megalomania
June 21st, 2003, 12:25 PM
Iñaki
New Member
Posts: 22
From: Earth planet, yeah if you pass orion please turn left...
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 05:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!! I was wondering if anyone could tell me an easy method to make Fe2O3 in large amounts, cause the one I did is very slow and it only gave me a few grams of this material. Another thing I wanted to ask what is the critical temperature (in celsius) in which Al will react with Fe2O3, and the temperature that can reach with this reaction. Thanks a lot
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 267
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-27-2001 10:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey INA
what do you mean by the critical temperature?
Whether you heat the mixture?
The room temperature for two to react?
Or just plain the temperature produced when the two react?
where's that anfo cool topic, got a note there!
Tony Montana
Frequent Poster
Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 10:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silly Man I admit, I hate rude people also,
for being rude I am sorry, but a bit of flaming, usually fires up a persons initiative to go and do most things himself(the objective), then come to the forum with questions that you simply cant find answers for, and MOST important, you can then share the knowledge you learn from searching and reading a fuck load of info, to try and find what you want; Thus doing your part for the forum(like everybody else).It just seemed that more and more people, were asking questions that should not be asked HERE! they should asked at weirdpier or totse. Looking back over your post, I may have jumped the gun a bit! As it seems you have recipe, you were looking for better one! Friendly advice: next time do a search or three, then if you havnt got what you want jump on the forum, and state what you have got! Put the recipe you have, and ask can this mix be fine tuned or something.
Iñaki
New Member
Posts: 22
From: Earth planet, yeah if you pass orion please turn left...
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 10:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, I meant in both cases, the temperature needed for the two components to react (because personally I think a lighter won´t do the trick in case I were mad to light it with, and the flame of a lighter is around 400-500 º celsius, am I right?); and the temperature it can reach while reacting. Thanks
Tony Montana
Frequent Poster
Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 10:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Improvised Munitions Black Book vol.3
Section.V
No.20\page.129 THERMITE INCENDIARY
Thermite is an incendiary that consists of iron oxide (rust) and aluminium mixed together in granular form. This incendiary produces molten iron and aluminium oxide when it burns. This molten slag iron, with a temperature in excess of 4,000 degrees farenhieght, it can be used to melt, weld and cut holes in metal. Machines or apparatus containing large numbers of small, complicated parts are hopelessly ruined by the melting and flowing action of the hot steel slag.
MATERIALS REQUIRED:
Iron oxide (black granules)
Aluminium granules
PROCEDURE:
NOTE: Thermite is comercially available already mixed. It is used in shipyards and on railroads for welding and repairing. If it cannot be obtained from comercial sources, it can be prepared by mixing filings from an aluminium bar with with iron oxide in the following manner:
1. Obtain aluminium by filing an aluminium rod or tube witha metal file. The particles must be small as coarse ground coffee or smaller.
2. Using a window screen as a filter, place several handfuls of filed aluminium particles on the screen and shake back and forth. Collect the aluminium particles that pass through the screen and fill a canning jar 1/3 full.
3. The iron oxide may be either red iron oxide commonly called jeweler's rouge or black iron oxide commonly called hammerscale or magnetic iron oxide. The black iron oxide can be found around forges, steel mills and foundries.
4. Whichever iron oxide is used, place several handfuls of it on a window screen and shake back and forth. Collect the iron oxide particles that pass through the screen and add them to mixing container containing the aluminium particles until it is 2/3 full.
5. Place lid on the mixing container and shake and tumble it for at least two minutes to blend the mixture together. It is now ready for use and can be stored for months in the closed container without losing effectiveness.
NOTE: To use thermite effectively against steel targets, it has to be enclosed in a special dispensing container.
