megalomania
June 21st, 2003, 01:32 PM
stanfield
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Posts: 176
From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-14-2001 02:46 AM
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C-4 preparation requieres 91% RDX, 5,3% polyisobutylene and 3,7% plastisizer but what's polyisobutylene and wherecan I find this stuff ?
secondly, what is this "3,7% plastisizer"
wax ? paraffin ?
thanx for all !
cutefix
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Posts: 330
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-14-2001 03:37 AM
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Hello Stanfield,please do some reading in this popular sites:http://www.crosswinds.net/~transmitt/books/kipe2.txt and http://survivallink.com/howto/explos.txt
There are other related sites,just care to search,use the keyword plastic explosives and maybe you can uncover another link.
wantsomfet
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Posts: 239
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-14-2001 07:39 AM
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Polyisobutylene is used in insulating tape, chewing gum, and in this putty to repair cars (don't know the word). It's polimerized 2-methylpropene (C4H8).
Unsoluble in: methanol, ethanol, acetone, cyclohexanone, glycerine & glycol
Swells in: butylacetate, diethylether, fat & oil from plants & animals
Soluble in: paraffine, white gas, diesel, benzol, methylenchloride, toluene
The plasticiser is Bis(2-ethylhexyl) sebacate (C26H50O4)
------------------
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Teck
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From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-16-2001 04:29 AM
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Type in polyisobutalene into any search engine and it will show you some hints I now exxon mobile sells it and a few other companys, Look up my old thread on this and it has some info where to get it
SafetyLast
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Posts: 235
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-16-2001 04:07 PM
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yeah, I posted this question half a year ago when I was a regular here. as for the car putty I think its called Bondo or body filler
something along those lines.
for C-4 you also need Ethhyl Hexl Sebecate or something like that.
kingspaz
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Posts: 360
From: UK
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posted 07-07-2001 05:22 PM
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could polyisobutylene be extracted from chewing gum by dissolving the polyisobutylene in petrol and filtering any shit that doesn't dissolve then evapourate the petrol leaving the polyisobutylene?
stanfield
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From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-08-2001 06:40 AM
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interresting but which chewing gum ? there are so many chewing gum on the market !
kingspaz
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From: UK
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posted 07-08-2001 09:06 AM
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i think they are all based on polyisobutylene so i think any would do. if its possible it could be a fairly cheap source of it as chewing gum is pretty cheap.
Anthony
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From: England
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posted 07-08-2001 09:12 PM
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It's free if you don't mind using pre-chewed stuff! "New brand of C4 now bursting with mouth-watering fruitiness!"
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-08-2001 09:34 PM
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Right, i understand you can get this from the inside of basket balls and car tyres.
what does the stuff look like? what am i looking for in the tyres, etc.?
kingspaz
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From: UK
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posted 07-09-2001 09:50 AM
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i would geuss if it is found in tyres then it could possibly be part of the inner tube. not physically visible but mixed with the rubber.
Anthony
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From: England
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posted 07-09-2001 10:55 AM
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Car tyres are tubeless. I'd imagine it refers to the "bladder" found inside leather footballs and it usually orange. But chewing gum and football bladders have obviously very different properties so can they be the same compound?
Bitter
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From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
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posted 07-09-2001 01:31 PM
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You can't get it out of tires; the polyisobutylene is intermittently (covalently) linked with the chains of polyisoprene. The rubber in tyres are co-polymers.
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-09-2001 02:27 PM
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Has anyone succesfuly extracted it from bubble gum yet? im sure evryone will be interested!!
kingspaz
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posted 07-09-2001 05:01 PM
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i want to try it but i'm going away tomorrow but if i remember i will try it before i go and post my results.
kingspaz
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From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-10-2001 06:42 AM
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well i've just tried it just now and failed but only because i was rushing it and fucked everything up. i am pretty sure it will work so here is a possible method which should work:
1. pour some white petrol into a petrol proof container.
2. chew up lots of chewing gum and stretch out into a big flat shape (larger surface area so easier to dissolve) - also leaving the chewed chewing gum in the fridge over night dries it out a bit and makes it less sticky s easier to work with.
3. put it into the petrol and stir it for ages.
4. when its all dissolved the colour should be a chewing gum colour. then leave this mixture to sit for an hour. this allows most of the flavourings and shit to settle at the bottom.
5. pour petrol through a 4 layer cotton clth filter (well thats what i used). try to make sure as little shit from the bottom as possible goes onto the filter.
