Liquid Explosive Lockpick

[THErAPIST]

With the recent talk of liquid lock pick using MEKP I thought some experiments should be done using AP to defeat locks. I was thinking of a way to put the AP quickly into a lock when I remembered the little bowl of binder that had been seperated from the ASA in aspirin. I thought about how I could use the binder from aspirin to bind some AP into a "stick". I put some AP into a beer bottle cap and added a very small amount of the binder to it. I then added a few drops of acetone to the binder/ AP mixture and then I stirred it a little bit to mix things well. I then took some modeling clay and pushed a small divot into the modeling clay. The divot was about 1mm deep by 2mm wide and about an inch and a half long, give or take a few tenths of a mm from depth and width. I then scraped the AP/binder mixture into the divot and slightly pressed it with my finger to make sure there were no spaces in the mixture. After it dried I removed the now formed LPS or (lock-pick-stick) from its mold and inserted it into an old padlock. I inserted a length Of fuse into the lock so that it was as close to the LPS as it could be. I set the primed lock on the ground, lit the fuse, and stepped back. BANG! It was kinda loud for such a small amount of AP. When the lock was picked up and shaken after the LPS went off, things could be heard rattling around in the lock, and the lock could be opened easily by a simple turn with the tip of my picket knife. I'll take pics when I get some more HCL to make more AP.

Note: The LPS was placed as closely to the pins in the lock as possible.

Any ideas that may improve this?

[Jhonbus]

Wow, I didn't expect this to work with such a small amount of explosive. If it works, then there isn't much need for improvement in that aspect, is there ;)

Try it on a few more locks for good measure?

Ah yeah, maybe you could make moulds for the LPS by pressing various key blanks into the clay, that would maximise the amount of explosive in the lock and the proximity to the pins.
So you could have a keyring of explosive keys, just take the one that fits the lock and slip it in.

[Arthis]

Considering the number of different type of keys, it would be difficult to have all keys. A few selected usual shapes could be useful. Despite handling those unstable keys would be pretty scaring... Imagine it detonates due to friction while putting it in the hole ?

[THErAPIST]

I can imagine that having a LPS go off in your hand could be pretty painful but as of now I don't know how sensitive they are. When i make more I'll do various tests. Throw a couple, hit one with a stick, drag something over it...

[Kid Orgo]

A little while ago, a user named NeoSanity420 suggested that cyanoacrylate (the main ingredient in super glue) could be used to bind AP to desensitize it. In a WC thred, NBK, working off of the MEKP/AP idea brought up by zippoxiv, suggested that MEKP and NG could be poured into a lock and detonated as a easy way to destroy a lock.

There was discussion on sealing the lock to prevent the explosive from seeping out.

My suggestion is this: Could these two ideas be combined? A liquid solution of MEKP, NG, and superglue kept in a sealed bottle, carried to the site. Pour it into the lock, the superglue hardens the whole mess, slap a cap on it and blow it off?

Or is this complete bunk?

[nbk2000]

The only tests that matter are those of inserting the LPS into a lock and having the pins scraping the top. If it doesn't blow...:)

I would advise cutting a strip of very thin plastic and attaching it to the top of the LPS. This would protect the LPS from pin friction and possible premature functioning (blowing off your fingers). Possibly, a wax coating by dipping it in melted wax would also help prevent friction initation.

http://nbk2000.freeyellow.com/LPS1_WM.gif

Also, most keyways are not straight slots, but have bends to them. This would make trying to cast an LPS in the same shape as the real key rather impractical.
RTPB "K.I.S.S."

http://nbk2000.freeyellow.com/LPS2_WM.gif

Rather than casting a complicated shape, just make a generic booster stick. This would be of the same width as the target keyway, and sized to fit into the lower half of the keyway, while the LPS fits in the top part with the pins.

You would place the fuse in the gap created by the bend in the keyway, with the LPS up top, and the booster underneath, and seal the whole assembly with a blob of clay or some other tamping material to direct as much of the blast into the lock assembly as possible.

What about using it as a paste? The AP would be very finely powered and mixed with a bit of binder material and MEKP solvent into a thick paste and stored in a syringe. The fuse is placed into the lock, and the paste injected till it fills the lock, then tamped and blown.