Inaki: I have never tried this but it is from a reliable book. And would be one of the best ways to try!
ogi
New Member
Posts: 12
From:
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-28-2001 02:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"thermit" brand name dunno where to buy it but you can get it for nothing in bulk.
curious?
if you live near a railway they will have maintenance trucks parked nearby boxes of portions strewn about the back
magnesium to light it works best
reaction temp about 3000deg/cel
will explode if confined
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 05:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The initiation temp of the reaction is arround 2000C...you have to go higher if you don't have fine enough Al or Fe2O3 or intimate mix. I personnally have made it with 400 mesh Al powder and it works great with a sparkler (Al + Ba(NO3)2); but with a very fine Al powder that I have (nanosized Al highly activated powder)I can light the mix with a lighter (1200-1400C).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 360
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 08:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well if its iron oxide you want you can easily make it by electrolising peroxide solution with a couple of nails for a cathode. i say use peroxide solution because it will result in a faster reaction due to better conductivity and also more iron oxide will be produced. i think if you set the cell up in a bucket with a couple of car batteries for power i think you could create quite a bit of iron oxide.
Rhadon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 95
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-28-2001 04:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The neutralization isn't necessary if you dry your Fe2O3 after making it. But remember that some of your product will be iron chloride because of the hydrochloric acid.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 04:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say the neutralisation was worth it because residue acid could react with the Al and produce heat.
J
Moderator
Posts: 635
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 04:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The anode will be oxidized, the cathode won't react.
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 155
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-29-2001 02:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it did react though to produce heat it could make it eaiser to light depending on the amount of heat from the reaction.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-29-2001 10:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had some steel wool left out in the rain, when i picked it up it crumbled, it's almost flour consistency. good enough? The Al i could get would be from ground tent poles, how can ou tell if it is fine enough? it is rather coarse as i only have a large grain file. Apart from ball milling(i still haven't made one) is there a way to bake it finer.
I have heard that mixing HCl and Al will give AlCl I know this is corect, but the next step was to mix Mg into the solution (i believe it could be any metal more reactive than aluminium possibly Zn) This would dissolve into the sol. and Al would form as powder. i tried and was lefft with a dark black solution, and metal powder. My mum got it before i had a chance to filter it or any thing, but it would be easy to do again. would it work or would it be hard to tell which metal powder it is?
any comments appreciated.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 412
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-30-2001 08:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you are talking about is a displacement reaction, the Mg is more reactive than the Al, and so "steals" the Cl, leaving Al and magnesium chloride. But Zinc is not as reactive as aluminium is it? Perhaps you should do it the other way, Zn + HCL, and then add Al to get zinc powder.
Tony Montana
Frequent Poster
Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-30-2001 10:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TONY SIGHS, WITH SORE FINGERS!
Improvised Muntions Black Book Vol.2
Section V
No.7\Page 55 Improvised Iron Oxide
Iron oxide can be made from steel wool. It is used in the preparation of Improvised yellow flare, Improvised white smoke munition, Improvised black smoke muntion and Thermite incendiary.
Material Required:
Steel wool(without soap)
Pipe, approx. 4 feet long x 12 inches in diameter, 1/16 inches thick.
Vacuum cleaner
Electrical source
Window screen
Newspaper
2 Containers
Wooden blocks, if necessary
Flame source
Procedure:
1. Seperate a handful of steel wool into a fluffy ball approximately 12 inches in diameter and place into one end of the pipe.
2. Place the pipe on a level, non-flammable surface. Steady pipe with wooden blocks, if necessary.
3. Ignite the steel wool with a lighter, with the vacuum cleaner, force a stream of air through the pipe.
NOTE: The forced air provided by the vacuum cleaner aids in the burning of the steel wool. If steel wool does not burn comletely, more separation of the wool is needed.
4. When the steel wool has almost completely burned, add another handful of the fluffed steel wool(step.1).
5. Continue adding to the flame a single handful of fluffed wool at a time until sufficient ammount of iron oxide granules have accumulated in the pipe.
6. Place a window screen on a sheet of newspaper. Pour the burned steel wool granules onto the window screen and shake screen until all the fine particles have passed through.
