megalomania
June 15th, 2003, 11:39 AM
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-09-2001 02:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Humm, well I know this type of topics is frequent but I just tried since I managed to have a distillation set (in fact to complete it), and I remembered that nitric acid was a good thing, useful thing to make with it, instead of alcool (I don't drink, and it smells bad when distilled). So I just tried tonight, a while before taking my shower and go to bed, very fastly. I didn't cooled the gas I got, but I would like to know if everything's OK.
When I heat NH4NO3 with 95% sulfuric acid, I get white gases, which come up the Vigreux' column, then go threw the cooler (I didn't make water go into it because I need to make a system for it). The white smell acid; And there is liquid which go down the column (normally it means that the column isn't at the good temperature, like a chiminea). this liquid is red. So, I know that I must cool, and all that, but before make all that, I just would like to know if the reaction is good, I mean if I'll get HNO3 if I cool.
And what is the red liquid ? concentrated nitric acid should make red fumes, but I never heard about red acid. What would be the formula of the white coulds ?
Thanks.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-09-2001 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red liquid. Sounds like red fuming nitric acid to me. An excess of NO2 (red gas) dissolved. I dont know what the white stuff is.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-10-2001 02:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is the white stuff H2SO4?
Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 290
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-10-2001 09:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COuld it be a little gaseous ammonia (NH3)?
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-10-2001 11:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the reaction when you distillate AN and sulfuric acid ? I think HNO3 is gaz then is cooled into the aqueous form.
Do you need to make the gazes you have bublle into water ?
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-10-2001 05:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe NBK2000 has said that pure ammonia can make white smokey stuff, so i suppose it could be. Sulfuric acid is supposed to make white smoke if it gets too hot, though.
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-11-2001 12:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to make nitrix acid again, with water in Liebig's tube to cool the gases. I obtained red gases, as I waited. Vigreux's column was wet because it hadn't dried since I washed it, and I obtained yellow liquid, not very acid compared to my 57 % nitric acid. Hum, I tried again and as Vigreux's column wasn't wet any more, red gases didn't cool enough or I don't know but I couldn't obtain any liquid: the gases instead of condensating, get in the beaker and "fly" away. So I tried to make red gases bubble in the yellow lliquid, but I couldn't obtain anything. I don't know what to do else.
What is wrong ? Has anyone tried before, and it worked ? Any advice ?
And would anyone know the reaction which happens ?
I use AN with sulfuric acid. Need I to use salpeter or sodium nitrate ? Are the red gases NO2 ?
Many questions, hope someone can answer. Thanks.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-11-2001 05:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say yes, the red gases are NO2 (or possibly NO).
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-13-2001 08:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited October 26, 2001).]
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-15-2001 11:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I searched in the Forum but couldn't find any topic where it's said how to purify it. How do you do ? I remember that a possible way was to put it in water, then filter, but don't really remember. And what is the max temperature you need to distilate nitric acid ?
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 02:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to purify ammonium nitrate, add water until it is all dissolved, and filter out any solids that won't dissolve( chalk etc. in fertiliser grade- as fire depressant) then heat until the water has completely evapourated, this leaves the AN in long crystals, which are also easier to crush.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 04:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000621.html
------------------
DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-16-2001 10:05 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I didn't use the right search keywords.
How may you be sure that chemicals added don't dissolve ? I try anyway. Thanks
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 06:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to reduce some AN prills to powder the other day, I dissolved the NA in water nad then boiled the solution with the intention of being left with a mass of dry crystals. What actually happened was it seemed to straight from a boiling AN solution to Boiling liquid AN! I only noticed because of the huge amount of smoke coming off it. Less heat next time methinks
Gab
New Member
Posts: 14
From: Québec, Canada
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-16-2001 10:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be careful as there is NO2 in this smoke.
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-16-2001 11:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to mention the fact that when molten AN starts giving off smoke it only has to get a little hotter before it explodes. Several texts mention that 275 degrees C is the "magic number".
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-17-2001 02:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If when you heat AN you get NO2, then can't you bubble that through HNO3 to concentrate it more?
wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 236
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-17-2001 06:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heating NH4NO3 results in formation of N2O, H2O. NH4NO3 --> N2O + 2H2O + 83 kJ.
Read this: http://internettrash.com/users/altreal/hno3/hno3usenet2.html
The german patent that is referred to by F.Z. states to use 1 mol NH4NO3 and min. 1 mole H2SO4 to ensure best reaction preformance.
http://odin.prohosting.com/~ratfuck/de280967.zip
------------------
for best catfood visit:
kangaroooo.cjb.net
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-18-2001 09:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that 275°C is the magic number, otherwise it would be extremly easy to detonate some AN. Think that a cigarette is about 750°C. AP would detonate it easily. And a thermite too. We would just have to mix AN and thermit to make a powerful explosive. I think.
And who knows the reaction which occurs when you make nitric acid from N2O or NO3- ?
