caps wouldn't pop out.
Now I use (plaster of paris)
really good stuff for end caps.


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"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s



PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 04:17 AM
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Instead of a pingpong balls, you can use plastic christmass ball used to decorate christmass trees...cheap, different sizes and stronger because thicker!!!
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



blackadder
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Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:36 PM
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good for a christmas shrapnel surprise present!


spud555555
New Member
Posts: 8
From: billerica
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-25-2001 05:36 PM
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Instead of doing all of those things wiht ping pong balls, buy the mini easter eggs and instead of using epoxy, there is this stuff called "quikrete" which is little cans of fast drying cement(15 minutes) and is extremely strong and works much greater than epoxy for containing explosives.


endotherm
Frequent Poster
Posts: 164
From: dunno
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-25-2001 07:42 PM
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Boomfreak, you wanna see what i call an m-80, check the Miscalleaneous: Forum Media section and check out the pic i posted, i real man's m-80 is made of 1/4 inch thick pressure hardened aluminum
[This message has been edited by endotherm (edited April 25, 2001).]



EP
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Posts: 108
From: USA
Registered: APR 2001
posted 04-27-2001 12:54 AM
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Another way to make good endplugs is mixing sawdust with wood glue. Make it pretty thick with sawdust or the glue will take forever to dry.


SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 03:10 AM
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I always use epoxy, in two part syringes. It costs about $2 australian dollars to make the casings for 5 small crackers. if you buy th more expensive stuff, it comes to about $10. Where do you get a stick of epoxy?


Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-02-2001 04:13 AM
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You can get the stuff for repairing gas tank holes its like putty, a round thing with the hardner inside with the epoxy around it, you just mix it with your fingers and it hardens in like 15 minutes


chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-02-2001 02:06 PM
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For instructions on how to make good salutes, I recomend the books, Simple Salutes, and The Firecracker Cookbook. They are both very good books. One (Simple Salutes) suggests using coat hanger tubes for the cases. I have used them before with rocket engine powder(the book suggests flash, but I don't have any), and they made a nice bang. The Firecracker Cookbook suggests either buying cases, scrounging for them, or making them yourself. Out of all these, I prefer making them myself, they are much louder, even when using just shotgun powder, or rocket engine powder. You can dry roll cases, but I don't recomend it since it gives very bad reports(the cases aren't very strong because they're just paper), but if you wet roll the cases, by wrapping a strip of kraft paper around a dowel 1.5 times(without wetting), then covering the rest of the strip with glue and rolling it, they make awesome firecrackers.
I haven't used dowels very much to make endplugs, I prefer to use a piece of a coathanger tube. You cut a piece off about 1/4" to 1/2" and form it into a "rolled U" shape, you then shove it into the case(this only works if the case is 1/2") and epoxy it. Fill the case up 1/3 of the way with powder(do this by making a little scoop 1/3 the size of the case) then you make another endplug, but this time put the fuse through the "rolled U" and epoxy that in.

I have a lot of different flash formulas that I got from the books I have, if any of you want them, I'll post them.

-chair



richl261
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Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-02-2001 02:21 PM
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cook...book?
who'd need a "cookbook" for m-80s?



BoB-
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From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 03:08 PM
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Wooden dowel works great, but man does it hurt when one hits you, something to remember.
You can order paper plugs and endcaps from pyrotechnic suppliers.



chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-02-2001 03:37 PM
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It's not like the Anarchist Cookbook, it's a very good book that gives safety tips, and ways to make different firecrackers.


MacCleod
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Posts: 217
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-02-2001 11:51 PM
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I stamp end plugs out of cardboard with a set of gasket punches.They range from 1/8th. to 1-1/4 inch in size.
Chair-have you seen ALENGOSVIG1's site?.He's got two major flash files,"165 flash comp.'s",and "Pyrotechnic Formulary Page".The PFP also has info on just about every other pyrotechnic device.


Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 12:25 AM
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Hello all,
Try dipping your M-80's in PLASTER of PARIS and letting them dry! You can mix the plaster thin or thick as desired! Also you can redip as many times as ya like. It makes a good hard coating, it's cheap, and easy. Makes a real loud M-80, etc.. Have fun......

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[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited May 03, 2001).]



SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 01:12 AM
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why roll your own cases, the rolls from inside aluminium foil rolls are 'bout 1/8 inch thick, and plug really easy using quick dry epoxy. It is also easy to roll paper around a dowel, slide the dowel out and glue, then plug with some of the same dowel. These can be easily drille through to accept a fuse.


chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 06:26 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by MacCleod:
Chair-have you seen ALENGOSVIG1's site?.He's got two major flash files,"165 flash comp.'s",and "Pyrotechnic Formulary Page".The PFP also has info on just about every other pyrotechnic device.
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I am trying but, it seems to be down at the moment.

Alchemist: You can also use Silica(AKA Water Glass) to coat the M-80's, I'm not sure of the performance difference, but I've heard that plaster can break into shrapnel. That's certainly not something I want with a firecracker that I may be using in a residential setting(4th of July is soon, 2 months!).

[edited: I visited the wrong website]

[This message has been edited by chair (edited May 03, 2001).]



J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 08:30 AM
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Most (if not all) of the commercial firecrackers I've seen use either plaster or some kind of clay as end plugs. I can attest that plaster of paris makes very good plugs ;-) So long as you make them thick enough, they shouldn't shatter.
I have a copy of the original pfp database on my site. It's been renamed and is being updated by someone other than the author, I can't remember the site off-hand.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



Alchemist
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Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-03-2001 02:37 PM
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Hello all,
Chair, I think your right! I believe the original Cherry bombs used "Water Glass" mixed with a sawdust or simular filler!

P.S.1, yes what is that web sight again!
P.S.2, has anyone made a good homemade fuse that will go into a homemade Cherry bomb or firecraker? Mine keep stopping at the hole!

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chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 02:41 PM
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(In response to J's post):
I would prefer the endplug shatter, smaller shrapnel pieces.

Of all of the commercial firecrackers I have used and disassembled, they all use a red colored clay as end plugs. The larger ones available(Not more powerful, they still contain <50mg flash, but they are in a larger case) use clay that looks as it had been moistened, then compressed and dried. But I have never seen a commercial(or bootleg) firecracker using plaster.. Maybe it's because we live in different places... I live on the east coast U.S.A.

My favorite kind of endplug is made out of kraft paper. I take a wad of kraft, cover it in elmers glue, and ram it down into the case I'm using.. I then let it sit for about 30 seconds to a minute, and push it out. I repeat, but this time I don't push it out. I drill the hole(either in the case, or the endplug, it depends on the length of the case, for longer crackers I drill the endplug) for the fuse, then I put the powder into the case, and glue the other plug in... I always finish it off with about 4 layers of packaging tape(it has strings through it, to give it strength) to make sure the endplugs don't blow out.

-chair

[This message has been edited by chair (edited May 03, 2001).]



chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 02:56 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
Hello all,
Chair, I think your right! I believe the original Cherry bombs used "Water Glass" mixed with a sawdust or simular filler!

P.S.1, yes what is that web sight again!
P.S.2, has anyone made a good homemade fuse that will go into a homemade Cherry bomb or firecraker? Mine keep stopping at the hole!



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A book I have describes the process that original cherry bombs were made. It is extremely dangerous though, because drilling of the fuse hold is done after the case is filled and sealed. The process basicly is, take a spherical cup set, and fill the smaller half with flash, place the larger half over the smaller half, and glue it together. You then dip the cherry in some elmers glue, and roll it in fine sawdust. Then you dip the now dry cherry in sodium silicate solution and roll it in even finer saw dust, the next step is to dip the cherry in sodium silicate solution again and roll it in sawdust that is dyed red. Then you drill the fuse hold and insert fuse, you then glue the fuse in.

I do not recomend this method as you have to drill into flash, and that is extremely dangerous. A much safer approach would be to drill the cup set first, and insert and glue the fuse. Then glue the cups together and do the dipping and the rolling, etc..

I have never used this method, but it supposedly gives very good reports.

-chair



zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 04:27 PM
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Here is the fuse that I make, it is very reliable, and burns well. It'd be a bitch to make unless you are in the UK though, in which case it'd be very easy. Here it is
[This message has been edited by zaibatsu (edited May 03, 2001).]



J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 05:52 PM
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Alchemist, blackmatch is fine so long as you don't bend it too much. I have methods on my website for making several variations. Zaibatsu's fuse will probably be easier if you can find some NaClO3.
Chair, I live in the UK. Firecrackers have been banned for several years now, but when they were on sale the good one's were plugged with some white plaster. I've seen the red clay used in french crackers, but again they sometimes use white plaster.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 06:26 PM
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50mg?! That's a fucking insanely small amount of flash!
Do plaster of paris plugs grip paper tubes well? I used to use quickly setting cement but the plugs didn't grip the insides of the tube very well and just blew out. I switched to pressed/rammed clay because they *never* just blow out, but plaster of paris would be easier.

