megalomania
June 17th, 2003, 04:15 PM
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-15-2001 08:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made improvised ammonium nitrate explosive from acetone peroxide, ammonium nitrate and bronze paint.
The formula is:
2,5%Bronze paint(alluminium powder dispersed in hydrocarbon solvent), can use 1%naphta and 1,5% Al powder.
9%Acetone Peroxide
88,5%NH4NO3
3-8ml microspheres(glass or styrofoam, I used styrofoam, to every 100g explosive
First the ammonium nitrate is powdered as fine as possible.
Then it is mixed with the paint.
After this the acetone peroxide(fine powder) is added to the mixture and is stirred until it is completely homogenous.
I tried two 40gram charges of it, the explosive is sensitive to N8 blasting cap. It gived briliant reasaults! Full detonation even when styrofoam is not added. The explosion was heared loudly more than 150 meters away from the test site(in a city!). The mixture is safe and almost insensitive to flame and friction. I think the detonation velocity is somewhere between 3500-4700m/s if pressed well. I'm gonna try 300 grams thais weekend if the weather is good! I'm also super interested if the bronze paint can be substituted with naphta(no Al powder).
Sorry that I can't provide photos...
Try 40-50 grams first to see what I'm talkimg about! What do you think?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-15-2001 01:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds good! I have a couple of questions, was the blasting cap a commercial one or did you make it, can you give specs? Do you mean 3-8gm of micro spheres/styrofoam? Because 3-8ml of styrofoam really isn't a lot!
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-15-2001 04:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The blasting caps I used were improvised ones! 4cm long 1cm diameter plastic cylinders, the walls of the plastic were 0,6mm wide(made from a pencil...). The upper end of the cap was tightly closed with glued paper. Then a hole near this end was made to ignite the peroxide. After this, the cap was filled(tightly packed) with acetone peroxide. In the hole was put small ammount of matchhead powder to ignite the peroxide easily and the fuse (KNO3-paper---homemade) was fitted to the cap with duct tape. The 'down' end of the cap was closed with one layer of alluminium foil and one layer duct tape. As you see normal homemade detonator, eh, it was more powerfyl than N8 cap, but N8 will also work. I plan using detonator with AP from starter for luminiscent lamp for the 300 grams!
The styrofoam is in ml... it needs only small ammount to act as a sensitizer, I think 2-3mm is the ideal diameter for the styro prill.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-15-2001 05:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I shall try this mix then if an AP detonator worked, I'll give it a go with a lump of AP puty for a detonator. Thanks for the information!
One more question, do you specifically need naptha? Or can it be substituted for something like acetone, petrol etc?
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited February 15, 2001).]
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-16-2001 05:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmmm. very intressting, i think i'll try this, keep up the good work Simply Red!
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-16-2001 06:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Petrol or kerosene, maybe gasoline with or without motor oil...but I will never use acetone since it is ketone, C=O is high energetic bond, it also will need higher quantity for the same oxigen balance,
I think acetone is less energetic when burned (in energy/mass(kj/g) tnan gasoline. Maybe fine charcoal dust will work...
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-16-2001 09:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I'll just get off my lazy butt and go buy some naptha! I will try a 100gm charge this weekend/early next week.
Bubba
Frequent Poster
Posts: 71
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 02-16-2001 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excuse my ignorance (at least try to ) BUT, is Naptha the same as Napthalene? Or is it Naphthalene melted down by something else?
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 02-16-2001 12:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
naptha isn't napathalene, it's white gas
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-18-2001 04:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
300 grams folks! Tested in abbandoned tank polygon... I placed the charge in the ditch for the tank lighted the wick, 30 cm long, and run away...BOOOOOM! It blew up lots of sandy dust(it was placed in a hole which was dig by the rain...)
The blasting cap contained 5 grams acetone peroxide, the ÀP in the charge was 9%...
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-18-2001 06:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent! What was the charge made up of? Because you said about trying with just naptha and no Al?
One more thing, are you sure the AN detonates? I don't doubt you, just wanting to make sure the blast isn't just the AP going off?
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-18-2001 11:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes... it seems a bit odd...
few months ago i put 700g of ANFO in a plastic bottle.... in the middle there was about 50g of ap... AP detonated, but ANFO didn't it just blew anfo away... now you tell that 5 grams can set similar mixture off... (i used 94% AN & 6% diesel fuel (by wight if i remember correctly))
i am not telling that you're wrong, but it is strange....
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 02-19-2001 01:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I beleive that you are either new to the forum, Didnt read all of the posts in the thread, Or are just plain stupid.
Obviously, I must simplify it for you.
The mixture conatains acetone peroxide, One of the Most sensitive explosives. More sensitive than Nitroglycerine. The mix also contains microsheres, which make the explosive less dense and easier to detonate. The explosive also contains bronze paint, which contains alluminum powder. Therefore, the mix is quite sensitive. Unlike anfo which needs extreme confinement and hefty cap.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-19-2001 01:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am not telling that it is not sensitive.... but you can also mix ap with sand and it goes boom...
AN == sand... i have tried to detonate it very many times, and every time failed. now i don't bother to try any more.
but maybe my an fertilizer is mixed with some shit like they put in an after oaklahoma bombing.
...and i registered to this forum a bit less than year ago... if that interests you ALENGOSVIG1.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 02-19-2001 01:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would you add sand to acetone peroxide? I doubt any peroxide need encouragement to detonate.
Why would you add sand to Ammonium nitrate? If you would think it would cause friction and set it off by that means. you are a incorect. I think perhaps you should go back to lurking of perhaps update your knowlwge of explosives. And yes, additives are often added to ammonium nitrate, but it can actaully increase the detonation velocity.
Oh yes, According to your information, you have been registered since september 6 months.
[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited February 19, 2001).]
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 158
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 02-19-2001 03:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read of a Acetone Peroxide mix which contains 40% Acetone Peroxide,57% Ammonium Nitrate and 3% Aluminium Powder.I was just wondering if this mix would make AP less sensitive and give it an extra power boost.
Demolition
[This message has been edited by Demolition (edited February 19, 2001).]
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-19-2001 07:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a deep boom, some sand flying and some smoke(white-gray), maybe the somoke contained Al2O3,not burned particles from the bronze solvent, nitrous oxides....it could have contained little undetonated NH4NO3....maybe....but the whole quantity AP in the charge was slightly less than 30g, such small quantity can't evaporate ~270g NH4NO3 and can't shatter coffee tin into small pieces(i could't find anything left from the casing ). I still don't know how will it work without the bronze, and as it seems I won't able to test it soon in large quantities...The mixture seems not to be dangerous if U work well with it, and not make it with 5kg hammer. 50%AN 50%AP is sensitive to flame, but only the AP burns if ignite in open air. If you mix well 20%AP 10Al powder -fine 70%AN and ignite in open air it seems that the most of it burns ))
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-19-2001 10:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALENGOSVIG1, he meant that mixing sand and AP still makes a detonatable mixture, but only the AP actually detonates. The same thing could beb happening with the AN.
Thanks again simply RED, I will try it.
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-19-2001 10:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway.... i'll try it... Thanks Simply Red.
Anthony: that's exactly what i meant.
and this forum was closed in august i beleive.... and all accounts were deleted (at least mine).
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-20-2001 10:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simply Red: Does it need strong confinement (steel, copper) or can i just put it in a pvc or paper tube?
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-20-2001 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the first 2 tests(40 grams explosive in each bomb) I put the explosive in plastic conatainers(1-2 mm thin). The chrge of 300 grams was put in coffee can, less than 1mm stell tin.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-20-2001 04:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are your measurements by weight(all of the %)?
did you use 34-0-0 fertilizer or lab grade?
did you get full detonation?
how big were the crater left?
Sounds great
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-21-2001 05:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything in WEIGHT%, except the styrofoam(in ml). The craters of the first 2 bombs were about 3,5-4 cm deep in medium hard soil, the 300grams were placed in a hole, so it was shattered and it didn't become deeper...
If/when U try this, POST YOUR REASULTS! It will be interesting to compare...
