megalomania
June 26th, 2003, 12:23 PM
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 27, 2001 12:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I detonated 200g consisting of 75% AP and 25% AN by weight this weekend. Using a cap made from AP (top), SP (mid) and AN (bottom) using ~5g of AP and 5g of SP and 5g of AN.
As soon as I get the chance I'm going to increase the amnt of AN.
As far as properties go I found it to be slighlty less sensitive and more powerful than AP alone. My objective in sight is to create a mixture that is cap sensitive, but not nearly as shock sensitive as AP alone.
Any opinions on the possibilities? I'm thinking plasticizers.
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 27, 2001 01:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do you think the AN detonated? If it did that sounds like a good mixture. For plasticisers maybe try Vaseline, mineral oil, Pariffin, etc
homemaker
A new voice
Posts: 9
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 27, 2001 10:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what is SP
the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 171
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 27, 2001 01:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smokeless Powder
------------------
You can't survive the life!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 27, 2001 06:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you end up using a plazticizer, will the propagation of the shockwave, of the detonated AP, be inhibited in anyway as it passes through the plasticizer? i am not suggesting it will be stopped, but just not allowed to spread evenely throughout the mixture. This i was thinking would result in a partial detonation. The reason i bring this up is that, AN? is a very hard thing to detonate, especially with AP. and anything the inhibits the AP shockwave might not work to well.
With that said, try a different ratio of AN+AP next time. Use a little more AN and a little less AP to see if you still get a complete detonation. Like 60:40 by weight.
------------------
...Æ
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 28, 2001 12:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure the AN detonated, it was much louder than equivalent wts of AP alone that I've used. Also I've never felt this before. The events went like this: small flash, felt a pressure increase in ears, heard boom. I've never experienced that with just AP. But it tells me that I was too close.
I'll try different ratios as I get time, next will be 1:1, then 3:1, AN:AP.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 28, 2001 09:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't use abreviation unless you have the meaning first written in the text!To avoid confusions!
SP= sodium perchlorate, silver picrate, sodium picrate, smokeless powder,sodium peroxyde,...?
AP=Aceton peroxyde,Ammonium picrate, ammonium perchlorate,...
Do you see the point?Of course I know what you where talking about but stil it would have avoid you to answer the question about it (and thus finelly leading you to write it correctly in ful letters).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 01, 2001 01:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tryed the AP+AN mix today, the charge was 100g consisting of 50% AP and 50% AN by volume.
I detonated the charge with a small blasting cap of AP. The explosion made a very sharp bang and not a deep boom as i expected, and lots of smoke.
I think all the AN detonated cause the explosion was very powerfull (made a big crater), it was at least a partial detonation, no doubt about it.
I'm planning on detonating a 220g charge tomorrow with 60% AN and 40% AP by volume.
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 02, 2001 03:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that there is a mix of AP,AN and Aluminum powder.It contains 40% Acetone Peroxide,57% Ammonium Nitrate and 3% Aluminum Powder.Very similar.Could it be a bit more powerful because of the Aluminum powder?I am going to experiment with this just as soon as I make some AP.Keep up the good work
Demolition
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 04, 2001 03:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is 400 mesh Al powder fine enough? I have access to a small amount at work. I may be able to get more by requesting a sample.
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 04, 2001 04:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also, by chance (i.e. unrelated - just read this msg now), set off an AN/AP mix today:
Init. charge: Paper tube (8cm H, 1.5cm Dia) filled with AP, 10sec fuse
Main charge: 200g 75% pure AN / 25% AP mix in metal container
Placement: Charge placed in 10cm hole and covered with soil
I have detonated the same amounts of straight AP in similar conditions with not nearly the same result.
It is without doubt that the AN detonated, as the force from the blast was greatly intensified, leaving a much larger crater and producing a much fuller 'thud' and greater amounts of smoke. The largest remenants of the can were approx 3 cm2 in size.
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 05, 2001 12:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I have never tryed that mix I would think that 400 mesh AL powder would work just fine.
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 05, 2001 05:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
craghack- as with the plasticiser problem, maybe using an explosive plasticiser- nitromethane and smokeless powder, etc
------------------
All there is to fear is your own co-ordination
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 05, 2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEAH, AN+AP rulez, i made my first AP+AN bomb last summer, I posted it,(it was 100 grams one). I tested similar mixtures and claim that they detonate and the lowest possible ammount of AP used is 9%(to be cap sensitive).
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 06, 2001 05:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just be careful with the aluminum as it may act as an oxidizer and create the AP to warm up and explode.Try a small batch first.
the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 171
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 06, 2001 09:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aluminium acting as an oxidiser? NO way!
Al is not a oxidiser, but a fuel!
The only problem there could be is the AN (oxidiser) reacting with the Al.
