megalomania
June 18th, 2003, 03:42 PM
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-11-2001 03:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is safer and more effective?
I say : MF
higher DV
more cal/gram
more stable
can be made easier.
what you think?
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-11-2001 05:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i've not used MF but i find HMTD far better quality than AP. it seems less sensitve. it stores a hell of alot better than AP and it does seem to be more powerful.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-11-2001 06:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercury fulminate is easier to make than AP or HMTD? You very sure about that?
Cipolla
New Member
Posts: 37
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-12-2001 02:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The main drawbacks of HMTD are that it corrodes metals and that it stores bad. The senstitivity is comparable to MF and lower than TCAP. It is much stronger than MF and stronger than TCAP. Lead block expansion of MF is anything about 150 (don't remeber exactly), TCAP 270 and HMTD 330. HMTD is also a better detonating compound than MF and get's not dead pressed. By the way, MF is almost not in use anymore.
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-12-2001 02:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well for me its easier to make it! it takes less time ! less sensitive it doesnt go off by it self.
HMTD is not good with metalic caps right? MF is ok
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-12-2001 01:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HMTD is LESS sensitive than MF to impact and I believe friction and heat as well, but MF doesn't spontaneously detonate like HMTD can.
Yes, HMTD has the best performance, and is more stable than CTAP. And it doesn't give you brain damage, it costs a few pounds to make about 50 grams, it requires no special precautions during manufacture (no conc. strong acids, no toxic fumes, no highly toxic corrosive waste to deal with). It's easy to coat the inside of metal caps, or just use plastic or paper (I use thin, but strong cardboard). The ONLY way in which MF is better than HMTD is that it never spontaneously detonates and it might be slightly more storage stable.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 02:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AP 5300m/s @ 1.18gm/cc
HMTD 5100m/s @ 1.10gm/cc
MF 5000m/s @ 4.00gm/cc
MF seems to be the poorest performer when it comes to VoD.
MF requires conc. HNO3 and mercury, not exactly chemicals that are widely available, nor at all cheap. Messing with mercury is also going to give you funny looking kids.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-12-2001 05:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But remember that the purpose of the primer is simply to detonate the base charge, so DV and lead block expansion is less important than the right mix of the following characteristics: Sensitivity ( low friction/impact sens. high flame sens. ),
stability in storage at various temperatures,
ability to go from deflagration to detonation, low reactivity, high predictability, and of course initiating performance ( which is not directly related to DV or lead block expansion ).
In the end, all of these primaries are capable of detonating the usual base loads
( of which nitromannitol may be the most interesting due to the ease of manufacture ),
and so we must consider the other factors instead.
HMTD alone will not reliably undergo DTD if pressed hard ( which I think is neccessary to give reasonable stability ).
AP decomposes too fast for storage stability ( confining it in an airtight casing tends to make it prone to spontaneous decomposition ).
MF has its shortcomings too, but none of them are as disastrous as those of the other two.
Ultimately I would think about which type of detonator I would rather carry in my pocket, and the fact that MF was used commercially for years settles the matter in my opinion.
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-13-2001 02:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you Microtek,
BTW MF doesnt neet conc nitric acid
5g Mercury
35 70% NA
50 96% Ethyl
Let the Mercury disolve in the NA it take about 30m but be sure that it disolved well, dont inhale the fumes.
Add the disolved mercury (nitrated) to the Ethyl wait about 10min alot of fumes like a cloud then you have your MF.
wash it then add some Ammonia water to it. if you want to use it you have to let it dry if not put it underwater and thats it.
i know AP and HMTD sometimes detonates with no reason!!! but MF never had. Thas why i think its better.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-13-2001 06:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It might work with NH4NO3/H2SO4 mix, if only low conc HNO3 is required... Although mercury hardly grows on trees around here.
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-13-2001 09:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda sophies choice hear.
MF is not something to cary in your pocket! You drop one of those caps, and youll be missing our foot!
HMTD reacts disaterously with metals. It will also go off in direct sunlight.
AP has an experation date that makes eggs look like the food to stock the war room with. I read though that if you wash the AP with baking soda it lasts longer.