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 02-21-2001 06:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another very similar mixture that I've made is:
65% AN
20% HMTD
10% NC
3% Dark Al
2% napthalene (not naptha)
+ 1% microballons
I haven't done any experimenting to see if there are proportions which give better results, but this one works very well.
You can dampen it with acetone and corn it into very small grains for storage. To use the grains, pour them into your container, dampen with more acetone, and compact gently. I use 7.5 grams of HMTD/NC putty (85:15) as a detonator. Push the detonating charge into the main charge before the acetone has evapourated.
I think the AN might not actually detonate, but as the detonation wave from the HMTD in the mixture passes through it, the high temperatures decompose the AN, so it still releases all it's gas. Binding it with NC raises the density and the det. vel., although it will work without. I prefer HMTD to AP because it's more storage stable.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-09-2001 05:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This weekend I detonated 1 kilo of the same composition, but using other proportion( 20% AP, 78%AN, 2 %bronze paint). The mixture was packed in nescafe tin, slightly inforced with duct tape. The density was about 1g/cm3. The booster was 70 grams acetone peroxide packed in alluminium casing from old capacitor. I used 2 detonators to insure that misfuse won’t happen, the one was with normal fuse, the other was electric, they were inserted in the booster. The bomb was tested in the same abandoned tank test site that I used for the previous test. It was put in the same hole that was dig by the rain but this time , the hole was hardly deformed(shattered). I first lighted the fuse and then run like hell, I thought that I will have enough time to switch the electric detonator before the fuse burned, but…..BOOOOM!
I will provide photos as soon as I find digital camera of I find someone who will develop the film from the normal camera(do you think that I should give the foto such pics…). I haven’t made photos of this bomb but I will shot a new bomb 150grams, its detonator and the hole from the 1 kilo.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-10-2001 09:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
does anyone from aus know where to get micro balloons / spheres?
Has anyone been getting the 'server too busy' message when trying to acess the forum? i haven't been able to get in for the last few days.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-11-2001 05:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you guys suicidal? Mixing a primary explosive that is sensitive to friction, shock, heat and what else to a secundary explosive. Making that secundary explosive as sensitive as a primary with the force of a secundary explosive, real smart!
You probably can detonate the mixture easily by flame or by dropping it on the ground, you don't need a detonator just a small mistake/accident and boom....there you go.
It really is the most stupid thing you can do and shows you don't know a thing about explosives. Or maybe you guys are in it for the danger? That's cool. Keep up the good work then.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-11-2001 11:17 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure you know what you are talking about?Ive tried the mix and mine wasnt at all sensitive to flame. You make it sound like we are mixing Acetone Peroxide with a powerfull explosives like rdx or PETN. ITs just being mixed with AN/Paint. Its pretty much an anfo with paint and ap rather than FO. If anything, it is more safe than straight Acetone Peroxide. The sensitivity is alot lower and its no where near as powerful as strainght Acetone Peroxide. Or HMTD.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-11-2001 11:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I'm sure what I'm talking about. Always.
You're mixing a sensitive primary explosive with a secundary explosive. And that's very dangerous and not really smart. Stupid actually.
You can detonate secundary explosives with very small amounts of primary like a few milligrams(!) if in direct contact!
For example picric acid can be detonated with as less as 0.023 gram of mercuryfulminate pressed on top. And for other explosives it's the same thing. A few milligrams will suffice.
Now you see what do when mixing AP with AN?
It is probably not as sensitive as other secundary explosives (TNT, picric acid, RDX) mixed with a primary explosive, because ANFO is normally not capsensitive so detonating AP (set off by flame, friction or shock) in the AN mixture will not easily detonate the AN. But it is a very dangerous thing to do. I think if you raise the amount of AP you will be able to detonate this mixture by fuse.
[Yea, you know what you are talking about.That would explain why you cannot even spell "secondary". You make it sound like AN is already some powerfull and sensitive explosive ALENGOSVIG1]
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 11, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited May 11, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-11-2001 07:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What woulds you rather use? a)200gm AP or HMTD b)40gm AP or HMTD + 160gm AN?
I tried a mix of 20% AP 15% Al 65% AN. When ignited in the open the mix just burnt and not particulary fast. I put some on a steel plate and hit it hard with a hammer - it din't go off. I wrapped some in Al foil and placed a flame underneath it, it took about 30seconds for it detonate and that was after releasing smoke.
There's two ways to think of it, one is an AN explosive with AP as a sensitizer (a very good one too). Or a way of cutting and desesitizing AP. I'm not saying that I trust this stuff - I don't but it is easy, cheap and relatively powerful.
I doubt you'd get a full detonation without a blasting cap.
CodeMason
Frequent Poster
Posts: 383
From: Your Nightmares
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-12-2001 02:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TylerDurden:
Of course I'm sure what I'm talking about. Always.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I somehow doubt that.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're mixing a sensitive primary explosive with a secundary explosive. And that's very dangerous and not really smart. Stupid actually.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey genius, ANFO has a LOWER detonation velocity than straight out acetone peroxide! I have not heard of aluminium powder or microspheroids sensitizing explosive peroxides, so if anything, it would make the AP less sensitive. So it's gonna be safer!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can detonate secundary explosives with very small amounts of primary like a few milligrams(!) if in direct contact!
For example picric acid can be detonated with as less as 0.023 gram of mercuryfulminate pressed on top. And for other explosives it's the same thing. A few milligrams will suffice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woah, I don't think so. Trinitrophenol is pretty nsensitive. It would probably take at least 0.8 grams of mercury fulminate to set it off, even in direct contact. 0.023 grams wouldn't do shit.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-12-2001 01:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I misspelled secondary. Like you people know how to spell! At least I know WHAT I'm talking about and make some spelling mistakes, that's better than the other way round.
And what's the point of desentizising AP with ANFO? Making it unsuitable to be used as a primary explosive?!
Your just sensitizing the ANFO. It's an unusual approach, which I like but I just pointed out that it is very dangerous to mix primary explosives with secondary (did I spell it right this time?). Because they CAN be set off by milligrams of primary explosives! Read T.L. Davis for it. There you will find picric acid is detonated with 0.023(!) gram of mercuryfulminate. And for the other explosives (TNT, RDX, PETN) also a few milligrams is enough to set them off.
Now, why the ANFO with 20% AP added to it doesn't detonate by flame has probably two reasons: first, as I said earlier, because ANFO is not capsensitive. And secondly because AP only detonates when sufficiently confined. So when you heat or put a fuse in the confined sensitized ANFO it may detonate.
But maybe not. But I still would consider it a dangerous mixture. And of course it will not make the AP safer! It remains sensitive to heat, friction and shock. It just makes the ANFO unsafe and the AP useless.
By the way, there's an easy way to make capsensitive ANFO: use AN crystals (see the topic "activated ammoniumnitrate" in the H.E. section).
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 12, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 12, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-12-2001 02:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose it is a bit odd to mix a primary explosive with a secondary, because by needing a cap you're negating the deflageration to detonation property of the primary. None the less, it does make the AP considerably less sensitive to shock = safer.
It could possibly be used as a booster for ANFO because everyone can get AP, AN and FO. But I wouldn't trust a straight charge of AP capable of detonating ANFO.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-13-2001 05:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not just odd. It's dangerous. And that it makes AP less sensitive to shock doesn't make it safer. It remains sensitive to friction and heat. So you make the whole charge of ANFO dangerous. If you want safety you use a little primary explosive (=sensitive, relatively unsafe) in a blasting cap (relatively safe) to set a secondary explosive (=stable, safe, insensitive) off! And in case of explosives that are not capsensitive, you use a booster or sensitize the explosive some other way. In case of ANFO it's really simple: just add a little water (once again)!! (see: "activated ammoniumnitrate" for details).
I have to admit though, that I sometimes make mistakes: I said 0.023 gram of mercuryfulminate was able to initiate picric acid. Some found that hard to believe, and they are right: It's 0.023 gram of silverazide that sets picric acid off.
When you use mercuryfulminate you need 0.25 gram.
And here are some other figures: 0.4 gram of TNT placed in a no.6 capsule with a reenforcing cap can be initiated with 0.26 gram of mercuryfulminate. Without the endcap 0.37 gram is necessary. And only 0.05 silverazide will suffice to do the same.
