megalomania
June 25th, 2003, 04:45 PM
jam007
A new voice
Posts: 36
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 01, 2001 09:09 PM
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ok in the nitration proces of rdx it sais that it needs nitric acid free of nitrogen oxides so how do i eliminate this oxides after making it from ammonia bubbled into water????
PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:06 AM
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Could you be more concise I don't see the point: RDX or HNO3 made from ammonia bubbled trough water?????? Maybe some more readings couldn't hut you!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:09 AM
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But if you really mean what I guess:
urea is the key to your problem.
NH2-C=O-NH2 gives urea nitrate what react whit the NxOy leading to HNO3, H2O, CO2 and N2!!!!!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
SafetyLast
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Posts: 233
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 04:13 PM
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hey jam007 don't you mean heating ammonium nitrate and bubbling N2O gas into water?
you should just do a search on nitric acid there are a few topics about it already.
I think red and white HNO3 can be used (concentration must be above 80%) also which process will you be using? I suggest either the K process or the W process.
Mr Cool
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Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:58 AM
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Philou: you've confused me! In the little formula you wrote, the carbon only makes 3 bonds, and the oxygen also makes 3! What's going on?! I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't see how it works. Is it like in the ammonium ion, where the N is bonded to 4 H's?
PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 16, 2001 08:51 AM
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Yeah NH2-CO-NH2 is actually H2N-C(O)-NH2 or (H2N)2C=O; it is a formalism of organic chemistry to write things like NH3 HN3 HNO3 CO2 and not like O2C H3N N3H or O3NH....you just have to live with that!I have written it NH2-C=O-NH2 so that everybody can see it is a cetolike form....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
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Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 16, 2001 03:37 PM
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Ahh, I see now. That makes a lot more sense!
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1135
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 17, 2001 04:21 PM
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OH __// / \ = C H OH = C7H6O \__/ 6 5
Which one is easier to write and still get across the structure?
Pop quiz hot shot, what's AcH and MeOH stand for?
As far as nitric from ammonia through water, I thinks he's referring to the catalyzed breakdown of ammonia into nitric oxides, which are then bubbled through the water to form nitric acid.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited February 17, 2001).]
Mr Cool
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From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 18, 2001 07:27 AM
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Well, C6H5OH (yes, I know the numbers should be subscript but it doesn't seem to be working on my comp. for some reason) is the easiest to write while still getting the formula accross because it makes it clear that there's a hydroxyl group, although it could be some kind of unsaturated alcohol I guess, because you can't tell that it contains the benzene ring from just the formula. C6H6O could be loads of things, and the structural formula is just too time consuming to write.
As for the AcH and MeOH, I have no idea (or were you talking to Philou?). I suppose the MeOH could be methylamine hydroxide or something, and the AcH could be acetyl hydride. But I've never used those abbreviations before so I don't know.
He would need to react the ammonia with oxygen with a catalyst to form water and nitrogen monoxide, and then dissolve the nitrogen monoxide with oxygen into water to form nitric acid
4NH3 + 5O2 ->(??iron catalyst??)-> 6H2O + 4NO
4NO + 3O2 + 2H2O -> 4HNO3
PHILOU Zrealone
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Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 14, 2001 11:29 AM
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MeOH is methyl-hydroxyde or methyl-ol and thus it is methanol CH3-OH an hybrid form often used in org. chem. between chemical formula and written name.
So does AcH; it is acetic protonated thus acetic acid (or more conveniently ethanoic acid CH3-CO2-H (Ac= CH3-CO2(-)))
A new voice
Posts: 36
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 01, 2001 09:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok in the nitration proces of rdx it sais that it needs nitric acid free of nitrogen oxides so how do i eliminate this oxides after making it from ammonia bubbled into water????
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you be more concise I don't see the point: RDX or HNO3 made from ammonia bubbled trough water?????? Maybe some more readings couldn't hut you!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 02, 2001 09:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you really mean what I guess:
urea is the key to your problem.
NH2-C=O-NH2 gives urea nitrate what react whit the NxOy leading to HNO3, H2O, CO2 and N2!!!!!
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
SafetyLast
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: the cretaceous period
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 02, 2001 04:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey jam007 don't you mean heating ammonium nitrate and bubbling N2O gas into water?
you should just do a search on nitric acid there are a few topics about it already.
I think red and white HNO3 can be used (concentration must be above 80%) also which process will you be using? I suggest either the K process or the W process.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 03, 2001 11:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philou: you've confused me! In the little formula you wrote, the carbon only makes 3 bonds, and the oxygen also makes 3! What's going on?! I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't see how it works. Is it like in the ammonium ion, where the N is bonded to 4 H's?
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 16, 2001 08:51 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah NH2-CO-NH2 is actually H2N-C(O)-NH2 or (H2N)2C=O; it is a formalism of organic chemistry to write things like NH3 HN3 HNO3 CO2 and not like O2C H3N N3H or O3NH....you just have to live with that!I have written it NH2-C=O-NH2 so that everybody can see it is a cetolike form....
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 16, 2001 03:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahh, I see now. That makes a lot more sense!
nbk2000
Moderator
Posts: 1135
From: Guess
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 17, 2001 04:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH __// / \ = C H OH = C7H6O \__/ 6 5
Which one is easier to write and still get across the structure?
Pop quiz hot shot, what's AcH and MeOH stand for?
As far as nitric from ammonia through water, I thinks he's referring to the catalyzed breakdown of ammonia into nitric oxides, which are then bubbled through the water to form nitric acid.
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"
Go here to download the NBK2000 website PDF.
[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited February 17, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 18, 2001 07:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, C6H5OH (yes, I know the numbers should be subscript but it doesn't seem to be working on my comp. for some reason) is the easiest to write while still getting the formula accross because it makes it clear that there's a hydroxyl group, although it could be some kind of unsaturated alcohol I guess, because you can't tell that it contains the benzene ring from just the formula. C6H6O could be loads of things, and the structural formula is just too time consuming to write.
As for the AcH and MeOH, I have no idea (or were you talking to Philou?). I suppose the MeOH could be methylamine hydroxide or something, and the AcH could be acetyl hydride. But I've never used those abbreviations before so I don't know.
He would need to react the ammonia with oxygen with a catalyst to form water and nitrogen monoxide, and then dissolve the nitrogen monoxide with oxygen into water to form nitric acid
4NH3 + 5O2 ->(??iron catalyst??)-> 6H2O + 4NO
4NO + 3O2 + 2H2O -> 4HNO3
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 14, 2001 11:29 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MeOH is methyl-hydroxyde or methyl-ol and thus it is methanol CH3-OH an hybrid form often used in org. chem. between chemical formula and written name.
So does AcH; it is acetic protonated thus acetic acid (or more conveniently ethanoic acid CH3-CO2-H (Ac= CH3-CO2(-)))