Take your pick.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-13-2001 10:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way people complain it sounds like AP vapouises faster than ethanol! I always keep AP in shall open containers (for safety's sake) and haven't looked at it a week later and thought "it's half gone!" It's hardly death valley round here but it's got to be 20*C. For me volitarisation is not a con for AP, that would be it's touchyness.
What about the recently discussed ONS for initiation ability and suitability?
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-14-2001 02:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What we all guys posted assure that MF is better than AP and HMTD at least because its safer and stay longer.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 03:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: never NH4NO3/H2SO4 will work to make Mercury fulminate simply because HgSO4 is fairly unsoluble and will precipitate any Hg(2+) preseny in solution!
CTAP is stable especially if wet; and volatility can be diminished in a closed container (with the cap just deposed on top-not screwed or pressed...due to vapor pressure the main of the CTAP will remain there (in that nearly closed system)recristallising itself: no risks of explosion since wet and no screwcap to take away-just lift up the lid)
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-14-2001 04:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: What is the ONS You refer to?
It isn't octonitrosucrose is it?
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 158
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 06-14-2001 05:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If my AP was dry on monday night,will it be still ok to use to try and set off some HTH and naphtha explosive if it has been washed thoroughly with Baking Soda and water,it has been stored in an airtight plastic jar and has been kept in a dark cool place for the past 4 days???(hoping to use it on Sunday,approximately 9 grams).
Also the temperature here hasn't risen past 20 degrees for the last week.
I'm believe it will still be ok to use,just wanted professional advice and some first hand experience.
Demolition
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-14-2001 07:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILOU I would like to know your opinion about the subject we are discussing?
Another thing, how much MF to set off lets say 10kg of ANFO?
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 08:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
demolition, your AP should be ok. i've stored it for 2 weeks and its still worked. its when you get to the scale of a month or two that you will notice some of it missing. well at least in my experience. my AP wasn't that satble either as i didn't wash it in baking soda.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 09:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A no8 blasting cap is equivalent to a 2.0g MF...so with a density of 4 that makes 0.5ccm!!
No doubt 4g will do the job if wel inserted in a strong metal container like copper pipe 0.6cm inner diameter (with 4g you should have a lenght of about 3.7-4cm full of MF!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-14-2001 11:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark: your HMTD goes off in sunlight? Either you live somewhere on Mercury or it's impure. Well washed, neutralised HMTD won't unless it's a VERY VERY hot day!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-14-2001 11:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My favourite primary is DDNP. It's quite a lot more effort, but all the ingredients are common, and it's stable and powerful. And according to my Encarta encyclopaedia it's found in many modern commercial and military blasting caps, so it must be reliable.
Although my garden centre seems to have stopped selling sodium nitrite now, which is a problem.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 12:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He Mr Cool, just an idea passing by...
By bubbling NOx trough a solution of water you get HNO3 and HNO2!
By neutralising this with a base like NaOH or Na2CO3 you get NaNO3 and NaNO2!
So basically:
1)
Cu + HNO3 + little heat to start --> Cu(NO3)2 + NOx (NO + NO2 + N2O3 + N2O4)
1')or via solid paraformaldehyde!
(CH2-O-)n + HNO3 --> H2O + CO2 + HCO2H + NOx
2)
NO + 1/2O2--> NO2
NO + NO2 --> N2O3
N2O3 + H2O --> 2 HONO
3)
HONO + NaOH --> NaONO + H2O
2HONO + Na2CO3 --> 2NaONO + H2O + CO2
4)
NaNO3 + NaNO2 + HCl --> HONO + NaCl +(very little bit HONO2)
Conclusion:
No problemo amigo!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-14-2001 02:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'd rather not have to use up valuable HNO3, but if I can't find another source I might have to, so thanks!
Reducing my KNO3 would be better, since I've got about 40 lb of that lying around.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 04:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no MF via NH4NO3/H2SO4 then!
ONS is indeed Octonitrosucrose
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-14-2001 07:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Cool, it wasnt my HMTD. It was on XINVENTIONS. His HMTD was drying in the sun and it went off. Theres this giant hole in his desk.
Ezikiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 66
From: New Delhi, India
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-14-2001 09:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone ever try using Lead Styphnate or Picrate or even Cu2C2. Those r a few of my favourite primary explosives. I don't know about u guys but I can make them quite easily and they work great. And even a mixture of Pb(SCN)2 and KClO3 works great (keep playing with propotions). Let me know what u think.
------------------
"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-15-2001 09:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are dozens of primaries even more, you just have to find them in old chem books!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-15-2001 02:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I store an AP washed with sodium bicarbonate in a glass container full with water then sealed with plastic and the lid is screwed....so f...ar....so...goo...d
it's been nearly a year now, I bury it about 3 inch underground........well, this is totally silly but I havent got the chance to trash it right away....well, anyone has ever do things like this? Hazards?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-16-2001 05:41 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the subject of nitrite via the lead reduction route, how do you isolate the (potassium)nitrite from the PbO and left-over (K)NO3?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-16-2001 12:22 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You mix it with water. The lead oxide won't dissolve, the other two (KNO3 and KNO2) will, so you can filter it to get out lead compounds and unreacted lead. A bit of KNO3 left in doesn't really matter, so just heat it with the lead until you think it's all mostly gone. or find the solubilities and try fractional crystalisation. I think the nitrite will crystalise first...
I'm not sure how well this method works with KNO3 though. I've heard it does with NaNO3 but that KNO3 decomposes releasing NO2.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-16-2001 07:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What sort of temperature are you supposed to heat to? Melting point?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-17-2001 05:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FEMFEP says to use either KNO3 or NaNO3, to put about 4 grams of KNO3 and 12 grams of lead in some fireproof container and heat it in hot coals or with a blowtorch for 30 to 60 minutes.
Then it says to chip out the resulting yellow material and put it in methanol.
Heat the alcohol until a 'visible' reaction takes place, then filter to separate the PbO (crystals) from the KNO2 (dissolved).
My encyclopedia ( from 1940 ) says to use the same procedure, but to use water instead of methanol.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-11-2001 03:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is safer and more effective?
I say : MF
higher DV
more cal/gram
more stable
can be made easier.
what you think?
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-11-2001 05:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i've not used MF but i find HMTD far better quality than AP. it seems less sensitve. it stores a hell of alot better than AP and it does seem to be more powerful.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-11-2001 06:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mercury fulminate is easier to make than AP or HMTD? You very sure about that?
Cipolla
New Member
Posts: 37
From:
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-12-2001 02:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The main drawbacks of HMTD are that it corrodes metals and that it stores bad. The senstitivity is comparable to MF and lower than TCAP. It is much stronger than MF and stronger than TCAP. Lead block expansion of MF is anything about 150 (don't remeber exactly), TCAP 270 and HMTD 330. HMTD is also a better detonating compound than MF and get's not dead pressed. By the way, MF is almost not in use anymore.
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-12-2001 02:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well for me its easier to make it! it takes less time ! less sensitive it doesnt go off by it self.
HMTD is not good with metalic caps right? MF is ok
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-12-2001 01:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HMTD is LESS sensitive than MF to impact and I believe friction and heat as well, but MF doesn't spontaneously detonate like HMTD can.
Yes, HMTD has the best performance, and is more stable than CTAP. And it doesn't give you brain damage, it costs a few pounds to make about 50 grams, it requires no special precautions during manufacture (no conc. strong acids, no toxic fumes, no highly toxic corrosive waste to deal with). It's easy to coat the inside of metal caps, or just use plastic or paper (I use thin, but strong cardboard). The ONLY way in which MF is better than HMTD is that it never spontaneously detonates and it might be slightly more storage stable.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-12-2001 02:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AP 5300m/s @ 1.18gm/cc
HMTD 5100m/s @ 1.10gm/cc
MF 5000m/s @ 4.00gm/cc
MF seems to be the poorest performer when it comes to VoD.