6. leave petrol to evapourate.
i'll try this properly when i get back. i think this should give you polyisobutylene as an end product. oh yer the petrol that comes out of the filter should be clear because it shouldn't have any shit in it.
stanfield
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Posts: 176
From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-10-2001 07:43 AM
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Impresive !
tell me if you obtain polyisobutylene by your method next time you'll do it and tell me more especially about measurement ...
see ya !
10fingers
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Posts: 415
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-13-2001 10:44 PM
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Someone posted awhile back that bazooka bubble gum contained polyisobutylene. It's also in butyl rubber caulk which you can get at most hardware stores for $2.00 per 1 lb tube.
stanfield
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From: FRANCE
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posted 07-14-2001 03:20 AM
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ok but I live in France and all is forbidden here ! So, I can only get some chewing gum...
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-15-2001 07:03 PM
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I've been on a big bubblegum mission. I can't find any of that bazooka gum.All the other brands i have found don't contain polyisobutylene (well it's not on the ingredients list) .Does anyone know of any brands that do contain polyisobutylene in the UK?
What brand did Kingspaz use?
Also if it is in insulation tape, couldn't it be extracted by a similar method to the one Kingspaz described?
wantsomfet
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posted 07-16-2001 05:43 AM
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The insulating tape should be pure PIB. There would be no need to purify it.
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stanfield
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From: FRANCE
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posted 07-16-2001 06:50 AM
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I can't see what are exactly these "insulating tape".
haven't you got an exact translate in french or a picture, something like that ?
thanx...
Cricket
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From: USA
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posted 07-16-2001 03:14 PM
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Are we talking about the black tape, electrican's tape? If it's pure, whats the stickey stuff (the same as tape, or not)? I always wondered where I could get this stuff, and it was in my room all along .
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-16-2001 03:18 PM
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I can't find a picture but you get it in a role like sticky tape. It's thick, not transparent and usually colored black, green yellow, red, blue.
I did my college work experience in a plastics factory (in the quality testing lab).
Im not sure if it is pure because there are probably resin based pigments,calcium,U.V additives dispersed in it.
And what about the sticky stuff? That will have to be removed right?.
If i am wrong, dose this mean when making C4
you just dissolve it in the gasoline as it is?
Anthony
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From: England
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posted 07-16-2001 05:14 PM
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I think I know the electrical tape you mean, it's the stretchy stuff that has a rubbery(ish) feel to it. Not the cheap PVC stuff.
Stanfield, electrical/insulating tape is used by electicians to insulate connections and to bundle wires together. It's usually comes on a roll about 1-2 inches in diamteter and 1/2inch wide.
I guess the black variety would be purer as it has now coloring chemicals added to it? I think the whole lot wold dissolve in petrol (backing and sticky shit) so this may not work to purify it.
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited July 16, 2001).]
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-16-2001 10:51 PM
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Yea Anthony that is the stuff that i waz thinking of!
Do u mean that pure polyisobutylene should be black?
(I have never seen the stuff)
Yea i think the sticky stuff would dissolve in the gasoline as well! this would be a big problem, since the sticky stuff would be a very large amount if u were using a lot of tape!
That's fucking gay! coz i can get shit loads of it really cheap!
Wow! i just thought of something!!!
I rember that polyisobutylene is not soluble in certain substances like : methanol, ethanol, acetone, cyclohexanone, glycerine & glycol.
So if the sticky stuff would dissolve in one of these then then it can be removed easily!
Anthony
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posted 07-17-2001 03:35 PM
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I'm not 100% certain polyisobutylene is black, but I know butylene is black so I'm guessing it is. The sticky shit should dissolve in acetone I don't think it will in alcohol (methanol at least) because the sticky shit on gaffa tape doesmn't and I'm guessing it's a similar/the same stuff.
Tony Montana
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posted 07-17-2001 09:48 PM
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If one was to get chewing gum with polyisobutylene in it. I think it would be better to put chewing gum in a pan of boiling water to dissolve flavors, colors etc. Then I would dry it and then dissolve in gasoline. Also unless 90% of explosives manufactures dye or bleach the polyisobutylene, I am pretty sure it will be white (like Hubba Bubba left under running water).