7. Discard those particles on the newspaper which are fiberous and unburned.
8. Save the paricles which were too large to pass through the screen in one of the containers for future burning.
9. Store particles of iron oxide (left on newspaper)in another container until ready for use.
[This message has been edited by Tony Montana (edited June 30, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-01-2001 06:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do I get the impression that the vacuum cleaner is just going to blow the iron oxide all over the place? Maybe the screen should be fixed to the end of the pipe and then have a catch tray. Using a narrower pipe you'd have enough pressure blow blow the iron oxide onto the screen, the fine stuff would be blown through and caught and the unsuitable stuff would be caught.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-01-2001 11:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it the same as the other? - those being the water + steel wool and the Steel wool and ignition. The second turns out black, and the former orange / red. there is a difference, what is it? (different Iron oxides?)
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 415
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-02-2001 09:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The electrolytic process for making iron oxide is very slow. The idea of burning steel wool does work, the vacuum is just to pull enough air through the steel wool for complete oxidation but I have seen this in the IMH and it seems that it would need some modifications to work well.
I have also read before that you can buy large bags of iron oxide from ceramic/pottery suppliers for very cheap. It is used as a pigment in making pottery. This sounds like the best route for obtaining iron oxide.
deezs
Frequent Poster
Posts: 113
From: Hungary
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-02-2001 01:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My method for Fe2O3 producing:
1. Buy Fe2SO4. (a common fertilizer, 2-3$/5kg)
2. Get any kind of lye, or carbonate (NaOH, Na2CO3....)
3. Dissolve them in water, and pour them together. (To reach the best yield, calculate the equal amount of lye, which reacts with FeSO4)
Fe2+ + 2OH- = Fe(OH)2 (white)
2Fe(OH)2 + H2O + 1/2O2 = Fe(OH)3 (brown)
4. Filter the precipitation out, and wash it with water. (If you want really pure product, you can test the water with BaCl2 solution, to be SO42- free.)
5. Heat it, till you can see any vapor rising. (If you don't dry the precipitation in the sun, it will splash. To avoid the loss, cover the vessel with a piece of metallic window screen.)
2Fe(OH)3 = Fe2O3 + 3H2O
now you have iron-oxide.
In Hungary (Eastern-Europe) I can buy brown iron-oxide and Al powder in a paint store.
Both are wery fine (they cover everything, when I work with them), and the thermite reaction is violent, but I can't get liquid iron. The product is just an iron clod.
Can be the powders too fine?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1013
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-02-2001 03:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use red Fe2O3, and get liquid iron. It can't really be too fine.
J
Moderator
Posts: 635
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-03-2001 09:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many types of metal oxide can be purhcased from pottery suppliers, most are cheap.
Incidentally, I recently stumbled on a way of producing CuO. I was attempting to produce TACN using this method:
A solution of NH4NO3 was electrolysed overnight using a length of copper wire as an anode, and a small piece of Nicrome wire as a cathode. The solution turned a dark blue after a couple of hours, and the next day a large quantity of blue-green substance had formed on the anode and at the bottom of the jar. This (I assume) was Cu(OH)2, for when it was heated, it formed a black solid, which I believe is CuO.
Note that simply electrolysing a solution of plain water with a little NaCl will yield Cu2O. Not that this would matter for a thermite reaction, but it's useful to know. The CuO has a greater percentage O by weight, so requiring less to provide the same amount of O in the reaction.
I've made a post in the HE section thread about TACN concerning this experiment, please discuss this aspect there rather than here :-)
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 610
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-07-2001 05:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you visited a gallery where they
only sell pot's,you need to find one
where they make pot's,there they must
know what iron oxide or rust is other
wise there dumb because it's one of the
most common pigments.
I bought a kilo Iron Oxide for 4.60$
works perfect.
And AL powder at a paint shop,250GR for 8.06$
And every time when i sett of Thermite
i get black stuff not molten iron i
can break it into smaller pieces with
my hands.
New Member
Posts: 22
From: Earth planet, yeah if you pass orion please turn left...
