megalomania
June 14th, 2003, 08:25 PM
phyrelord
Frequent Poster
Posts: 135
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-22-2001 10:58 PM
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what gas forms when you mix them together? I know it's a white cloud and it makes you sick as shit when you breath a little bit of it. Secondly is there any way of concentrating it or making it more potent. I was thinking of two ziploc bags, one filled with bleach and the other with ammonia, in a duffel bag would make a nice cloud when slammed and be inconspicuous, not to mention fuck people up. Any comments or ideas
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 02:11 AM
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Chlorine gas, nasty smell, and as little as 3.5ppm can be smelled by a human, it irritates the mucous membranes and makes it hard to breath, it can cause brain damage and 1000ppm is fatal.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-23-2001 05:28 PM
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White? I thought chlorine was green. A post a while back said that white clouds produced by (something i cant remember) is ammonium chloride vapor. It also makes hydrazine according to:
NaOCl + 2NH3 > N2H4 + H2O + NaCl
...but that takes a little work...
green beret
Frequent Poster
Posts: 101
From: Australia
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-24-2001 08:52 AM
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I also thought chlorine gas was green??
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 05:24 PM
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Yep. It isnt chlorine, its ammonium chloride. blackadder said this in the HTH+ Naphtha post a while back:
"Because of its high chlorine content, loads of chlorine (LOADS!!!) will be given off when you mix it with an acid or ammonium hydroxide (household ammonia)
sorry if that sounded kewl, I just had to say it.
I mixed a HTH tablet from the pool with ammonium hydroxide, and absolutely tons of Cl was given off, it was like everywhere!
Oh yeah, and I always get thick white chlorine, it is never a little greenish, like it's supposed to be. Why?"
...then nbk2000 responded with:
"Blackadder, I'd imagine that the chlorine is reacting with the ammonia to form ammonium chloride, which looks like white smoke.
Use hydrochloric acid with HTH and you'll get the green gas."
They were talking about HTH, which is Ca(OCl)2, and bleach is NaOCl.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-24-2001 05:43 PM
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Cl2 IS a pale greeny colour, but since it is heavier than air, it goes back into the solution and forms NH4Cl, ammonium chloride. Which is white! Which isn't as heavy as Cl2, and thus moves around in the air and this is the gas you see.
What we're doing is the following:
NH4OH + Substance* ==> Ammonium compound + Cl2
* When I said "substance" that means sodium hypochlorite, calcium hypochlorite, etc.
The above is the initial reaction, then later we get:
NH4OH + Cl2 ==> NH4Cl + other irrelavant shit
Now, that's because (I think) some of the unreacted NH4OH is reacting with the Cl2 and it form NH4Cl.
So, to prevent this shit from happening, we do the following:
Hcl + substance* ==> Cl2 + irrelavant compounds
There ya go, just replace the NH4OH with HCl and you won't get the NH4Cl coming out.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited April 25, 2001).]
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 11:55 PM
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Blackadder:
"Hcl + substance* ==> Cl2 + irrelavant compounds"
"Substance" could be MnO2:
MnO2 + 4HCl -> MnCl2 + Cl2 + 2H2O
The same process used by Scheele when discovering Chlorine.
I still cant figure out how you guys write the formula's like that, HTML?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the HTH and ammonia thing today and got white fumes too.
From the smell of it, it didn't seem too much like ammonia so I'm thinking ammonium chloride. But I'll have to test it with muriatic acid. If I get additional "smoke" than there's free ammonia.
Did you guys know that free ammonia also "smokes" in air?