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-17-2001 10:33 PM
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Im gona try with methylated spirits 2morrow!Hubba Bubba is bubblegum right? Has that got any polyisobutylene in it?
cutefix
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From: california
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posted 07-17-2001 10:35 PM
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Polyisobutylene(PIB) used in actual production scale manufacture of C-4 have about 120,000> molecular weight.It is cut to pieces and let dissolve in the solvent like toluene.Therefore it is solid and not pasty or sticky..It acts as a binder while the di(2-ethylhexyl)sebacate is the plasticizer.If Bazooka uses PIB also it can be the lower molecular weight type,chewing gum is sticky.If the finished C-4 is dirty white then probably one of the components is off white possibly the PIB.PIB is used also in the manufacture of Detaflex sheet explosive,and polymer with lower molecular weight form sticky material that are hard to machine into sheets .
Jumala
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From: Germany
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posted 07-17-2001 10:59 PM
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Does anyone know something about the colored plasticine (children play with it).
Plasticine with a little more softener could be used direct to mix it with RDX.
cutefix
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From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-18-2001 03:29 AM
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Simple Plasticine clay are made of microcrystalline wax,oil and grease,plus powdered clay ;it replaces ordinary moist clay made from water and clay,how can it replace the polymer polyisobutylene as binder..Plasticine may be moldable like C-4,and that’s where the similarity ends.Maybe you are insinuating a simple plastique where its just a blend of RDX,wax,oil and emulsifier?It would be interesting if you could explain further about this idea.
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-18-2001 02:59 PM
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Right just tried methylated spirits!
First it diddn't work so i put it in a boiling hot water bath for 15 mins.
The sticky shit turned a grey colour. I left it for a further 15 mins but there were no further changes!
I dryed the tape and the sticky stuff now clumps together. You can then rub it off easily with your fungers compleatly, leaving no sticky shit at all!
I still think that acetone would work better though!
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-18-2001 03:27 PM
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Polyisobutylene is white to pale yellow!
Cheak these pdf files out!
http://www.exxonmobil.com/chemical/customer/products/families/butyl/vistanex/
and
http://www.scientificpolymer.com/Products/description.asp?QProductCode=682
Lagen
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From:
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posted 07-18-2001 04:43 PM
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Some professional brands of modeling clays and plastilines (like Chavant) use finely powdered sulfur instead of clay. You should make sure this would be compatible with your explosive (eg. not mix it with chlorates). Sulfur is also incompatible with HMTA, which is contained in some C4 formulations.
Tony Montana
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Posts: 145
From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-19-2001 03:21 AM
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Personally, I would not bother with the polyisobutylene. Heres a chapter of interest:
Improvised Munitions Black Book
Volume 3 Page 49
EXPLOSIVE FLOUR
An explosive that looks and bakes like ordinary wheat flour can be made from a mixture of flour and RDX. It can be used in many different forms as an explosive: in its dry powder form, moistened with water and used as a dough like plastic explosive, or by using special recipes it can be baked into pancakes or biscuits.
MATERIAL REQUIRED:
RDX, Flour, Large sheet of wood and a rolling pin.
PROCEDURE:
1. Place a tablespoon of RDX crystals on the large sheet of wood. Using a rolling pin, crush the crystals into a fine powder, the consistancy of flour. CAUTION:Use only a rolling pin. It is important to crush the RDX crystals into a fine powder rather than using friction between two rubbing surfaces.
2. Mix 80% by weight of powdered RDX with 20% of flour in a canning jar with a tight fitting lid by shaking for 5 minutes.
3. The mixed explosive flour can be stored in the sealed mixing container for long periods of time before using. It can also be disguised by storing it in an original bag of flour.
HOW TO USE:
1. This explosive flour is more powerful and brisant than military TNT and is easiest to detonate in its powdered form. A standard blasting cap provides sufficient shock to set it off.
2. To use as a plastic explosive, mix 4 parts by weight of flour to 1 part by weight of water. This forms a dough that has very desirable plastic qualities which can be used to mold itself around certain types of targets in the same manner as military C-4 plastic explosive. A compound detonator must be used to insure positive detonation.
3. The following recipes make it possible to bake the powdered explosive into pancake or biscuit form:
A; For pancakes the following recipe can be used:
3 cups of explosive flour
2 teaspoons of baking powder
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1 cup of milk
1 egg
2 teaspoon of melted lard
NOTE: This pancake mixture can be left on the griddle until it completely chars with no unusual effects, thus demonstrating the stability of the mixture to heat.