And another interesting fact: "HMTD is considerably more effective than mercuryfulminate as a initiator of detonation". 0.4 gram of TNT in a no. 6 capsule (reenforced) needs 0.08 gram of HMTD. And picric acid and tetryl need as much as 0.05 gram HMTD.
I think this quite suprises you guys, doesn't it? So if you want to make the AP safer by adding a lot of it to ANFO go ahead, and have fun, but don't say I didn't warn you.
By the way, I hope I didn't make too many spelling mistakes.
"I am smart, I am capable and most importantly I am free all the ways that you are not"
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 13, 2001).]
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-13-2001 12:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to this Joker;
"I am smart, I am capable and most importantly I am free all the ways that you are not"
Regardless of whether you are right the end of you post cheapens the whole thing. let adopt an adult atitude for the forum.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-13-2001 01:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You start calling names. What kind of attitude is that? And do you realize where that can lead to?
Your lucky I don't care and just let it slide.
"All the ways you wished you could be....that's me."
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-13-2001 04:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This explosive has some great advantages:
1. It is absolutely cheap and available for everyone who knows how to make it.
2. It is very easy to be made and takes very small time(I made 1kilo from acetone, hydrogen peroxide, sulphuric acid,ammonium nitrate and bronze paint for 2 days).
3. It is relatively powerful (I think 60-70% of TNT (depending of what the proportion between the ammonium nitrate and the acetone peroxide).
4. It is relatively safe, relatively insensitive to shock, friction(yes, FRICTION, I’ve rubbed it between 2 boards and it didn’t went off) and flame when the acetone peroxide is 9 to about 30%.
5. It is easily initiatable and always gives full detonations.
Hey Tyler… do you make your blasting caps with a microscope? Your bombs will be impossible to defuse, they will never find the detonator... What you talk is absolutely unusable for the practical work with homemade devices, I wish I had 50 kg HMX, boosters and a lot of blasting caps, but I haven’t SO I MAKE IT MYSELF! Yes, ANFO, have you ever made it? If yes you sure know that it is initiatable with homemade detonator(or N8 equivalent) only in STRONG confinement and low density. But if you make it, inclose it in a steel pipe and shake it for example, the density highers and it is absloutely impossible to achieve detonation….If you want to initiate the ANFO easily you need low density and 2-4%fuel oil. Low density means LOW power and LOW detonation velocity. The mixture with 20%acetone peroxide can be pressed to density as high as you can press it. The activated ammonium nitrate seems interesting.
I know that plastifed HMX for example is better than this improvised explosive, but I haven’t got HMX and I use this or urea nitrate for high quantities at that time (I make high explosive in such quantities from a year). Yes, this is dangerous! EVEN THE THOUGHT OF AN EXPOSION INTERFERES WITH FEAR SOMETIMES AS YOU KNOW.
I think I will be able to provide some photos in 2 weeks time…
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-14-2001 03:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimplyRED> TylerDurden is the only one wise person here. Because he don't need any injuries to find out that AP + almost everything is less safe than straight AP. For example it reacts with metals(Al is ideal), as DOES all the shit like organic peroxides. Why do you think AP and HMTD is not produced industrially, when HMTD is a quite powerful and cheap primary explosive? It is because of its dangerous instability. You can of course say, that you made several tests - you tried to hit it with hammer, you tried to rub it between two boards - how nice! But have you already tried to let it stand for a week and rub it then, when it is "full-grown"? I know, that it seems like I only want to make you angry and that I have a couple of inferiority complexes etc... But the reason why I write this is that I want you and others to stay whole. Many researches have been made and there is no need of trying these mixtures. It is known, that they are extremelz unsafe. The probability of an accident is of course not 50% or so.. but it is many times more than is a danger of ordinary high explosives. It is the reason why people invited blasting caps. It is because they are scared handling sensitive material. If you want to make lots of safe and powerful explosive, just show some effort and make some DNT(it can be prepared without need of fuming nitric acid). The mixture of 10% DNT, 5% Al and 85% NH4NO3(as you say AN) is much more powerful than ANFO(lead block test 430ccm) and is cap sensitive(I have tried 700mg of PETN and even 1g of lead azide alone). If you need more brisance, just make DNT rich mixture(30% DNT, 10% Al, 60% AN) and press it. You will need a stronger detonator(~10g PETN, haven't tried) but it will do the job. I know that obtaining PETN and RDX is tough and expensive, but you should consider it. Even if you use HMTD as a subsitute of safe primary explosive(please don't put it in the metal casing..) it will be always more safe than using mixtures like you describe..
I hope nobody will annoy me with my spelling mistakes.. I do not do them in my native language.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-14-2001 05:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Simply RED, I am just warning you that it is dangerous, that's all. Now, it seems that AP mixed with AN is not readily set off by friction or shock, but I would not trust it.
And pressing the mixture in a steel pipe for higher density...some guys don't even dare to press 1 gram of AP in capsule to make a detonator and you're pressing a whole lot of AP/AN mixture in a steel pipe, you got nerves man.
Of course detonators are not made with a few milligrams of primary. That was done by scientist to figure out how much was needed to set secondary explosives off. And it's not much!
And of course I know the facts about ANFO. It's indeed necessary to make it capsensitive if you don't have a booster. But there are many ways to make it capsensitive. You can lower the density by powdering the prills (or use the special LDAN prills) and/or by adding sawdust, powdered styrofoam even instant coffee. And you could also use....water!
By the way, you could use ANNM as a booster.
Now, I don't want to spoil your idea, I just pointed out the (possible) dangers. I personally would sensitize the ANFO (or desensitize AP) with inert materials like styrofoam.
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 14, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-14-2001 01:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of insane ideas here!
AN is fairly unsensitive, it is sensitised by Al powder and microspheres,...! And you want to mix this with CTAP???? Go ahead guys and disappear from the face of the earth!
CTAP is a primary explosive that a lot of you use as detonator!What I strongly disaprove...but you are master of your destiny!
Let me remind you why the hell in military explosives they separates always detonators from main secondary charges....for SAFETY reasons!Thus the detonator is inserted in the HE just before use...have you ever seen a HE being sold with detonator in it...of course no!
Now a little TRUE story of a great friend of mine...he ones played with CTAP/and AN mix (I don't know the proportion but it is not important here (I think it was 50/50 mix)); he was also hoping for a reduction of the sensitivity of CTAP in a way to secure CTAP and have more safety while handling it!So he had a pile of 30g mix next to him in his basement ready to be put in a container (THUS NOT CONFINED YET!!!) and working on something else....at one meter of him, the pile exploded/detonated for no apparent reason.
CONCLUSIONS:
-A hole of 10cm diameter in the basement concrete
-hear ringing/deaphness for 4 days
-all the neighbourghood knew about his passion and where looking at him severely everytime speaking about him when passing by
-police came to investigate due to phone calls
-Parents scared to death an not wanting him to experience anymore-NEVER!Nor to speak about related subjects!
-He was a lucky bastard not being hit by any schrapnels since the stuff was not confined in a solid container like he was planned to do; but also to be far enough or not holding the stuff when it went boom!
-Now when speaking about or being close to peroxydes even in little quantity he is scared!
Thus playing with 100g SANFO (sensitised ANFO) is 99.9999% safe!
Playing with 100g of CTAP is insane!
Playing with 10g CTAP is 80% safe if unconfined but 70% safe if confined!
Playing with 90g AN mixed with 10g CTAP is 75% safe!
This means that you have one chance on five to blow yourself with 10g pure and dry CTAP, but even more chance when it is confined (due to shrapnels that can cut your fingers even inside a PVC pipe...also knowing that the VOD increases with the strenght of the container thus unsafety goes from metal to breackable plastics,to glass, and to soft plastics).That safety decreases when you add to those 10g, 90g of AN since maybe it is less senitive than pure CTAP but it is stil a 100g charge of medium to HE!
The same applies to HMTD!!!!!
