shotgun shell primer - Archive File

[megalomania]

Mexican Pizza
New Member
Posts: 23
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-20-2001 11:08 PM
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Before I start, I just want to say I did mutiple searches and still have not come up with the information that I needed.
Ok, so what I need to know is 1)What are shotgun shell primers made of? 2)What types of explosives can it set off (i.e. flash powder, AP, smokeless?) 3)How sensitive are they? (will they go off if accelerated quickly by means of a pneumatic potato gun) and 4)What things have you used these nifty little devices for?
Thanks
[This message has been edited by Mexican Pizza (edited June 20, 2001).]



ANTI-SYSTEM
Frequent Poster
Posts: 77
From: FL. USA
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-21-2001 01:40 AM
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i belive they are MF. will not go off in the launching from a pnunmatic or combustion cannon.i made rather effective contact gernades by drilling a larger hole in a used CO2 cartridge the same size as the primer.fill the cartridge with explosive of choise. add streamers to opposite end of cartridge (opposite of primer). use common sence on this device. it truely will help. it can be thrown or as i did shoot it out of a potato gun. & once again common sence!!


Mekap
New Member
Posts: 37
From: Australia
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-21-2001 01:51 AM
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I maybe wrong but, I always thought that the mustard(orange/yellow)colored powder removed from primers was Lead Styphnate. I have removed primers from shotguns and high powered rifles, both had the same mustard colored powder.
Whatever the powder is, it is shock, flame and spark sensitive. It is a primary explosive which means you can use that to detonate other explosives, not the other way around.
The best, but most unsafe thing to do is remove the powder, and make blasting caps!


SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 237
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-21-2001 02:32 AM
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I believe yes, it is lead styphanate, the older (and much more dangerous (sensitive)) primers contain mercury fulminate. the more modern ones with LS are considerably safer, but i still would not try to take the powder out of them. Try and buy them in boxes for reloading rifle / shotgun cartriges, and use them for ignition devices, or throw them or fire them from a shanghai / slingshot. Apparently they can also be fired from some airguns but i have not tried this.


Mekap
New Member
Posts: 37
From: Australia
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-21-2001 04:33 AM
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I have extracted the powder from primers a fair few times without a hitch, but you never know with primary explosives. I have never tried this method but read that you can soak the primers in a solvent. The solvent breaks down the adhesive, and makes dismantiling much easier, and safier.
What do you think?
Acetone maybe more favorable, as it breaks down most adhesives, and would be easy to reclaim your LS?


Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-21-2001 09:45 AM
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ANTI-SYSTEM talks about using common sense, after saying that he fires sensitive high explosives out of a home-made cannon!
That's funny!


Mexican Pizza
New Member
Posts: 23
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-21-2001 02:23 PM
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I wanted to know what is the safest and easiest way to get into the powder after soaking it in a solvent. I will soak it in acetone. it looks like the button can be pried off but I thought I'd ask before wasting them or going deaf.


ANTI-SYSTEM
Frequent Poster
Posts: 77
From: FL. USA
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-21-2001 03:51 PM
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OK, ok the only high explosive was in the primer and i dont think the jolt from shooting it would set it off in fact i know because iv done it. the are very effective though!


Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-21-2001 04:29 PM
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I tried prying the button/cup/doodad off a spent primer and nearly broke the knife blade. I dunno if having being hit by a the gun hammer jammed it on, but it wouldn't budge.


Mekap
New Member
Posts: 37
From: Australia
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-21-2001 07:35 PM
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Pimers have and outer casing then they have whats called an anvil inside that, if solvent is used to soften up the glue. The cap would be removed revealing an anvil, LS and some wadding(couple of small pieces of paper). Needle nose pliers will remove the anvil, then a match stick will be perfect to scrape the wadding and LS out. Now I know that not only adhesive will be holding primers together, as they are pressed together on completion.
I have only ever sucessfully removed powder with pliers, cutting 1mm from the end of primer sqaushing back into shape. Then using a match stick to scrape as much as I could out. So if this solvent method works, tell us how it goes, im very interested in this one.


madog
New Member
Posts: 23
From: USA
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-21-2001 10:41 PM
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there is info on extracing explosines from primers in Makeshift Arsenal. he says to soak them in acetone then remove the anvil with a pin, tweezers or needle nose pliers. then scrape out the lead styphnate and let it dry. he says tha he sees no safe way to remove the explosive from shotshell primers. he also says that precussion caps for muzzle loaders contain mercury fulminate, are bigger and have no anvil
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"True freedom is not without anarchy"



SawedOff8gaugeman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 52
From: Finland
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-23-2001 04:50 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Mexican Pizza:
2)What types of explosives can it set off (i.e. flash powder, AP, smokeless?)
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I can quickly partially answer question 2: Is can set off smokeless. That's what it's used for!!!



Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-24-2001 11:39 AM
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ANTI-SYSTEM: I know it'd be pretty safe really, but I'm sure you get my point! It just sounded kinda funny.


DBSP
New Member
Posts: 28
From: swe
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-26-2001 08:45 PM
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A few days ago I took the explosive out of an
shotshell primer. I can't tell if it is very safe but it works.
I soaked it in acetone and sawed of the top of the primer and removed the anvil. Then it was just to remove the explosive. My experiences of primers is that they are quite stable and that it takes quite a lot of force to "accidently" detonate them. As long as you are carefully you should be able to remove the explosive quite safely.

