OTC Tungsten bullets

[nbk2000]

I was going through my Bass Pro catalog when I saw these.

http://nbk2000.freeyellow.com/W_Weights.jpg

These are used as lead weight replacements in worm lures. They're composed of 95% tungsten/5% nickel, and are harder than steel, while being almost twice as dense. :)

Prices for the size suitable for 5.56 and 7.62mm rounds are quite affordable at between $0.75 and $1 each round. 1-800-227-7776 (1-800-BASS-PRO), page 222 of their master catalog,

Since this are intended as fishing lure weights, I don't imagine anyone having any troubles getting them through customs into countries that are anti-gun. ;)

Alas, since they ARE fishing weights, they're not designed for use in firearms, requiring some modification prior to use. You'll likely have to resize them by machinging, prior to fitting them into a copper jacket, since they are too hard to engage rifling as-is.

Given the inherent difficulties in otherewise obtaining decent AP bullets, without even being in an anti-gun country, alternate sources of pork-penetrating bullets would be a good thing to have. Yes, they'd be expensive, but that's what real gun control is all about...hitting what you aim at. ;)

I've also included the normal lead weights since they're so cheap and ready for use as bullets in improvised firearms. They're only about $5/100, and have hollowed bases, just like Miniere bullets! :)

This also brings to mind the problem of forging/machining tungsten shapes. Tunsten has a melting point of 3410&degC! :eek: So much for casting it...:( This kind of temps require arc or induction furnaces. Though perhaps it becomes malleable at a much more managable temperature? I believe I saw mentioned in a patent about how it becomes ductile if heated above 150&degC.

[Tuatara]

Forging is probably the best shaping technique. Many metals become readily forgeable well below their melt points. Steel is a classic one - typical forging temps for steel around 600 to 900 C. I'd love to see someone try to melt W without an inert atmosphere.

[nbk2000]

Perhaps the nickel is being used as a binder? Its m.p. is 1/3rd that of the tungsten.

Perhaps a person could use electrolysis to seperate the two, reducing the tungsten to a powder.

If the lures could be forged, though, then that'd be prefered. I'n thinking of how they could be formed into quadrangle shot. That'd be the shit right there. :) Harder than steel, twice as dense as lead, and shaped to shred piggy vests after going through the doors/windows of their cars.

I've never heard of any pyrophoric reactions with tungsten. Sure you're not thinking of titanium?

[zaibatsu]

I know this thread isn't originall about obtaining tungsten powder, but, if you wanted some, you could buy it from here (http://www.corbins.com/chemical.htm) along with jackets etc.

[Mr Cool]

I believe that they would be made of tungsten powder, sintered with nickel, in order to cut manufacturing costs. I can't see any other reason for 5% nickel.
Electrolysis eats tungsten under certain conditions, but apart from that and H2O2 it is a very unreactive metal towards common acids etc. So if you wanted tungsten powder from those, chemically eating away the nickel might be the way to go, with HCl for example.

[nbk2000]

Ah, but couldn't the nickel be used to bind the tungsten powder into the new shape, after it'd been seperated?

[Tuatara]

Trying to melt W in air - and I do mean tungsten - ever broken open a running light bulb? Tungsten filament vanishes in a puff of white dust.

Just tried forging the stuff - it works. I heated a thoriated tungsten electrode to red-orange heat, using a kerosene blow-torch (damn, thats such a great toy :D ). Thumping it with a ballpeen hammer successfully deformed the metal. Kept playing until the rod broke where I was holding it with vise-grips.

[nbk2000]

Great...now know of any way to turn it into 2mm spherical shot for use as grenade fragments? :)

[Tuatara]

Does it have to be spherical? The stuff shatters into shards at room temp when belted with a hammer. Yes, I tried that too!

[nbk2000]

A welding rod is a whole different item than these fishing weights. Did you try whacking the rod before you heated it? The heating may have embrittled it.

The frags have to be spherical if it's going to retain velocity over any decent distance. Does W amalgamate with mercury? I've a patent for making fragmenting AP bullets that uses amalgamations with zinc and some other metals. I'd imagine with W added in, it'd be much more effective and it could be cast into the required shapes.

Natural fragmentation is easy, but very inefficient, which is why modern munitions use pre-formed fragments. Though perhaps for small weapons like shotgun grenades...

[Mr Cool]

I don't think tungsten does amalgamate. I would try it but I ate up all my welding electrodes to get the ThO2 out.

"The heating may have embrittled it"

The welding rods are brittle even before heating, and they snap easily. I think pure tungsten is quite brittle too, but I bet the ThO2 doesn't help. But as you said, 2% ThO2 and 5% Ni will cause the tungsten to have very different properties in each case.