MF requires conc. HNO3 and mercury, not exactly chemicals that are widely available, nor at all cheap. Messing with mercury is also going to give you funny looking kids.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-12-2001 05:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But remember that the purpose of the primer is simply to detonate the base charge, so DV and lead block expansion is less important than the right mix of the following characteristics: Sensitivity ( low friction/impact sens. high flame sens. ),
stability in storage at various temperatures,
ability to go from deflagration to detonation, low reactivity, high predictability, and of course initiating performance ( which is not directly related to DV or lead block expansion ).
In the end, all of these primaries are capable of detonating the usual base loads
( of which nitromannitol may be the most interesting due to the ease of manufacture ),
and so we must consider the other factors instead.
HMTD alone will not reliably undergo DTD if pressed hard ( which I think is neccessary to give reasonable stability ).
AP decomposes too fast for storage stability ( confining it in an airtight casing tends to make it prone to spontaneous decomposition ).
MF has its shortcomings too, but none of them are as disastrous as those of the other two.
Ultimately I would think about which type of detonator I would rather carry in my pocket, and the fact that MF was used commercially for years settles the matter in my opinion.
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-13-2001 02:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you Microtek,
BTW MF doesnt neet conc nitric acid
5g Mercury
35 70% NA
50 96% Ethyl
Let the Mercury disolve in the NA it take about 30m but be sure that it disolved well, dont inhale the fumes.
Add the disolved mercury (nitrated) to the Ethyl wait about 10min alot of fumes like a cloud then you have your MF.
wash it then add some Ammonia water to it. if you want to use it you have to let it dry if not put it underwater and thats it.
i know AP and HMTD sometimes detonates with no reason!!! but MF never had. Thas why i think its better.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-13-2001 06:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It might work with NH4NO3/H2SO4 mix, if only low conc HNO3 is required... Although mercury hardly grows on trees around here.
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-13-2001 09:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinda sophies choice hear.
MF is not something to cary in your pocket! You drop one of those caps, and youll be missing our foot!
HMTD reacts disaterously with metals. It will also go off in direct sunlight.
AP has an experation date that makes eggs look like the food to stock the war room with. I read though that if you wash the AP with baking soda it lasts longer.
Take your pick.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-13-2001 10:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way people complain it sounds like AP vapouises faster than ethanol! I always keep AP in shall open containers (for safety's sake) and haven't looked at it a week later and thought "it's half gone!" It's hardly death valley round here but it's got to be 20*C. For me volitarisation is not a con for AP, that would be it's touchyness.
What about the recently discussed ONS for initiation ability and suitability?
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-14-2001 02:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What we all guys posted assure that MF is better than AP and HMTD at least because its safer and stay longer.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 03:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: never NH4NO3/H2SO4 will work to make Mercury fulminate simply because HgSO4 is fairly unsoluble and will precipitate any Hg(2+) preseny in solution!
CTAP is stable especially if wet; and volatility can be diminished in a closed container (with the cap just deposed on top-not screwed or pressed...due to vapor pressure the main of the CTAP will remain there (in that nearly closed system)recristallising itself: no risks of explosion since wet and no screwcap to take away-just lift up the lid)
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-14-2001 04:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony: What is the ONS You refer to?
It isn't octonitrosucrose is it?
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 158
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted 06-14-2001 05:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If my AP was dry on monday night,will it be still ok to use to try and set off some HTH and naphtha explosive if it has been washed thoroughly with Baking Soda and water,it has been stored in an airtight plastic jar and has been kept in a dark cool place for the past 4 days???(hoping to use it on Sunday,approximately 9 grams).
Also the temperature here hasn't risen past 20 degrees for the last week.
I'm believe it will still be ok to use,just wanted professional advice and some first hand experience.
Demolition
Detonator
Frequent Poster
Posts: 133
From:
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-14-2001 07:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILOU I would like to know your opinion about the subject we are discussing?
Another thing, how much MF to set off lets say 10kg of ANFO?
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 08:50 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
demolition, your AP should be ok. i've stored it for 2 weeks and its still worked. its when you get to the scale of a month or two that you will notice some of it missing. well at least in my experience. my AP wasn't that satble either as i didn't wash it in baking soda.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 09:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A no8 blasting cap is equivalent to a 2.0g MF...so with a density of 4 that makes 0.5ccm!!
