Unwashed AP more sensitive? - Archive File

[megalomania]

Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 04, 2001 02:13 AM
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I made some AP and before washing it I took a small batch of AP and dried it out. And washed the rest.
Then I tested both (washed and unwashed AP)
with a hammer on a metal anvil. The unwashed AP with acid sounded MORE powerful than washed. (The washed batch was washed with 5 gallons of water.)

Did anyone notice or expirement with unwashed AP?




green beret
Frequent Poster
Posts: 108
From: Australia
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 04, 2001 06:02 AM
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Yes, I have found that unwashed AP is more unstable than dried AP. I think its because of the acid.


Foodos
Frequent Poster
Posts: 210
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 05, 2001 01:33 AM
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and it has been discussed in ANY discussion on AP


blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 05, 2001 03:21 PM
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I think he's asking the question
"is unwashed AP, more powerful than washed AP?"

[This message has been edited by blackadder (edited March 05, 2001).]



Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 07, 2001 06:50 PM
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Im asking if unwashed ap is more powerful than washed.

[fowkes.l]

I believe unwashed AP to be more sensitive.
About an hour ago 0.5 grams of unwashed AP detonated in my fingers. I did not bump or light it, it was in a small plastic capsule used for medicine, I was carrying it to another bench when all of a sudden it detonated in my left hand.

The damage to my hand is minimal, my middle finger and left thumb are ripped open in the centre, alot of blood was coming out until i bandaged up. Luckily the shock from the blast has taken away any feeling in my fingers and im unaible to feel any pain. I hope this is not permanent. Also it has been about an hour and my ears are still ringing, my right ear is causing me trouble.

Lesson number one: DONT BE LAZY, SPEND THE EXTRA 15 MINUTES WASHING YOUR AP.
I usually wash my AP but was in a rush to get some.
I believe I am very luck to still have my fingers.

[Halo]

dude reply back and tell us whether your fingers are ok. I have not yet made Ap but i will be making about a half a film canister of it in a few days. What is the safest way to transport and store it so i dont blow an arm off? how much damage would about a film canister do to me if i was wearing gardening goves, ear protection, eye protection, and held the film canister with a two foot grabing device.
sorry about this question but im kinda scared of this shit!
the largest explosive i have made and used so far is a huge steel pipe bomb with double base smokeless powder and about 1/2 gram of picric acid in bag inside bomb.(very nice explosion)

[fowkes.l]

My fingers are very sore, I have now recieved my feeling back and they are throbbing with pain.
Now as for a film canister of AP, your looking at 10-20 grams correct!! If you were to where no protection at all you would have nothing from your wrist down. 0.5 grams went off in my hand, i was lucky not to loose a finger, I have seen this same charge do a lot of damage to empty softdrink can.

If your charge went off in your hand and you were wearing gardening gloves, I doubt very much if you would still have a hand, a gardening glove would offer little help. you will see when you set your AP off that nothing stands in the road of it. Your 2 foot extension might save you, although you may have minor burns and pieces of plastic from the film canister stuck in your face. Also your extesnion will be twisted up.

I think you shouldn't worry about your safety devices (excludes ear protection and strong gloves), AP is a little sensitive. Stupid people make it look extremely sensitive by stuffing around with it. If your AP has been washed it needs a solid hit from an object for it to detonate. Also if you are nervous do not use extension you might shake like me and drop it.This is the first time it's ever gone off by accident (due to not washing my AP). Always make sure you wash your AP, always.

When i first started making AP, I was scared like you, I was so scared that my hand was shaking loading it into sealed straws. The best way to approach it, is, without being scared just be cautious and think smart.

The best way to transport AP is for it to be wet. I wrote an article on AP's sensitivity when wet, It won't detonate from flame or from shock of hammer. So to transport AP, slightly wet it with a spray bottle (mist spray) until it forms little clumps. You can use acetone (dries quicker) or water.

Store you AP in a plastic container that has a peel off lid. Keep it in a cool place.
email me at leighfowkes111@hotmail.com (NOT MY REAL NAME) for any more info (basics)
some times when you ask questions like yours you get in trouble, best to email me.