A number of fireworks I've seen (like air-bombs) are plugged with lightly pressed clay granules, rather than a clay pressed into a solid, hard plug. I think this is because if the plug blows, it will turn back into it's component granules, thus creating no dnagerous schrapnel.



zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-03-2001 06:34 PM
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Yeah, I find they do, but if you have a slow burning comp. such as KClO3/Sugar, I'd put a screw through the tube first, to give it something to form around. If safety is your thing, use thin balsa instead of a screw.


chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-03-2001 10:24 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by J:

Chair, I live in the UK. Firecrackers have been banned for several years now, but when they were on sale the good one's were plugged with some white plaster. I've seen the red clay used in french crackers, but again they sometimes use white plaster.


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Unfortunatly, I haven't been alive long enough to actually buy a legal firecracker that holds more than 50mg flash. They were banned over here in the U.S. in '66. So I've never seen a military issue M-80, or even a bootleg. So I have no idea what "the good ones" are plugged with over here. I assume it's either a wooden, or "hardened paper"(paper soaked in glue and rammed down the tube) plug.


Anthony:

Of course it's an insanely small amount of flash, but I guess the government thinks that it's the largest amount that can be "safely" used. It really sucks.. They give Ok reports, but they destroy nothing, a soda can simply bulges out and smokes when one is let off inside.. Although, when I fuse about 5 of them together, it's a pretty cool effect

By the way, does any body know the most optimal amount of flash to use in M-80 style crackers? The U.S. government completely filled the case with flash, without any airspace. But this isn't a very efficient use of flash. I heard the best amount to use is 1/3 the volume of the case.

-chair



J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-04-2001 02:28 PM
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It depends on the comp. With fast burning flash, 1/3 to 1/2 should be fine. It depends whether you want the loudest bang using the smallest amount of powder, or the most powerful explosion possible for a given case size. If it's the latter, I'd suggest filling it to the top.
For slower burning comps, filling them to the top works best in my experience. Don't press it at all, just fill it up.

The best exploding firework available to buy in the UK is the Air Bomb. It's an arial salute, and it is very loud and quite powerful for it's size. There can't be more than a gram of flash, probably around half that. Yet they are as loud as some of the large French crackers, and quite destructive if the salute is 'accidentally' fired into the ground rather than the air ;-)

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-04-2001 02:42 PM
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We have similar "fireworks" over in the U.S. They are called "BirdBombs" and are used for scaring away birds. They are basicly 0.5 grams of flash attached to a rocket. You fire it with a launcher that is about 2x the thickness of a pencil, and the same length. You insert a shotgun shell primer into the launcher, screw the launcher together, put the device into the launcher, and activate the trigger mechanism.. The device flies about 50 yards then goes off with a very loud bang. I've shot them into the ground before, and they leave a nice bare spot on the dirt with about 5" radius.
I was thinking of disassembling these jewels for their flash content, but decided against it because I didn't want it to blow up in my face.

Thanks for the information about the flash, BTW. Let's say I have a case that is 1/2" x 1.5", how much flash should I use in that? How many grams is it?

Thanks,
-chair



Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-04-2001 06:08 PM
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Hello gang,
Chair, Thanks for the feed back! I also live in the U.S.. Do those bird bombs require a permit and where can ya get them. Also have you found a good source for Chlorates here?

That book sounds pretting good! What else does it cover! Bye any chance do ya have it scanned or posted anywhere?

Thanks......................................

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CragHack
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Posts: 618
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 05-04-2001 07:56 PM
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you have to look for chlorates. it took me a while to find a chlorate and it isn't even very good (NaCLO3) i mean it will suffice but it kinda pisses me off that i can't find the potasium derivitive. Anyway, i found mine at a local garden supply store. i would suggest staying away from the home depots, and the Lowes. Try and look for the mom and pop shops. they should have it.
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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."



zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 05:02 AM
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Crag, go to www.connect.to/juice and use that method to convert NaClO3 to KClO3


J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 07:44 AM
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Chair, off the top of my head, perhaps 3 to 5g if that's the inside dimensions that will be filled. Don't bother carefully weighing out the flash, just fill up the case.
Those bird bombs sound too useful to canibalise for the flash.

Potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate is more difficult to find than strong acids and (IMO) much more dangerous chemicals. Certain chemicals are generally hard to find more because they have no 'home' uses rather than being restricted.

J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-05-2001 08:45 AM
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Alchemist: I purchased them at a gun show. But they can be ordered via mail as well. You don't need any permits, they are "For agricultural use only". In certain catalogs(Firequest comes to mind: http://www.firequest.com/ ) They sell these things.. but they are for use on the ground! They're basically birdbombs with a fuse!
http://www.firequest.com/catalog/smoke_generators_bombs.html
What book were you talking about, Alchemist?

J: 3 to 5 grams?!? That is a lot of flash! What would be an appropriate amount for using in a residential area? I'm thinking around 0.5 grams.




J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-05-2001 12:53 PM
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That depends on your neighbours ;-) Seriously, letting them off in a residential area will probably attract unwanted attention, unless it's a celebration of some kind (4th July for the US). No matter how little flash you use, the explosion will be very audible. You'd be better off going out into the countryside.
J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-05-2001 01:33 PM
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Hi Chair, the one on Cherry Bombs! What books do ya have? Any of them posted anywhere? Thanks!
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richl261
Frequent Poster
Posts: 134
From: uk
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-06-2001 08:02 AM
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zaibatsu, that recipe for the s/c fuse is a bit drawn out...all i do is boil string in s/c solution for 5 mins and hey presto!
still, the same effect though




zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-06-2001 11:09 AM
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Its long yeah, but its in a lot of detail. All it really is Kitchen roll soaked in NaClO3/NaCl solution, dried, cut and rolled up!


chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-06-2001 11:37 AM
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J:I'm going to be letting the firecrackers off for 4th of July..

Alchemist: The book is really big. I'll scan the index(some time tomorrow) and you can decide which sections you want(I'll eventually scan the entire book, but I don't have enough time right now).



Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-06-2001 11:49 AM
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Thanks Chair,
I know what ya mean when it comes to no time!
E-mail me at Alchemist_0@hotmail.com

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boomfreak
New Member
Posts: 4
From: Little Rock Ar Us
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-08-2001 11:53 PM
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Thanks for the tips guys. I just had an evil thought, you could remove most of the cotton from inside of a zippo lighter, add a 3/16" fuse up through the wick then fill with a healthy amount of flash. If thats already been mentioned I apologize (I looked)


J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-09-2001 06:45 AM
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Sorry to pick on you again, but there has been at least one big thread on this. However, it might have been before the big forum crash. It is a fairly stupid and dangerous thing to do, just stick to crackers.
J

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"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman



PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-09-2001 03:32 PM
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I almost lost a finger to something like that


chair
New Member
Posts: 22
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-15-2001 06:29 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Alchemist:
Thanks Chair,
I know what ya mean when it comes to no time!
E-mail me at Alchemist_0@hotmail.com



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I said I'd have the index for you a few days ago, but exams are starting this week, and I have absolutely no time to do anything besides study. I'll get it to you as soon as I can. Which probably won't be until monday afternoon, which is the end of the county required exams..



Alchemist
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From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
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posted 05-15-2001 10:02 AM
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Thanks Chair,
No problem!

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mark
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From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-29-2001 03:00 PM
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Sorry to revive an old thread, but if you have flash, you can make blockbusters by filling a film canister with flash.
And, concerning end plugs, Most illegal, out of the van firecrackers have wax or epoxy endplugs. When I lit a comercial blockbuster, the wax endplug was welded onto the concrete after the blast.

also, how loud are those birdbombs? What explosive would they be equivilint to? m80? Blockbuster?

Arkangel
June 13th, 2003, 06:26 PM
Have been making quite a lot of stuff recently. Fuckloads in fact, I and some friends had great fun with it last weekend. Anyway, I'd been making some copy thunderflashes for my flash. They resemble a stick grenade, with a 1"o/d tube fitting inside a 1"i/d tube. I like this design as it adds some reassuring distance between the active part of the device and my fingers:)

To make the main body, I get a length of 1" tube, and a piece of 1" dowel that is 1" shorter than it. The dowel is screwed to a piece of board, standing vertically. I slide the tube onto this "mandrel", then drop a bit of scrunched-up newspaper down it and ram it in with another bit of dowel and a mallet. The whole thing is removed and process repeated (I'm into VOLUME these days). The next step is to put a layer of hotglue onto the thin newspaper "plug" which was formed, making sure it is sealed to the edges. By the time I've done the last tube, the first has cooled and I'm ready for the next process.