B: For baking powder biscuits, the following recipe can be used:
3 cups of explosive flour
2 teaspoons of baking powder
3/8 teaspoon of salt
2 teaspoons of lard
85cc or ml of water
4. The finished pancakes and biscuits look, feel and taste like the ordinary pancakes and biscuits. However, they are highly toxic and SHOULD NOT BE EATEN. Before using these baked items as an explosive, they must be moistened and kneaded into a plastic mass to remove the air spaces. They may then be exploded in the same manner as the plastic form.
cutefix
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Posts: 330
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-19-2001 07:01 AM
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The question is, have anybody tried this mixture and did it work?
Besides it is different topic
[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited July 19, 2001).]
CodeMason
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From: Your Nightmares
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posted 07-19-2001 09:53 AM
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Why bother with C-4, honestly? Just make good ol' Semtex, the plasticizers can be bought from larger supermarkets! The only reason to prefer C-4 over Semtex is plasticity over a larger temperature range, which shouldn't bother too many people at all.
John456
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From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 07-19-2001 01:00 PM
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I dont know about the rest of you, but whenever i make semtex the vegetable oil soaks into the PETN just turning it into a crumbly greasy mass. It doesnt plasticize at all. What am i doing wrong?
Lagen
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From:
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posted 07-19-2001 04:14 PM
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Excuse me, but how do you know that Semtex is prepared by mixing PETN with vegetable oil? I believe that was an "invention" of somebody on this forum. For the compositions of the original Semtex made in Synthesia see http://edetonator.hyperlink.cz/Semtexy.htm (yes, the guy used a web translation program, and does not update the site anymore) or if you want to make a good substitute see Kroways' post in the Semtex thread.
stanfield
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From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-19-2001 05:20 PM
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your recipe is nice, Tony Montana, but what is the detonation velocity of real C-4 and your homemade C-4 ? is there any loss of velocity ?
Secondly, is your homemade C-4 also flexible/modulable ?
John456
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From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 07-19-2001 07:05 PM
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Doh! No wonder it hasnt worked I also tried making a plastique from:
Big Red chewing gum
PETN
Motor Oil
I dissolved 1.5 grams of Big Red (chewed for about an hour) in 25mL of petrol. It took about an hour of stirring to get it to dissolve and when it did some red dusty stuff settled to the bottom. After filtering the gas had sort of a pink color and no sediments in it. I then added about 4 drops of motor oil and 7 grams of PETN. The PETN didnt dissolve but sunk to the bottom and turned blackish. After it all evaporated it was a black mass that was sort of sticky but lost its stickiness when i rolled it around on my hands a bit. It was quite greasy too, and it went off with 1 gram of AP.
Tony Montana
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From: Australia
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posted 07-19-2001 09:58 PM
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Stanfield: I have never made explosive flour, nor have I made C-4, therefore cannot accurately give you an answer, except tell you that both products have high amounts of RDX as the explosive component. If you want to see if the mixture is moldable, go to your kitchen take 3 parts by weight ordinary flour and add 1 part water to it(the product will be nearly exact). Yes its very plastic!
cutefix
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Posts: 330
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-20-2001 03:59 AM
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The semtex made with oil will not have plastic nature because of the absence of plasticizer.The principle of semtex and C-4 are the same ;It needs a binding material,(a polymer like rubber or polyisobutylene)plus a medium that will soften and maintain its plasticity(e.g.,ethyl hexyl sebacate+SAE 10 motor oil) and a solvent like white gas or toluene as a dispersing medium.This is just the basic principle,because its different in actual large scale production of this type of explosives(more complicated).
That explosive flour have definetly lower VOD because of lower content and density of the explosive mass.The explosive flour has a theoretical VOD of 6880 m/s.If mixed into a pancake batter it will have 53% RDX content,if baked will have 66% RDX due to moisture loss.The biscuit dough will have an estimated explosive content of 66%and when baked will have 75%RDX.If C-4 has an average RDX content of 91% and at optimum density ,it will definitely have outstanding power,than the flour based plastique,which aside from lower cyclonite content plus,the porous nature of the dough structure will lessen its density and will reflect in lower VOD which I estimate roughly between 5000-6000 m/s theoritically even if the baked product is crushed to maximize the density, versus 8000 m/s for C-4.However I’m afraid that the actual detonation velocity will be lesser in the actual test(in the vicinity of 5000m/s)Anyway that flour based plastique if it work, is the easiest and simplest to make,but will have less power than semtex or C-4.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 176
From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-14-2001 02:46 AM
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C-4 preparation requieres 91% RDX, 5,3% polyisobutylene and 3,7% plastisizer but what's polyisobutylene and wherecan I find this stuff ?