You're obviously not going to be using a syringe needle to do this, nor are you going to be storing this paste for months ahead of time, or subjecting the syringe plunger to any sudden whacks, so I dont' think there'd be any serious risks of the mix exploding in the syringe.

You could reduce the risk by using an extension on the plunger so your hand isn't holding it. If it explodes, there's nothing but some very light plastic fragments being propelled by a gram or two of explosive more than a foot from you. You might get some scratches and ringing ears at worst.

[Tuatara]

I'd imagine the cyanoacrylate would harden immediately when mixed with MEKP and NG. Its an anaerobic adhesive - cures in the absence of oxygen.

[Kid Orgo]

What I was thinking was that the MEKP/NG would be mixed in an anaerobic envt with the glue, perhaps injected into the glue bottle through the tip? Then again, it might not be particularly wise to put that mixture into a syringe. Any thoughts?

Perhaps there's a better glue to put it. Or a two part epoxy-like solution, wherein each would be injected seperately into the lock in a MEKP/NG mix.

[zippoxiv]

The need for a MEKP/NG mix might not be present. Nbk2000 mentioned the loose tolerances with a padlock, and I can say from experience that when filling it with a liquid it will seep in and find a lot more room than needed. The results can be called overkill at least... THErAPIST and his lock pick stick idea may not be enough to bust into some of the more stubborn of padlocks so a happy medium would be nice.

The idea of a binder to make the mix more viscous is a good one, it would allow for one to limit the charge to only what was necessary (well maybe a bit more than necessary :rolleyes: ). The problem with trying to limit the amount of liquid explosive inserted is that it tends to flow away from the keyway, and into the farthest corner it can find, this creates a scenario where you may not get a detonation unless you fill it up enough to ensure contact between the fuse and compound. A gel like or even creamy consistency would be nice, the amount of binder could be high because there is lots of room to fill, and not too much bang needed.

From what I have heard, NG is one of the most powerful explosives around, so there is definitely not a need to bring in that kind of power. As I stated on the AP pennies thread, the MEKP/AP solution will reduce a #5 masterlock to a pile of plates and a shackle. If anyone needs more proof just tell me where I can post some pics and I'll present nice before and after shots. I may even take up a geocities account just for that reason, although if I could do it by some easier method that would be nice.

[zippoxiv]

I'm surprised nobody suggested AP putty as a solution, the NC binder would be more energetic than the starch used to bind the aspirin. Still fuse sensitive and a bit more resistant to friction the NC bonded AP could fit the bill.

The need to have the exact blank for the lock would not be too tricky assuming that before you blow the lock, you at least take the time to recon the area a bit. A key ring of explosive keys is out of the question, but a hard case filled with foam would be useful to hold 3 or 4 different styles of masterlock keys. The hard plastic style "Pelican" cases come to mind, they are waterproof and quite durable, although you pay for the quality. They come in a variety of sizes, even ones appropriate for a cell phone.

The idea of casting a key is not exactly a recent development, but this is the first time the topic of casting a key out of explosives has come up. The CIA Field-expedient key casting manual comes to mind if one wanted to put some time into the concept. Your exposure time at the scene will be reduced if you have already scouted out to find out what type of lock it is, and all you need to do is stick in a homemade blank key made of AP putty rather than mess with gels and syringes and the such. For an all purpose solution I use the simple MEKP/AP mix, if planning is called for then taking the time to make the mold, cast the key, and do the job right is worth the payoff.

[Kid Orgo]

Overkill might be the way to go, however. If I were conducting a raid on some well fortified location, I would want speed and effectiveness as the primary attributes of any solution to the lock problem. Squirt it in, slap a cap on it, step around the corner, and WHAMMO.

You have a good point tho, if an injectible foaming high explosive mix could be made, that would be cool. That's just a first reaction, however. No idea how the science of that would work.

[Nihilist]

If you already have a mold of the key for the lock, why not just make your own key and open it that way?.. It's pefectly silent, much safer, and faster.

[Kid Orgo]

Why attack a lock at the key hole? Why not mold the putty around the part of the lock that is a simple steel hoop, and break it?

That lockpick stick, if properly made and standardized might definitely be more useful than a bottle of NG and MEKP dissolved in some sort of glue. I just thought about how great it would be to try kicking down a door or something with a bottle of unstable high-explosive on my back.

