ANFO casing - Archive File

[megalomania]

Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-24-2001 02:45 AM
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i'm having another go at ANFO, and i was wondering what kind of casing you guys use?
like how thick, diameter, steel? what sort of end caps you use? etc etc

i'm just having trouble figuring out what to use...
because i'm using AP putty as a detonator - i need something thats not going to shatter before the ANFO gets a chance to go off..

i was thinking of using a piece of 90mm concrete pipe, but i couldn't figure out how to close the ends of it off

anyone got any suggestions?



ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-24-2001 02:59 AM
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Use a 4" diameter Piece of ABS Pipe with end caps glued on in a bucket of cement. then bury it under 1 foor of earth. Im planning on detonating some anfo this summer and thats what im going to try. actaully i wll be attempting to detonate calcium nitrate/soy oil so CNsoy i suppose. I have detonted other CN mixtures and im hoping the soy oil will be able to sensitize the CN the same way it does so well with AN. I got the idea of the cement and the ansoy info from http://www.umr.edu/~boom/soy.html
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Explosives Archive

[This message has been edited by ALENGOSVIG1 (edited June 24, 2001).]



Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-24-2001 09:25 AM
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Mick: "I need something that's not going to shatter before the ANFO gets a chance to go off." There's no time delay between the detonator going off and the main charge going off. If the detonator is powerful to set off the charge, then it will no matter what it's cased in. No pressure needs to gradually build up or anything.


a_bab
Frequent Poster
Posts: 44
From: doesn't matter
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-24-2001 04:41 PM
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I will also try to detonate ANFO next week, with a timer delay (digi clock). I'll burry up the charge, wich will be around 1 kilo (minimum to detonate without confinement). I'll use about 100 grams of kinepak as booster. I also tryed to detonate a smaller charge with no confinement but it failed. A friend of mine tryed but he used too much oil - over 10 % - with an underwater charge, and all he obtained was nothing that a huge cloud of NO2 and a 'thump' sound...
...So, if u use a good confinement (water preserves the shock-wave very well), is possible to initiate even charges wich seems to be undetonable.
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[This message has been edited by a_bab (edited June 24, 2001).]



ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-25-2001 03:25 AM
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When fuel oil is in excess you get carbon monoxide and ammonia. The better the oxygen balance the less carbon monoxide fumes. After an anfo shot, dont run up right away to see remains, the fumes stink like hell and arent good for at all either.


Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-25-2001 09:42 PM
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mr cool: hmm that wasn't quite what i meant. what i meant was, the detonator keeps distroying the casing, thus it all of the force from the explosion of the detonator is been wasted, because it just been used to spread the ANFO everywhere.
this is why i wish to find a stronger casing so as i can confine it better.





HNIW
Frequent Poster
Posts: 46
From: Poland
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-26-2001 01:02 AM
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Casing, this is nonsense. If you have a good blasting cap, for example 3g of pressed HMTD, ANFO will set off in plastic bag without any problem. Metal containers use terrorists or army in bombs. Personally I use plastic or paper bag. Full detonation )
The problem of inexperienced pyrotechnics is that they don't know the theoretical basics of detonation.


Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 232
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-26-2001 02:06 AM
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eh...
HNIW, did i say i had HTMD? er..no.
i said i was using AP putty.
Now obviously, if i had HTMD i would use that wouldn't i?
wake up sunshine.



ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-26-2001 02:42 AM
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For , but for under 1.5 kg's its a good idea to place it in something strong. Personallylarge amounts of anfo you can use containers such as plastic bags and such, i trust the blasting school link i posted above. They are using pvc reinforced in concrete. Even when setting off 2.2 kgs. and 3 grams of HMTD? i dont think so. where did you get this information. In the blasting school link they were using 8 gram pentalite boosters charges. Personally, i trust the experts.

[fowkes.l]

Hi, im new in this forum and any giudance would be appreciated.
Just on the topic though, I believe it is necessary to have a booster as well as a detonator.
I have always used a booster and if I don't, it has always been incomplete detonation.
I use 2 gms of mf (used AP once) for detonator in a 7mm wide straw and 20grams of TNP for booster in a small pvc tube with epoxy at each end.. This charge has yet to fail. This can set of charges of ANFO up to 1 kg easily. I use carboard tubing 2.5 inch diameter and about 5mm thick. If you are using AP putty, use it as a detonator and use a larger amount of APAN up to 30 grams for a booster. This would easily work. If you use just a detonator expect incomplete detonation. Smaller charges you can set of with detonator but not that size

[rooster]

20 fucking grams of TNP!?! That won't take a finger, that will take your whole hand in an accident. Well, thats up to you, really. I believe 10 grams will do the job just as easy. I think in commercial boosters 2 grams of RDX or PETN is used, lets say that equals 3-4grams of TNP.

A booster isn't stricktly neccesary, according to my experience. 5grams of AP or HMTD will do a good job.

[webbsmurfen]

Originally posted by fowkes.l
Hi, im new in this forum and any guidance would be appreciated.