secondly, what is this "3,7% plastisizer"
wax ? paraffin ?
thanx for all !
cutefix
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Posts: 330
From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 06-14-2001 03:37 AM
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Hello Stanfield,please do some reading in this popular sites:http://www.crosswinds.net/~transmitt/books/kipe2.txt and http://survivallink.com/howto/explos.txt
There are other related sites,just care to search,use the keyword plastic explosives and maybe you can uncover another link.
wantsomfet
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Posts: 239
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-14-2001 07:39 AM
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Polyisobutylene is used in insulating tape, chewing gum, and in this putty to repair cars (don't know the word). It's polimerized 2-methylpropene (C4H8).
Unsoluble in: methanol, ethanol, acetone, cyclohexanone, glycerine & glycol
Swells in: butylacetate, diethylether, fat & oil from plants & animals
Soluble in: paraffine, white gas, diesel, benzol, methylenchloride, toluene
The plasticiser is Bis(2-ethylhexyl) sebacate (C26H50O4)
------------------
for best catfood visit:
kangaroooo.cjb.net
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted 06-16-2001 04:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Type in polyisobutalene into any search engine and it will show you some hints I now exxon mobile sells it and a few other companys, Look up my old thread on this and it has some info where to get it
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 235
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted 06-16-2001 04:07 PM
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yeah, I posted this question half a year ago when I was a regular here. as for the car putty I think its called Bondo or body filler
something along those lines.
for C-4 you also need Ethhyl Hexl Sebecate or something like that.
kingspaz
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Posts: 360
From: UK
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posted 07-07-2001 05:22 PM
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could polyisobutylene be extracted from chewing gum by dissolving the polyisobutylene in petrol and filtering any shit that doesn't dissolve then evapourate the petrol leaving the polyisobutylene?
stanfield
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From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-08-2001 06:40 AM
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interresting but which chewing gum ? there are so many chewing gum on the market !
kingspaz
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From: UK
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posted 07-08-2001 09:06 AM
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i think they are all based on polyisobutylene so i think any would do. if its possible it could be a fairly cheap source of it as chewing gum is pretty cheap.
Anthony
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From: England
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posted 07-08-2001 09:12 PM
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It's free if you don't mind using pre-chewed stuff! "New brand of C4 now bursting with mouth-watering fruitiness!"
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-08-2001 09:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right, i understand you can get this from the inside of basket balls and car tyres.
what does the stuff look like? what am i looking for in the tyres, etc.?
kingspaz
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Posts: 360
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-09-2001 09:50 AM
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i would geuss if it is found in tyres then it could possibly be part of the inner tube. not physically visible but mixed with the rubber.
Anthony
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From: England
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posted 07-09-2001 10:55 AM
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Car tyres are tubeless. I'd imagine it refers to the "bladder" found inside leather footballs and it usually orange. But chewing gum and football bladders have obviously very different properties so can they be the same compound?
Bitter
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From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
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posted 07-09-2001 01:31 PM
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You can't get it out of tires; the polyisobutylene is intermittently (covalently) linked with the chains of polyisoprene. The rubber in tyres are co-polymers.
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-09-2001 02:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone succesfuly extracted it from bubble gum yet? im sure evryone will be interested!!
kingspaz
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From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-09-2001 05:01 PM
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i want to try it but i'm going away tomorrow but if i remember i will try it before i go and post my results.
kingspaz
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Posts: 360
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-10-2001 06:42 AM
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well i've just tried it just now and failed but only because i was rushing it and fucked everything up. i am pretty sure it will work so here is a possible method which should work:
1. pour some white petrol into a petrol proof container.
2. chew up lots of chewing gum and stretch out into a big flat shape (larger surface area so easier to dissolve) - also leaving the chewed chewing gum in the fridge over night dries it out a bit and makes it less sticky s easier to work with.
3. put it into the petrol and stir it for ages.
4. when its all dissolved the colour should be a chewing gum colour. then leave this mixture to sit for an hour. this allows most of the flavourings and shit to settle at the bottom.
5. pour petrol through a 4 layer cotton clth filter (well thats what i used). try to make sure as little shit from the bottom as possible goes onto the filter.