I hope you will not learn to follow our (us the wise guys) ideas because you will have made the same experience as my friend OR EVEN A WORST ONE!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-14-2001 05:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, Philou, I will trust you and stop playing permanently with this stuff! That’s right, it’s not as safe as TNT for example, but it was safe enough to experiment with 2 kg till now with absolutely no accident, the last 1kg bomb was made with 200grams acetone peroxide (I put it in 5 places before mixing). Now I have experience with average devices, I dream making 10kg of the next mixture: ammonium nitrate, smokeless powder and acetone as described in the nbk2000’s pdf. I’m gonna make it when I find the smokeless powder… My next ideas for homemade stuff are: perchlorates, nitrobenzene with ammonium nitrate(the mono and dinitrobenzene are available from my chem suplier but at a high cost, I won’t have the chance to experiment with this stuff soon), I will try nitrostarch soon. How sensitive will be the mix of urea nitrate, ammonium nitrate and bronze paint?
Oh, how could I forget……..AMMONIUM NITATE WITH RED PHOSPHOROUS,I CAN BUY 100GRAMS RED P AT NO COST…..
I’ve never made it but I know it is SUPER dangerous( AN +red P)(as I read in alt.engr.explosives). Such explosive is described in KIPE. Philou, have you got any info for this?
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-14-2001 05:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did NBK2000 release a new PDF
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-15-2001 08:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good idea; you may use CTAP but only as a detonator (thus placed at the end when in place to blast!)
A 2g detonator should be enough to set off 100g-1000g or 10kg of the mix you want to try
NC/AN/Al (+ NM for little kick and to make a kind of plastic).
Via a shop I also have nitrobenzene and dinitrobenzene (I have TNB but not from a seller); I aslo have nitrophenol, dinitrophenol and TNP!
That's expensive but worth having!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-15-2001 08:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes AN + nitroderivatives (mono, di or trinitrobenzene (or toluene) are more cap sensitive than straight AN!
AN + P should be OK; it could only burn fearcely when lighted...it will never be as critically sensitive than KClO3/S/P/C mix-Armstrong's mixes!It will need a powerful detonator (maybe slightly less than AN alone).
Urea nitrate/AN/Al should be OK since UN is more sensitive to shock than AN..this means a better cap sensitivity for an equal power!
UN is usually more powerful than AN!!!It has a higher VOD: 4200m/s vs 3300m/s!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-31-2001 01:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I at last had time to try this mix...
I made about 150grams of it. Put into small plastic bottle. Detonator was ~1cm high, ~3cm diameter bottle (film canister.. i cut it lower) full of pure AP.
i went into woods.... where was old BMW frame. charge was put into door. door was open. I ignited it and ran about 20m far and took cover. BOOOOMM!!!!! holy shit ... i never thought it'd be that powerful... i went to see what happened. and guess what ? whole door was gone!
uh... i read what philou said...
i made it like this 115gAN + 10g AP + 4ml styrofoam + Al paint. And i tried to light smaller amounts of it.... it didn't do anything... only popped. I think one possible thing that may make it unstable is that when AP is not pure of acid, the acid might react with Al?
[This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited May 31, 2001).]
eNt0n
New Member
Posts: 19
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-31-2001 01:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a short question:
Is this mixture (AN+AP+Al) powerful enough to set of ANFO??
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-05-2001 01:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tested few days ago again this stuff... it was mix what was left from my test on car door. mix + a bit pure AP(to boost) was put into tube (27mm diameter, 45mm height).
I pressed it into soil, next to narrow tree or bush (diameter about 35mm). fired fuse. boom ... this small tree was cut right where explosive was.
I think that when mixing very small amount dry PH7 AP (maybe <9%) with this mix of AN+Al+styrofoam+naphta _right_before_ using it is rather safe.
but i plan to test same mix without AP i'll give test results.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-05-2001 07:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made again a small bomb containing 70 grams of this stuff . The detonator was a machbox full half of AP, fuse ignited. It was nice...
What do you mean with this: "It was mix what was left from the car door test". Some explosive you make then and left it to store or something else?
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-05-2001 03:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry... my english isnt the best... i meant that i made a bit bigger amount of it than i blew up at the first time.
Ok... i tell you little secret me and my frinds wanna try 1kg of it. (using less ap in mix and therefore bigger detonator ... should be safer i guess).
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 02:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.... i exploded this mixture:
900g AN
70g AP
12g AL
4g diesel fuel
36ml styrofoam
detonator ~10g AP (trigered by old clock which lighted small light bulb)
we were ~200-300m far away when it blew... as a surprise sound wasn't very loud. but damage it did was nice we had put it under solid concrete block (4m x 1.5m x 20cm) (it had holes in it along side ... um.. i mean like cylinders 4m long inside it).... after explosion there was hole in the middle ~1m wide and it had a lot of cracks in it... but surprise was that ~1 m far of it was another same type block... it was moved ~1m further and was broken into 2 pieces (also had smaller cracks)
anyway... soon i'll post pictures
ok
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-08-2001 05:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My device was the same, only the peroxide was 20%, the booster was about 70 grams and I used 2 detonators, one electric. It will be good to take photos,I have shot only one electric detonator at that time
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 228
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out http://donuttyfiles.50megs.com/main.htm
A video of ALAPAN (Aluminium / Tricycloacetoneperoxide / Ammonium Nitrate) in 5:55:40 mix.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-10-2001 07:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've just mixed up 100g of Tovex, and I'll be detonating it next time I go to my friend's field.
I think the method I used came from ALENGOSVIG1's site. It is 55 grams of AN, 20 grams of Al, 10 grams of KNO3, 2.5 grams of starch, 2.5 grams of gelatine, 1 gram of potassium dichromate, a pinch of urea, and just enough water to dissolve the AN at 100*C (about 10 mL).
I'll post results here.
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-10-2001 08:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO it rather burns , than detonates... only detonateable ingredient is AN and so small part of all the mixture.
For next time I make something like this, I'll invent a digital counter with leds. Basic... based on 555 timer and 4022 johnson counter. If anyone interested of schematics, feel free to ask (i first of course test it hard)
[This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited June 10, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-10-2001 09:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're talking about Tovex, I think it will detonate but it will need a powerful detonator, maybe even a booster. It's fairly similar to some blasting explosives for use in mines and quarries, e.g. slurry explosives and aqueous gels.
It appears to have lots of tiny gas bubbles in it (maybe some of the Al reacting with the water, speeded up by the slightly acid AN solution?), which should increase sensitivity.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-10-2001 10:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited October 26, 2001).]
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-10-2001 11:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you have that book?
Contact me
agent_blak@yahoo.com
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-11-2001 03:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i will be trying a few different mixes soon. i just have to find the time to set them off. I will be attampting to set off some Improvised calonite. Instead of using ammonium nitrate ill try calcium nitrate. i dont have any Aluminum powder right now unfortionately. so im going to try CN/AP/FO, CN/AP/Napthalene or charcoal. ill attaempt some CN/picric acid too. i Have no idea if ANY of these will work. well see in time.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 03:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chainsaw, you would be very kind to send me the shemes you are refering to at LOUIS.PH@USA.net!
I have also planned to do an ultrafast chronometer or someting like that to have a tangible estimation of the VOD of HE and LE!
Ideally for a 50cm pipe we would need a chronometer that can mesure time as little as 0.50m*1/15000 s/m= 3.333 *10exp-5s= 0.00003333sec = 33.33 microseconds!
So the best would be a microsecond counter!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-12-2001 09:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just detonated some CN/AP/acetone. i used about 80 grams CN, 12 grams ap, and about 7 grams acetone. worked great! full detonation from 2 grams of ap in a rifle shell.
------------------
How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?
Explosives Archive
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-25-2001 12:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok... i detonated: about 2,3kg of anfo+Al , 0,7kg of this mix(contained 40g of ap) with 10grams of AP. Under old car wreck that was on top of the pile of rocks (in the centre of big field). Detonated nicely i think... at least car was almost blown in half... it flew about 10 meters high and landed 10 meters far from original location (i made some pics. i have to scan them)
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-15-2001 08:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made improvised ammonium nitrate explosive from acetone peroxide, ammonium nitrate and bronze paint.
The formula is:
2,5%Bronze paint(alluminium powder dispersed in hydrocarbon solvent), can use 1%naphta and 1,5% Al powder.