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 05:16 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!! I was wondering if anyone could tell me an easy method to make Fe2O3 in large amounts, cause the one I did is very slow and it only gave me a few grams of this material. Another thing I wanted to ask what is the critical temperature (in celsius) in which Al will react with Fe2O3, and the temperature that can reach with this reaction. Thanks a lot
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 267
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-27-2001 10:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey INA
what do you mean by the critical temperature?
Whether you heat the mixture?
The room temperature for two to react?
Or just plain the temperature produced when the two react?
where's that anfo cool topic, got a note there!
Tony Montana
Frequent Poster
Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 10:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silly Man I admit, I hate rude people also,
for being rude I am sorry, but a bit of flaming, usually fires up a persons initiative to go and do most things himself(the objective), then come to the forum with questions that you simply cant find answers for, and MOST important, you can then share the knowledge you learn from searching and reading a fuck load of info, to try and find what you want; Thus doing your part for the forum(like everybody else).It just seemed that more and more people, were asking questions that should not be asked HERE! they should asked at weirdpier or totse. Looking back over your post, I may have jumped the gun a bit! As it seems you have recipe, you were looking for better one! Friendly advice: next time do a search or three, then if you havnt got what you want jump on the forum, and state what you have got! Put the recipe you have, and ask can this mix be fine tuned or something.
Iñaki
New Member
Posts: 22
From: Earth planet, yeah if you pass orion please turn left...
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 10:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey, I meant in both cases, the temperature needed for the two components to react (because personally I think a lighter won´t do the trick in case I were mad to light it with, and the flame of a lighter is around 400-500 º celsius, am I right?); and the temperature it can reach while reacting. Thanks
Tony Montana
Frequent Poster
Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-27-2001 10:38 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Improvised Munitions Black Book vol.3
Section.V
No.20\page.129 THERMITE INCENDIARY
Thermite is an incendiary that consists of iron oxide (rust) and aluminium mixed together in granular form. This incendiary produces molten iron and aluminium oxide when it burns. This molten slag iron, with a temperature in excess of 4,000 degrees farenhieght, it can be used to melt, weld and cut holes in metal. Machines or apparatus containing large numbers of small, complicated parts are hopelessly ruined by the melting and flowing action of the hot steel slag.
MATERIALS REQUIRED:
Iron oxide (black granules)
Aluminium granules
PROCEDURE:
NOTE: Thermite is comercially available already mixed. It is used in shipyards and on railroads for welding and repairing. If it cannot be obtained from comercial sources, it can be prepared by mixing filings from an aluminium bar with with iron oxide in the following manner:
1. Obtain aluminium by filing an aluminium rod or tube witha metal file. The particles must be small as coarse ground coffee or smaller.
2. Using a window screen as a filter, place several handfuls of filed aluminium particles on the screen and shake back and forth. Collect the aluminium particles that pass through the screen and fill a canning jar 1/3 full.
3. The iron oxide may be either red iron oxide commonly called jeweler's rouge or black iron oxide commonly called hammerscale or magnetic iron oxide. The black iron oxide can be found around forges, steel mills and foundries.
4. Whichever iron oxide is used, place several handfuls of it on a window screen and shake back and forth. Collect the iron oxide particles that pass through the screen and add them to mixing container containing the aluminium particles until it is 2/3 full.
5. Place lid on the mixing container and shake and tumble it for at least two minutes to blend the mixture together. It is now ready for use and can be stored for months in the closed container without losing effectiveness.
NOTE: To use thermite effectively against steel targets, it has to be enclosed in a special dispensing container.