6. leave petrol to evapourate.
i'll try this properly when i get back. i think this should give you polyisobutylene as an end product. oh yer the petrol that comes out of the filter should be clear because it shouldn't have any shit in it.
stanfield
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Posts: 176
From: FRANCE
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-10-2001 07:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Impresive !
tell me if you obtain polyisobutylene by your method next time you'll do it and tell me more especially about measurement ...
see ya !
10fingers
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Posts: 415
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted 07-13-2001 10:44 PM
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Someone posted awhile back that bazooka bubble gum contained polyisobutylene. It's also in butyl rubber caulk which you can get at most hardware stores for $2.00 per 1 lb tube.
stanfield
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posted 07-14-2001 03:20 AM
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ok but I live in France and all is forbidden here ! So, I can only get some chewing gum...
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-15-2001 07:03 PM
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I've been on a big bubblegum mission. I can't find any of that bazooka gum.All the other brands i have found don't contain polyisobutylene (well it's not on the ingredients list) .Does anyone know of any brands that do contain polyisobutylene in the UK?
What brand did Kingspaz use?
Also if it is in insulation tape, couldn't it be extracted by a similar method to the one Kingspaz described?
wantsomfet
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posted 07-16-2001 05:43 AM
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The insulating tape should be pure PIB. There would be no need to purify it.
------------------
for best catfood visit:
kangaroooo.cjb.net
stanfield
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From: FRANCE
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posted 07-16-2001 06:50 AM
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I can't see what are exactly these "insulating tape".
haven't you got an exact translate in french or a picture, something like that ?
thanx...
Cricket
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posted 07-16-2001 03:14 PM
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Are we talking about the black tape, electrican's tape? If it's pure, whats the stickey stuff (the same as tape, or not)? I always wondered where I could get this stuff, and it was in my room all along .
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-16-2001 03:18 PM
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I can't find a picture but you get it in a role like sticky tape. It's thick, not transparent and usually colored black, green yellow, red, blue.
I did my college work experience in a plastics factory (in the quality testing lab).
Im not sure if it is pure because there are probably resin based pigments,calcium,U.V additives dispersed in it.
And what about the sticky stuff? That will have to be removed right?.
If i am wrong, dose this mean when making C4
you just dissolve it in the gasoline as it is?
Anthony
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posted 07-16-2001 05:14 PM
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I think I know the electrical tape you mean, it's the stretchy stuff that has a rubbery(ish) feel to it. Not the cheap PVC stuff.
Stanfield, electrical/insulating tape is used by electicians to insulate connections and to bundle wires together. It's usually comes on a roll about 1-2 inches in diamteter and 1/2inch wide.
I guess the black variety would be purer as it has now coloring chemicals added to it? I think the whole lot wold dissolve in petrol (backing and sticky shit) so this may not work to purify it.
[This message has been edited by Anthony (edited July 16, 2001).]
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-16-2001 10:51 PM
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Yea Anthony that is the stuff that i waz thinking of!
Do u mean that pure polyisobutylene should be black?
(I have never seen the stuff)
Yea i think the sticky stuff would dissolve in the gasoline as well! this would be a big problem, since the sticky stuff would be a very large amount if u were using a lot of tape!
That's fucking gay! coz i can get shit loads of it really cheap!
Wow! i just thought of something!!!
I rember that polyisobutylene is not soluble in certain substances like : methanol, ethanol, acetone, cyclohexanone, glycerine & glycol.
So if the sticky stuff would dissolve in one of these then then it can be removed easily!
Anthony
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From: England
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posted 07-17-2001 03:35 PM
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I'm not 100% certain polyisobutylene is black, but I know butylene is black so I'm guessing it is. The sticky shit should dissolve in acetone I don't think it will in alcohol (methanol at least) because the sticky shit on gaffa tape doesmn't and I'm guessing it's a similar/the same stuff.
Tony Montana
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posted 07-17-2001 09:48 PM
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If one was to get chewing gum with polyisobutylene in it. I think it would be better to put chewing gum in a pan of boiling water to dissolve flavors, colors etc. Then I would dry it and then dissolve in gasoline. Also unless 90% of explosives manufactures dye or bleach the polyisobutylene, I am pretty sure it will be white (like Hubba Bubba left under running water).