9%Acetone Peroxide
88,5%NH4NO3
3-8ml microspheres(glass or styrofoam, I used styrofoam, to every 100g explosive
First the ammonium nitrate is powdered as fine as possible.
Then it is mixed with the paint.
After this the acetone peroxide(fine powder) is added to the mixture and is stirred until it is completely homogenous.
I tried two 40gram charges of it, the explosive is sensitive to N8 blasting cap. It gived briliant reasaults! Full detonation even when styrofoam is not added. The explosion was heared loudly more than 150 meters away from the test site(in a city!). The mixture is safe and almost insensitive to flame and friction. I think the detonation velocity is somewhere between 3500-4700m/s if pressed well. I'm gonna try 300 grams thais weekend if the weather is good! I'm also super interested if the bronze paint can be substituted with naphta(no Al powder).
Sorry that I can't provide photos...
Try 40-50 grams first to see what I'm talkimg about! What do you think?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-15-2001 01:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds good! I have a couple of questions, was the blasting cap a commercial one or did you make it, can you give specs? Do you mean 3-8gm of micro spheres/styrofoam? Because 3-8ml of styrofoam really isn't a lot!
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-15-2001 04:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The blasting caps I used were improvised ones! 4cm long 1cm diameter plastic cylinders, the walls of the plastic were 0,6mm wide(made from a pencil...). The upper end of the cap was tightly closed with glued paper. Then a hole near this end was made to ignite the peroxide. After this, the cap was filled(tightly packed) with acetone peroxide. In the hole was put small ammount of matchhead powder to ignite the peroxide easily and the fuse (KNO3-paper---homemade) was fitted to the cap with duct tape. The 'down' end of the cap was closed with one layer of alluminium foil and one layer duct tape. As you see normal homemade detonator, eh, it was more powerfyl than N8 cap, but N8 will also work. I plan using detonator with AP from starter for luminiscent lamp for the 300 grams!
The styrofoam is in ml... it needs only small ammount to act as a sensitizer, I think 2-3mm is the ideal diameter for the styro prill.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-15-2001 05:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I shall try this mix then if an AP detonator worked, I'll give it a go with a lump of AP puty for a detonator. Thanks for the information!
One more question, do you specifically need naptha? Or can it be substituted for something like acetone, petrol etc?
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited February 15, 2001).]
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-16-2001 05:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmmm. very intressting, i think i'll try this, keep up the good work Simply Red!
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-16-2001 06:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Petrol or kerosene, maybe gasoline with or without motor oil...but I will never use acetone since it is ketone, C=O is high energetic bond, it also will need higher quantity for the same oxigen balance,
I think acetone is less energetic when burned (in energy/mass(kj/g) tnan gasoline. Maybe fine charcoal dust will work...
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-16-2001 09:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I'll just get off my lazy butt and go buy some naptha! I will try a 100gm charge this weekend/early next week.
Bubba
Frequent Poster
Posts: 71
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 02-16-2001 11:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excuse my ignorance (at least try to ) BUT, is Naptha the same as Napthalene? Or is it Naphthalene melted down by something else?
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 02-16-2001 12:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
naptha isn't napathalene, it's white gas
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-18-2001 04:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
300 grams folks! Tested in abbandoned tank polygon... I placed the charge in the ditch for the tank lighted the wick, 30 cm long, and run away...BOOOOOM! It blew up lots of sandy dust(it was placed in a hole which was dig by the rain...)
The blasting cap contained 5 grams acetone peroxide, the ÀP in the charge was 9%...
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-18-2001 06:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent! What was the charge made up of? Because you said about trying with just naptha and no Al?
One more thing, are you sure the AN detonates? I don't doubt you, just wanting to make sure the blast isn't just the AP going off?
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-18-2001 11:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes... it seems a bit odd...
few months ago i put 700g of ANFO in a plastic bottle.... in the middle there was about 50g of ap... AP detonated, but ANFO didn't it just blew anfo away... now you tell that 5 grams can set similar mixture off... (i used 94% AN & 6% diesel fuel (by wight if i remember correctly))
i am not telling that you're wrong, but it is strange....
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 02-19-2001 01:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I beleive that you are either new to the forum, Didnt read all of the posts in the thread, Or are just plain stupid.
Obviously, I must simplify it for you.
The mixture conatains acetone peroxide, One of the Most sensitive explosives. More sensitive than Nitroglycerine. The mix also contains microsheres, which make the explosive less dense and easier to detonate. The explosive also contains bronze paint, which contains alluminum powder. Therefore, the mix is quite sensitive. Unlike anfo which needs extreme confinement and hefty cap.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-19-2001 01:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am not telling that it is not sensitive.... but you can also mix ap with sand and it goes boom...
AN == sand... i have tried to detonate it very many times, and every time failed. now i don't bother to try any more.
but maybe my an fertilizer is mixed with some shit like they put in an after oaklahoma bombing.
...and i registered to this forum a bit less than year ago... if that interests you ALENGOSVIG1.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 02-19-2001 01:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would you add sand to acetone peroxide? I doubt any peroxide need encouragement to detonate.
Why would you add sand to Ammonium nitrate? If you would think it would cause friction and set it off by that means. you are a incorect. I think perhaps you should go back to lurking of perhaps update your knowlwge of explosives. And yes, additives are often added to ammonium nitrate, but it can actaully increase the detonation velocity.
Oh yes, According to your information, you have been registered since september 6 months.
[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited February 19, 2001).]
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 158
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 02-19-2001 03:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read of a Acetone Peroxide mix which contains 40% Acetone Peroxide,57% Ammonium Nitrate and 3% Aluminium Powder.I was just wondering if this mix would make AP less sensitive and give it an extra power boost.
Demolition
[This message has been edited by Demolition (edited February 19, 2001).]
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-19-2001 07:16 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a deep boom, some sand flying and some smoke(white-gray), maybe the somoke contained Al2O3,not burned particles from the bronze solvent, nitrous oxides....it could have contained little undetonated NH4NO3....maybe....but the whole quantity AP in the charge was slightly less than 30g, such small quantity can't evaporate ~270g NH4NO3 and can't shatter coffee tin into small pieces(i could't find anything left from the casing ). I still don't know how will it work without the bronze, and as it seems I won't able to test it soon in large quantities...The mixture seems not to be dangerous if U work well with it, and not make it with 5kg hammer. 50%AN 50%AP is sensitive to flame, but only the AP burns if ignite in open air. If you mix well 20%AP 10Al powder -fine 70%AN and ignite in open air it seems that the most of it burns ))
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-19-2001 10:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALENGOSVIG1, he meant that mixing sand and AP still makes a detonatable mixture, but only the AP actually detonates. The same thing could beb happening with the AN.
Thanks again simply RED, I will try it.
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-19-2001 10:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway.... i'll try it... Thanks Simply Red.
Anthony: that's exactly what i meant.
and this forum was closed in august i beleive.... and all accounts were deleted (at least mine).
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-20-2001 10:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simply Red: Does it need strong confinement (steel, copper) or can i just put it in a pvc or paper tube?
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-20-2001 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the first 2 tests(40 grams explosive in each bomb) I put the explosive in plastic conatainers(1-2 mm thin). The chrge of 300 grams was put in coffee can, less than 1mm stell tin.
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 02-20-2001 04:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are your measurements by weight(all of the %)?
did you use 34-0-0 fertilizer or lab grade?
did you get full detonation?
how big were the crater left?
Sounds great
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...I Am Not Much of a Dancer But,
Just Wait Till The Fucking Begins"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 02-21-2001 05:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything in WEIGHT%, except the styrofoam(in ml). The craters of the first 2 bombs were about 3,5-4 cm deep in medium hard soil, the 300grams were placed in a hole, so it was shattered and it didn't become deeper...
If/when U try this, POST YOUR REASULTS! It will be interesting to compare...
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 02-21-2001 06:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another very similar mixture that I've made is:
65% AN
20% HMTD
10% NC
3% Dark Al
2% napthalene (not naptha)
+ 1% microballons
I haven't done any experimenting to see if there are proportions which give better results, but this one works very well.