[bubbling_beaker]

hello, this post might be a bit too late but do small rimfire 22. shells have lead styphnate in them too? i remember when i looked in one, there was alot of slighly green sparkly green powder in it.
thanx.

[irish]

Yes they do.
I've posted this link here before, but anyway here it is again

http://www.olin.com.au/MSDS/htm/MSDSs.htm

There is mostly all the info on winchester ammo you may need in those MSDS, most brands will be very much the same material.
The green powder will be propellant (mostly nitrocellulose) the primer compound is in the base of the case around the rim.

[EP]

Has anyone ever considered removing the LS from primers with the solvent method and then using it to make detonators? It should be safer than ones made with AP, any comments/ideas?

[xyz]

EP, I have read a pdf about improvised detonators (It was something of Ragnar Benson's IIRC) where they discussed this, you have to open between 5 and 25 primers depending on the type. In the pdf, large pistol primers were used.

You would want large primers (large pistol size, large rifle size, or .50BMG size) so that you didn't have to open up lots of them.

I wonder what the difference in composition between standard and magnum primers is, magnum primers are supposed to produce a larger and hotter flame for igniting large amounts of powder or igniting powder that is difficult to ignite.

[McGyver]

One day I decided to take apart a 7.62 round. After removing the smokless powder, I couldn't get the primer off so I decided to put it in a vise and try to detonate it with a nail and hammer... good thing it didnt go off after a couple of tries. The only way the primer came off was when i cut it in half with a hacksaw and even then the explosive didnt come out when I picked it with a nail. So my point is, it is probably easier to make an AP det then hassle with alot of cartridges.

[metal dragon]

Hello
I heard these primers detonate quite violently when say 10 or so are used. SWIM has recently prepared ANWAX and doesn’t want to take the risk of using un-stable organic peroxides for the detonator. The primers are easily bought from a gun shop and say twenty of those primers packed into straw with KNO3/sugar on top for the delay fuse. Would this be useful to detonate ANWAX? Or maybe even add a bit of smokeless powder the ANWAX to give a higher rise to detonation?

Any comments are welcome.

[DBSP]

NO fucking way.

Lead styphnate is too weak to be used for detonating ANWAX unless you gather about 5g of it, at least. Too much hassle, better yo use organic pe4roxids instead then.

The primers detonates my simly heating them, And they detonate by shocking them, smakc one with a hammer and they'll go off.

I don't really know how you can abuse one like described without them going off. It's rather easy to get the lead styphnate out of the primers actually, just get the anvil out of the cap anbd wet them with acetone and scrape oit out. DON'T scrape it out without wetting it, they are very friction sensitive and will most likely go off.

NO putting a few caps in a straw with some KNO3/sugar will not work, first of all the primers wont go off at the same time and even if they did they are far to weak to detonate something like ANWAX

[metal dragon]

I to have seen the PDF by Ragnar Benson it is called if I am correct “Ragnar’s guide to improvised blasting caps” or something along those lines. It states that if the primers are moistened with water they can be pressed with more than 25 kilos of pressure. Why bother extracting primers when you can purchase them rather cheaply at the gun store for purposes of reloading? I would rather press these primers in to a casing then AP. These would also have a long shelf life, again better than the organic peroxide. SWIM currently has 130 large rifle primers that make quite a bang when 5 are pressed into an old TV antenna.

[xyz]

Actually I would feel a lot safer pressing AP than primer comp... For example, AP can be pressed while dry, lead styphnate has to be moist in order to be safely pressed. It is also much more sensitive to shock or friction than AP is.

Lead styphnate from primers is also less powerful. Look at "Improvised Arsenal" for proof of this, Lowry did a test where a load of empty rifle casings were filled with various explosives, the 5 Lead Styphnate cases looked like metal popcorn afterwards, the 5 AP cases all blew to tiny fragments a few mm in size.

There would be the advantage of a longer shelf life though.

[Spanrice4U]

I was just wondering... How many shotgun shells would I have to empty to fill a 20ounce soda/pop/soda-pop/cola bottle? haven't tried yet, but i want to know if i would need one box or two, or three (25 shells a box) I already have a plan for remote detonation that will work. I have been planing this for a while and next month I'm headed to my brother's cabin, where I am going to the blow the fuck out of something...

[grendel23]

If you are talking about filling a soda bottle with smokeless powder from shotgun shells, then you are somewhat off topic, and on the hairy edge of "Kewl".
If you are talking about filling a soda bottle with priming compound from shotshell primers, you are a fool.
If priming compound can be safely removed from primers,(I have some doubts), then the only sane use is as a primary for use in small quantities in a firing train.

[irish]

Spanrice4U, I hate to say it but that was a somewhat stupid question, but to answer it anyway you will need a lot more than three boxes of even the most powerfull 10 gauge shells you can get and probably a slab (250) of normal 12 gauge. You are a lot better off if you buy a tin of powder for reloading (get the fast stuff for light loads).
Also a pop bottle full of smokeless is not going to do a lot unless you get it confined very well.

[PhoeniX_KEA]

I have seen the primer shell (a small formed pocket) popped out of a shotgun no.209 primer by pinching the whole primer in a vese to extrude the primer pocket. The anvil was easily removed by using a small needle nose plyer or tweezer. Then the LS was scrapped from the pocket into a receptacle. I observed this beeing done on 100 primers without any going off.