Here is some ideas
Read the faq..
Visit some of these pages. (good info about explosives)
http://roguesci.org/megalomania/
http://www.flashbangboom.homestead.com/procedures.html

20g of TNP!! You must be joking. (I think it’s a waste of good TNP. I agree with rooster, 7-10g will do the job just as easy )

[Sonny Jim]

I thought ANFO was supposed to be one of the notoriously stubborn explosives. I have read that a charge of 100g HMTD has failed to set ANFO off before. 10g of TNP just doesn't sound enough, although I could be wrong.

I think that it's better to make big detonators for ANFO. That way, success should be ensured, and the risk of the mixture just being blown everywhere by a stingy det is minimised.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

20 fucking grams of TNP!?! That won't take a finger, that will take your whole hand in an accident

A gram of AP would turn your hand into ground beef. 20 grams of TNP would likely rip your entire forearm off and leave you unconcious on the ground. But whats your point? This isnt AP, its TNP, a reagent thats often stored for 10+ years in labs with confidence. Its not just going to just spontaneously detonate for no reason.

Sonny, i agree thats it better to use a large booster when detonating anfo. Using 100 grams of HMTD is overkill if your anfo is sensitized. And making that much HMTD is too dangerous IMO. I usually use 30g of HE to detonate anfo made with dense prills. When i use powdered or porous "activated" AN, i always use a 10 ml syringe full of NG (16g) as a booster and ive never had a failure. And as with alot of explosives, the harder you hit them, the harder they hits back. Meaning when you use a larger booster the VoD of detonating anfo will be a bit higher.

[rooster]

I see your point, ALEN, but still he needs something to set off the TNP, right? If he uses 3 grams of TNP instead of 20 the damage in an accident will at least be less. And don't you think that 3 grams of TNP will set off almost anything, though maybe not with the highest VoD possible?

I understand why you are using such a big booster though, and I agree the ANFO really does kick better back.

[fowkes.l]

By using 20 grams of TNP full detonation will be achieved. I have found that if you use a smaller booster or detonator the ANFO is less poweful and most times only half or three quaters explodes, if your lucky, all of it will. I have never had any trouble with MF as a detonator and TNP as a booster. My father used to use half a stick of gelignite for a booster to set of 1-2 kg of ANFO off when he was blasting stumps. He said he was recommeded to do so to achieve full detonation and velocity. In the end its better of to use a booster, it saves a lot of time and stuffing around. You will achieve more power and most times are garunteed full detonation.

[crazy666pyro]

I know a few basics when it comes to explosives, but couldnt you use those small metal detonators? (the kind they use with model rockets) I have set off small explosives such as black powder and flash powder with these things. They are easy to use and cheap so I was just wondering. If not what kind of things can you detonate with these?:confused:

[Arthis]

No no, small detonators for rocket aren't very powerful. You need a really powerful cap to detonate ANFO. A high explosive or a strong LE, as mercury fulminate, is required.

[kingspaz]

crazy666pyro, the detonators you refer to are not actually detonators but IGNITORS since they do not detonate the explosive but ignite it. Flash and BP do not detonate but deflagrate (burn fast). they just so happen to burn so fast as to not have chance to let the gases produce vent from the case containing the powder before the entirity of the powder has burnt thus bursting open the case (exploding as you may call it).

these ignitors are only suitable for low explosives such as BP. secondary explosives will not detonate from these ignitors. primary explosives however such as mercury fulminate will be detonated as these explosives are very sensitive. also, nitrocellulose could be ignited by these ignitors but not detonated as this would require a detonator. the nitrocellulose would burn so fast as to function as a low explosive even though when excited with a detonator it will detonate at around 7000m/s.

i recommend you read through the archives and look up some definitions such as 'high explosive' and 'low explosive'.

[Zappy100]

Why don't you take ANMN instead of the ANFO? ANMN is as easy to make as ANFO and the ingreadients are as easily available and this stuff will be more sensitive than ANFO and easier to explode with small detonators.

Rgds
Zappy

[Arthis]

Maybe the price of NM, first, then sometimes it's mixed, last it's so easier to buy some diesel...
Of course it will be more difficult to detonate, but we (in our dreams of course) make explosives for fun, and even if it's a bit more difficult, it's fun too to make some NG to set off the ANFO.

Anyway, you still can make APAN as a booster, and it will just work as well with both ANFO and ANNM.

Many reasons to make ANFO. The choice is yours !

[zaibatsu]

Just to stop it before it starts, anyone debating whether or not flash can detonate will get HED.

[green beret]

I've heard paint tins are quite good for ANFO charges, assuming you are using a fair bit of ANFO. As was said before, as you get into larger charges such as 1kg and above, confinement becomes less of a problem, especially when using something like ANNM as the booster.

[xyz]

In my dreams with ANFO, charge placement mattered a lot more than what casing the stuff was in, just place your charge underground or in a confined space. I have dreamed that 300g of ANFO in a plastic bag worked very well when stuffed into a hole under a large hardwood log.