------------------
You can't survive the life!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 06, 2001 12:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, now that you mention it, and explosive (by nature) plastisizer might be your best bet. It should even help in the detonation of the AN. Not that most people seam to be having trouble. If you are thinking of adding Al to the mox, becareful that you don't get any unwanted reaction between your TCAP and the Al. this could spell disaster for your body if the device just decided to go boom, with no warning. Like suggested, always try new things in small amounts first. Although there is only so little AN you can use. I personally would try and mix an Al + TCAP charge first, (inside a paper tube) and just burying it. see if it all of the sudden just goes off by itself, with no help from a lit fuse. If you end up having to wait a day with nothing happening, destroy the charge and go on to the Al+TCAP+AN charge.
------------------
...Æ
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 06, 2001 04:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mixed ammonium nitrate with alluminium and acetone peroxide lots of times. It seems stable and it haven't exploded without detonator. I've also tried to mix acetone peroxide with bronze paint and wait the solvent to evaporate. That makes very homogenous mixture and the only bad thing is the thickening agent in the paint that don't evaporate(it is in very small quantities). This mixture burns with great flash and is detonatable(i tried one small bomb with it and it went off loudly). It is not more shock sensitive than the straight AP.The straight mixture is useless, because of the oxigen deficite of the AP. I've used it, mixed with AN, of course...
Morrigan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: The Netherlands
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 09, 2001 04:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about using a ammonium nitrate / acetone peroxide mixture as base charge in a compound blasting cap, something like: 2 grams AN 75% /AP 25% pressed (dangerous since the AN might increase the friction sensitivity) in a aluminum tube with 1 gram pure AP pressed on top of it, equipped with safety fuse and closed at both ends. If the AN/AP mix detonates it could match up a #8. What do you guys think...
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 09, 2001 04:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure such a small quantity of AN/AP will detonate properly? What is the minimum quantity/density/compression?
Would be a great idea if it worked.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 10, 2001 05:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It must work propperly if the cap is 1-2 cm wide and the proportion is something allike 50%AP 50%AN. I make my powerful blasting caps from starters for luminiscent lamps(8 grams clear AP).
btw:today I exploded 200grams amonite with 20%AP and 2,5%bronze paint in a forest near my 'ranch', the detonator was the above described. The detonation was full...
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 27, 2001 12:14 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I detonated 200g consisting of 75% AP and 25% AN by weight this weekend. Using a cap made from AP (top), SP (mid) and AN (bottom) using ~5g of AP and 5g of SP and 5g of AN.
As soon as I get the chance I'm going to increase the amnt of AN.
As far as properties go I found it to be slighlty less sensitive and more powerful than AP alone. My objective in sight is to create a mixture that is cap sensitive, but not nearly as shock sensitive as AP alone.
Any opinions on the possibilities? I'm thinking plasticizers.
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 27, 2001 01:13 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do you think the AN detonated? If it did that sounds like a good mixture. For plasticisers maybe try Vaseline, mineral oil, Pariffin, etc
homemaker
A new voice
Posts: 9
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 27, 2001 10:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what is SP
the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 171
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 27, 2001 01:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smokeless Powder
------------------
You can't survive the life!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 27, 2001 06:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you end up using a plazticizer, will the propagation of the shockwave, of the detonated AP, be inhibited in anyway as it passes through the plasticizer? i am not suggesting it will be stopped, but just not allowed to spread evenely throughout the mixture. This i was thinking would result in a partial detonation. The reason i bring this up is that, AN? is a very hard thing to detonate, especially with AP. and anything the inhibits the AP shockwave might not work to well.
With that said, try a different ratio of AN+AP next time. Use a little more AN and a little less AP to see if you still get a complete detonation. Like 60:40 by weight.
------------------
...Æ
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 28, 2001 12:34 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure the AN detonated, it was much louder than equivalent wts of AP alone that I've used. Also I've never felt this before. The events went like this: small flash, felt a pressure increase in ears, heard boom. I've never experienced that with just AP. But it tells me that I was too close.
I'll try different ratios as I get time, next will be 1:1, then 3:1, AN:AP.
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 28, 2001 09:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't use abreviation unless you have the meaning first written in the text!To avoid confusions!
SP= sodium perchlorate, silver picrate, sodium picrate, smokeless powder,sodium peroxyde,...?
AP=Aceton peroxyde,Ammonium picrate, ammonium perchlorate,...
Do you see the point?Of course I know what you where talking about but stil it would have avoid you to answer the question about it (and thus finelly leading you to write it correctly in ful letters).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o)"
MasterMayhem
Frequent Poster
Posts: 84
From: Norway
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 01, 2001 01:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tryed the AP+AN mix today, the charge was 100g consisting of 50% AP and 50% AN by volume.
I detonated the charge with a small blasting cap of AP. The explosion made a very sharp bang and not a deep boom as i expected, and lots of smoke.
I think all the AN detonated cause the explosion was very powerfull (made a big crater), it was at least a partial detonation, no doubt about it.