Next, I sprinkle some kitty litter in, which then has hot-glue liberally applied. It's good to make a couple of layers like this, rather than a 1" plug of kitty litter with hotglue at either end. It's also a good idea not to cover the entire kitty litter in hot glue in one go, as the heat causes air expansion in the litter, which causes bubbles and voids in the plug. Leave one edge open, then come back to it when the main plug has cooled. When the end plug is nice and cool, I pop in my comp.

To plug the smaller tube, I put a garden cane in from the bottom to within an inch of the other end. I then scrunched a small bit of newspaper down onto it, before putting a half inch of hotglue down onto the newspaper to seal it in. That "handle" was then hotglued into the main body (with fuse) - already filled with comp. I haven't had any accidents with my flash (70/30 perchlorate) and hotglue, however, it makes me VERY nervous and I need an alternative glue.

arm
June 13th, 2003, 07:36 PM
For endplugs i use two part thick polyester resin. You can add a little more hardener to make it set faster. You can also add quite a bit of fine sand to bulk out the mix too so you dont use as much of the stuff.

It sets like concrete (the stuff i've got is for stone repair) and adheres very well to paper. Shouldn't be too difficult to find on the web, fibreglass companys would sell it.

And where in the hell do you get perchlorate in the uk, this stuffs like gold dust.:)

Arkangel
June 13th, 2003, 09:46 PM
The main reason I don't like epoxy based fillers or plaster of paris for end plugs is that you end up with quite a solid projectile as a result. I've also used ball milled kitty litter, which gives a kind of grog. I'll probably try ramming some of that, then sealing the outside with hotglue. Ramming plain kitty litter seems to split tubes very easily - I think that as the granules are pushed together, they exert a great deal of force on the tubes. Having some fine powder mixed in helps compact the mixture.

arm
June 14th, 2003, 05:19 AM
Will lots of sand in the polyester it tends to become brittle and liable to break up. It does however loose its stick if too much sand is added.

Trinitrotoluene
June 18th, 2003, 04:20 AM
For M-80 endplugs, you should use some thick cardboard, you need good confinment on the inside. I also use a layer of wood glue covering the whole endplug to give it better strength. The M-80's are filled with 8grams of flash, 2/3rd the way, they show pretty good performence.

yt2095
July 25th, 2003, 01:29 PM
For wants of a better thread to put this bit of fun in, I`ll use here.

I`ve often used M-80 style flash-bangs as amusement when I wish to destroy particularly beligerant peices of computer h/ware (esp Hard drives).

until I Discovered that SOME HDD`s can be opened directly into the cavity containing the platters :D

it usualy has a peice of plastic tape over it covering a small plate that has an outline of a large TicTak candy.
this can be peeled off and 70/30 flash introduced directly! into the plater cavity :)
making for a MUCH MORE destructive display than merely placing a well charged M-80 undrneath it.
I`ve never tried it with AP, MEKP,HMTP though? perhaps it would be a waste?
but Flash powder is certainly worthy! even as an L.E. and only capable of mechanical explosion via confinement.
be at LEAST 50Mtrs away for a 5.15 drive. we`ve had parts fly over us and land on the railway track a good 100 meters BEHIND US even at this distance!
the HDD cast Alu is brittle!

NickSG
July 25th, 2003, 11:22 PM
Im pretty sure they mean something like Plaster of Paris when they say cement end plugs.

The "civilian" M-80s around here use wax end plugs by the way.

yt2095
July 26th, 2003, 06:08 AM
Hmmm.. sulpher in a Chlorate mix? sounds a bit dodgey to me!

Anthony
July 26th, 2003, 12:48 PM
Sulpher with perchlorate is ok.

Maybe they were completely filled with comp to give a good flash of light, possibly to the detriment of the report. Guess it depends whether they wanted noise and light rather than just noise.

yt2095
July 26th, 2003, 01:04 PM
Anthony, true, but I still wouldn`t trust it.

the "cement" you talk about I assume is that similar to the the casing in large "air bombs"

a thick walled tube about 2.5 Cms across and about 4Cms long,. colored delay charge (usualy red or green, flat surface on the outside of the device and concave in the middle of the container/tube) with a plaster and bentonite seal at the other end :)

NickSG
July 26th, 2003, 05:30 PM
Filling a salute all the way up (but with room for the plugs) works fine for me, and is actually even louder than filled 1/2 way. I dont see why so many people think different. As long as you have a thick enough tube it doesnt matter if it is 1/2 way or all the way full.

yt2095
July 26th, 2003, 06:02 PM
because even the best flash can be "dead pressed" that`s the only reason why :)
also, you may find (as I have) that adding more does`nt make it louder, there seems to be a sort of limit (I`m sure there`s a technical reason for this) but more powder can often be just a waste.