[nbk2000]

And what's the purpose of the glue?

To keep the liquid explosive from pouring out.

Therefore, use a thickner, not an adhesive, to hold it in place.

One very ready thickner is the PIB used in poster putty, better known as "Blu-Tak", though it can be any color really.

Search!

I just had to say that before you asked "How do I...". It's already been highly detailed.

Use a low percentage of PIB to thicken the liquid to a snot-like thickness and squirt it in the hole. I'm assuming a person isn't going to be taking hours between squirting the stuff in and blowing the lock, correct? If it stays in place for 120 seconds, that's likely more time than needed to do the job. :)

BTW, it's nice to now have an OTC source for PIB. Now I just need to find an OTC source for TEA and I'll really be rockin'! :D

[THErAPIST]

It's nice to see that people have taken an interest in this topic. Peroxide is being boiled to a useful percentage as of now so that tests can be carried out tomorrow with AP LPS's. NBK, I will test the plastic lining tomorrow. To anyone who has any PA or PETN or the like lying around, would you mind testing the booster stick? I at the moment can't make any PA to test this. I think I MIGHT have some PA in a jar but I'm not about to go out into the woods at night to see if I do. Also, Would anyone like to try to make a LPS with another primary? DDNP could have benefits over AP since it has a higher velocity and slightly better brisance. We all also know that DDNP can be stored for longer periods of time than AP so it would be the better thing for a LPS. I would greatly appreciate any teamwork that can be done on this. I would do all the testing myself but I have a VERY limited budget for the next few weeks. But I'm still trying to throw some ideas into the wind here and there to see how they fly.

EDIT: To Kid Orgo. Attacking the keyhole in a lock would be better than attacking the shackle on a lock for a number of reasons. The shackle is MUCH thicker and MUCH stronger than the pins in the tumbler. Another reason is because it would take less explosive to break the pins which would mean less noise and the like. Would You rather carry around more explosive to make a god awful bang, or less explosive to make a somewhat loud bang which could be tamped and muffled far better than the larger amoung of explosive? I would usually say that more is better when it somes to explosives just to ensure that the job would be done, but in this case it's a better idea to go with the elementary school rule about glue... "A little dab will do ya". :D

[nbk2000]

Since the two threads were convergent, I've joined them to simplify discussion.

[zippoxiv]

wow.. yeah the joining of the threads happened when i was in the middle of formating my post, I'll just post as is, too late to go through makeing changes.

alright... a few things to clear up...

Nihilist: the idea was that you would only be able to eye up the lock itself, not the key. If you could narrow down the brand and style of lock, you could most likely go to Kmart or the such and take a look at their selection of blank keys that would fit the bill... but of course if one could manage to borrow the key, make a few measurements, they could easily produce a key from a soft metal or ever plastic.

All you need the key for is to set the pins and allow the mechanism to turn, I have accomplished this with cutting up a CD into .25 inch strips (or any other standard key size) and using a file to cut the individual teeth. If you sand down the plastic strip thin enough it will bend its way into pretty much any twisty keyway, and if it is a simple Masterlock or house key mimicking the tooth pattern is not difficult. You simply have to measure the distance between pins as well as the height each pin is set at (distance of the tooth from the baseline.) Most low security keys only have pin heights that go in 1/64 or even 1/32 inch increments, knowing this you could even develop an eye for the needed offset.

Its a lot easier when you can work with the key, file, and lock all at one time, so practice with your house key to get the hang of it. simply use the plastic key mockup to set the pins and turn the lock with a screwdriver, you should be close enough to be able to open it w/ a bit of force.


and wow.. Kid Orgo... I sure hope by "simple steel hoop" you don't mean the 3/8 inch hardened steel shackle because then bring on the best HE you can make for a LSC because that fucker isn't going anywhere fast. The main theory to defeat locks is to go for the weakest part.. that is if they buy a 20$ super strong masterlock but attach it to a 3$ latch just use a pipe wrench to hook onto the lock, and get the leverage to twist the lock off. I can assure you the weakest point will almost never be the hardened steel shackle. The reason the MEKP/AP solution is so effective is because it is placed on the inside, an exterior placed charge with the hopes of defeating the shackle is simply laughable... you would have an easier time, and probably more fun blowing a hole in the wall and making your own door (it also does have its tactical advantages).