Inaki: I have never tried this but it is from a reliable book. And would be one of the best ways to try!
ogi
New Member
Posts: 12
From:
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-28-2001 02:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"thermit" brand name dunno where to buy it but you can get it for nothing in bulk.
curious?
if you live near a railway they will have maintenance trucks parked nearby boxes of portions strewn about the back
magnesium to light it works best
reaction temp about 3000deg/cel
will explode if confined
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 05:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The initiation temp of the reaction is arround 2000C...you have to go higher if you don't have fine enough Al or Fe2O3 or intimate mix. I personnally have made it with 400 mesh Al powder and it works great with a sparkler (Al + Ba(NO3)2); but with a very fine Al powder that I have (nanosized Al highly activated powder)I can light the mix with a lighter (1200-1400C).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
kingspaz
Frequent Poster
Posts: 360
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 08:18 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well if its iron oxide you want you can easily make it by electrolising peroxide solution with a couple of nails for a cathode. i say use peroxide solution because it will result in a faster reaction due to better conductivity and also more iron oxide will be produced. i think if you set the cell up in a bucket with a couple of car batteries for power i think you could create quite a bit of iron oxide.
Rhadon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 95
From: Germany
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-28-2001 04:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The neutralization isn't necessary if you dry your Fe2O3 after making it. But remember that some of your product will be iron chloride because of the hydrochloric acid.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 04:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say the neutralisation was worth it because residue acid could react with the Al and produce heat.
J
Moderator
Posts: 635
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-28-2001 04:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The anode will be oxidized, the cathode won't react.
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 155
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted 06-29-2001 02:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it did react though to produce heat it could make it eaiser to light depending on the amount of heat from the reaction.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-29-2001 10:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had some steel wool left out in the rain, when i picked it up it crumbled, it's almost flour consistency. good enough? The Al i could get would be from ground tent poles, how can ou tell if it is fine enough? it is rather coarse as i only have a large grain file. Apart from ball milling(i still haven't made one) is there a way to bake it finer.
I have heard that mixing HCl and Al will give AlCl I know this is corect, but the next step was to mix Mg into the solution (i believe it could be any metal more reactive than aluminium possibly Zn) This would dissolve into the sol. and Al would form as powder. i tried and was lefft with a dark black solution, and metal powder. My mum got it before i had a chance to filter it or any thing, but it would be easy to do again. would it work or would it be hard to tell which metal powder it is?
any comments appreciated.
zaibatsu
Frequent Poster
Posts: 412
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 06-30-2001 08:24 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you are talking about is a displacement reaction, the Mg is more reactive than the Al, and so "steals" the Cl, leaving Al and magnesium chloride. But Zinc is not as reactive as aluminium is it? Perhaps you should do it the other way, Zn + HCL, and then add Al to get zinc powder.
Tony Montana
Frequent Poster
Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 06-30-2001 10:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TONY SIGHS, WITH SORE FINGERS!
Improvised Muntions Black Book Vol.2
Section V
No.7\Page 55 Improvised Iron Oxide
Iron oxide can be made from steel wool. It is used in the preparation of Improvised yellow flare, Improvised white smoke munition, Improvised black smoke muntion and Thermite incendiary.
Material Required:
Steel wool(without soap)
Pipe, approx. 4 feet long x 12 inches in diameter, 1/16 inches thick.
Vacuum cleaner
Electrical source
Window screen
Newspaper
2 Containers
Wooden blocks, if necessary
Flame source
Procedure:
1. Seperate a handful of steel wool into a fluffy ball approximately 12 inches in diameter and place into one end of the pipe.
2. Place the pipe on a level, non-flammable surface. Steady pipe with wooden blocks, if necessary.
3. Ignite the steel wool with a lighter, with the vacuum cleaner, force a stream of air through the pipe.
NOTE: The forced air provided by the vacuum cleaner aids in the burning of the steel wool. If steel wool does not burn comletely, more separation of the wool is needed.
4. When the steel wool has almost completely burned, add another handful of the fluffed steel wool(step.1).
5. Continue adding to the flame a single handful of fluffed wool at a time until sufficient ammount of iron oxide granules have accumulated in the pipe.
6. Place a window screen on a sheet of newspaper. Pour the burned steel wool granules onto the window screen and shake screen until all the fine particles have passed through.