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-17-2001 10:33 PM
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Im gona try with methylated spirits 2morrow!Hubba Bubba is bubblegum right? Has that got any polyisobutylene in it?
cutefix
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From: california
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posted 07-17-2001 10:35 PM
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Polyisobutylene(PIB) used in actual production scale manufacture of C-4 have about 120,000> molecular weight.It is cut to pieces and let dissolve in the solvent like toluene.Therefore it is solid and not pasty or sticky..It acts as a binder while the di(2-ethylhexyl)sebacate is the plasticizer.If Bazooka uses PIB also it can be the lower molecular weight type,chewing gum is sticky.If the finished C-4 is dirty white then probably one of the components is off white possibly the PIB.PIB is used also in the manufacture of Detaflex sheet explosive,and polymer with lower molecular weight form sticky material that are hard to machine into sheets .
Jumala
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From: Germany
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posted 07-17-2001 10:59 PM
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Does anyone know something about the colored plasticine (children play with it).
Plasticine with a little more softener could be used direct to mix it with RDX.
cutefix
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From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-18-2001 03:29 AM
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Simple Plasticine clay are made of microcrystalline wax,oil and grease,plus powdered clay ;it replaces ordinary moist clay made from water and clay,how can it replace the polymer polyisobutylene as binder..Plasticine may be moldable like C-4,and that’s where the similarity ends.Maybe you are insinuating a simple plastique where its just a blend of RDX,wax,oil and emulsifier?It would be interesting if you could explain further about this idea.
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-18-2001 02:59 PM
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Right just tried methylated spirits!
First it diddn't work so i put it in a boiling hot water bath for 15 mins.
The sticky shit turned a grey colour. I left it for a further 15 mins but there were no further changes!
I dryed the tape and the sticky stuff now clumps together. You can then rub it off easily with your fungers compleatly, leaving no sticky shit at all!
I still think that acetone would work better though!
mongo blongo
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From: I live in a Creosote Bush!
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posted 07-18-2001 03:27 PM
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Polyisobutylene is white to pale yellow!
Cheak these pdf files out!
http://www.exxonmobil.com/chemical/customer/products/families/butyl/vistanex/
and
http://www.scientificpolymer.com/Products/description.asp?QProductCode=682
Lagen
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From:
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posted 07-18-2001 04:43 PM
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Some professional brands of modeling clays and plastilines (like Chavant) use finely powdered sulfur instead of clay. You should make sure this would be compatible with your explosive (eg. not mix it with chlorates). Sulfur is also incompatible with HMTA, which is contained in some C4 formulations.
Tony Montana
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From: Australia
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posted 07-19-2001 03:21 AM
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Personally, I would not bother with the polyisobutylene. Heres a chapter of interest:
Improvised Munitions Black Book
Volume 3 Page 49
EXPLOSIVE FLOUR
An explosive that looks and bakes like ordinary wheat flour can be made from a mixture of flour and RDX. It can be used in many different forms as an explosive: in its dry powder form, moistened with water and used as a dough like plastic explosive, or by using special recipes it can be baked into pancakes or biscuits.
MATERIAL REQUIRED:
RDX, Flour, Large sheet of wood and a rolling pin.
PROCEDURE:
1. Place a tablespoon of RDX crystals on the large sheet of wood. Using a rolling pin, crush the crystals into a fine powder, the consistancy of flour. CAUTION:Use only a rolling pin. It is important to crush the RDX crystals into a fine powder rather than using friction between two rubbing surfaces.
2. Mix 80% by weight of powdered RDX with 20% of flour in a canning jar with a tight fitting lid by shaking for 5 minutes.
3. The mixed explosive flour can be stored in the sealed mixing container for long periods of time before using. It can also be disguised by storing it in an original bag of flour.
HOW TO USE:
1. This explosive flour is more powerful and brisant than military TNT and is easiest to detonate in its powdered form. A standard blasting cap provides sufficient shock to set it off.
2. To use as a plastic explosive, mix 4 parts by weight of flour to 1 part by weight of water. This forms a dough that has very desirable plastic qualities which can be used to mold itself around certain types of targets in the same manner as military C-4 plastic explosive. A compound detonator must be used to insure positive detonation.
3. The following recipes make it possible to bake the powdered explosive into pancake or biscuit form:
A; For pancakes the following recipe can be used:
3 cups of explosive flour
2 teaspoons of baking powder
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1 cup of milk
1 egg
2 teaspoon of melted lard
NOTE: This pancake mixture can be left on the griddle until it completely chars with no unusual effects, thus demonstrating the stability of the mixture to heat.