With the small room to work with you are almost always forced to use sensitive explosives. The idea of going to a booster type charge is a getting more complicated thatn neciscary. Simple primaries get the job done. And kid orgo I as well would not be too quick to kick down a door with such things on my body, but I'm not sure why your kicking down the door after you just blew the lock but to each his own... Some common sense is all that is needed though, carry the charge to the site and be careful not to trip, remove the lock, and set any leftover explosives to the side. Unless your plan on running into another lock why not just dump what you have leftover, or if your supplies are limited let them sit a safe distance away while you get done what you need to do.

As a final note, I threw a before and after set of the latest lock I did away with, here (http://www.geocities.com/zippo1620/pic.html)
if that doesnt work just copy and paste... http://www.geocities.com/zippo1620/pic.html

Thats the result of a MEKP/AP mix, I took the time to weigh the ratio and weigh how much charge I used, but the paper is eluding me right now... I'll look for it in the morning if there is a need.

Edit: nbk, the pics were from my 3.21 mp digital camera, I'm thankful I took them down from the 800kb size they started as. I used paint shop pro 7 by Jasc software to compress them by about 80%, although you seem to like photoshop I havnt had the time to take on that massive of a download. I would compress them even more but you allready did that for me, thanks

[Kid Orgo]

NBK: I wasn't going to ask. I have found the search button, thanks to the example of countless kewls who couldn't.

TheRapist: Very good point. I was thinking in terms of reliably opening the lock, like, doing it for sure every time (and, as you said, in the proccess making a huge mess/noise). If you use enough explosive to really fuck up it's innards, it really is the better way to do so.

Zippo: I was talking more in a general way. A person getting into a building that is fortified would have a lot of physical work on their hands, and a bottle of high-explosive isn't exactly something I would play volleyball with. But you're right, with the right precautions, you'd be okay.

And as for the shackle, I was being slow

NBK: My bad. I'll stop posting for a while. For the record, i'm down with a killer case of strep and bored as fuck. .

[nbk2000]

It seems like the best thing to do would be to use the two ideas together.

You would inject a gel made from one of the below listed explosives into the lock, filling it as much as possible, prior to inserting the detonator. The liquid explosive would be of such viscosity that it wouldn't drip out of a vertical hole (like a hanging padlock) for at least two minutes.

listed in approximate order of power

MEKP+PIB

MEKP/AP+PIB

MEKP/NG+PIB

NM/Amine+PIB

NG+PIB

NG/PETN (paste)

NG/NC (gel)

Making a detonator small enough to fit into a lock keyway would be difficult. So use a detonator made from AP putty in the form of a tapered stick. It would be a very slightly tapered blade, that would be slid into a keyway. It has a five second delay fuse cast into it.

You light the fuse of the detonator stick, take a step around the corner, and BANG! goes the lock. :)

The booster isn't a secondary, but more AP putty, to "boost" the explosive force applied against the lock by utilizing all available volume of keyway to hold explosive.

Setting off the explosion inside of the lock utilizes the confinment of the lock body to amplify the explosive effect of what might be only a half gram of explosive. The insides of a lock are meant to be moved, thus they are vulnerable to sudden shocking.

Trying to shatter the shackle would be much more difficult since there is no confinement, the shackle is solid steel with no voids, and would require much more explosive.

Also, you won't have access to a shackle if it's a door or safe lock.

Not that it's very likely that you'd encounter one, but the types of locks used in prisons (Foster-Miller) are massive and would be pretty invulnerable to anything less than a half-pound of HE.

However, these locks are made from welded steel plates, and have a lot of hollow space in them with fat keyways you could use to squirt stuff into the locks guts. An ounce of explosive inside the lock would rupture it without spraying shrapnel everywhere.

+++++++++++++

Kid Orgo:

Since you didn't seem to read this post (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=38706#post38706), I'm including it here.

Stop...just stop...you're becoming annoying.

You're post whoring.

And bringing up old threads just to add your little say is REALLY annoying.

