megalomania
June 17th, 2003, 08:11 PM
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-04-2001 04:16 PM
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I was planning on doing some experiments with nitroglycerin. Iv done a search of the net for all the date I need. but I was wondering if any of you guys did anything with nitro.
gcic
Frequent Poster
Posts: 80
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-04-2001 05:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have produced nitroglycerine, but I wouldn`t do it anymore. PETN or MHN are better/safer substances if you ask me. And solid explosives are easier to handle, too.
I think, it is a difficult story to separate the NG from the water. And it musn`t have any acid in the end, otherwise I wouldn`t guarantee an adequate stability.
Well, but when you finally have your explosive oil, it will satisfy you with much power :-)
But as I said, it isn`t worth the higher risk in comparison with PETN.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-04-2001 05:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is this your first nitration? I would not recomend NG as a first one , although if it goes wrong it could be your last. tell me, what is the concenteration of your acid, what glassware do you have? any other chems you could nitrate? there are simpler things like NC, it is a bit safer and as long as you wash it and dont grind it it is relitivly safe,
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-04-2001 06:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive made nitro quite a few times and i have not had any problems. As pyro500 said, you should probally find some other things to nitrate before you try ng. Try NC. Its not impressive really but it will give you a bit of experience with nitrations. Although, even if the nitration runs away there isn't that much of a chance of it detonationg. Almost impossible unless you are making a massive batch. An as gcic said, ther must not be any acid in it. It must be washed extremely well! not just with water either. It is very sensitive when unwashed. it is quite easy to detonate some unwashed ng with a hammer but very well washed stuff is quite hard to set off. If do do make some, make some dynamite instead of leaving the ng pure.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-05-2001 03:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I'm going to do NC instead of nitro. Sense this is my first nitration.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-05-2001 04:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NC or NS (starch) are much easier, and more tolerant of impurities etc. NC is also good because when highly nitrated you can ignite it to make a very nice burst of flame, as well as detonate it. Most HE's burn rather boringly.
TNP is also rather easy.
HNIW
Frequent Poster
Posts: 46
From: Poland
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-07-2001 04:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitroglycerine cannot be compared with NC. At firs NC is a propellant and it is never used as high explosives. If you want to get high explosive you have to mix it with for example nitroglycerine or nitromethanol. Of course if you want to put it in a steel pipe there would be a loud detonation. Normal explosives detonate and make a lot of noise in plastic bags. I thing that NC is only useful for guns, cannons and sometimes for plastic explosives. Finally if you want to make nitroglycerine you need HN03 ~98% , for NC 50% is good enough.
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 158
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 06-07-2001 07:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a note,NG,NC,MHN,TNP don't require 98% HNO3.They all can be nitrated using 98% H2SO4 and a nitrate,eg,AN,kno3.
Demolition
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-07-2001 03:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HNIW: pure NC can detonate, with as little containment as any other high explosive when set off with a detonator. VoD is around 7000 m/s depending on density and nitrogen content, and it's about 30% more powerful than TNT.
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-07-2001 05:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made about 6 grams of NC. I detonated it with 1 gram of AP in a steel pipe. It made a much bigger explosion than I expected. It made a crater about 1 foot deep 1 foot wide.
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-07-2001 05:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 grams of NC made a crater 1 foot deep? what the fuck? i had a matchbox of AP make a foot wide crater but only about 2cm deep.
did you place the charge under the ground?
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-07-2001 08:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it was in a hole about 8 inches deep.
Morrigan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: The Netherlands
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-08-2001 03:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since nitroglycerine is so damn hard to separate from the acid mix I was wandering wether a seperatory funnel could be used to separate the 2 layers. It would also come in handy during washing. Could the friction of the tap be enough to detonate the NG? And is it to sensitive to shake during the washing with the bicarbonate? Anybody any experience with this way of separation?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 09:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NG is quite insensitive to friction much more sensitive to impact!With CTAP it is the contrary friction>impact!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 01:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How is the NG hard to seperate? Mine forms a blob on the bottom of the beaker and I transfer it from beaker to beaker with a pipette.
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 02:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did you manage to separate all or most of them?
I start getting bored of NG since the separation is so inefficient,....try piptte, eyedropper even syringe....still don't get satisfactory enough
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 06-08-2001 05:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive made NG 5 or so times (in a dream of course) and seperated the NG/acid mix with a seperatory funnel every time with no problem. Pure well washed NG is not extremely sensitive, you can shake it lightly or bang it lightly (do NOT shake or bang it under any circumstances even so, though).
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 06:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did loose quite a large percentage of the yeild but I was only working with a few ml. I don't see how seperation is difficult or inefficient it's just a blob of oil on the bottom of clear liquid. Inefficiency comes from the NG that remains on the tool used to transfer the NG (that then has to be washed before it can be used again).
a_bab
Frequent Poster
Posts: 44
From: doesn't matter
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-09-2001 07:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I usually decant the NG as much as possible, wich is pretty hard because it's viscosity is close to water's v.; after that, it still remains a layer of water about 3 mm or so, but this water is very easy removable with toilet paper (no joking !), but you have to pay lots of attention, not to absorbe the NG. I use this method with success. In fact, the toilet paper dampened with NG is very good for a booster to set off ANFO, but you need for this about 10 ml of NG (obtainable from 10 ml of glycerin, 20 ml of nitric acid and 50-60 ml of sulfuric acid)
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-04-2001 04:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was planning on doing some experiments with nitroglycerin. Iv done a search of the net for all the date I need. but I was wondering if any of you guys did anything with nitro.
gcic
Frequent Poster
Posts: 80
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-04-2001 05:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have produced nitroglycerine, but I wouldn`t do it anymore. PETN or MHN are better/safer substances if you ask me. And solid explosives are easier to handle, too.