I'm planning on detonating a 220g charge tomorrow with 60% AN and 40% AP by volume.
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 02, 2001 03:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that there is a mix of AP,AN and Aluminum powder.It contains 40% Acetone Peroxide,57% Ammonium Nitrate and 3% Aluminum Powder.Very similar.Could it be a bit more powerful because of the Aluminum powder?I am going to experiment with this just as soon as I make some AP.Keep up the good work
Demolition
The Real
Frequent Poster
Posts: 136
From: Columbus, OH
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 04, 2001 03:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is 400 mesh Al powder fine enough? I have access to a small amount at work. I may be able to get more by requesting a sample.
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 04, 2001 04:32 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also, by chance (i.e. unrelated - just read this msg now), set off an AN/AP mix today:
Init. charge: Paper tube (8cm H, 1.5cm Dia) filled with AP, 10sec fuse
Main charge: 200g 75% pure AN / 25% AP mix in metal container
Placement: Charge placed in 10cm hole and covered with soil
I have detonated the same amounts of straight AP in similar conditions with not nearly the same result.
It is without doubt that the AN detonated, as the force from the blast was greatly intensified, leaving a much larger crater and producing a much fuller 'thud' and greater amounts of smoke. The largest remenants of the can were approx 3 cm2 in size.
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 05, 2001 12:35 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I have never tryed that mix I would think that 400 mesh AL powder would work just fine.
sadsakjoel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 170
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 05, 2001 05:27 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
craghack- as with the plasticiser problem, maybe using an explosive plasticiser- nitromethane and smokeless powder, etc
------------------
All there is to fear is your own co-ordination
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 05, 2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEAH, AN+AP rulez, i made my first AP+AN bomb last summer, I posted it,(it was 100 grams one). I tested similar mixtures and claim that they detonate and the lowest possible ammount of AP used is 9%(to be cap sensitive).
Demolition
Frequent Poster
Posts: 159
From: Australia
Registered: FEB 2001
posted March 06, 2001 05:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just be careful with the aluminum as it may act as an oxidizer and create the AP to warm up and explode.Try a small batch first.
the freshmaker
Frequent Poster
Posts: 171
From: Heaven
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 06, 2001 09:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aluminium acting as an oxidiser? NO way!
Al is not a oxidiser, but a fuel!
The only problem there could be is the AN (oxidiser) reacting with the Al.
------------------
You can't survive the life!
CragHack
Frequent Poster
Posts: 606
From:
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 06, 2001 12:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
yes, now that you mention it, and explosive (by nature) plastisizer might be your best bet. It should even help in the detonation of the AN. Not that most people seam to be having trouble. If you are thinking of adding Al to the mox, becareful that you don't get any unwanted reaction between your TCAP and the Al. this could spell disaster for your body if the device just decided to go boom, with no warning. Like suggested, always try new things in small amounts first. Although there is only so little AN you can use. I personally would try and mix an Al + TCAP charge first, (inside a paper tube) and just burying it. see if it all of the sudden just goes off by itself, with no help from a lit fuse. If you end up having to wait a day with nothing happening, destroy the charge and go on to the Al+TCAP+AN charge.
------------------
...Æ
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 06, 2001 04:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've mixed ammonium nitrate with alluminium and acetone peroxide lots of times. It seems stable and it haven't exploded without detonator. I've also tried to mix acetone peroxide with bronze paint and wait the solvent to evaporate. That makes very homogenous mixture and the only bad thing is the thickening agent in the paint that don't evaporate(it is in very small quantities). This mixture burns with great flash and is detonatable(i tried one small bomb with it and it went off loudly). It is not more shock sensitive than the straight AP.The straight mixture is useless, because of the oxigen deficite of the AP. I've used it, mixed with AN, of course...
Morrigan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: The Netherlands
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 09, 2001 04:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about using a ammonium nitrate / acetone peroxide mixture as base charge in a compound blasting cap, something like: 2 grams AN 75% /AP 25% pressed (dangerous since the AN might increase the friction sensitivity) in a aluminum tube with 1 gram pure AP pressed on top of it, equipped with safety fuse and closed at both ends. If the AN/AP mix detonates it could match up a #8. What do you guys think...
Donutty
Frequent Poster
Posts: 225
From: UK
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 09, 2001 04:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure such a small quantity of AN/AP will detonate properly? What is the minimum quantity/density/compression?
Would be a great idea if it worked.
simply RED
Frequent Poster
Posts: 238
From: HELL
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 10, 2001 05:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It must work propperly if the cap is 1-2 cm wide and the proportion is something allike 50%AP 50%AN. I make my powerful blasting caps from starters for luminiscent lamps(8 grams clear AP).
btw:today I exploded 200grams amonite with 20%AP and 2,5%bronze paint in a forest near my 'ranch', the detonator was the above described. The detonation was full...