NickSG
July 26th, 2003, 08:09 PM
There is a limit on how loud the salute is, and it is about 1/2 full, but filling it all the way up gives your salute more power and a brighter flash.

Bert
September 15th, 2003, 08:30 PM
The business of thinking a salute wouldn't work well if
completely filled is mostly a relic of the "cannon cracker" days,
before metal fueled flash became the mix of choice.

The old fashioned cannon crackers used Chlorate mixes
with Sulfur and/or Antimony Sulfide, along with charcoal or
other auxiliary fuels and sometimes Potassium Nitrate
as well. Yes, they were dangerous to make... See one
of the older books such as Weingart's Pyrotechnics
for construction details and mixes used

These mixes would CAKE in storage. If the tubes were
only half full, the mixes would be shaken around during
handling & shipping, and remain sufficiently loose to
take fire quickly and explode well.

Modern flash is often made with an anti-caking agent
added. Ball milling the oxidizer with a small amount
(1 - 2%)of cab-o-sil (fumed silica) works well... There
is no reason except economy not to completely fill a
casing when such a mix is used. And it WILL be louder
if completely filled.

I am acquainted with a group that makes rather large
aerial salutes for professional use. They literally POUND
the casings full of flash. I don't recommend going to this
extreme, but they've never had a failure from "dead pressing".

Crazy Swede
September 16th, 2003, 03:39 PM
Bert, do you have any experience in comparing different flash powders while keeping the volume and confinement unchanged?

The reason I ask is that in my personal experiments, I have always kept the weight constant. This of course had the effect that the casings were filled to different levels because of the different bulk densities of the mixtures. I feel that I might have underestimated the usefulness of the denser flash powders, made with barium nitrate and/or antimony trisulphide, since I could have got lots of more mass into the salutes with those!

Jetex Kid
March 1st, 2004, 10:39 PM
I am acquainted with a group that makes rather large
aerial salutes for professional use. They literally POUND
the casings full of flash. I don't recommend going to this
extreme, but they've never had a failure from "dead pressing".

Bert, I am pleased to learn that one can "literally POUND the casings full of flash," in "rather large" aerial salutes. However, I am curious about how large "rather large" is, since the pounding phenomenon will not work below a certain size. Could you please give us some indication of what "rather large" is, in terms of diameter or charge weight? Did the charge contain sulfur? (Would it be possible without sulfur?) Was the shell of normal construction and not spiked with Kevlar, or otherwise special? :confused:

And thank you.

EP
March 2nd, 2004, 01:38 AM
I've done some experiments with smaller flash salutes and varrying ammounts of powder in them (using standard 7/3). Using the medium size UN tubes I tried several different ammounts:

http://www.unitednuclear.com/m160tubes2.jpg

I used 4g, 6g and 8g, I probably could have fit 10g and it would be a little tight but I didn't try that. 4g wasn't too exciting but there was hardly a noticeable difference between 6g and 8g so I don't really think packing it in would make much difference. Light output might be improved however with more powder, so some people would like that although it increases the cost.

Bert
March 2nd, 2004, 02:25 AM
I am curious about how large "rather large" is, since the pounding phenomenon will not work below a certain size. Could you please give us some indication of what "rather large" is, in terms of diameter or charge weight? Did the charge contain sulfur? (Would it be possible without sulfur?) Was the shell of normal construction and not spiked with Kevlar, or otherwise special?

Rather large is 8" nominal shell size, usualy about 12" long. Holds about 10 lb. of flash. They made some bigger ones too, up to 40 lb. of flash.

Mix was perchlorate, Aluminum and Sulfur. About 8:3:1 ratios. You can make 70:30 flash without Sulfur or Antimony sulphide, but "Dr. X" uses Sulfur.

Shells were in heavy wall spiral wound paper cans, spiked longitudinaly only with pasted natural fiber string. No fiberglass, no Kevlar. 3/4" plywood end discs.

