megalomania
June 26th, 2003, 11:24 AM
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 196
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 09, 2001 09:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before anyone gets started; I did do a search, both here and on the net.
Has anyone got a list of the base and primary charges ( type and amount ) in caps corresponding to their number?
As I stated in the opening, I tried to find it on the net, but any search-words I can think of give thousands of matches, or none at all. And on this forum searching for "cap" will not narrow the search down very much.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 09, 2001 03:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey good question i wanna know that also.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 196
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 11, 2001 07:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If nobody knows this, why are there so many references to #6 and #8 caps in the posts?
It's not a lot to type in.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 11, 2001 10:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the information we need on a web page in some European language. I couldn't understand all the writing, but it was obvious what they were talking about. I'll see if the site is in the cache on my comp., and if not I'll have a look for it.
Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 293
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 12:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't you use an online transalator to decipher the text ?
jin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
From: uk
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 07:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
blasting caps are manufactured in several strengths,the most common being the no 6,no 8 and the special military.each is about twice as powerful as the preceding cap.the no 6 will detonate common dynamites but not military expolsivesthe no 8 will detonate pressed tnt such as military demoliton blocks but not cast tnt.the special military cap will detonate any expolsive that can be detonated by a blasting cap and was especially made for plastic expolsives.
i think amount of expolsives used in the caps is in the blackbook 2or3
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 09:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
download improvised primary explosive, there's cap 8 and 6 there
eg. 1 g Acetone peroxide with bla-bla confinement is # 8 cap
[This message has been edited by frostfire (edited March 11, 2001).]
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 442
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 09:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could only find the amounts for mercury fulminate caps.
No.1, 0.30 gms.
No.2, 0.40 gms
No.3, 0.54 gms.
No.4, 0.65 gms.
No.5, 0.80 gms.
No.6, 1.00 gms.
No.7, 1.50 gms.
No.8, 2.00 gms.
Most of the specifications I have seen for compound caps use from .5 to 1.0 gram primary and 1.0 gram base charge.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 12, 2001 01:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shit! I've been calling my caps roughly #8, and they normally have around 2g HMTD AND 2g picric acid! These detonate just about anything.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 442
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 13, 2001 12:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea, I would think so!
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 17, 2001 12:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instead of wasting Forum space and starting a new thread, an ole dummy wanted to add something. I found an excellent method for creating blasting cap shells. The Corbin Company manufactures a set of dies for the production 5.56mm bullet jackets from spent 22 cal. rimfire shells. The dies, mounted in a reloading press, push the spent case through the first die, smoothing out and removing the rim (also lengthing the case). I lengthened the die punch and used spent 22 magnum cases. They are excellent for light charges. Next I will turn a new punch with a conical cavity and a stop pin with matching blunt point. This will produce a shaped charge effect from the base charge optimizing the cap. These units will crimp perfectly on standard time fuse. Cannon fuse will require a ferrule.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 18, 2001 01:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 grams AP ~ 1 gram of PETN, I've heard.
outsider
Frequent Poster
Posts: 91
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 18, 2001 02:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I checked T.L. Davis for it because I think there's where 10fingers got his information from, and it says: "The original fulminate detonators were numbered according to the amount of fulminate they contained along with the usual dimensions of the cylindrical copper capsules. The same numbers are applied to commercial blasting caps of the same size whatever the weight and characters of the charges. A no. 6 cap for example is a cap of the same size as one which contains 1 gram of straight fulminate (diameter 6mm, length 35 mm). No. 6 caps of different manufacturers may differ in their power as they differ in their composition"
And elsewhere: "A no. 8 blasting cap containing 2 grams of mercury fulminate can be replaced, for use in detonating explosives, by a no. 8 copper capsule containing 1 gram of picric acid on top which 0.023 gram of silverazide has been compressed."
So this means: a commercial no. 6 cap contains about 1 gram of secundary high explosive (most likely PETN). Which can be replaced by 2.5 gram mercuryfulminate (PETN=150% compared to TNT and picric acid=120%). And mercuryfulminate and AP can be considered of equal power, so a no. 6 cap can be replaced by 2.5-3 gram of AP.
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 24, 2001 08:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've managed to find on the subject, detonators were originally classed by the number of *grains* of mercury fulminate they contained, with the cap number corresponding to that content. There being no industry standard, things became more and more arbitrary as other substances were substituted, until the number almost has no significance except in relative terms.
