megalomania
June 14th, 2003, 08:19 PM
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-16-2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Obtain Phosphorus: Ground bone-ash, 12 parts; water, 24 parts; mix to a pap in a large tub, and add in a slender stream (still stirring) sulfuric acid, 8 parts; work well together, adding more water if required; in 24 hours thin with water, agitate well , and, if convenient, heat the mixture in a leaden pan, and as soon as the paste has lost its gramular charracter, transfer it into a series of tall casks; largely dilute with water; and, after settling, decant the clear portion; wash the residue well with water, mix the clear liquids, and evaporate in a copper or lead pan, till the calcarious deposit (gypsum) becomes considerable, then cool, decant the clear, and drain the sediment on a filter; evaporate the clear liquid to the consistence of honey (say to 4 parts), add 1 part of powdered charcoal, and evaporate to dryness in an iron pan or till the bottom of the latter becomes red hot; the dry mixture, when cold, is put into earthen retorts well covered with luting and property dried, and heat is applied sideways rather than at the bottom, by means of an air furnace. The beak of the retort is connected with a copper tube, the other end of which is made to dip about 1/4 inch beneath the surface of lukewarm water placed in a trough or wide-mouthed bottle. The distilled product is purified by squeezing it through chamois leather under warm water, and is then moulded for sale by melting it under water heated to about 145 F, plunging the wider end of a slightly tapering but straight glass tube. into the water, sucking this up to the top of the glass, so as to warm and wet it, next immersing the end into the liquid phosphorus, and sucking it up to any desired height. The bottom of the tube is now closed with the finger, it is withdrawn, and transferred to a pan of cold water to congeal the phosphorus, which will then commonly fall out, or may be easily be expelled by pressure with a piece of wire. Keep it in places where neither light nor heat has access, in phials filled with cold water which has been boiled to expel all air, and enclose the phials in opaque cases.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-17-2001 11:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what are the uses of white/yellow Phosphorus(P)?
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Bandit
Frequent Poster
Posts: 82
From: U.K.
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-17-2001 12:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know about yellow, but white is used in grenades. It lights with contact with air. Tracer round use this as well.
Bandit
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 03-17-2001 01:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just be very careful making/handling this stuff - in addition to its obvious dangers it's highly toxic. Despite strict regulation of white phosphorous production in 1906, munitions workers in both wars suffered the effects of chronic exposure such as phosphonecrosis (phossy jaw), and acute exposure effects that included liver and kidney damage from inhalation and skin absorption. The fatal dose for humans is ridiculously small - on the order of 15 to 100 mg.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/uatw/hlthef/whitepho.html
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-21-2001 01:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Don't have earthen retorts, but say i did want to make this what is luting?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-21-2001 09:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luting is a fireproof material used to seal the gaps between the retort and the condenser. The material used to seal fireplace cracks would work well.
Steel pipes would be suitable replacements for earthen retorts.
WP would be excellent for breaking contact with LEOs. Since the army WP grenade has a radius of more than 20 yards, and WP burns down into the flesh, is highly toxic, and provides excellent screening smoke, a WP grenade would be an ideal urban criminal weapon.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-21-2001 11:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is bone ash just ash from burning bone?
what would the WP be mixed with in a grenade? does it really explode in contact with air?
A WP grenade would really kick ass. from pics i have seen, it would really kill. even ruin night vision from a distance away. really a good screening / getaway weapon.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-21-2001 11:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bone ash is 'calcined bone' and the way i understand it is basically destructive distillation in the open. Roasting it like a mineral kinda. I read WP ingites @ 10-15 degrees above room temp. There still the chance that it would ignite below that though.
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 03-22-2001 12:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A useful reference on White Phosphorous properties: http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/dts/docs/detwp.pdf
According to this, WP ignites spontaneously with air *or* at 30 degrees C.
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-22-2001 06:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a picture showing the results of "phossy jaw".
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited March 22, 2001).]
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-22-2001 10:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ouch.. yuck..i mean fuck..that sucks
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 228
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-23-2001 01:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is probably of no use, but:
Today I found a bottle of 30% Phosphoric Acid... any use??
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-23-2001 06:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, don't quote me on this but you might be able to react it w/ a base and get a phosphate, and then use the phosphate *somewhere* in the process above.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-24-2001 12:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May in an acid Cat. rx
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-24-2001 10:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agent Blak: what does that mean?
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 618
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 03-24-2001 10:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i.e. acid catalyzed reaction. like when you make AP
------------------
...Æ
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 399
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-25-2001 01:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are other self-igniting compounds around. One I have heard mentioned is diethyl-zinc does anyone have info on that ?