You can dampen it with acetone and corn it into very small grains for storage. To use the grains, pour them into your container, dampen with more acetone, and compact gently. I use 7.5 grams of HMTD/NC putty (85:15) as a detonator. Push the detonating charge into the main charge before the acetone has evapourated.
I think the AN might not actually detonate, but as the detonation wave from the HMTD in the mixture passes through it, the high temperatures decompose the AN, so it still releases all it's gas. Binding it with NC raises the density and the det. vel., although it will work without. I prefer HMTD to AP because it's more storage stable.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-09-2001 05:40 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This weekend I detonated 1 kilo of the same composition, but using other proportion( 20% AP, 78%AN, 2 %bronze paint). The mixture was packed in nescafe tin, slightly inforced with duct tape. The density was about 1g/cm3. The booster was 70 grams acetone peroxide packed in alluminium casing from old capacitor. I used 2 detonators to insure that misfuse won’t happen, the one was with normal fuse, the other was electric, they were inserted in the booster. The bomb was tested in the same abandoned tank test site that I used for the previous test. It was put in the same hole that was dig by the rain but this time , the hole was hardly deformed(shattered). I first lighted the fuse and then run like hell, I thought that I will have enough time to switch the electric detonator before the fuse burned, but…..BOOOOM!
I will provide photos as soon as I find digital camera of I find someone who will develop the film from the normal camera(do you think that I should give the foto such pics…). I haven’t made photos of this bomb but I will shot a new bomb 150grams, its detonator and the hole from the 1 kilo.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-10-2001 09:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
does anyone from aus know where to get micro balloons / spheres?
Has anyone been getting the 'server too busy' message when trying to acess the forum? i haven't been able to get in for the last few days.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-11-2001 05:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you guys suicidal? Mixing a primary explosive that is sensitive to friction, shock, heat and what else to a secundary explosive. Making that secundary explosive as sensitive as a primary with the force of a secundary explosive, real smart!
You probably can detonate the mixture easily by flame or by dropping it on the ground, you don't need a detonator just a small mistake/accident and boom....there you go.
It really is the most stupid thing you can do and shows you don't know a thing about explosives. Or maybe you guys are in it for the danger? That's cool. Keep up the good work then.
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-11-2001 11:17 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure you know what you are talking about?Ive tried the mix and mine wasnt at all sensitive to flame. You make it sound like we are mixing Acetone Peroxide with a powerfull explosives like rdx or PETN. ITs just being mixed with AN/Paint. Its pretty much an anfo with paint and ap rather than FO. If anything, it is more safe than straight Acetone Peroxide. The sensitivity is alot lower and its no where near as powerful as strainght Acetone Peroxide. Or HMTD.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-11-2001 11:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course I'm sure what I'm talking about. Always.
You're mixing a sensitive primary explosive with a secundary explosive. And that's very dangerous and not really smart. Stupid actually.
You can detonate secundary explosives with very small amounts of primary like a few milligrams(!) if in direct contact!
For example picric acid can be detonated with as less as 0.023 gram of mercuryfulminate pressed on top. And for other explosives it's the same thing. A few milligrams will suffice.
Now you see what do when mixing AP with AN?
It is probably not as sensitive as other secundary explosives (TNT, picric acid, RDX) mixed with a primary explosive, because ANFO is normally not capsensitive so detonating AP (set off by flame, friction or shock) in the AN mixture will not easily detonate the AN. But it is a very dangerous thing to do. I think if you raise the amount of AP you will be able to detonate this mixture by fuse.
[Yea, you know what you are talking about.That would explain why you cannot even spell "secondary". You make it sound like AN is already some powerfull and sensitive explosive ALENGOSVIG1]
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 11, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited May 11, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-11-2001 07:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What woulds you rather use? a)200gm AP or HMTD b)40gm AP or HMTD + 160gm AN?
I tried a mix of 20% AP 15% Al 65% AN. When ignited in the open the mix just burnt and not particulary fast. I put some on a steel plate and hit it hard with a hammer - it din't go off. I wrapped some in Al foil and placed a flame underneath it, it took about 30seconds for it detonate and that was after releasing smoke.
There's two ways to think of it, one is an AN explosive with AP as a sensitizer (a very good one too). Or a way of cutting and desesitizing AP. I'm not saying that I trust this stuff - I don't but it is easy, cheap and relatively powerful.
I doubt you'd get a full detonation without a blasting cap.
CodeMason
Frequent Poster
Posts: 383
From: Your Nightmares
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 05-12-2001 02:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by TylerDurden:
Of course I'm sure what I'm talking about. Always.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I somehow doubt that.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're mixing a sensitive primary explosive with a secundary explosive. And that's very dangerous and not really smart. Stupid actually.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey genius, ANFO has a LOWER detonation velocity than straight out acetone peroxide! I have not heard of aluminium powder or microspheroids sensitizing explosive peroxides, so if anything, it would make the AP less sensitive. So it's gonna be safer!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can detonate secundary explosives with very small amounts of primary like a few milligrams(!) if in direct contact!
For example picric acid can be detonated with as less as 0.023 gram of mercuryfulminate pressed on top. And for other explosives it's the same thing. A few milligrams will suffice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woah, I don't think so. Trinitrophenol is pretty nsensitive. It would probably take at least 0.8 grams of mercury fulminate to set it off, even in direct contact. 0.023 grams wouldn't do shit.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-12-2001 01:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I misspelled secondary. Like you people know how to spell! At least I know WHAT I'm talking about and make some spelling mistakes, that's better than the other way round.
And what's the point of desentizising AP with ANFO? Making it unsuitable to be used as a primary explosive?!
Your just sensitizing the ANFO. It's an unusual approach, which I like but I just pointed out that it is very dangerous to mix primary explosives with secondary (did I spell it right this time?). Because they CAN be set off by milligrams of primary explosives! Read T.L. Davis for it. There you will find picric acid is detonated with 0.023(!) gram of mercuryfulminate. And for the other explosives (TNT, RDX, PETN) also a few milligrams is enough to set them off.
Now, why the ANFO with 20% AP added to it doesn't detonate by flame has probably two reasons: first, as I said earlier, because ANFO is not capsensitive. And secondly because AP only detonates when sufficiently confined. So when you heat or put a fuse in the confined sensitized ANFO it may detonate.
But maybe not. But I still would consider it a dangerous mixture. And of course it will not make the AP safer! It remains sensitive to heat, friction and shock. It just makes the ANFO unsafe and the AP useless.
By the way, there's an easy way to make capsensitive ANFO: use AN crystals (see the topic "activated ammoniumnitrate" in the H.E. section).
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 12, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 12, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-12-2001 02:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose it is a bit odd to mix a primary explosive with a secondary, because by needing a cap you're negating the deflageration to detonation property of the primary. None the less, it does make the AP considerably less sensitive to shock = safer.
It could possibly be used as a booster for ANFO because everyone can get AP, AN and FO. But I wouldn't trust a straight charge of AP capable of detonating ANFO.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-13-2001 05:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not just odd. It's dangerous. And that it makes AP less sensitive to shock doesn't make it safer. It remains sensitive to friction and heat. So you make the whole charge of ANFO dangerous. If you want safety you use a little primary explosive (=sensitive, relatively unsafe) in a blasting cap (relatively safe) to set a secondary explosive (=stable, safe, insensitive) off! And in case of explosives that are not capsensitive, you use a booster or sensitize the explosive some other way. In case of ANFO it's really simple: just add a little water (once again)!! (see: "activated ammoniumnitrate" for details).
I have to admit though, that I sometimes make mistakes: I said 0.023 gram of mercuryfulminate was able to initiate picric acid. Some found that hard to believe, and they are right: It's 0.023 gram of silverazide that sets picric acid off.
When you use mercuryfulminate you need 0.25 gram.
And here are some other figures: 0.4 gram of TNT placed in a no.6 capsule with a reenforcing cap can be initiated with 0.26 gram of mercuryfulminate. Without the endcap 0.37 gram is necessary. And only 0.05 silverazide will suffice to do the same.