I think, it is a difficult story to separate the NG from the water. And it musn`t have any acid in the end, otherwise I wouldn`t guarantee an adequate stability.
Well, but when you finally have your explosive oil, it will satisfy you with much power :-)
But as I said, it isn`t worth the higher risk in comparison with PETN.
PYRO500
Moderator
Posts: 1465
From: somewhere in florida
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-04-2001 05:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is this your first nitration? I would not recomend NG as a first one , although if it goes wrong it could be your last. tell me, what is the concenteration of your acid, what glassware do you have? any other chems you could nitrate? there are simpler things like NC, it is a bit safer and as long as you wash it and dont grind it it is relitivly safe,
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-04-2001 06:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive made nitro quite a few times and i have not had any problems. As pyro500 said, you should probally find some other things to nitrate before you try ng. Try NC. Its not impressive really but it will give you a bit of experience with nitrations. Although, even if the nitration runs away there isn't that much of a chance of it detonationg. Almost impossible unless you are making a massive batch. An as gcic said, ther must not be any acid in it. It must be washed extremely well! not just with water either. It is very sensitive when unwashed. it is quite easy to detonate some unwashed ng with a hammer but very well washed stuff is quite hard to set off. If do do make some, make some dynamite instead of leaving the ng pure.
------------------
technology is a wonderful servant, but a bitch of a master.
Explosives Archive
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-05-2001 03:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I'm going to do NC instead of nitro. Sense this is my first nitration.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-05-2001 04:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NC or NS (starch) are much easier, and more tolerant of impurities etc. NC is also good because when highly nitrated you can ignite it to make a very nice burst of flame, as well as detonate it. Most HE's burn rather boringly.
TNP is also rather easy.
HNIW
Frequent Poster
Posts: 46
From: Poland
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-07-2001 04:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitroglycerine cannot be compared with NC. At firs NC is a propellant and it is never used as high explosives. If you want to get high explosive you have to mix it with for example nitroglycerine or nitromethanol. Of course if you want to put it in a steel pipe there would be a loud detonation. Normal explosives detonate and make a lot of noise in plastic bags. I thing that NC is only useful for guns, cannons and sometimes for plastic explosives. Finally if you want to make nitroglycerine you need HN03 ~98% , for NC 50% is good enough.
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 158
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 06-07-2001 07:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a note,NG,NC,MHN,TNP don't require 98% HNO3.They all can be nitrated using 98% H2SO4 and a nitrate,eg,AN,kno3.
Demolition
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-07-2001 03:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HNIW: pure NC can detonate, with as little containment as any other high explosive when set off with a detonator. VoD is around 7000 m/s depending on density and nitrogen content, and it's about 30% more powerful than TNT.
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-07-2001 05:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I made about 6 grams of NC. I detonated it with 1 gram of AP in a steel pipe. It made a much bigger explosion than I expected. It made a crater about 1 foot deep 1 foot wide.
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-07-2001 05:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 grams of NC made a crater 1 foot deep? what the fuck? i had a matchbox of AP make a foot wide crater but only about 2cm deep.
did you place the charge under the ground?
bombman
New Member
Posts: 25
From: u.s.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-07-2001 08:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it was in a hole about 8 inches deep.
Morrigan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: The Netherlands
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-08-2001 03:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since nitroglycerine is so damn hard to separate from the acid mix I was wandering wether a seperatory funnel could be used to separate the 2 layers. It would also come in handy during washing. Could the friction of the tap be enough to detonate the NG? And is it to sensitive to shake during the washing with the bicarbonate? Anybody any experience with this way of separation?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 09:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NG is quite insensitive to friction much more sensitive to impact!With CTAP it is the contrary friction>impact!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 01:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How is the NG hard to seperate? Mine forms a blob on the bottom of the beaker and I transfer it from beaker to beaker with a pipette.
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 02:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
did you manage to separate all or most of them?
I start getting bored of NG since the separation is so inefficient,....try piptte, eyedropper even syringe....still don't get satisfactory enough
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 06-08-2001 05:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ive made NG 5 or so times (in a dream of course) and seperated the NG/acid mix with a seperatory funnel every time with no problem. Pure well washed NG is not extremely sensitive, you can shake it lightly or bang it lightly (do NOT shake or bang it under any circumstances even so, though).
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-08-2001 06:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did loose quite a large percentage of the yeild but I was only working with a few ml. I don't see how seperation is difficult or inefficient it's just a blob of oil on the bottom of clear liquid. Inefficiency comes from the NG that remains on the tool used to transfer the NG (that then has to be washed before it can be used again).
a_bab
Frequent Poster
Posts: 44
From: doesn't matter
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-09-2001 07:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I usually decant the NG as much as possible, wich is pretty hard because it's viscosity is close to water's v.; after that, it still remains a layer of water about 3 mm or so, but this water is very easy removable with toilet paper (no joking !), but you have to pay lots of attention, not to absorbe the NG. I use this method with success. In fact, the toilet paper dampened with NG is very good for a booster to set off ANFO, but you need for this about 10 ml of NG (obtainable from 10 ml of glycerin, 20 ml of nitric acid and 50-60 ml of sulfuric acid)