megalomania
June 17th, 2003, 08:09 PM
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-03-2001 12:14 PM
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I put 1 gram of sorbitol in a 100 mL beaker, and added 10 grams of NH4NO3. I put this beaker, and a beaker containing 20 mL of 92% H2SO4, into a bath of H2O/NH4NO3/NH4Cl to cool it down to about -10*C. When it was all very cold, I used a pipette to drop the H2SO4 into the sorbitol/NH4NO3 slowly, so that the temp. didn't rise above 0*C. I did this gradually while stirring constantly with a glass rod. Almost everything seemed to dissolve after all the acid had been added, leaving a cloudy solution and a few blobs of sorbitol that hadn't dissolved, and instead had just turned all sticky. I made most of them dissolve, but then got impatient and stopped bothering. When everything had dissolved (solution was still cloudy, and a little bit syrupy), I took the beaker out of the freezing mixture, and put it into a bath of cold water so it could warm up slightly (it had been at about -12*C for most of the time), and I left it there for about 10 minutes to react, at about 5*C. No change in appearance occured.
I then poured the liquid into 300 mL of water with a bit of crushed ice in it, and NOTHING HAPPENED! NO PRECIPITATE!
I think it must have been due to the fact that my H2SO4 was only 92%, so next time I'll boil it down, but I would have expected at least some nitrosorbitol to have formed.
My NH4NO3 was nearly anhydrous.
Any other ideas about what was wrong?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-03-2001 09:07 PM
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Well, i think it was the H2SO4. You say that it was a cloudy solution after the addition on the H2SO4. I think that the solution should be yellow - orange becuase of the impure nitric being formed. I am trying to nitrate right now. Ill tell you how it goes.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-04-2001 01:52 AM
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OK, i puored the syrupy mess into around 350 ml of water and white flakes started to cellect ontop of the water. Next thing i know, theres a solid blob of some white material. its like play-doh. verly plastic like. Im not sure what this is. Ill attempt to detonate some soon.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-04-2001 10:19 AM
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try the hammer test!!
...Aw come on the hammer test.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-04-2001 01:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you're right. In the bottom of the beaker there was a small blob, slightly yellow, that didn't dissolve. It had the consistency of very hot molten glass, soft and sticky. I stuck it to my glass rod to lift it out, and put a bit on a flat brick. I hit it fairly hard with a hammer, but there was no detonation. I then lit a bit with a match. It didn't detonate, but it definately wasn't still sorbitol. It deflagrated rapidly, with a very pale blue flame and a bit of a "fizz" noise.
And yes, the solution was cloudy but slightly yellow after the addition of the H2SO4.
I'll try again with 98% H2SO4 soon and post my results.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-04-2001 01:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, a small blob of it (maybe 3mm cubed) was not detonated by two of the little bits of primary from christmas crackers (lead azide, or maybe silver fulminate). I used these because they detonate directly from flame even in these tiny amounts, whereas HMTD etc would deflagrate and I couldn't use a bigger charge as the effect of the blob exploding would not be noticable.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-05-2001 05:47 AM
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ALENGOSVIG1: Any results yet? Have you managed to detonate it?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-05-2001 11:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I havent managed to detonate it via shock or deflagerate it via flame. its a very plastic material still. its like old gun. ill mix up some primary and attempt to detonate it this week.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-05-2001 12:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yours doesn't burn? Strange, I don't think mine had enough HNO3/NH4NO3 impurities to make it burn as well as it did!
How much did you get about?
Well, let me know when you try to detonate it with a primary.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-03-2001 12:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I put 1 gram of sorbitol in a 100 mL beaker, and added 10 grams of NH4NO3. I put this beaker, and a beaker containing 20 mL of 92% H2SO4, into a bath of H2O/NH4NO3/NH4Cl to cool it down to about -10*C. When it was all very cold, I used a pipette to drop the H2SO4 into the sorbitol/NH4NO3 slowly, so that the temp. didn't rise above 0*C. I did this gradually while stirring constantly with a glass rod. Almost everything seemed to dissolve after all the acid had been added, leaving a cloudy solution and a few blobs of sorbitol that hadn't dissolved, and instead had just turned all sticky. I made most of them dissolve, but then got impatient and stopped bothering. When everything had dissolved (solution was still cloudy, and a little bit syrupy), I took the beaker out of the freezing mixture, and put it into a bath of cold water so it could warm up slightly (it had been at about -12*C for most of the time), and I left it there for about 10 minutes to react, at about 5*C. No change in appearance occured.
I then poured the liquid into 300 mL of water with a bit of crushed ice in it, and NOTHING HAPPENED! NO PRECIPITATE!
I think it must have been due to the fact that my H2SO4 was only 92%, so next time I'll boil it down, but I would have expected at least some nitrosorbitol to have formed.
My NH4NO3 was nearly anhydrous.
Any other ideas about what was wrong?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-03-2001 09:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, i think it was the H2SO4. You say that it was a cloudy solution after the addition on the H2SO4. I think that the solution should be yellow - orange becuase of the impure nitric being formed. I am trying to nitrate right now. Ill tell you how it goes.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-04-2001 01:52 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, i puored the syrupy mess into around 350 ml of water and white flakes started to cellect ontop of the water. Next thing i know, theres a solid blob of some white material. its like play-doh. verly plastic like. Im not sure what this is. Ill attempt to detonate some soon.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
Agent Blak
Frequent Poster
Posts: 766
From: Sk. Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-04-2001 10:19 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
try the hammer test!!
...Aw come on the hammer test.
------------------
A wise man once said:
"...There Will Be No
Stand Off At High Noon
... Shoot'em In The Back
And, Shoot'em In The Dark"
Agent Blak-------OUT!!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-04-2001 01:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you're right. In the bottom of the beaker there was a small blob, slightly yellow, that didn't dissolve. It had the consistency of very hot molten glass, soft and sticky. I stuck it to my glass rod to lift it out, and put a bit on a flat brick. I hit it fairly hard with a hammer, but there was no detonation. I then lit a bit with a match. It didn't detonate, but it definately wasn't still sorbitol. It deflagrated rapidly, with a very pale blue flame and a bit of a "fizz" noise.
And yes, the solution was cloudy but slightly yellow after the addition of the H2SO4.
I'll try again with 98% H2SO4 soon and post my results.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-04-2001 01:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, a small blob of it (maybe 3mm cubed) was not detonated by two of the little bits of primary from christmas crackers (lead azide, or maybe silver fulminate). I used these because they detonate directly from flame even in these tiny amounts, whereas HMTD etc would deflagrate and I couldn't use a bigger charge as the effect of the blob exploding would not be noticable.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-05-2001 05:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALENGOSVIG1: Any results yet? Have you managed to detonate it?
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-05-2001 11:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I havent managed to detonate it via shock or deflagerate it via flame. its a very plastic material still. its like old gun. ill mix up some primary and attempt to detonate it this week.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-05-2001 12:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yours doesn't burn? Strange, I don't think mine had enough HNO3/NH4NO3 impurities to make it burn as well as it did!
How much did you get about?
Well, let me know when you try to detonate it with a primary.