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
Ezikiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 66
From: New Delhi, India
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-17-2001 09:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey I had tried it too but I used (NH4)2CO3 instead of NH4OH. I got Quite dense white fumes and when I sniffed a sample of the gas I didn't find it as pungent as Cl2 and NH4Cl vapours aren't pungent. And the solution left behind was somewhat like a dirty greenish yellow (similar to Nitrobenzene). the reaction was very vigourous and bubbly with no white fumes in the bubbles but the fumes seemed to from on contact with air. I could still smell NH3, after I blew off all the fumes, when I sniffed it. I added a lot of bleach (I didn't achieve the "no more reaction" state) and it also starts to heat up. That's when I quit adding more bleach.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 135
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 04-22-2001 10:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what gas forms when you mix them together? I know it's a white cloud and it makes you sick as shit when you breath a little bit of it. Secondly is there any way of concentrating it or making it more potent. I was thinking of two ziploc bags, one filled with bleach and the other with ammonia, in a duffel bag would make a nice cloud when slammed and be inconspicuous, not to mention fuck people up. Any comments or ideas
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-23-2001 02:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chlorine gas, nasty smell, and as little as 3.5ppm can be smelled by a human, it irritates the mucous membranes and makes it hard to breath, it can cause brain damage and 1000ppm is fatal.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-23-2001 05:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
White? I thought chlorine was green. A post a while back said that white clouds produced by (something i cant remember) is ammonium chloride vapor. It also makes hydrazine according to:
NaOCl + 2NH3 > N2H4 + H2O + NaCl
...but that takes a little work...
green beret
Frequent Poster
Posts: 101
From: Australia
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-24-2001 08:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also thought chlorine gas was green??
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 04-24-2001 05:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep. It isnt chlorine, its ammonium chloride. blackadder said this in the HTH+ Naphtha post a while back:
"Because of its high chlorine content, loads of chlorine (LOADS!!!) will be given off when you mix it with an acid or ammonium hydroxide (household ammonia)
sorry if that sounded kewl, I just had to say it.
I mixed a HTH tablet from the pool with ammonium hydroxide, and absolutely tons of Cl was given off, it was like everywhere!
Oh yeah, and I always get thick white chlorine, it is never a little greenish, like it's supposed to be. Why?"
...then nbk2000 responded with:
"Blackadder, I'd imagine that the chlorine is reacting with the ammonia to form ammonium chloride, which looks like white smoke.
Use hydrochloric acid with HTH and you'll get the green gas."
They were talking about HTH, which is Ca(OCl)2, and bleach is NaOCl.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 04-24-2001 05:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cl2 IS a pale greeny colour, but since it is heavier than air, it goes back into the solution and forms NH4Cl, ammonium chloride. Which is white! Which isn't as heavy as Cl2, and thus moves around in the air and this is the gas you see.
What we're doing is the following:
NH4OH + Substance* ==> Ammonium compound + Cl2
* When I said "substance" that means sodium hypochlorite, calcium hypochlorite, etc.
The above is the initial reaction, then later we get:
NH4OH + Cl2 ==> NH4Cl + other irrelavant shit
Now, that's because (I think) some of the unreacted NH4OH is reacting with the Cl2 and it form NH4Cl.
So, to prevent this shit from happening, we do the following:
Hcl + substance* ==> Cl2 + irrelavant compounds
There ya go, just replace the NH4OH with HCl and you won't get the NH4Cl coming out.
[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited April 25, 2001).]
BoB-
Frequent Poster
Posts: 679
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-24-2001 11:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blackadder:
"Hcl + substance* ==> Cl2 + irrelavant compounds"
"Substance" could be MnO2:
MnO2 + 4HCl -> MnCl2 + Cl2 + 2H2O
The same process used by Scheele when discovering Chlorine.
I still cant figure out how you guys write the formula's like that, HTML?
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1096
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 04-25-2001 01:04 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried the HTH and ammonia thing today and got white fumes too.
From the smell of it, it didn't seem too much like ammonia so I'm thinking ammonium chloride. But I'll have to test it with muriatic acid. If I get additional "smoke" than there's free ammonia.
Did you guys know that free ammonia also "smokes" in air?
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
Go here to download the NBK2000 videos.
Ezikiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 66
From: New Delhi, India
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-17-2001 09:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey I had tried it too but I used (NH4)2CO3 instead of NH4OH. I got Quite dense white fumes and when I sniffed a sample of the gas I didn't find it as pungent as Cl2 and NH4Cl vapours aren't pungent. And the solution left behind was somewhat like a dirty greenish yellow (similar to Nitrobenzene). the reaction was very vigourous and bubbly with no white fumes in the bubbles but the fumes seemed to from on contact with air. I could still smell NH3, after I blew off all the fumes, when I sniffed it. I added a lot of bleach (I didn't achieve the "no more reaction" state) and it also starts to heat up. That's when I quit adding more bleach.