megalomania
June 26th, 2003, 11:37 AM
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 23, 2001 10:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got some Potassium Perchlorate and 400 mesh aluminum powder the other day from Pyrotek and I'm having some trouble with it. I mixed 1 ounce AL with 2 ounces Potassium Perchlorate
and tried lighting about half an ounce with a fuse. what happened was the aluminum burned really slow, no flash nothing and I was left with like a molten aluminum puddle.
The first thing I thought was I had to much aluminum powder in the mixture so I made another batch with less AL, and tested it this batch didn't burn at all. With my experience from earlier batches I would mix AL with Potassium Perchlorate without even weighing it, just making sure you have more oxidizer than fuel and it would flash. Does anyone know what the problem is? Maybe the oxidizer is kind of moist.
If thats the problem at what tempreture should I dry the potassium perchlorate and for how long in an oven?
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 24, 2001 09:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since you haven't said what type of Al powder you got, I assume it's spherical. You won't be able to make flash with it, flake is required. I have a Kg of 300 mesh paint grade Al, which I assume is spherical. Flash made with it behaves exactly as you've described.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
jin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
From: uk
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 25, 2001 03:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i had the same problems when using paint grade al but if i used sulphur in the mix it would work.
the sulphur sensitises the flashpowder making the ignition temp lower.
[This message has been edited by jin (edited March 25, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 25, 2001 12:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al/S burns without a conventional oxidiser, like the Zn/S rocket fuel. Makes a hell of a lot of smoke.
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 26, 2001 03:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, thanks everyone for info. What happened was I called up Pyrotek and asked them whats the best Al powder to use for flash and he said german black flack #600 mesh, wich costs $20.00 a pound. So I asked him for the next best grade and he said, atomized spherical #400 mesh ($12). So I gues the guy that works for pyrotek doesnt know shit about flash powders and they still let him for for them.
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 26, 2001 12:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't recall what grades of Al powder pyrotek sell, but perhaps this was the next best grade. Why didn't you buy the German black?
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 28, 2001 12:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J: I was kinda low on money and I spent $120 on other chems from Pyrotek. But now I look back and I should have ordered German Black. Now I have to wait another 2 and a half months for it to get here to Alaska.
But if i mix in sulfur with Potassium Pechlorate and AL it should work?
[This message has been edited by Teck (edited March 28, 2001).]
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted March 28, 2001 01:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jin claims it will. Perhaps you should give it a try. What did you buy from pyrotek that costs that much money? My order costs $150. But thats ok, i just have to play black jack for a couple hours to get some money.
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 01:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is a dream:
Today, I decided to do a little experimenting with Perchlorate/Al/S flash. In the past I had attempted to make salutes with Chlorate/Al flash, but without any luck since the only Al available to me is 300 mesh paint grade (spherical, I assume).
I looked up some formulae on the PFP database, and came accross:
KClO4: 50%
Al: 25%
S: 25%
The Al type specified was dark pyro, but I decided to use my paint grade anyway. I diaper mixed a 20g batch, all chemicals were finely powdered. When some of this was lit unconfined, it burnt fairly slowly with a lot of sparks.
I took between 7 and 10g or so and placed this in a salute. The powder was pressed down gently with a piece of tissue paper (this is part of my method for making salutes), i.e it wasn't loose. The cardboard tube was 3 layers thick (cereal packet) and the end plugs were 1 inch thick, made with plaster of paris. The salute was placed by a rock, and the fuse lit. The explosion was very loud, and a chunk of the rock was removed.
So in short, yes it will work, be careful!
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 28, 2001 04:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try putting the spherical, paint grade Al in a ball mill, as if it was KNO3 or something. Leave it for a few days. This should flatten the spheres, making it more like flake, and it might also break the particles down a bit.
It might not work very well but it can't do any harm, right?
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 08:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is something I'll definitely be trying when I eventually get round to building a mill. In the meantime, this composition works fine (until I run out of Perchlorate).
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 29, 2001 12:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today I played around with KClO4/AL/S I made a 70gram batch and had the same results as J, it burned slow as befor, and I didnt notice any effect of sulfur on my flash powder composition. Also I looked at my AL under a 10x magnifier and it looks like theres some flakes in there about 25% but they are 100 mesh and the rest is really tiny so I cant tell weather they are spherical or flakes.
But if I compact the batch with KClO4/AL/S it will blow?
And if I pound up the AL powder I have, in a mortar, will the powdered AL flatten out?
And J mentioned PFP Database I was on the internet and couldnt find it. I found a link that said its down and no longer available.
Does anyone have it saved anywhere?