Gerald Hurst has the following to say:
From: glhurst@onr.com (Gerald L. Hurst)
Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives
Subject: Re: Electronic detonators?
Date: 3 Jan 1998 18:46:14 GMT
Back in the 1960s and earlier, the #6 cap was the industry standard based
on common use with the highly sensitive nitrglycerin explosives common
at the time. Number 8 caps were then widely used only in the seismic
industry. The premier seismic cap was the duPont SSS which was
strong enough to initiate C-4 with reasonable certainty if one was careful
to set the cap in good contact. Seismic caps had stronger shells and could
withstand hydrostatic pressures up to as much as 10,000 psi. The SSS
cap had a dimpled end which functioned as a miniature shaped charge.
The dimple had no effect on initiating ability but probably increased the
pressure resistance of the casing.
The number 8 cap became more common in response to the need for
stronger initiation when using water-based explosives and cast primers
which usually contained too little sensitizing RDX or PETN in the blends
with TNT. In those days the conventional wisdom was that military
detonators were about twice as strong as commercial #8s. This was not
quite true because the #6 then typically contained about 6 grains of base
charge, slightly less than half that of the military "engineer specials."
As water gels and emulsions proliferated, #8s became stronger and for
all practical purposes equivalent to the military detonators.
The numbering system for caps using modern HEX was certainly somewhat
arbitrary and depended on who was making the cap and in what country.
"Standard" blasting caps were made in all numeric strengths up to at least
#12 for sensitivity testing but only #6 and #8 were available commercially
except by special order. Of course, there was no single standard which
was universally accepted.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you want is the Improvised Primary Explosives PDF from angelo's site. It lists the equivalent amounts of IPE's to commercial caps. E.g:
Acetone Peroxide
Equivalence:
1gram = No. 8 cap
0.75g = No. 6 cap
Frequent Poster
Posts: 196
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 09, 2001 09:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before anyone gets started; I did do a search, both here and on the net.
Has anyone got a list of the base and primary charges ( type and amount ) in caps corresponding to their number?
As I stated in the opening, I tried to find it on the net, but any search-words I can think of give thousands of matches, or none at all. And on this forum searching for "cap" will not narrow the search down very much.
DarkAngel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 591
From: ?
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 09, 2001 03:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey good question i wanna know that also.
------------------
--==DarkAngel==--
Go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com Alot off Bombs/Explosives and Homemade Weapons!!,,,Plus a <<Forum>>!!!
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 196
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 11, 2001 07:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If nobody knows this, why are there so many references to #6 and #8 caps in the posts?
It's not a lot to type in.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 11, 2001 10:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I saw the information we need on a web page in some European language. I couldn't understand all the writing, but it was obvious what they were talking about. I'll see if the site is in the cache on my comp., and if not I'll have a look for it.
Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 293
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 12:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can't you use an online transalator to decipher the text ?
jin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
From: uk
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 07:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
blasting caps are manufactured in several strengths,the most common being the no 6,no 8 and the special military.each is about twice as powerful as the preceding cap.the no 6 will detonate common dynamites but not military expolsivesthe no 8 will detonate pressed tnt such as military demoliton blocks but not cast tnt.the special military cap will detonate any expolsive that can be detonated by a blasting cap and was especially made for plastic expolsives.
i think amount of expolsives used in the caps is in the blackbook 2or3
frostfire
Frequent Poster
Posts: 266
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 09:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
download improvised primary explosive, there's cap 8 and 6 there
eg. 1 g Acetone peroxide with bla-bla confinement is # 8 cap
[This message has been edited by frostfire (edited March 11, 2001).]
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 442
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 11, 2001 09:19 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could only find the amounts for mercury fulminate caps.
No.1, 0.30 gms.
No.2, 0.40 gms
No.3, 0.54 gms.
No.4, 0.65 gms.
No.5, 0.80 gms.
No.6, 1.00 gms.
No.7, 1.50 gms.
No.8, 2.00 gms.
Most of the specifications I have seen for compound caps use from .5 to 1.0 gram primary and 1.0 gram base charge.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 12, 2001 01:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shit! I've been calling my caps roughly #8, and they normally have around 2g HMTD AND 2g picric acid! These detonate just about anything.