I was in a pole barn while some of these were fired at the proper safety distance for 8" shells (570 feet +). Some of the birds nests were falling out of the roof supports with each shock wave.

tmp
March 12th, 2004, 01:49 AM
If you can't find or don't want to use tubes, then I suggest a poluma-style
continuously wrapped triangle cracker. These work well with visco fuze and
an explosive comp of your choice. Commercially available red tubes are 1/16"
thick for the standard sizes and 3/32" thick for the blockbuster styles.

A sheet of paper is .005" thick. I wrap the triangle to 13 layers. The visco
is glued down the center of 1st equilateral triangle that is formed. The 1st
layer of the triangle "pouch" is glued to keep the powder in place before
wrapping. When done I seal the fuze at the top of the triangle with some
superglue. Also it helps to make the 1st triangle layer about 1/8" smaller
than the final size, then fold it up like a flag.

It's a cheap and easy alternative ! Even 1 gram of flash(20 times the legal
limit) makes a hell of loud boom ! For bigger booms, increase the powder
amount or triangle size !

Just a thought.

cracker
March 17th, 2007, 10:06 PM
Here is a Patent for an M-80 with Excellent! diagram pictures:) http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4052940&id=uRwrAAAAEBAJ&dg=pyrotechnic+salute


If you need a filler you can always use this

SHIMIZU FLASH THUNDER
Potassium Chlorate 43
Antimony Trisulfide 26
Aluminum Dark Pyro or Magnalium 31

"Go Forth and Multiply!" :p

Bert
March 18th, 2007, 01:45 AM
If you need a filler you can always use this

SHIMIZU FLASH THUNDER
Potassium Chlorate 43
Antimony Trisulfide 26
Aluminum Dark Pyro or Magnalium 31


Chlorate and Antimony Trisulfide mixes are quite friction sensitive. In the ratios given, similar to the tip composition of a strike anywhere match or an old fashioned corrosive primer mix. I'd prefer not to handle that mix dry in quantity. If you have the Shimizu book, look at the relative values of friction and impact test data tables for mixes of chlorate and perchlorate with Sulfur and Antimony Trisulfide.

cracker
March 18th, 2007, 02:58 AM
Yup, it's definitely unstable but that's exactly why it's loud, convenient too, light fuse or simply throw at a hard surface.:D

Now, on a more serious note, Bert is right, that someone new to flash should stick to the Perchlorate Comp.

Frunk
March 18th, 2007, 08:15 PM
Where do you suggest we obtain antimony trisulfide?

And what's wrong with chlorate/Al flash? Why do we even need antimony in the first place?

chemdude1999
March 18th, 2007, 08:45 PM
Where do you suggest we obtain antimony trisulfide?

http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp

They still sell it, but only to US customers. Scroll down the page to find it. From the description it simply increase the sensitivity of the mixture. Maybe someone could elaborate.

Bert
March 19th, 2007, 12:37 AM
If you can't find it at a chemical supply house, try asking rock collectors. Stibnite is often pure enough to just grind up and use in pyrotechnic mixes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stibnite

cracker
March 19th, 2007, 01:32 AM
Where do you suggest we obtain antimony trisulfide?

And what's wrong with chlorate/Al flash? Why do we even need antimony in the first place?

Firefox Enterprises
Skylighter Inc
Ebay
Retail Chemical Supply Houses
as Bert stated Minerals

Use it ,compare to the mix "standard" and then you'll know.

Here is another FIRECRACKER Patent with nice pictures >http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5343808

cracker
March 22nd, 2007, 05:17 AM
Obviously the biggest fear anyone has in making Flash Powder is an Accident. Static Electricity, stupidity, or just a simple mistake can be all it takes to Kill...... You and anyone near your work area.

As we all know Flash Powder explodes violently unconfined and so all it would take is a few grams.

What if it would burn explosively when confined but burn slowly unconfined, wouldn't that be much safer?

Of course it would, so here's the Patented formula's and there information>http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6521064&id=gaMNAAAAEBAJ&printsec=description&zoom=4&dq=Flas+Powder+Pyrotechnic+Explosive

Potassium Perchlorate 72.0
Terephthalic Acid 17.3
Magnalium 10.7

Potassium Perchlorate 73.2
Pentaerythritol 17.9
Aluminum Powder 8.9

Mix in 2% Nitrocellulose Lacquer to form a "damp powder" and allow to dry