The chemicals I bought from pyrotek are: AM, Hexamine, H202, Dextrin, Ammonium Perchlorate, Nitromethane, Potassium Nitrate, some glassware, it cost me around $40 for shipping, damn rippoff. I called a company in Oregon that sell Baquacil really cheap $14 a gallon they said the shipping to Alaska is $65.00. So I was screw that. and just ordered from pyrotek.
Its amazing pyrotek sell so many chems for making HE's and they're still in buisness.
---------------------------------------------
"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s
[This message has been edited by Teck (edited March 29, 2001).]
jin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
From: uk
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 29, 2001 01:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
when i made the flashpowder i grinded the chemicals together on wood with a plastic container first on there own then all three together.first i made the kno3/al/s mix then the kclo3/al/s mix with no probelms grinding them all together in small amounts like 5 grams.they worked unconfined with a bright flash and confined with a loud bag.
btw the paint grade al i have is 300 mesh flake on the label.
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 29, 2001 12:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, first of all NEVER grind mixed flash! You may be lucky 9 times out of 10, but eventually you will have an accident. Also, never mix Sulphur with K/NaClO3. This doesn't apply for K/NaClO4 however. The safe way to mix sensitive compositions like flash is the diaper method. This involves mixing them on a sheet of paper by alternately lifting up opposite edges until the mixture is consistent. It won't mix the chemicals as intimately as grinding/milling, but this doesn't matter with flash.
Teck, the PFP database was taken down by it's author because someone was making trouble for him. I have been meaning to put up a copy for a while, this thread has reminded me and it's now on my site.
When confined, this flash explodes violently. I have a method of making salutes on my site. Once again, be careful, and make sure you understand the process fully.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 30, 2001 12:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J: Whats your website address. I want to see what other mixes I can do with KmNO4 and mabey some other KClO4 mixes.
------------------
-------------------------
"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 30, 2001 12:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just click on the profile button (first one along on the UBB toolbar above each post) to get to user info such as webpages etc. Anyway, the address is:
http://www.connect.to/juice
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 23, 2001 10:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got some Potassium Perchlorate and 400 mesh aluminum powder the other day from Pyrotek and I'm having some trouble with it. I mixed 1 ounce AL with 2 ounces Potassium Perchlorate
and tried lighting about half an ounce with a fuse. what happened was the aluminum burned really slow, no flash nothing and I was left with like a molten aluminum puddle.
The first thing I thought was I had to much aluminum powder in the mixture so I made another batch with less AL, and tested it this batch didn't burn at all. With my experience from earlier batches I would mix AL with Potassium Perchlorate without even weighing it, just making sure you have more oxidizer than fuel and it would flash. Does anyone know what the problem is? Maybe the oxidizer is kind of moist.
If thats the problem at what tempreture should I dry the potassium perchlorate and for how long in an oven?
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 24, 2001 09:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since you haven't said what type of Al powder you got, I assume it's spherical. You won't be able to make flash with it, flake is required. I have a Kg of 300 mesh paint grade Al, which I assume is spherical. Flash made with it behaves exactly as you've described.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
jin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
From: uk
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 25, 2001 03:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i had the same problems when using paint grade al but if i used sulphur in the mix it would work.
the sulphur sensitises the flashpowder making the ignition temp lower.
[This message has been edited by jin (edited March 25, 2001).]
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 25, 2001 12:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Al/S burns without a conventional oxidiser, like the Zn/S rocket fuel. Makes a hell of a lot of smoke.
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 26, 2001 03:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, thanks everyone for info. What happened was I called up Pyrotek and asked them whats the best Al powder to use for flash and he said german black flack #600 mesh, wich costs $20.00 a pound. So I asked him for the next best grade and he said, atomized spherical #400 mesh ($12). So I gues the guy that works for pyrotek doesnt know shit about flash powders and they still let him for for them.
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 26, 2001 12:54 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't recall what grades of Al powder pyrotek sell, but perhaps this was the next best grade. Why didn't you buy the German black?
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 28, 2001 12:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J: I was kinda low on money and I spent $120 on other chems from Pyrotek. But now I look back and I should have ordered German Black. Now I have to wait another 2 and a half months for it to get here to Alaska.
But if i mix in sulfur with Potassium Pechlorate and AL it should work?
[This message has been edited by Teck (edited March 28, 2001).]
ALENGOSVIG1
Moderator
Posts: 766
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: NOV 2000
posted March 28, 2001 01:31 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jin claims it will. Perhaps you should give it a try. What did you buy from pyrotek that costs that much money? My order costs $150. But thats ok, i just have to play black jack for a couple hours to get some money.