Rhadon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 95
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 03-26-2001 08:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found sth. on diethyl zinc:
Prepd by the interaction of zinc and ethyl iodide
from zinc and ethyl bromide / ethyl iodide;
Properties: Mobile liquid. Stable in sealed tube and carbon dioxide. Ignites in air, burns with a blue flame, giving off a peculiar, garlic-like odor. Miscible with ether, petroleum ether, benzene, other hydrocarbons.
Use: In organic synthesis; in preservation on archival pape.
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 03-26-2001 11:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White phosphorus and yellow phosphorus are the same. It is not mixed with anything in most rounds. It is sometimes submerged in a petroleum liquid. The hermatically-sealed rounds are exploded by a burster charge, usually centrally located in the device. Don't allow air to contact this material. WP can "mess up your whole day".
WP can be converted to red phosphorus, for igniters, by sustained heating in a closed vessel for (?) hours at (?) degrees.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-30-2001 09:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have seen another method for making WP that involves heating tricalcium phosphate (main in gredient of bone ash) with carbon and silica. Is the sulfuric acid part just used to purify the phosphate? What purpose does silica serve? Is it a sort of flux or something to reduce the temperature needed?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 10:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sulfuric acid is used to remove all the organic and acid soluble material from the bones. If you're using bone ash than you don't need to use the acid step.
The silica is used to bind the calcium into a non-volatile silicate, freeing the phosphorus. I believe it also lowers the reaction temperature too.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-11-2001 11:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello NBK2000,
Have you made WP using the method you posted? If so what was the yield. Has anyone else tried it. Also I have seen many types of Phosphate fertilizers (example; Calcium Phosphate).Will any of these work if they are rich in Phosphate?
P.S.,White phosphorus is metastable and slowly changes to a stable form, red phosporus,in the presence of light or upon heating. Red phosphorus is far more stable than the white form. It does not catch fire in air at temperatures below 240°C whereas white phosphorus ignites at about 40°C. Red phosphorus cannot be converted into white
phosphorus except by vaporizing it.
Thanks.......................................
------------------
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-11-2001 01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No I haven't. I found this process in an old book about how to do just about everything yourself from the 1800s.
Calcium or ammonium phosphate will work in the process quite well. The ammonium salt is prefered because of the lower temperatures needed to break it up into phosphorus.
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-16-2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Obtain Phosphorus: Ground bone-ash, 12 parts; water, 24 parts; mix to a pap in a large tub, and add in a slender stream (still stirring) sulfuric acid, 8 parts; work well together, adding more water if required; in 24 hours thin with water, agitate well , and, if convenient, heat the mixture in a leaden pan, and as soon as the paste has lost its gramular charracter, transfer it into a series of tall casks; largely dilute with water; and, after settling, decant the clear portion; wash the residue well with water, mix the clear liquids, and evaporate in a copper or lead pan, till the calcarious deposit (gypsum) becomes considerable, then cool, decant the clear, and drain the sediment on a filter; evaporate the clear liquid to the consistence of honey (say to 4 parts), add 1 part of powdered charcoal, and evaporate to dryness in an iron pan or till the bottom of the latter becomes red hot; the dry mixture, when cold, is put into earthen retorts well covered with luting and property dried, and heat is applied sideways rather than at the bottom, by means of an air furnace. The beak of the retort is connected with a copper tube, the other end of which is made to dip about 1/4 inch beneath the surface of lukewarm water placed in a trough or wide-mouthed bottle. The distilled product is purified by squeezing it through chamois leather under warm water, and is then moulded for sale by melting it under water heated to about 145 F, plunging the wider end of a slightly tapering but straight glass tube. into the water, sucking this up to the top of the glass, so as to warm and wet it, next immersing the end into the liquid phosphorus, and sucking it up to any desired height. The bottom of the tube is now closed with the finger, it is withdrawn, and transferred to a pan of cold water to congeal the phosphorus, which will then commonly fall out, or may be easily be expelled by pressure with a piece of wire. Keep it in places where neither light nor heat has access, in phials filled with cold water which has been boiled to expel all air, and enclose the phials in opaque cases.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-17-2001 11:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly what are the uses of white/yellow Phosphorus(P)?
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Bandit
Frequent Poster
Posts: 82
From: U.K.
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-17-2001 12:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know about yellow, but white is used in grenades. It lights with contact with air. Tracer round use this as well.
Bandit
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 03-17-2001 01:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just be very careful making/handling this stuff - in addition to its obvious dangers it's highly toxic. Despite strict regulation of white phosphorous production in 1906, munitions workers in both wars suffered the effects of chronic exposure such as phosphonecrosis (phossy jaw), and acute exposure effects that included liver and kidney damage from inhalation and skin absorption. The fatal dose for humans is ridiculously small - on the order of 15 to 100 mg.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/uatw/hlthef/whitepho.html
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-21-2001 01:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Don't have earthen retorts, but say i did want to make this what is luting?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-21-2001 09:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Luting is a fireproof material used to seal the gaps between the retort and the condenser. The material used to seal fireplace cracks would work well.