B: For baking powder biscuits, the following recipe can be used:
3 cups of explosive flour
2 teaspoons of baking powder
3/8 teaspoon of salt
2 teaspoons of lard
85cc or ml of water
4. The finished pancakes and biscuits look, feel and taste like the ordinary pancakes and biscuits. However, they are highly toxic and SHOULD NOT BE EATEN. Before using these baked items as an explosive, they must be moistened and kneaded into a plastic mass to remove the air spaces. They may then be exploded in the same manner as the plastic form.
cutefix
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From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-19-2001 07:01 AM
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The question is, have anybody tried this mixture and did it work?
Besides it is different topic
[This message has been edited by cutefix (edited July 19, 2001).]
CodeMason
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posted 07-19-2001 09:53 AM
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Why bother with C-4, honestly? Just make good ol' Semtex, the plasticizers can be bought from larger supermarkets! The only reason to prefer C-4 over Semtex is plasticity over a larger temperature range, which shouldn't bother too many people at all.
John456
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From:
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posted 07-19-2001 01:00 PM
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I dont know about the rest of you, but whenever i make semtex the vegetable oil soaks into the PETN just turning it into a crumbly greasy mass. It doesnt plasticize at all. What am i doing wrong?
Lagen
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From:
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posted 07-19-2001 04:14 PM
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Excuse me, but how do you know that Semtex is prepared by mixing PETN with vegetable oil? I believe that was an "invention" of somebody on this forum. For the compositions of the original Semtex made in Synthesia see http://edetonator.hyperlink.cz/Semtexy.htm (yes, the guy used a web translation program, and does not update the site anymore) or if you want to make a good substitute see Kroways' post in the Semtex thread.
stanfield
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From: FRANCE
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posted 07-19-2001 05:20 PM
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your recipe is nice, Tony Montana, but what is the detonation velocity of real C-4 and your homemade C-4 ? is there any loss of velocity ?
Secondly, is your homemade C-4 also flexible/modulable ?
John456
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From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted 07-19-2001 07:05 PM
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Doh! No wonder it hasnt worked I also tried making a plastique from:
Big Red chewing gum
PETN
Motor Oil
I dissolved 1.5 grams of Big Red (chewed for about an hour) in 25mL of petrol. It took about an hour of stirring to get it to dissolve and when it did some red dusty stuff settled to the bottom. After filtering the gas had sort of a pink color and no sediments in it. I then added about 4 drops of motor oil and 7 grams of PETN. The PETN didnt dissolve but sunk to the bottom and turned blackish. After it all evaporated it was a black mass that was sort of sticky but lost its stickiness when i rolled it around on my hands a bit. It was quite greasy too, and it went off with 1 gram of AP.
Tony Montana
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From: Australia
Registered: JUN 2001
posted 07-19-2001 09:58 PM
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Stanfield: I have never made explosive flour, nor have I made C-4, therefore cannot accurately give you an answer, except tell you that both products have high amounts of RDX as the explosive component. If you want to see if the mixture is moldable, go to your kitchen take 3 parts by weight ordinary flour and add 1 part water to it(the product will be nearly exact). Yes its very plastic!
cutefix
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From: california
Registered: MAY 2001
posted 07-20-2001 03:59 AM
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The semtex made with oil will not have plastic nature because of the absence of plasticizer.The principle of semtex and C-4 are the same ;It needs a binding material,(a polymer like rubber or polyisobutylene)plus a medium that will soften and maintain its plasticity(e.g.,ethyl hexyl sebacate+SAE 10 motor oil) and a solvent like white gas or toluene as a dispersing medium.This is just the basic principle,because its different in actual large scale production of this type of explosives(more complicated).
That explosive flour have definetly lower VOD because of lower content and density of the explosive mass.The explosive flour has a theoretical VOD of 6880 m/s.If mixed into a pancake batter it will have 53% RDX content,if baked will have 66% RDX due to moisture loss.The biscuit dough will have an estimated explosive content of 66%and when baked will have 75%RDX.If C-4 has an average RDX content of 91% and at optimum density ,it will definitely have outstanding power,than the flour based plastique,which aside from lower cyclonite content plus,the porous nature of the dough structure will lessen its density and will reflect in lower VOD which I estimate roughly between 5000-6000 m/s theoritically even if the baked product is crushed to maximize the density, versus 8000 m/s for C-4.However I’m afraid that the actual detonation velocity will be lesser in the actual test(in the vicinity of 5000m/s)Anyway that flour based plastique if it work, is the easiest and simplest to make,but will have less power than semtex or C-4.