Restrict yourself to two replies per day for the next week, regardless of section. This will force you to prioritize your responses to something (hopefully) worth hearing, rather than the trivial crap you've been posting so far.

As a newbie, you haven't shown that you've got things worth listening to yet, so you're not in the position to be replying with trivial shit, not having already established your worth like respected members have.

++++++++++++++++

PS: Edit your post to include additional information if it's the last one in the topic and is only FIVE minutes old. ONLY post a new reply (if your's is the last one in an old thread) IF you have additional information to add.

This is another rule I have to write down...

[nbk2000]

For everyone else who doesn't enjoy burning up 4 minutes of pre-paid dialup to download three 100K pictures, I've attached them (in a greatly reduced size) in a 138K zip file.

This isn't a slam against you zippoxiv, since we greatly appreciate people posting pictures of their experiments...HOWEVER...there are some things that we greatly appreciate people doing before they post pictures of their experiments.

This is athe rule I forgot to type up, so you're fine, rules not being retroactively applied.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

When posting pictures, use a photo editing program like photoshop or paintshop, to crop and resize your pictures to minimize their size. Not everyone who visits The Forum has the broadband, nor time, to waste while waiting for your masterpiece of photographic art, that would surely make Ansel Adams bow before you, to download your pictures.

Crop out the background that has no relevence, resize so it'll fit in a browser screen without having to scroll around (under 640x480. 1300x800 is TOO big.), and save it in the format appropriate to the type of picture it is. If it's a computer graphic or screenshot, then it's a .GIF. If it's a photograph of a real-world place or object, then it's a .JPG.

For .GIF, use the lowest number of colors possible, while preserving as much of the colors as needed to make it viewable.

For .JPG, use the lowest quality possible that presents the information that the picture is intended to convey, while being of a high enough quality that the "blockiness" is minimal.

The ONLY time a 150Kb, 1200x800 pic would be apropriate, would be when it is of a circuit board, micro-organism, tiny mechanical device, or something else of such small and refined detail that very high resolution is required to properly display the item, and ONLY if such high resolution is required for the purpose of duplication/analysis/identification.

If it's a picture of a broken circuit you found in the garbage, and you're posting a picture of it so we can see that you did indeed find a broken circuit board, then we don't need to be able to zoom in and read the values of the resistors from 10 feet away.

It is NOT appropriate for showning a hole in the ground. We don't need to be able to zoom in 20x to count the number of worms you killed in the process of making the hole. Nor do we need to see what the clouds looked like that day, nor the number of people standing next to the hole. These are extraneous details that must be removed so as to save everyone the bandwidth they'd otherwise be wasting.

If you have a site where you are posting your pictures at, and there's a large number of them, then please have the courtesy of posting a thumbnail version, or contact sheet, of them, so we can quickly identify which ones are of interest to us, and skip those that we could care less.

This not only saves OUR time, but also saves YOUR bandwidth, since we're not downloading your entire photo directory to find out that only 1 of your 20 pics was of any interest to us.

++++++++++++++++++++++

And, since I was at it, I added a thumbnail index to DBSP's pictures on making an SC cone, and THErAPISTS AP charges. Therapists (I'm tires of alternating caps) pics are nice and small, but rather dark. DBSP has very clear pictures, but they're too large.

Practice guys, practice. Remember, photoshop is our friend. ;) And please make use of the thumb index. :)

[Titanium]

Could you use som kind of glue instead of the aspirin binder?... Like wood-glue or super-glue?

THErAPIST :
This is just what i need now.. I have been trying to pick locks for a while now, and this will make it so much faster to do. Thanks!

[THErAPIST]

Well Titanium, I can actually pick locks pretty quickly as ive been playin with lockpicks for the last year or so... But I just thought that explosives would be a more fun way to open the lock :D

Ok so a few hours ago after I had my runaway AP reaction that spit acid into my eyes. I finally got around to filtering my batch of AP that didnt try to kill me. I tried the LPS and guess what... IT DIDN'T FUCKING WORK! Why I don't know. I think it was due to the fact that the last LPS was much larger and it was just shoved it into the keyhole instead of cut to the right size and such.. BUT I have thought of a way to defeat any kind of lock (with a few exceptions).