Steel pipes would be suitable replacements for earthen retorts.
WP would be excellent for breaking contact with LEOs. Since the army WP grenade has a radius of more than 20 yards, and WP burns down into the flesh, is highly toxic, and provides excellent screening smoke, a WP grenade would be an ideal urban criminal weapon.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-21-2001 11:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is bone ash just ash from burning bone?
what would the WP be mixed with in a grenade? does it really explode in contact with air?
A WP grenade would really kick ass. from pics i have seen, it would really kill. even ruin night vision from a distance away. really a good screening / getaway weapon.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-21-2001 11:44 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bone ash is 'calcined bone' and the way i understand it is basically destructive distillation in the open. Roasting it like a mineral kinda. I read WP ingites @ 10-15 degrees above room temp. There still the chance that it would ignite below that though.
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 03-22-2001 12:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A useful reference on White Phosphorous properties: http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/dts/docs/detwp.pdf
According to this, WP ignites spontaneously with air *or* at 30 degrees C.
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-22-2001 06:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a picture showing the results of "phossy jaw".
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited March 22, 2001).]
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-22-2001 10:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ouch.. yuck..i mean fuck..that sucks
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 228
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-23-2001 01:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is probably of no use, but:
Today I found a bottle of 30% Phosphoric Acid... any use??
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-23-2001 06:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, don't quote me on this but you might be able to react it w/ a base and get a phosphate, and then use the phosphate *somewhere* in the process above.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-24-2001 12:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
May in an acid Cat. rx
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 03-24-2001 10:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agent Blak: what does that mean?
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 618
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 03-24-2001 10:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i.e. acid catalyzed reaction. like when you make AP
------------------
...Æ
SofaKing
Frequent Poster
Posts: 399
From: YEAH RIGHT !!
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 03-25-2001 01:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are other self-igniting compounds around. One I have heard mentioned is diethyl-zinc does anyone have info on that ?
Rhadon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 95
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 03-26-2001 08:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found sth. on diethyl zinc:
Prepd by the interaction of zinc and ethyl iodide
from zinc and ethyl bromide / ethyl iodide;
Properties: Mobile liquid. Stable in sealed tube and carbon dioxide. Ignites in air, burns with a blue flame, giving off a peculiar, garlic-like odor. Miscible with ether, petroleum ether, benzene, other hydrocarbons.
Use: In organic synthesis; in preservation on archival pape.
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 03-26-2001 11:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White phosphorus and yellow phosphorus are the same. It is not mixed with anything in most rounds. It is sometimes submerged in a petroleum liquid. The hermatically-sealed rounds are exploded by a burster charge, usually centrally located in the device. Don't allow air to contact this material. WP can "mess up your whole day".
WP can be converted to red phosphorus, for igniters, by sustained heating in a closed vessel for (?) hours at (?) degrees.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-30-2001 09:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have seen another method for making WP that involves heating tricalcium phosphate (main in gredient of bone ash) with carbon and silica. Is the sulfuric acid part just used to purify the phosphate? What purpose does silica serve? Is it a sort of flux or something to reduce the temperature needed?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-02-2001 10:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sulfuric acid is used to remove all the organic and acid soluble material from the bones. If you're using bone ash than you don't need to use the acid step.
The silica is used to bind the calcium into a non-volatile silicate, freeing the phosphorus. I believe it also lowers the reaction temperature too.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
Alchemist
Frequent Poster
Posts: 211
From: Woodland hills,Ca.,L.A.
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-11-2001 11:08 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello NBK2000,
Have you made WP using the method you posted? If so what was the yield. Has anyone else tried it. Also I have seen many types of Phosphate fertilizers (example; Calcium Phosphate).Will any of these work if they are rich in Phosphate?
P.S.,White phosphorus is metastable and slowly changes to a stable form, red phosporus,in the presence of light or upon heating. Red phosphorus is far more stable than the white form. It does not catch fire in air at temperatures below 240°C whereas white phosphorus ignites at about 40°C. Red phosphorus cannot be converted into white
phosphorus except by vaporizing it.
Thanks.......................................
------------------
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-11-2001 01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No I haven't. I found this process in an old book about how to do just about everything yourself from the 1800s.
Calcium or ammonium phosphate will work in the process quite well. The ammonium salt is prefered because of the lower temperatures needed to break it up into phosphorus.