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megalomania
June 17th, 2003, 08:14 PM
cutefix
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Posts: 325
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-11-2001 11:35 PM
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There is a two component explosive listed in U.S.Patent 4,042,431 that looks like a modification of astrolite but looks a bit easier to prepare because there is no need for anhydrous hydrazine.(the liquid mix contain a blend of hydrazine, water,methanol,and ammonium nitrate.If its possible to make hydrazine from the kitchen out of bleach and ammonia (NBK hydrazine sulfate topic) .then obtain hydrazine hydroxide by addition of a suitable alkali.The explosive formula states ;
Solid component- 91.5%
Ammonium nitrate- 89.9%
Ammoniumperchlorate-10%
Inert-(stabilizer)- .1%
Liquid component 8.5%
Hydrazine(N2H4) 43.48%
Water (H20) 25.22%
Methanol(CH3OH) 18.26%
Ammonium Nitrate 13.04%

This formula has lower amount of hydrazine but needs ammonium perchlorate which is hard to obtain commercially.Is there anybody who had prepared ammonium perchlorate from sodium or potassium perchlorate?
Instead of anhydrous hydrazine and water in the liquid component why not hydrazine hydroxide which is easier to find or manufacture from common ingredients.Is there any analysis data about the total hydrazine in hydrazine hydroxide so that we can make suitable calculations about replacements?Is there any data also about explosive properties of this mixture?




PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 04:23 AM
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Volumetric study:
*dilute NH2-NH2
*add dilluted KMnO4
mesure the quantity of N2 generated!

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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 04:27 AM
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gravimetry:
aceton + hydrazine makes an unsoluble hydrazone
(CH3)2C=O + NH2-NH2 --> (CH3)2C=N-NH2
from what by the way it can be purified or extracted selectively!
(CH3)2C=N-NH2 + HCl + H2O --> (CH3)C=O + NH2-NH3Cl

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



cutefix
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Posts: 325
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-12-2001 06:22 AM
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Philou what will be the quantity of hydrazine in hydrazine hydroxide that will result in this analysis?


PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 07:00 AM
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I thought you asked for a way to know the hydrazine contain of a solution of Hydrazine (hydrazine hydroxyde)!
Usually it is written on the label:
ex: 80% hydrazinium hydroxyd solution!
Thus this means 80g/100g of NH2-NH3OH and 20g water!
Knowing NH2-NH3OH to contain 1 mole H2O per mole NH2-NH2 (a very little % of dihydroxyde HO-NH3-NH3-OH) thus 18g water/32g hydrazine!
In 100g NH2-NH3-OH 80% solution you thus have 20g water + 45g water (18/32*80)+ 35g NH2-NH2((32-18)/32*80).
Obviously thus 65% water and only 35% NH2-NH2 (about as concentrate as the NH3 conc solution)!!!!
"Pure NH2-NH3OH" would then be 57% water and 43% hydrazine !

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



cutefix
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Posts: 325
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-12-2001 07:29 AM
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therefore the amount of hydrazine on the hydrazine hydroxide is within range for the patent formula(about 65% and the remainder is water.If I have to make hydrazinium hydroxide from hydrazine sulfate by displacing it with calcium hydroxide to form calcium sulfate which is water insoluble and the hydrazine hydroxide will remain in solution which would be suitable for explosive preparation in the patent.Then I will just have to add the hydrazine hydroxide to the remaining liquid mixture of methanol and ammonium nitrate,before it is incorporated to the solid mix then presto,I have a powerful explosive maybe stronger than ANNM Explosive that is detonable by ordinary blasting cap,what do you think philou?


PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 07:59 AM
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Yes it would work!wash wel your precipitate of CaSO4 with your methanol to extract maximum Hydrazinium hydroxyde!
You can also mix the dry H. sulfate with solid NaOH and heat gently in a closed apparatuse with a cooling flask to collect nearly pure NH2-NH2 aside with a little water (less than 57%)!
Hydrazine is glass corrosive and sensitive to metals, metal cations, oxydisers, heat!
Enjoy!
If I were you I would imediately transform it to H.nitrate!

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



cutefix
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Posts: 325
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-12-2001 08:19 AM
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Well thanks for the info philou however hydrazine nitrate is unitary explosive so I think its dangerous to handle it alone than the binary mixture that I can mix two inert material as the explosive is needed thereby insuring safety.I was also thinking of replacing the ammonium perchlorate by potassium or sodium perchlorate however alkali metals form unstable hydrazine salts(K or NaN2H3).The beauty of this Patent formula is that it is safer to blend than ordinary astrolite where foaming is strong;here that frothing is reduced to a minimum as claimed by the patent.I think I will like this explosive more than the well known ANNM Binary Mix.


PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 10:31 AM
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NH4ClO4 is an explosive (and a detonating one more sensitive and powerful than NH4NO3) while Na and K perchlorate are not!
You will never have Na and K hydrazidures in that media..IMPOSSIBLE-NEVER-NO-no-no!
HN is about as safe to handle as NH4ClO4 or TNT! So I don't see your point here!

ANNM is for sure much less expensive!