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-09-2001 02:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Humm, well I know this type of topics is frequent but I just tried since I managed to have a distillation set (in fact to complete it), and I remembered that nitric acid was a good thing, useful thing to make with it, instead of alcool (I don't drink, and it smells bad when distilled). So I just tried tonight, a while before taking my shower and go to bed, very fastly. I didn't cooled the gas I got, but I would like to know if everything's OK.
When I heat NH4NO3 with 95% sulfuric acid, I get white gases, which come up the Vigreux' column, then go threw the cooler (I didn't make water go into it because I need to make a system for it). The white smell acid; And there is liquid which go down the column (normally it means that the column isn't at the good temperature, like a chiminea). this liquid is red. So, I know that I must cool, and all that, but before make all that, I just would like to know if the reaction is good, I mean if I'll get HNO3 if I cool.
And what is the red liquid ? concentrated nitric acid should make red fumes, but I never heard about red acid. What would be the formula of the white coulds ?
Thanks.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-09-2001 05:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red liquid. Sounds like red fuming nitric acid to me. An excess of NO2 (red gas) dissolved. I dont know what the white stuff is.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-10-2001 02:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is the white stuff H2SO4?
Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 290
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-10-2001 09:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COuld it be a little gaseous ammonia (NH3)?
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-10-2001 11:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the reaction when you distillate AN and sulfuric acid ? I think HNO3 is gaz then is cooled into the aqueous form.
Do you need to make the gazes you have bublle into water ?
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-10-2001 05:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe NBK2000 has said that pure ammonia can make white smokey stuff, so i suppose it could be. Sulfuric acid is supposed to make white smoke if it gets too hot, though.
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-11-2001 12:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to make nitrix acid again, with water in Liebig's tube to cool the gases. I obtained red gases, as I waited. Vigreux's column was wet because it hadn't dried since I washed it, and I obtained yellow liquid, not very acid compared to my 57 % nitric acid. Hum, I tried again and as Vigreux's column wasn't wet any more, red gases didn't cool enough or I don't know but I couldn't obtain any liquid: the gases instead of condensating, get in the beaker and "fly" away. So I tried to make red gases bubble in the yellow lliquid, but I couldn't obtain anything. I don't know what to do else.
What is wrong ? Has anyone tried before, and it worked ? Any advice ?
And would anyone know the reaction which happens ?
I use AN with sulfuric acid. Need I to use salpeter or sodium nitrate ? Are the red gases NO2 ?
Many questions, hope someone can answer. Thanks.
FadeToBlackened
Frequent Poster
Posts: 201
From: Hell
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-11-2001 05:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say yes, the red gases are NO2 (or possibly NO).
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-13-2001 08:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited October 26, 2001).]
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-15-2001 11:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I searched in the Forum but couldn't find any topic where it's said how to purify it. How do you do ? I remember that a possible way was to put it in water, then filter, but don't really remember. And what is the max temperature you need to distilate nitric acid ?
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 02:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to purify ammonium nitrate, add water until it is all dissolved, and filter out any solids that won't dissolve( chalk etc. in fertiliser grade- as fire depressant) then heat until the water has completely evapourated, this leaves the AN in long crystals, which are also easier to crush.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 04:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000621.html
------------------
DarkAngel
For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1
sendtosection1@hotmail.com
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-16-2001 10:05 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe I didn't use the right search keywords.
How may you be sure that chemicals added don't dissolve ? I try anyway. Thanks
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-16-2001 06:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to reduce some AN prills to powder the other day, I dissolved the NA in water nad then boiled the solution with the intention of being left with a mass of dry crystals. What actually happened was it seemed to straight from a boiling AN solution to Boiling liquid AN! I only noticed because of the huge amount of smoke coming off it. Less heat next time methinks
Gab
New Member
Posts: 14
From: Québec, Canada
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 05-16-2001 10:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Be careful as there is NO2 in this smoke.
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-16-2001 11:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not to mention the fact that when molten AN starts giving off smoke it only has to get a little hotter before it explodes. Several texts mention that 275 degrees C is the "magic number".
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 407
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-17-2001 02:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If when you heat AN you get NO2, then can't you bubble that through HNO3 to concentrate it more?
wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 236
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 05-17-2001 06:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heating NH4NO3 results in formation of N2O, H2O. NH4NO3 --> N2O + 2H2O + 83 kJ.
Read this: http://internettrash.com/users/altreal/hno3/hno3usenet2.html
The german patent that is referred to by F.Z. states to use 1 mol NH4NO3 and min. 1 mole H2SO4 to ensure best reaction preformance.
http://odin.prohosting.com/~ratfuck/de280967.zip
------------------
for best catfood visit:
kangaroooo.cjb.net
Arthis
Frequent Poster
Posts: 203
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-18-2001 09:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that 275°C is the magic number, otherwise it would be extremly easy to detonate some AN. Think that a cigarette is about 750°C. AP would detonate it easily. And a thermite too. We would just have to mix AN and thermit to make a powerful explosive. I think.
And who knows the reaction which occurs when you make nitric acid from N2O or NO3- ?