And another interesting fact: "HMTD is considerably more effective than mercuryfulminate as a initiator of detonation". 0.4 gram of TNT in a no. 6 capsule (reenforced) needs 0.08 gram of HMTD. And picric acid and tetryl need as much as 0.05 gram HMTD.
I think this quite suprises you guys, doesn't it? So if you want to make the AP safer by adding a lot of it to ANFO go ahead, and have fun, but don't say I didn't warn you.
By the way, I hope I didn't make too many spelling mistakes.
"I am smart, I am capable and most importantly I am free all the ways that you are not"
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 13, 2001).]
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-13-2001 12:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to this Joker;
"I am smart, I am capable and most importantly I am free all the ways that you are not"
Regardless of whether you are right the end of you post cheapens the whole thing. let adopt an adult atitude for the forum.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-13-2001 01:15 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You start calling names. What kind of attitude is that? And do you realize where that can lead to?
Your lucky I don't care and just let it slide.
"All the ways you wished you could be....that's me."
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-13-2001 04:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This explosive has some great advantages:
1. It is absolutely cheap and available for everyone who knows how to make it.
2. It is very easy to be made and takes very small time(I made 1kilo from acetone, hydrogen peroxide, sulphuric acid,ammonium nitrate and bronze paint for 2 days).
3. It is relatively powerful (I think 60-70% of TNT (depending of what the proportion between the ammonium nitrate and the acetone peroxide).
4. It is relatively safe, relatively insensitive to shock, friction(yes, FRICTION, I’ve rubbed it between 2 boards and it didn’t went off) and flame when the acetone peroxide is 9 to about 30%.
5. It is easily initiatable and always gives full detonations.
Hey Tyler… do you make your blasting caps with a microscope? Your bombs will be impossible to defuse, they will never find the detonator... What you talk is absolutely unusable for the practical work with homemade devices, I wish I had 50 kg HMX, boosters and a lot of blasting caps, but I haven’t SO I MAKE IT MYSELF! Yes, ANFO, have you ever made it? If yes you sure know that it is initiatable with homemade detonator(or N8 equivalent) only in STRONG confinement and low density. But if you make it, inclose it in a steel pipe and shake it for example, the density highers and it is absloutely impossible to achieve detonation….If you want to initiate the ANFO easily you need low density and 2-4%fuel oil. Low density means LOW power and LOW detonation velocity. The mixture with 20%acetone peroxide can be pressed to density as high as you can press it. The activated ammonium nitrate seems interesting.
I know that plastifed HMX for example is better than this improvised explosive, but I haven’t got HMX and I use this or urea nitrate for high quantities at that time (I make high explosive in such quantities from a year). Yes, this is dangerous! EVEN THE THOUGHT OF AN EXPOSION INTERFERES WITH FEAR SOMETIMES AS YOU KNOW.
I think I will be able to provide some photos in 2 weeks time…
Kroways
New Member
Posts: 19
From: Czech Republic
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-14-2001 03:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SimplyRED> TylerDurden is the only one wise person here. Because he don't need any injuries to find out that AP + almost everything is less safe than straight AP. For example it reacts with metals(Al is ideal), as DOES all the shit like organic peroxides. Why do you think AP and HMTD is not produced industrially, when HMTD is a quite powerful and cheap primary explosive? It is because of its dangerous instability. You can of course say, that you made several tests - you tried to hit it with hammer, you tried to rub it between two boards - how nice! But have you already tried to let it stand for a week and rub it then, when it is "full-grown"? I know, that it seems like I only want to make you angry and that I have a couple of inferiority complexes etc... But the reason why I write this is that I want you and others to stay whole. Many researches have been made and there is no need of trying these mixtures. It is known, that they are extremelz unsafe. The probability of an accident is of course not 50% or so.. but it is many times more than is a danger of ordinary high explosives. It is the reason why people invited blasting caps. It is because they are scared handling sensitive material. If you want to make lots of safe and powerful explosive, just show some effort and make some DNT(it can be prepared without need of fuming nitric acid). The mixture of 10% DNT, 5% Al and 85% NH4NO3(as you say AN) is much more powerful than ANFO(lead block test 430ccm) and is cap sensitive(I have tried 700mg of PETN and even 1g of lead azide alone). If you need more brisance, just make DNT rich mixture(30% DNT, 10% Al, 60% AN) and press it. You will need a stronger detonator(~10g PETN, haven't tried) but it will do the job. I know that obtaining PETN and RDX is tough and expensive, but you should consider it. Even if you use HMTD as a subsitute of safe primary explosive(please don't put it in the metal casing..) it will be always more safe than using mixtures like you describe..
I hope nobody will annoy me with my spelling mistakes.. I do not do them in my native language.
TylerDurden
Frequent Poster
Posts: 94
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 05-14-2001 05:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Simply RED, I am just warning you that it is dangerous, that's all. Now, it seems that AP mixed with AN is not readily set off by friction or shock, but I would not trust it.
And pressing the mixture in a steel pipe for higher density...some guys don't even dare to press 1 gram of AP in capsule to make a detonator and you're pressing a whole lot of AP/AN mixture in a steel pipe, you got nerves man.
Of course detonators are not made with a few milligrams of primary. That was done by scientist to figure out how much was needed to set secondary explosives off. And it's not much!
And of course I know the facts about ANFO. It's indeed necessary to make it capsensitive if you don't have a booster. But there are many ways to make it capsensitive. You can lower the density by powdering the prills (or use the special LDAN prills) and/or by adding sawdust, powdered styrofoam even instant coffee. And you could also use....water!
By the way, you could use ANNM as a booster.
Now, I don't want to spoil your idea, I just pointed out the (possible) dangers. I personally would sensitize the ANFO (or desensitize AP) with inert materials like styrofoam.
[This message has been edited by TylerDurden (edited May 14, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-14-2001 01:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of insane ideas here!
AN is fairly unsensitive, it is sensitised by Al powder and microspheres,...! And you want to mix this with CTAP???? Go ahead guys and disappear from the face of the earth!
CTAP is a primary explosive that a lot of you use as detonator!What I strongly disaprove...but you are master of your destiny!
Let me remind you why the hell in military explosives they separates always detonators from main secondary charges....for SAFETY reasons!Thus the detonator is inserted in the HE just before use...have you ever seen a HE being sold with detonator in it...of course no!
Now a little TRUE story of a great friend of mine...he ones played with CTAP/and AN mix (I don't know the proportion but it is not important here (I think it was 50/50 mix)); he was also hoping for a reduction of the sensitivity of CTAP in a way to secure CTAP and have more safety while handling it!So he had a pile of 30g mix next to him in his basement ready to be put in a container (THUS NOT CONFINED YET!!!) and working on something else....at one meter of him, the pile exploded/detonated for no apparent reason.
CONCLUSIONS:
-A hole of 10cm diameter in the basement concrete
-hear ringing/deaphness for 4 days
-all the neighbourghood knew about his passion and where looking at him severely everytime speaking about him when passing by
-police came to investigate due to phone calls
-Parents scared to death an not wanting him to experience anymore-NEVER!Nor to speak about related subjects!
-He was a lucky bastard not being hit by any schrapnels since the stuff was not confined in a solid container like he was planned to do; but also to be far enough or not holding the stuff when it went boom!
-Now when speaking about or being close to peroxydes even in little quantity he is scared!
Thus playing with 100g SANFO (sensitised ANFO) is 99.9999% safe!
Playing with 100g of CTAP is insane!
Playing with 10g CTAP is 80% safe if unconfined but 70% safe if confined!
Playing with 90g AN mixed with 10g CTAP is 75% safe!
This means that you have one chance on five to blow yourself with 10g pure and dry CTAP, but even more chance when it is confined (due to shrapnels that can cut your fingers even inside a PVC pipe...also knowing that the VOD increases with the strenght of the container thus unsafety goes from metal to breackable plastics,to glass, and to soft plastics).That safety decreases when you add to those 10g, 90g of AN since maybe it is less senitive than pure CTAP but it is stil a 100g charge of medium to HE!
The same applies to HMTD!!!!!
