NH4ClO3 - Archive File

[megalomania]

the_wingman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 49
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-03-2001 10:48 AM
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I was just wondering if somebody knows whether ammonium chlorate is really that sensitive as everybody says ("neeeever!!!! mix an ammonium salt with a chlorate!!!").
I'm not completely convinced of the danger beause I often mix KClO3 with sulfur and never something happens. And this is also a mixture that "should be avoided at all costs".


Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-03-2001 10:58 AM
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If you keep mixing KClO3 with S then eventually it WILL go off. You might get away with it hundreds of times, but eventually you'll have an accident.
The same is true with NH4ClO3. Just because you make it doesn't mean it'll explode, but there is a chance. And that chance isn't worth taking.


the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 175
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 06-03-2001 02:26 PM
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pretty much like CTAP, would I say!
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good boy with bad ideas



kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 347
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-03-2001 05:09 PM
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Has anybody here actually made ammonium chlorate?
If so how good would it be for a primary explosive?


Fallout85
Frequent Poster
Posts: 55
From: U.S.
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-05-2001 10:43 PM
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Look at www.boomershoot.org

[vulture]

Ammoniumchlorate can be isolated in very small amounts when handled very carefully and spread out in a very thin layer. The product will decompose explosively eventually, seemingly without reason.

I have a way of preparating it, which I will not post here. There's a reason why...

[Ollie Snowie]

I'm not sure about it being sooooo sensitive. I once tried a very small amount of NH4Cl mixed with NaClO3 weedkiller. Nothing happened. I moistened it. Nothing happened. I heated it with a blowtorch. Nothing happened (not even NH4Cl smoke forming(the wood around it was glowing red so it definitely was hot)). Do you think that whatever is in the other 50% of the weedkiller was stopping it forming NH4ClO3. I thought the fire depressant was just NaCl and I don't see how this would interfere. I also tried electrolysing NH4Cl solution at a moderate temperature and still nothing happened. Maybe it isn't so sensitive as people make out, but from what i've concluded, it's not much use either, and it emits nasty fumes when it explodes (IF it does).
On the other hand, I might not have made it at all. I'm not encouraging anyone to blow a hand off, and from what vulture says it is pretty sensitive, and he's probably right.

[vulture]

I've got this information from a German book, sixties. I can't remember the name right now, but it came from the uni library.

I think your reaction didn't form anything nasty because there was alot of inert NaCl in it and the solubility of the products and reactants doesn't differ very much, resulting in poor yield.

[Sparky]

Ammonium chloride is the one salt that is considered 'safe' to use with chlorates, though I'm not sure why this is. It is used in smokes a lot.

Vulture, it surprised me when you said you would not post how to make it. I considered the issue I think you're overreacting. Certainly people here understand (or they will ;)) that it is of no practical use and wouldn't try to actually use it for anything except to make it as an experiment. Anyways I decided to post part of Shimizu's Fireworks: The Art, Science and Technique. It's quite simple so it's not like anyone couldn't figure it out anyways. The information about it that comes after the synthesis is interesting too.



"
Ammonium perchlorate and pottasium chlorate can cause a double decomposition to produce ammonium chlorate and potassium perchlorate when they are mixed in a wet state:
NH4ClO4 + KClO4 --> NH4ClO3 + KClO4

Ammonium chlorate decomposes gradually at room temperature. Needless to say compositions which contain ammonium perchlorate and potassium chlorate must be avoided. An experiment for producing ammonium chlorate by above reaction can be carried out as follows: add 35 grams of potassium chlorate, KClO4, to 100 ml. water and dissolve it with heat. Add 36 grams of ammonium perchlorate, NH4ClO4, to the solution and stir it well when a large quantity of white crystals will appear; these are almost all potassium perchlorate. Leave it to cool to room temperature. Remove the crystals by filtration. The remaining liquid is mainly ammonium chlorate. Evaporate the mother liquor to about 30 ml. on a water bath. Cool it to room temperature and the ammonium chlorate will crystalize out as a crude product. Remove the crystals from the mother liquor. Dry the crystals leaving them at room temperature. The amount of ammonimu chlorate thus obtained is about 19 grams. The yield is about 55~63% of the theoretical value.
This substance, NH4ClO3, decomposes gradually, generating a yellow-brown gas which smells strongly of chlorine. The degree of decomposition is about 50% of the original amount at an average temperature of abotu 26oC over 35 days. A quantity of ammonimu chlorate thus prepared nwas stored in a glass bottle which had a loose filling (sic) rubber stopper and left at room temperature during the summer; in 48 hours it decomposed explosively, breaking the bottle.
Ammonium chlorate, NH4ClO3, alone explodes on strong impact, but it is not so sensitive to shock and friction in the absence of other combustible substances. A mixture of ammonium chlorate and shellac in the right ratio 10:2 burns with a rate of 1.2~1.3 mm per second, producing a slight yellowish flame. This burning rate resembles that of potassium chlorate composition.

[tmp]

I don't know how unstable NH4ClO3 is. But from the description of the last reply
I won't mess with this one. The Code Of Federal Regulations lists this, among
many other substances, as FORBIDDEN to transport by any means. If I were to
synthesize this, I would probably use my favorite metathesis reaction that yields
a relatively insoluble compound. I like to mix a hydroxide or sulphate of one
compound with a calcium compound. The precipitate is either calcium hydroxide
or calcium sulphate which filters out easily. In this case I would mix ammonium
sulphate and calcium chlorate. The calcium sulphate should precipitate out leaving
the ammonium chlorate in the solution.

[vulture]

NH4ClO4 + KClO4 --> NH4ClO3 + KClO4

That equation's not balanced...

[fire vs. water]

I think he meant KClO3 in the left side of the equation...
he said
ammonium perchlorate + pottasium chlorate => ammonium chlorate + pottasium perchlorate

[vulture]

Ah, ofcourse, how silly of me. So the driving force is the insolubility of KClO4.

This seems a rather dangerous method however. If it detonates when still reacting you have NH4ClO4 which could explode too.