7. Discard those particles on the newspaper which are fiberous and unburned.
8. Save the paricles which were too large to pass through the screen in one of the containers for future burning.
9. Store particles of iron oxide (left on newspaper)in another container until ready for use.
[This message has been edited by Tony Montana (edited June 30, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2383
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-01-2001 06:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do I get the impression that the vacuum cleaner is just going to blow the iron oxide all over the place? Maybe the screen should be fixed to the end of the pipe and then have a catch tray. Using a narrower pipe you'd have enough pressure blow blow the iron oxide onto the screen, the fine stuff would be blown through and caught and the unsuitable stuff would be caught.
SATANIC
Frequent Poster
Posts: 240
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-01-2001 11:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it the same as the other? - those being the water + steel wool and the Steel wool and ignition. The second turns out black, and the former orange / red. there is a difference, what is it? (different Iron oxides?)
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 415
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-02-2001 09:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The electrolytic process for making iron oxide is very slow. The idea of burning steel wool does work, the vacuum is just to pull enough air through the steel wool for complete oxidation but I have seen this in the IMH and it seems that it would need some modifications to work well.
I have also read before that you can buy large bags of iron oxide from ceramic/pottery suppliers for very cheap. It is used as a pigment in making pottery. This sounds like the best route for obtaining iron oxide.
deezs
Frequent Poster
Posts: 113
From: Hungary
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-02-2001 01:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My method for Fe2O3 producing:
1. Buy Fe2SO4. (a common fertilizer, 2-3$/5kg)
2. Get any kind of lye, or carbonate (NaOH, Na2CO3....)
3. Dissolve them in water, and pour them together. (To reach the best yield, calculate the equal amount of lye, which reacts with FeSO4)
Fe2+ + 2OH- = Fe(OH)2 (white)
2Fe(OH)2 + H2O + 1/2O2 = Fe(OH)3 (brown)
4. Filter the precipitation out, and wash it with water. (If you want really pure product, you can test the water with BaCl2 solution, to be SO42- free.)
5. Heat it, till you can see any vapor rising. (If you don't dry the precipitation in the sun, it will splash. To avoid the loss, cover the vessel with a piece of metallic window screen.)
2Fe(OH)3 = Fe2O3 + 3H2O
now you have iron-oxide.
In Hungary (Eastern-Europe) I can buy brown iron-oxide and Al powder in a paint store.
Both are wery fine (they cover everything, when I work with them), and the thermite reaction is violent, but I can't get liquid iron. The product is just an iron clod.
Can be the powders too fine?
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1013
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted 07-02-2001 03:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I use red Fe2O3, and get liquid iron. It can't really be too fine.
J
Moderator
Posts: 635
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-03-2001 09:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many types of metal oxide can be purhcased from pottery suppliers, most are cheap.
Incidentally, I recently stumbled on a way of producing CuO. I was attempting to produce TACN using this method:
A solution of NH4NO3 was electrolysed overnight using a length of copper wire as an anode, and a small piece of Nicrome wire as a cathode. The solution turned a dark blue after a couple of hours, and the next day a large quantity of blue-green substance had formed on the anode and at the bottom of the jar. This (I assume) was Cu(OH)2, for when it was heated, it formed a black solid, which I believe is CuO.
Note that simply electrolysing a solution of plain water with a little NaCl will yield Cu2O. Not that this would matter for a thermite reaction, but it's useful to know. The CuO has a greater percentage O by weight, so requiring less to provide the same amount of O in the reaction.
I've made a post in the HE section thread about TACN concerning this experiment, please discuss this aspect there rather than here :-)
J
------------------
Download the forum archive from my yahoo briefcase
PGP key available here (ID = 0x5B66A792)
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 610
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-07-2001 05:14 AM
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Maybe you visited a gallery where they
only sell pot's,you need to find one
where they make pot's,there they must
know what iron oxide or rust is other
wise there dumb because it's one of the
most common pigments.
I bought a kilo Iron Oxide for 4.60$
works perfect.
And AL powder at a paint shop,250GR for 8.06$
And every time when i sett of Thermite
i get black stuff not molten iron i
can break it into smaller pieces with
my hands.