First one would take a piece of masking tape and lie it sticky side up on a table. Second one would put a respectable size of primary on one half of the tape. Third one would put a length of fuse in the middle of the tape and the tape would be folded in half. VOILA, flexible LPS. You should be able to stick this into any keyhole, no matter the shape (unless its one of those locks on a suitcase that could be bitten in half). I havent yet tried this yet, and I wil have to get another lock and some masking tape before I do, as I packed the last lock with AP after the failed LPS and blew it to shit... Kickin myself in the ass for that now.

[nbk2000]

By "didn't work" do you mean it didnt' explode, it didn't destroy the lock, or the lock wasn't able to be opened by turning the cylinder? Clarify please.

Also, it might be that this lock is more solidly built than the first one you blew up, so it might not be a failure of the LPS, but rather using the wrong tool for the job.

As for a batch of AP spitting acid in your eyes...safety googles...ever hear of them? I know they're a new fangled idea, but I think they might actually worth wearing. ;) :p

[THErAPIST]

When I said didn't work I meant that it didnt sound as loud as the first LPS and it didn't seem to do anything at all to the lock. This LPS was slightly smaller in comparrison to the last one mainly because I was trying to make it more square and smaller to cut down on friction. The last LPS was just shoved into the lock because it was a little too big. Maybe I'll just stick to making them bigger.
Also, I have goggles but have never had a runaway when making AP so I stopped wearing them. I Don't think the goggles would have done too much for me anyways. Most goggles that I've seen have small holes in then towards the bottom so that they don't fog up, but the acid was in more of a vapor like state instead of a droplet state, which was blown into my face. I think the vapor probably would have went in through the vent holes and still got to me. I assure you I didn't have my eyes open for very long. They got closed the instant I felt the wind hit my face because I knew what would happen if I didn't close em. I just closed em too late to do myself much good.

[Nihilist]

Titanium, the binder used in aspirin is simply starch(i'm almost positive but not 100%) which you can of course buy at any grocery store, and probably already have. So there is no need for other binders though I would think that super glue would be fine if there was a compelling reason to use it, seeing as it would be rather messy.

[nbk2000]

Having gotten a look at the pictures of the lock you (zippoxiv) blew up, I see that it's the warded, not a pin tumbler, type of lock. These locks have a very large internal volume, much larger than that present in a pinned lock, allowing for a much larger volume of explosive to be inserted into the body of the lock.

This explains why your lock was disintegrated, while therapists lock was still intact.

For a warded lock like this, explosives are overkill, for simply grinding off all but the last bit of the key would allow you to open any master lock of the same size and style. And, considering how these are $3 locks, they can't really be expected to be very secure now, eh?

Now, if you can defeat the kinds of locks found on this page:

http://www.insight-security.com/pf11-1.htm

then you're doing something good. :)

[Mr Cool]

I wonder how easy/hard it might be to shatter the U-shaped bit of metal on a padlock? Obviously it'll be hard with a hammer, but this isn't a hammer forum :).
If you've got about a billion watts per square centimetre from a little block of HE, I have a feeling that all but perhaps the best of locks would break, especially since hard alloys tend to be brittle alloys.
A blob of modelling clay could be used to hold the charge in place and have some tamping effect.

[-=HeX=-]

Sorry about yet another bout of necromancy! But I have info to add. At the start of the thread THErAPIST said he would do friction tests on the explosive lockpicks, well, seeing no results, I did some.

Inserting into the lock roughly produced no detonation.
Snapping the LPS produced no det. Scraping of floor (concrete), no det.
Scraping LPS off sandpaper, lead to a full detonation.

These on their own can destroy most Tri-Circle and Master padlocks in tests, by destroy I mean allow you to open with screwdriver.

House locks, however, required the 2 gram TNP booster stick, and then were either destroyed, or openable.

As for liquid explosive, I believe that Isopropryl Nitrate, in a 10 ml syringe that is wrapped in AP putty (I will make one and take a pic soon) which is fused would be good: stick syringe in keyhole, press plunger, light fuse, run.
The fuse would be Microtek's 'Promised Fuse' or KMnO4, S and silicone fuse.

THErAPIST, have you experimented further on this topic, or can you do so, for your idea is very good, as I cannot do many more experiments for the forseeable future due to the BT Young Scientist of The Year competition and the Junior Cert. :(

[Man Down Under]

When performing necromancy, it's always a good idea to know how stale the corpse is.