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 01:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is a dream:
Today, I decided to do a little experimenting with Perchlorate/Al/S flash. In the past I had attempted to make salutes with Chlorate/Al flash, but without any luck since the only Al available to me is 300 mesh paint grade (spherical, I assume).
I looked up some formulae on the PFP database, and came accross:
KClO4: 50%
Al: 25%
S: 25%
The Al type specified was dark pyro, but I decided to use my paint grade anyway. I diaper mixed a 20g batch, all chemicals were finely powdered. When some of this was lit unconfined, it burnt fairly slowly with a lot of sparks.
I took between 7 and 10g or so and placed this in a salute. The powder was pressed down gently with a piece of tissue paper (this is part of my method for making salutes), i.e it wasn't loose. The cardboard tube was 3 layers thick (cereal packet) and the end plugs were 1 inch thick, made with plaster of paris. The salute was placed by a rock, and the fuse lit. The explosion was very loud, and a chunk of the rock was removed.
So in short, yes it will work, be careful!
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 28, 2001 04:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try putting the spherical, paint grade Al in a ball mill, as if it was KNO3 or something. Leave it for a few days. This should flatten the spheres, making it more like flake, and it might also break the particles down a bit.
It might not work very well but it can't do any harm, right?
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 08:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is something I'll definitely be trying when I eventually get round to building a mill. In the meantime, this composition works fine (until I run out of Perchlorate).
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 29, 2001 12:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today I played around with KClO4/AL/S I made a 70gram batch and had the same results as J, it burned slow as befor, and I didnt notice any effect of sulfur on my flash powder composition. Also I looked at my AL under a 10x magnifier and it looks like theres some flakes in there about 25% but they are 100 mesh and the rest is really tiny so I cant tell weather they are spherical or flakes.
But if I compact the batch with KClO4/AL/S it will blow?
And if I pound up the AL powder I have, in a mortar, will the powdered AL flatten out?
And J mentioned PFP Database I was on the internet and couldnt find it. I found a link that said its down and no longer available.
Does anyone have it saved anywhere?
The chemicals I bought from pyrotek are: AM, Hexamine, H202, Dextrin, Ammonium Perchlorate, Nitromethane, Potassium Nitrate, some glassware, it cost me around $40 for shipping, damn rippoff. I called a company in Oregon that sell Baquacil really cheap $14 a gallon they said the shipping to Alaska is $65.00. So I was screw that. and just ordered from pyrotek.
Its amazing pyrotek sell so many chems for making HE's and they're still in buisness.
---------------------------------------------
"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s
[This message has been edited by Teck (edited March 29, 2001).]
jin
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
From: uk
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 29, 2001 01:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
when i made the flashpowder i grinded the chemicals together on wood with a plastic container first on there own then all three together.first i made the kno3/al/s mix then the kclo3/al/s mix with no probelms grinding them all together in small amounts like 5 grams.they worked unconfined with a bright flash and confined with a loud bag.
btw the paint grade al i have is 300 mesh flake on the label.
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 29, 2001 12:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, first of all NEVER grind mixed flash! You may be lucky 9 times out of 10, but eventually you will have an accident. Also, never mix Sulphur with K/NaClO3. This doesn't apply for K/NaClO4 however. The safe way to mix sensitive compositions like flash is the diaper method. This involves mixing them on a sheet of paper by alternately lifting up opposite edges until the mixture is consistent. It won't mix the chemicals as intimately as grinding/milling, but this doesn't matter with flash.
Teck, the PFP database was taken down by it's author because someone was making trouble for him. I have been meaning to put up a copy for a while, this thread has reminded me and it's now on my site.
When confined, this flash explodes violently. I have a method of making salutes on my site. Once again, be careful, and make sure you understand the process fully.
J
------------------
"If the aquarium water has to be drunk don't waste the fish. In fact they'll probably be the easiest to eat even if you don't need the water. The cat is next in the pot." - John 'Lofty' Wiseman
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 30, 2001 12:46 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J: Whats your website address. I want to see what other mixes I can do with KmNO4 and mabey some other KClO4 mixes.
------------------
-------------------------
"When I think of all the victims killed during nitroglycerine explosions, and the terrible havoc that has been wreaked, which in all probability will continue to occur in the future, I am almost ashamed to admit to be its discoverer." Ascanio Sobrero mid 1800s
J
Moderator
Posts: 605
From: United Kingdom
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 30, 2001 12:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just click on the profile button (first one along on the UBB toolbar above each post) to get to user info such as webpages etc. Anyway, the address is:
http://www.connect.to/juice