10fingers
Frequent Poster
Posts: 442
From: USA
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 13, 2001 12:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea, I would think so!
SMAG 12B/E5
Frequent Poster
Posts: 61
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 17, 2001 12:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instead of wasting Forum space and starting a new thread, an ole dummy wanted to add something. I found an excellent method for creating blasting cap shells. The Corbin Company manufactures a set of dies for the production 5.56mm bullet jackets from spent 22 cal. rimfire shells. The dies, mounted in a reloading press, push the spent case through the first die, smoothing out and removing the rim (also lengthing the case). I lengthened the die punch and used spent 22 magnum cases. They are excellent for light charges. Next I will turn a new punch with a conical cavity and a stop pin with matching blunt point. This will produce a shaped charge effect from the base charge optimizing the cap. These units will crimp perfectly on standard time fuse. Cannon fuse will require a ferrule.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 18, 2001 01:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 grams AP ~ 1 gram of PETN, I've heard.
outsider
Frequent Poster
Posts: 91
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 18, 2001 02:37 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I checked T.L. Davis for it because I think there's where 10fingers got his information from, and it says: "The original fulminate detonators were numbered according to the amount of fulminate they contained along with the usual dimensions of the cylindrical copper capsules. The same numbers are applied to commercial blasting caps of the same size whatever the weight and characters of the charges. A no. 6 cap for example is a cap of the same size as one which contains 1 gram of straight fulminate (diameter 6mm, length 35 mm). No. 6 caps of different manufacturers may differ in their power as they differ in their composition"
And elsewhere: "A no. 8 blasting cap containing 2 grams of mercury fulminate can be replaced, for use in detonating explosives, by a no. 8 copper capsule containing 1 gram of picric acid on top which 0.023 gram of silverazide has been compressed."
So this means: a commercial no. 6 cap contains about 1 gram of secundary high explosive (most likely PETN). Which can be replaced by 2.5 gram mercuryfulminate (PETN=150% compared to TNT and picric acid=120%). And mercuryfulminate and AP can be considered of equal power, so a no. 6 cap can be replaced by 2.5-3 gram of AP.
c0deblue
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 24, 2001 08:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I've managed to find on the subject, detonators were originally classed by the number of *grains* of mercury fulminate they contained, with the cap number corresponding to that content. There being no industry standard, things became more and more arbitrary as other substances were substituted, until the number almost has no significance except in relative terms.
Gerald Hurst has the following to say:
From: glhurst@onr.com (Gerald L. Hurst)
Newsgroups: alt.engr.explosives
Subject: Re: Electronic detonators?
Date: 3 Jan 1998 18:46:14 GMT
Back in the 1960s and earlier, the #6 cap was the industry standard based
on common use with the highly sensitive nitrglycerin explosives common
at the time. Number 8 caps were then widely used only in the seismic
industry. The premier seismic cap was the duPont SSS which was
strong enough to initiate C-4 with reasonable certainty if one was careful
to set the cap in good contact. Seismic caps had stronger shells and could
withstand hydrostatic pressures up to as much as 10,000 psi. The SSS
cap had a dimpled end which functioned as a miniature shaped charge.
The dimple had no effect on initiating ability but probably increased the
pressure resistance of the casing.
The number 8 cap became more common in response to the need for
stronger initiation when using water-based explosives and cast primers
which usually contained too little sensitizing RDX or PETN in the blends
with TNT. In those days the conventional wisdom was that military
detonators were about twice as strong as commercial #8s. This was not
quite true because the #6 then typically contained about 6 grains of base
charge, slightly less than half that of the military "engineer specials."
As water gels and emulsions proliferated, #8s became stronger and for
all practical purposes equivalent to the military detonators.
The numbering system for caps using modern HEX was certainly somewhat
arbitrary and depended on who was making the cap and in what country.
"Standard" blasting caps were made in all numeric strengths up to at least
#12 for sensitivity testing but only #6 and #8 were available commercially
except by special order. Of course, there was no single standard which
was universally accepted.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 01:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you want is the Improvised Primary Explosives PDF from angelo's site. It lists the equivalent amounts of IPE's to commercial caps. E.g:
Acetone Peroxide
Equivalence:
1gram = No. 8 cap
0.75g = No. 6 cap