THErAPIST, Last Activity: January 30th, 2006 04:51 PM

2 years? I don't think he's going to answer you any time soon. :p

[Alexires]

But thank you HeX for actually experimenting with these things. Any chance of a picture or video of your experiments on different types of locks?

Also, perhaps you could give an assessment as to the effectiveness on high security locks such as those mentioned by NBK 2 posts earlier (can't find an active link though).

I don't think necromancy is a problem if the person actually adds something to the conversation.

[Man Down Under]

http://www.insight-security.com/padlocks.htm seems to be what NBK was referring to.

[-=HeX=-]

Hmmm... I didn't see that bit...
Alexires: Due to lack of camera and lack of funds I cannot take any pics any time soon. However, come March and I will have both time, a camera and the cash to do tests. Maybe I will do a test on such a lock. I will take pics ASAP though.

[Rbick]

Perhaps PLX could be used for this function as well? I did some tests back during the summer on PLX in large drinking draws and soaked in lengths of cloth. I think the critical diameter for 95% NM and 5% TETA (triethylenetetramine) is 1/16th of an inch. I had quite a bit of success with the drinking straw method.

The only problem I encountered was the need for a powerful booster to successfully initiate the PLX. I needed at least 1g ETN with .5g AP to get it to work, sometimes having failed dets. Perhaps the addition of Al to the mix would improve sensitivity?

An interesting patent you guys may want to check out is patent 3,713,915 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=3,713,915.PN.&OS=PN/3,713,915&RS=PN/3,713,915). They talk about the use of sensitized NM to seep into the cracks of old wells and detonated to "open" the wells up. These cracks could be replaced with "key hole".

The actually addition of Al to PLX type explosive would take a little more work. If added to a simple amine/NM mixture, the Al would float to the bottom. I believe Styrofoam, NC, or smokeless powder can be used to thicken the mixture as to suspend the Al in the mix.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

There are a few basic challenges to this whole subject. The first one is the focus of the force of the energy. By very definition the liquid explosive flows.....to accomplish work one must have focus of the energy.
The second is that most energetic secondaries have a critical mass that needs to exist of they won't shoot; at least at their expected level of speed & strength.

NG had been used for many decades to open safes, etc. The reason was it's ability to shoot at low levels of volume. But to FOCUS the energy to do work is a whole science in itself. {There was actually some training recorded to neutralize NG that had not detonated in attempts at burglary. The thief would make a mess and run off and the owner of the safe or whatever was left with an unsafe safe. A trained individual would then have to neutralize the NG and clean up.} It's not easy to focus that liquid to do the work necessary.

A plasticized material could be made into a shaped charge cone to direct energy; this is common knowledge. But realistically, so could any directed energy be substituted (an electric drill is faster & easier). Within the safe-locksmithing venue there are whole collections of drill bits designed to do the work necessary in a very fast, efficient manner. {But that's not the subject and not that fun.}

Simply from a discussion standpoint, the secondary would probably need to be something like nitroglycol (with a VERY simple detonator like a blob of azide on the end of a E-match) and the system would entail "dam-building" with some glycol resistant mold-able material. The force would need to be focused not only to shatter the mechanism but to provide access to manipulate the left-overs.

[Alexires]

Another possibility is the use of a linear shaped charge (SC) to cut whatever the lock is attached to. It is common that a high security lock is attached to something that could be cut with bolt cutters. This is just taking it to the next level.

I was actually thinking about this last night. When I have a little more time for experimentation, I would like to start "cutting" my way through various common materials (brick, shed tin, chain, etc.) and investigating the damaged to things inside, as well as "lock picking" (if shredding a lock with explosive can be called that).

COP certainly has the question of focus and critical diameter right thought.

Just by thinking about it, I would think that disabling a lock without making it inoperable would be quite difficult with explosives. High pressure moulding of metals and the high velocities alone would make things difficult to say the least.

Also, investigation into a "hush box" (for lack of a better name) might come in handy with this particular application of explosives. Simply, how to quieten the sound of detonation so that people around don't hear it, or if they do, they cannot tell which direction it came from.