I hope you will not learn to follow our (us the wise guys) ideas because you will have made the same experience as my friend OR EVEN A WORST ONE!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 05-14-2001 05:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, Philou, I will trust you and stop playing permanently with this stuff! That’s right, it’s not as safe as TNT for example, but it was safe enough to experiment with 2 kg till now with absolutely no accident, the last 1kg bomb was made with 200grams acetone peroxide (I put it in 5 places before mixing). Now I have experience with average devices, I dream making 10kg of the next mixture: ammonium nitrate, smokeless powder and acetone as described in the nbk2000’s pdf. I’m gonna make it when I find the smokeless powder… My next ideas for homemade stuff are: perchlorates, nitrobenzene with ammonium nitrate(the mono and dinitrobenzene are available from my chem suplier but at a high cost, I won’t have the chance to experiment with this stuff soon), I will try nitrostarch soon. How sensitive will be the mix of urea nitrate, ammonium nitrate and bronze paint?
Oh, how could I forget……..AMMONIUM NITATE WITH RED PHOSPHOROUS,I CAN BUY 100GRAMS RED P AT NO COST…..
I’ve never made it but I know it is SUPER dangerous( AN +red P)(as I read in alt.engr.explosives). Such explosive is described in KIPE. Philou, have you got any info for this?
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-14-2001 05:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did NBK2000 release a new PDF
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-15-2001 08:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good idea; you may use CTAP but only as a detonator (thus placed at the end when in place to blast!)
A 2g detonator should be enough to set off 100g-1000g or 10kg of the mix you want to try
NC/AN/Al (+ NM for little kick and to make a kind of plastic).
Via a shop I also have nitrobenzene and dinitrobenzene (I have TNB but not from a seller); I aslo have nitrophenol, dinitrophenol and TNP!
That's expensive but worth having!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-15-2001 08:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah yes AN + nitroderivatives (mono, di or trinitrobenzene (or toluene) are more cap sensitive than straight AN!
AN + P should be OK; it could only burn fearcely when lighted...it will never be as critically sensitive than KClO3/S/P/C mix-Armstrong's mixes!It will need a powerful detonator (maybe slightly less than AN alone).
Urea nitrate/AN/Al should be OK since UN is more sensitive to shock than AN..this means a better cap sensitivity for an equal power!
UN is usually more powerful than AN!!!It has a higher VOD: 4200m/s vs 3300m/s!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 05-31-2001 01:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I at last had time to try this mix...
I made about 150grams of it. Put into small plastic bottle. Detonator was ~1cm high, ~3cm diameter bottle (film canister.. i cut it lower) full of pure AP.
i went into woods.... where was old BMW frame. charge was put into door. door was open. I ignited it and ran about 20m far and took cover. BOOOOMM!!!!! holy shit ... i never thought it'd be that powerful... i went to see what happened. and guess what ? whole door was gone!
uh... i read what philou said...
i made it like this 115gAN + 10g AP + 4ml styrofoam + Al paint. And i tried to light smaller amounts of it.... it didn't do anything... only popped. I think one possible thing that may make it unstable is that when AP is not pure of acid, the acid might react with Al?
[This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited May 31, 2001).]
eNt0n
New Member
Posts: 19
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 05-31-2001 01:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a short question:
Is this mixture (AN+AP+Al) powerful enough to set of ANFO??
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-05-2001 01:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tested few days ago again this stuff... it was mix what was left from my test on car door. mix + a bit pure AP(to boost) was put into tube (27mm diameter, 45mm height).
I pressed it into soil, next to narrow tree or bush (diameter about 35mm). fired fuse. boom ... this small tree was cut right where explosive was.
I think that when mixing very small amount dry PH7 AP (maybe <9%) with this mix of AN+Al+styrofoam+naphta _right_before_ using it is rather safe.
but i plan to test same mix without AP i'll give test results.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-05-2001 07:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made again a small bomb containing 70 grams of this stuff . The detonator was a machbox full half of AP, fuse ignited. It was nice...
What do you mean with this: "It was mix what was left from the car door test". Some explosive you make then and left it to store or something else?
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-05-2001 03:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry... my english isnt the best... i meant that i made a bit bigger amount of it than i blew up at the first time.
Ok... i tell you little secret me and my frinds wanna try 1kg of it. (using less ap in mix and therefore bigger detonator ... should be safer i guess).
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 02:33 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.... i exploded this mixture:
900g AN
70g AP
12g AL
4g diesel fuel
36ml styrofoam
detonator ~10g AP (trigered by old clock which lighted small light bulb)
we were ~200-300m far away when it blew... as a surprise sound wasn't very loud. but damage it did was nice we had put it under solid concrete block (4m x 1.5m x 20cm) (it had holes in it along side ... um.. i mean like cylinders 4m long inside it).... after explosion there was hole in the middle ~1m wide and it had a lot of cracks in it... but surprise was that ~1 m far of it was another same type block... it was moved ~1m further and was broken into 2 pieces (also had smaller cracks)
anyway... soon i'll post pictures
ok
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-08-2001 05:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My device was the same, only the peroxide was 20%, the booster was about 70 grams and I used 2 detonators, one electric. It will be good to take photos,I have shot only one electric detonator at that time
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 228
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 07:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out http://donuttyfiles.50megs.com/main.htm
A video of ALAPAN (Aluminium / Tricycloacetoneperoxide / Ammonium Nitrate) in 5:55:40 mix.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-10-2001 07:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've just mixed up 100g of Tovex, and I'll be detonating it next time I go to my friend's field.
I think the method I used came from ALENGOSVIG1's site. It is 55 grams of AN, 20 grams of Al, 10 grams of KNO3, 2.5 grams of starch, 2.5 grams of gelatine, 1 gram of potassium dichromate, a pinch of urea, and just enough water to dissolve the AN at 100*C (about 10 mL).
I'll post results here.
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-10-2001 08:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO it rather burns , than detonates... only detonateable ingredient is AN and so small part of all the mixture.
For next time I make something like this, I'll invent a digital counter with leds. Basic... based on 555 timer and 4022 johnson counter. If anyone interested of schematics, feel free to ask (i first of course test it hard)
[This message has been edited by Chainsaw (edited June 10, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-10-2001 09:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're talking about Tovex, I think it will detonate but it will need a powerful detonator, maybe even a booster. It's fairly similar to some blasting explosives for use in mines and quarries, e.g. slurry explosives and aqueous gels.
It appears to have lots of tiny gas bubbles in it (maybe some of the Al reacting with the water, speeded up by the slightly acid AN solution?), which should increase sensitivity.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 411
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-10-2001 10:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited October 26, 2001).]
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-10-2001 11:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you have that book?
Contact me
agent_blak@yahoo.com
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-11-2001 03:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i will be trying a few different mixes soon. i just have to find the time to set them off. I will be attampting to set off some Improvised calonite. Instead of using ammonium nitrate ill try calcium nitrate. i dont have any Aluminum powder right now unfortionately. so im going to try CN/AP/FO, CN/AP/Napthalene or charcoal. ill attaempt some CN/picric acid too. i Have no idea if ANY of these will work. well see in time.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 03:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chainsaw, you would be very kind to send me the shemes you are refering to at LOUIS.PH@USA.net!
I have also planned to do an ultrafast chronometer or someting like that to have a tangible estimation of the VOD of HE and LE!
Ideally for a 50cm pipe we would need a chronometer that can mesure time as little as 0.50m*1/15000 s/m= 3.333 *10exp-5s= 0.00003333sec = 33.33 microseconds!
So the best would be a microsecond counter!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-12-2001 09:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just detonated some CN/AP/acetone. i used about 80 grams CN, 12 grams ap, and about 7 grams acetone. worked great! full detonation from 2 grams of ap in a rifle shell.
------------------
How much power will you lose if you do not know what they already know?
Explosives Archive
Chainsaw
New Member
Posts: 34
From: Estonia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-25-2001 12:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok... i detonated: about 2,3kg of anfo+Al , 0,7kg of this mix(contained 40g of ap) with 10grams of AP. Under old car wreck that was on top of the pile of rocks (in the centre of big field). Detonated nicely i think... at least car was almost blown in half... it flew about 10 meters high and landed 10 meters far from original location (i made some pics. i have to scan them)