megalomania
June 17th, 2003, 08:23 PM
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-20-2001 10:02 PM
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Can you use stronium nitrate instead of potasium nitrate in the making of pircic acid? If so, can you use stronium nitrate in the synthesis of DDNPP?
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 06-21-2001 01:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you can, but it would perform pretty poorly. If memory serves Strontium has an atomic weight of 87 point something as opposed to sodium's 23 and potassium's 39 point something, so you would have to calculate the amount of NO3 ions youd need for your nitration. I tried to make Nitric acid with barium nitrate once and the yield was terrible. The amount i had to do add was a lot more than the volume of the H2SO4 so it was like a gooey mess. Also, if your going to use the strontium nitrate from road flares it would not work, because there are fuel additives that would just be nitrated when acid formed (probably not even enough to form an explosive but enough to dilute your acid so nothing else could be nitrated). Ive never made DDNP but since picric acid is a relatively easy explosive to make its worth a try, do it in a small amount first.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-21-2001 09:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But remember that strontium is bivalent!
So per AMU of strontium in strontium nitrate, there is only slightly less NO3- than per AMU of potassium in potassium nitate! (AMU = atomic mass unit).
Picric acid synthesis and yields are on my website, and DDNP will be up as soon as I get some more KNO2. I made some, but tried using it to make R-salt, which didn't work. And I had to sacrifice a flask to make it, since the cooling KNO2 crystals stuck to the glass and pulled it inwards as they contracted
So I'll try and buy some. I'll also be putting up the first of the pictures on my website this weekend hopefully.
The URL, if you're interested, is www.flashbangboom.homestead.com/home_page.html
There's not much there at the moment, but I'll be adding lots to it so check back every week or so.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-21-2001 10:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DON'T DO THIS!!!!!
On a theorical level yes Ok
nitrates + H2SO4 --> HNO3 + Sulfates
But here you are talking about picric acid...
-First you will have a lot of SrSO4 precipitate in the media that will reduce the heat transfer from your cooler bath!
-Secondly the excess Sr(2+) ions in the media will make the sensitive salt of picric acid...Sr picrate (friction, shock and heat sensitive primary)....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-21-2001 01:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this go for KNO3 too? If I understand correctly, there will be Potassium Picrate being formed. What about NaNO3?
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-21-2001 02:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm confused. Will it work? If not, where can I get potasium nitrate or sodium nitrate?
Dhzugasvili
Frequent Poster
Posts: 64
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 06-21-2001 05:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have always made my Picric Acid with Phenol, nitric acid, and sulfuric acid. have never had any problems. This is a great explosive as long as you're NOT STUPID and treat it right. All of them are pretty easy chemicals to acquire. If you're talking about Kno3 and Nano3 they are even easier. If you want to make them you have to have access to potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide and neutralize the solution until you get a salt ...basic chemistry. As for the production of picrate salts, i am sure there is a way of dissolving them and not the picric...
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-22-2001 10:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK for NaNO3 and KNO3 or NH4NO3 but don't try other nitrates if you want to live.....
If not then I recommand to try Pb(NO3)2 + H2SO4 and phenol ....most likely boom.
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-22-2001 02:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have used Calcium NItrate in nitrations before
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-22-2001 04:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use Pb(NO3)2 and H2SO4 for the nitrations(actually only for nitrocellulose). It works great, now I'm looking at a pile of raw NC which I made before some hours .
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-20-2001 10:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you use stronium nitrate instead of potasium nitrate in the making of pircic acid? If so, can you use stronium nitrate in the synthesis of DDNPP?
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 06-21-2001 01:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you can, but it would perform pretty poorly. If memory serves Strontium has an atomic weight of 87 point something as opposed to sodium's 23 and potassium's 39 point something, so you would have to calculate the amount of NO3 ions youd need for your nitration. I tried to make Nitric acid with barium nitrate once and the yield was terrible. The amount i had to do add was a lot more than the volume of the H2SO4 so it was like a gooey mess. Also, if your going to use the strontium nitrate from road flares it would not work, because there are fuel additives that would just be nitrated when acid formed (probably not even enough to form an explosive but enough to dilute your acid so nothing else could be nitrated). Ive never made DDNP but since picric acid is a relatively easy explosive to make its worth a try, do it in a small amount first.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-21-2001 09:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But remember that strontium is bivalent!
So per AMU of strontium in strontium nitrate, there is only slightly less NO3- than per AMU of potassium in potassium nitate! (AMU = atomic mass unit).
Picric acid synthesis and yields are on my website, and DDNP will be up as soon as I get some more KNO2. I made some, but tried using it to make R-salt, which didn't work. And I had to sacrifice a flask to make it, since the cooling KNO2 crystals stuck to the glass and pulled it inwards as they contracted
So I'll try and buy some. I'll also be putting up the first of the pictures on my website this weekend hopefully.
The URL, if you're interested, is www.flashbangboom.homestead.com/home_page.html
There's not much there at the moment, but I'll be adding lots to it so check back every week or so.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-21-2001 10:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DON'T DO THIS!!!!!
On a theorical level yes Ok
nitrates + H2SO4 --> HNO3 + Sulfates
But here you are talking about picric acid...
-First you will have a lot of SrSO4 precipitate in the media that will reduce the heat transfer from your cooler bath!
-Secondly the excess Sr(2+) ions in the media will make the sensitive salt of picric acid...Sr picrate (friction, shock and heat sensitive primary)....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
J
Moderator
Posts: 602
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-21-2001 01:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this go for KNO3 too? If I understand correctly, there will be Potassium Picrate being formed. What about NaNO3?
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-21-2001 02:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm confused. Will it work? If not, where can I get potasium nitrate or sodium nitrate?
Dhzugasvili
Frequent Poster
Posts: 64
From:
Registered: APR 2001
posted 06-21-2001 05:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have always made my Picric Acid with Phenol, nitric acid, and sulfuric acid. have never had any problems. This is a great explosive as long as you're NOT STUPID and treat it right. All of them are pretty easy chemicals to acquire. If you're talking about Kno3 and Nano3 they are even easier. If you want to make them you have to have access to potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide and neutralize the solution until you get a salt ...basic chemistry. As for the production of picrate salts, i am sure there is a way of dissolving them and not the picric...
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-22-2001 10:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK for NaNO3 and KNO3 or NH4NO3 but don't try other nitrates if you want to live.....
If not then I recommand to try Pb(NO3)2 + H2SO4 and phenol ....most likely boom.
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-22-2001 02:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have used Calcium NItrate in nitrations before
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-22-2001 04:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use Pb(NO3)2 and H2SO4 for the nitrations(actually only for nitrocellulose). It works great, now I'm looking at a pile of raw NC which I made before some hours .