------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



cutefix
Frequent Poster
Posts: 325
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-13-2001 02:23 AM
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To my knowledge ;
Hydrazine nitrate is an explosive itself,while ammonium perchlorate is a powerful oxidant(more reactive than ammonium nitrate).An oxidant like ammonium perchlorate is safe if not extensively heated or contaminated with organic materials.Hydrazine Nitrate has an estimated VOD of 8600+m/s.Ammonium perchlorate does not have a listed detonation velocity because it is classified as an oxidant.Hydrazine nitrate is one of the products when ammonium nitrate and hydrazine is combined(i.e the primary active component of astrolite formation).
Knowing that HN is a unitary explosive, and AP(ammonium perchlorate) is an oxidant,I will feel more at ease handling the latter than the former.Just think of the difference in care in commercial way of transporting and storing explosives than oxidants.Therefore in the binary mixture like mentioned in our discussion;It is composed of an oxidant blend(about 45%AN,5%AP) and the liquid fuel blend(Hydrazine 22%,water13%,Methanol 9%AN 6%).As you will notice a little amount of AN is added in the fuel mix in order to minimize foaming during the final blending of the liquid and solid ingredients.
Regarding metal hydrazides,which are formed when the particular metal comes in contact with hydrazine;these materials are pyrophoric in air((or maybe in the presence of oxygen such as in the reaction mixture that evolve with the blending of solid oxidant mix and the liquid fuel mix)so as an additional precaution its better to keep away from sodium and other alkali metal perchlorates.just think that there is water and methanol in the mixture(there will be some kind of ionization that may favors the formation of unwanted and dangerous side reaction).
I don’t particularly like ANNM,from my experience it does not reliably detonate with a common blasting cap(it is best used with a booster for optimum performance).Its performance also is inferior to astrolite type explosives.The knowledge that we can create astrolite type explosives without the use of the highly reactive and difficult to obtain anhydrous hydrazine is interesting.Anyway there is nothing more to learn with nitromethane/ammonium nitrate explosive;it is very popular and not challenging from the chemist viewpoint.



PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-13-2001 09:13 AM
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NH4ClO4 is more explosive than NH4NO3 and more sensitive about 10-8Nm (TNT is 7Nm so does hydrazine nitrate)!
To give you an orther of idea: 9.81Nm is the energy released by a 1kg block falling from 1 meter!
1Nm= 100g from 1 meter = 1kg from 10cm = 10g from 10 meters = 10kg from 1 cm!!!
VOD of NH4ClO4 is arround 4.5km/s while VOD of NH4NO3 is arround 3.3km/s!
Learn this:
NH2-NH3-ClO4 is way much sensitive than NH2-NH3-NO3 (same as their brothers AN and AP)(arround 1Nm (NG is 0.2Nm)) but has a lower VOD (stil arround 7km/s)!

NH2-NH3OH + NH4NO3 < == > NH3(g) + H2O + NH2-NH3NO3
and
NH2-NH3OH + NH4ClO4 < == > NH3(g) + H2O + NH2-NH3ClO4
NH2-NH2 is a weaker base than NH3 but NH3 is more volatile and thus is drived out of the raction (same reaction when anhydrous NH2-NH2 is mixed with NH4NO3 in astrolite... gaseous fumes of NH3 evolve leaving the HN!).
So your "safe" mix is actually as safe as a mix of hydrazine perchlorate/hydrazine nitrate/ammonium perchlorate/ammonium nitrate; from which the more sensitive is the hydrazine perchlorate!!!

I have played with both HN and HP and they both burn well in the open when light, but HP when the heat is strong enough starts to melt and then detonates readily and powerfully (I'm sure its TfDtD is more efficient than HN what simply burn like RDX).

------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"



cutefix
Frequent Poster
Posts: 325
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-13-2001 09:55 PM
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I am not concerned much about hydrazine perchlorate because the amount in the mixture would definitely be less than hydrazine nitrate. The creator of that binary mix added ammonium perchlorate to improve initiation sensitivity due to the formation of the sensitive hydrazine perchlorate.They also admonished that it should not exceed a certain level as stated in the patent because it will result in a highly sensitive mixture( it will not be safe anymore to use as a blasting explosive).I don’t believe all the speculations that ammonium nitrate and perchlorate should be labeled as an explosive;its manufacturerand military wouldsurely argue with you about this matter.In extreme case it will be as what happened in Texas explosion in 1947.If you will examine that fact you will realize that the conditions favor detonation due to possible contamination of AN with hydrocarbons and other organic matter and heated.There was also an accident with ammonium perchlorate in Utah in 1997 check this out; http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/1997/july-31-thu-1997/news/5809841.html Again I remind that AP is more reactive than AN ;so any explosive formulator knows about it.That’s why its not widely used.The only military explosive I know that use this is the Navy underwater explosive-PBXN-103 basically an aluminized HE composed of:
Ammonium perchlorate 40 %
Aluminum 27 %
Trimethyloethanetrinitrate(TMETN)23 %
Triethyleneglycoldinitrate(TEGDN)2.5 %
Plastisol nitrocellulose 6 %
Ethyl centralite 1.3 %
Resorcinol 0.2 %
The primary use of AP is for rocket propellants.
Also that binary explosive we have been talking about will remain safe an as long as they are not combined during storage and handling(similar with your ANNM;you don’t combine AN and NM if you want to store it safely isn’t it?).
The military have done extensive explosive testing with both AN and AP and they still consider it as Oxidants not explosives.