HMTD formula - Archive File

[megalomania]

oxyrad
New Member
Posts: 14
From: Perth,Western Australia
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 07-18-2001 10:03 AM
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Does anyone know the chemical formula for the reaction which makes HMTD
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YZ's are the best



VasiaPupkin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 48
From: Moscow. Russia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-19-2001 02:29 PM
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I make HMTD from HNO3: It so easy.
(CH2)6N4 + 2HNO3 + 3H2O2 => N(CH2OOCH2)3N + 2NH4NO3 + 3H2O. If you use citric acid, reaction like this.


simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 242
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 07-19-2001 06:40 PM
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The equation would be absolutely right if the 3 molecules water in the right didn't existed.


PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-23-2001 07:43 AM
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Wrong!
(CH2)6N4 + HNO3 + H2O2 --> N(CH2O-OCH2)3N + NH4NO3 + H2O doesn't need to be equilibrated like many organic reactions!
Since a lot of intermediaries can occur like methylamine nitrate; the mechanism is so complex that by facility you don't write all the compounds!
As a remark I can add that water is the main ingredient in this reaction since you dont use 100% HNO3 nor H2O2 (what would be BTW suicidal!).
So indeed H2O is formed from H2O2!
I wonder if Simplyred can tell me in what the peroxyde of hydrogen would turn in...
Actually I think he miss an important info:
C6H12N4 + H2O <--> HOCH2-NH2 + HOCH2-NH-CH2OH + (HOCH2)3N + polymers of the same family.
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"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
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VasiaPupkin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 48
From: Moscow. Russia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-23-2001 04:10 PM
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In that proportions (from this reaction formulas) the better yeild (I use 50% H2O2). I checked it many times. But reaction is really more complex. This is only common equation.

[invcdr]

I heard that the acid added in HMTD reaction is just catalyst.
(In addition, the citric acid has no nitrogen atoms in it's molecule.)
Therefore I assumed the acid should not be involved in the reaction.

After doing a simple calculation, I thought that the HMTD reaction would be like this;

C6H12N4 + 3H2O2 => C6H12O6N2 + 2NH3

In other words...
1 mole hexamin + 3 moles hydrogen peroxide yield
1 mole HMTD + 2 moles ammonia

(molecular mass... C: 12, H:1, O:16, N:14)

Of course the ammonia will be dissolved into water, forming NH4 and OH ions.

Is this formula right?
Please correct my faults.

Thank you.

[invcdr]

The answer is found from Helos's post.

(Here it is: http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=278)


In summary, the three reaction steps are as below;

C6H12N4 + 6 H2O ======> 4NH3 + 6CH2O (1st step)

6 HCHO + 3 H2O2 ======> 3 HO-CH2-O-O-CH2-OH (2nd step)

3 HO-CH2-O-O-CH2-OH + 2 NH3 ======> HMTD + 6 H2O (3rd step)

As a result, the total reaction scheme is:

3 H2O2 + Hexamine ======> HMTD + 2 NH3
(3 moles H2O2 + 1 mole Hexamin yield 1 mole HMTD + 2 moles NH3)


I corrected the '3 H2O' in the original post to '6 H2O'.

Therefore the mass ratios of reactants are;

(ingredients)
Hexamine 140
Hydrogen peroxide 3*34=102
(yield)
HMTD 208
Ammonia 34

The law of conservation of mass is satisfied.