No doubt 4g will do the job if wel inserted in a strong metal container like copper pipe 0.6cm inner diameter (with 4g you should have a lenght of about 3.7-4cm full of MF!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-14-2001 11:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark: your HMTD goes off in sunlight? Either you live somewhere on Mercury or it's impure. Well washed, neutralised HMTD won't unless it's a VERY VERY hot day!
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-14-2001 11:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My favourite primary is DDNP. It's quite a lot more effort, but all the ingredients are common, and it's stable and powerful. And according to my Encarta encyclopaedia it's found in many modern commercial and military blasting caps, so it must be reliable.
Although my garden centre seems to have stopped selling sodium nitrite now, which is a problem.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 12:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He Mr Cool, just an idea passing by...
By bubbling NOx trough a solution of water you get HNO3 and HNO2!
By neutralising this with a base like NaOH or Na2CO3 you get NaNO3 and NaNO2!
So basically:
1)
Cu + HNO3 + little heat to start --> Cu(NO3)2 + NOx (NO + NO2 + N2O3 + N2O4)
1')or via solid paraformaldehyde!
(CH2-O-)n + HNO3 --> H2O + CO2 + HCO2H + NOx
2)
NO + 1/2O2--> NO2
NO + NO2 --> N2O3
N2O3 + H2O --> 2 HONO
3)
HONO + NaOH --> NaONO + H2O
2HONO + Na2CO3 --> 2NaONO + H2O + CO2
4)
NaNO3 + NaNO2 + HCl --> HONO + NaCl +(very little bit HONO2)
Conclusion:
No problemo amigo!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-14-2001 02:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'd rather not have to use up valuable HNO3, but if I can't find another source I might have to, so thanks!
Reducing my KNO3 would be better, since I've got about 40 lb of that lying around.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-14-2001 04:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well no MF via NH4NO3/H2SO4 then!
ONS is indeed Octonitrosucrose
mark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 195
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-14-2001 07:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Cool, it wasnt my HMTD. It was on XINVENTIONS. His HMTD was drying in the sun and it went off. Theres this giant hole in his desk.
Ezikiel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 66
From: New Delhi, India
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-14-2001 09:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone ever try using Lead Styphnate or Picrate or even Cu2C2. Those r a few of my favourite primary explosives. I don't know about u guys but I can make them quite easily and they work great. And even a mixture of Pb(SCN)2 and KClO3 works great (keep playing with propotions). Let me know what u think.
------------------
"Go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY"
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-15-2001 09:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are dozens of primaries even more, you just have to find them in old chem books!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-15-2001 02:43 PM
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I store an AP washed with sodium bicarbonate in a glass container full with water then sealed with plastic and the lid is screwed....so f...ar....so...goo...d
it's been nearly a year now, I bury it about 3 inch underground........well, this is totally silly but I havent got the chance to trash it right away....well, anyone has ever do things like this? Hazards?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-16-2001 05:41 AM
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On the subject of nitrite via the lead reduction route, how do you isolate the (potassium)nitrite from the PbO and left-over (K)NO3?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-16-2001 12:22 PM
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You mix it with water. The lead oxide won't dissolve, the other two (KNO3 and KNO2) will, so you can filter it to get out lead compounds and unreacted lead. A bit of KNO3 left in doesn't really matter, so just heat it with the lead until you think it's all mostly gone. or find the solubilities and try fractional crystalisation. I think the nitrite will crystalise first...
I'm not sure how well this method works with KNO3 though. I've heard it does with NaNO3 but that KNO3 decomposes releasing NO2.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2306
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-16-2001 07:04 PM
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What sort of temperature are you supposed to heat to? Melting point?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 205
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-17-2001 05:10 AM
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FEMFEP says to use either KNO3 or NaNO3, to put about 4 grams of KNO3 and 12 grams of lead in some fireproof container and heat it in hot coals or with a blowtorch for 30 to 60 minutes.
Then it says to chip out the resulting yellow material and put it in methanol.
Heat the alcohol until a 'visible' reaction takes place, then filter to separate the PbO (crystals) from the KNO2 (dissolved).
My encyclopedia ( from 1940 ) says to use the same procedure, but to use water instead of methanol.