[Arthis]

Maybe the -O-O- link, being very electronegative, has particular affinities with H+ protons, and as the peroxyde bonds are often unstable, the acidity causes a destruction resulting in lower stability. This would mean slightly basic AP is far more stable than acid one. Use a little excess of sodium bicarbonate then.

[Halo]

Thankyou for the reply it helped alot. Getting plastic in my face or a mangled 2 foot extension is nothing compared to a missing arm!

I am not that nervous Id never shake. Lets not say "nervous" IM just super careful. And I am going to make less (about a pile the size of one of those lil foam earplugs)

Thanks again- Halo

[spelunker]

you also want to make sure that during manufacturing you make the finest cristals you can, the crystal size alone can go a long way in determining sencetivity. if you were able to after manufacturing load it with a press so that the crystals pretty much are not there anymore, it would be very stable due to small cristal size and no air gaps. don't do this with ap unless it has been washed with the baking soda ans is still wet. i've droped (as sencitivity test) a film canister packed from the height of around 2.5m, didn't go off. remember, don't be lazy, take safety precautions

[knowledgehungry]

Where were you when you dropped it:confused: I would not want to be anywhere near a film canister of AP. 2.5 M is far too close if it went off, the blast chest alone would suck nevermind shrapnel from whatever it landed on. And also just because one batch was safe from 2.5 M dont expect all batches to act the same, that is one of the biggest problems with AP, the varying sensitivity/power of each batch. I think that is why many people prefer HMTD there is only one polymer IIRC.

[Anthony]

I you press your wet AP you'll get a solid cake, then what? Smash it up?

A 2ft pole would likely save you from anoything but minor injury. You might get a bruised hand from the shockwave travelling down the grabbers shaft. But unless the shaft or otehr grabber parts were metal, your visor/gloves/clothing should stop the worst of any peppering.

[Halo]

Btw, Halo has now left the building

[Arthis]

Definitely Halo, make searches with the search engine before you post. It's going to get you straight out of there.
AN/acetone mix seems to be just a little more powerful than ANFO, but I don't think AP will detonate it. Rather you would need a HE booster, maybe APAN if you want to stick to simple explosives.

Since AN is just salts (NH4+ + NO3-), acetone won't make really a decomposition but rather a dissolution. you gain in power because acetone is more flammable than diesel.

[vulture]

Someone here said something about basic AP being safer.

Not true! Peroxy bonds are far more unstable in basic environment! They are also not very stable in highly acidic environment, but atleast more stable than in basic environment.

Try adding some diluted HCl to H2O2 and then try adding some diluted NaOH to H2O2. You'll quickly see what I mean.

[Arthis]

This was me :( , thanks to correct it. This means that AP should be washed with lots of distilled water, without using sodium bicarbonate, to be more stable ? At least for use in detonators, ie in metal casings, it may be better to have a slight basicity to avoid the corrosion of the metal .[?].

[vulture]

I think an excess of sodiumcarbonate would be bad. Just make sure you don't go over pH 7,5 and you should be fine.

[Cyclonite]

How long do you plan on keeping the AP in a metal container? You would not benefit from keeping it more of a base pH

[User Name]

I have stored AP for 1 month before in a ziplock baggie. i stored it in a metal pan for about 2 weeks too.

no problems :)

[Arthis]

If you don't have ever had problems with your AP doesn't mean you'll never have. I usually store my AP for a long time (several monthes), but trying a metal pan is a bit like russian roulette. A minimum precaution is required.
Did you read RTPB ?

[DBSP]

Yet....

No seriously I don't think that there are any problems storing AP as long as it is carefully prepared and neutralized. Some of it will of course sublime during storage reducing the ammount of AP as the months pass but I don't belive it gets less stable. The only thing you need to make shure is that the container it is stored in hasn't got any lid or anything else the sublimed AP could get caught in and cause the handling to become dangeorus. Things like metal pans can't be considered good because of the risk of static electricity and the great risk of dangeorus shrapnel if it would accidently go off, glass is no good either. A simple paper bag could be concidered close to ideal because of the low risk of shrapnel and static electricity. Even better if stored at a cool place where no one can accidentally get to it.

[User Name]

I only used a metal pan as a test to see if AP would become unstaible in it. It was kept outside away from anything but i covered it wiht a plastic bag.