megalomania
June 26th, 2003, 03:12 PM
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 19, 2001 08:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
This is my first time making HMTD. I have made Acetone Peroxide before but never had a chance to try HMTD because of the chemicals required. I am using 30% peroxide and followed Mega's recipe exactly. After stirring the solution for a while, and taking it out of the ice bath, it stayed a clear solution for about an hour. It started to turn milky white and i noticed a few crystals in there. After 3 or 4 hours, it is still milky white but is pasty and thick, with very small crystals in the paste. I cant pass it through a coffee filter because it is the consistency of glue. Is this supposed to happen? How do i filter the solution?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 20, 2001 03:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems that most of the solution has turned into very fine crystals, probably because you are using high conc. H2O2.
I'd try "filtering" it though a piece of old T-shirt, you'll probably be able to simply sqeeze out the excess liquid when it's in the filter. Don't forget to wash it with plenty of water.
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 20, 2001 03:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Took your advice about the old T-shit. filtered it, and washed it with water and methanol, and it works like a charm
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 26, 2001 12:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone know if I can wash HMTD with the Wal-Mart brand of denatured alcohol? It says it is ethanol denatured with methanol. This is all I have and really hope it will work. Just want to make sure since it becomes very very sensitive if it is not pure.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 26, 2001 12:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've washed it with that bright purple ethanol/methanol stuff, after washing well with water, to help it dry quicker and it was perfectly normal.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 26, 2001 06:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didnt start a new topic for this question because it is an HMTD question. Anyways, I just got back from Wal-Mart and they said they never heard of citric acid. So I look for about 30 minutes and dont find it. Whats a good (US) store to get it at and whats it used for? Is it expensive?
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 27, 2001 02:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got mine from a baking store around here (it was called Big Al's Bakery Supplies). It was $4 a pound. You can get it at Pyrotek too.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 27, 2001 04:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well thank you all your your help very much. I have one more question, does anyone have a good recipe for HMTD with 27% H2O2 (Baquacil), and HCl (I can get citric acid, but I have to sign shit for it)? I got enough hexamine, but its no good without the right stuff. Thanks again.
ps I did do a search, but it was either the citric acid way, or not the right %age of H2O2. Also I have the citric acid way if inferior to the HCl.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 12:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you found a method using a different concentration of H2O2, then just adjust the amount of H2O2 you use to suit the concentration.
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 28, 2001 04:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
im not sure if you can use HCL, ive never heard of anyone making HMTD with a mineral acid. you shouldnt have to sign stuff for citric acid, its a common ingredient in soap.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 28, 2001 04:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The proportions are:
140g hexamine
633g 15% HCl (or 316.5g 30%)
1470 9% H2O2 (or 490g 27%)
Acid and peroxide are both in excess, to ensure a complete reaction of the hexamine.
Theoretical yield = 208 grams HMTD
Normal experimental yield = around 130 grams HMTD.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 28, 2001 04:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did that with one method posted by 10fingers I think ("You can also use hydrochloric acid instead of citric acid. Here is a good formula;
1. Place 50 ml's 12% hydrogen peroxide,(40 volume hair bleach) in glass jar.
2. Add 12 grams hexamine while stirring. Place in fridge for 1 hr.
3. Remove jar and slowly add 15 ml's hydrochloric acid while stirring, continue stirring for 5 minutes after all acid is added.
4. Place in fridge overnight.
5. There should be a layer of white precipitate on bottom of jar, dump this into a coffee filter and rinse 5 times with distilled water, then with methanol to quicken drying time.
6. Yield 9 or 10 grams.
7. When dry store in a zip-loc bag away from heat and sunlight."). I used about 23ml of 27% H2O2. I just now weighed it and it was 9.2662191 grams. It must be a lot more dense than AP, I thought I made a much larger pile of AP and it weighed not near as much per volume it seems. Anyways, I just wasnt sure if I should dialute it, or just use less of it. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited March 28, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have scales accurate to 10 millionth of a gram?!
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 28, 2001 10:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think its that accurate, but that's what it (the calculator) said. My dad used to be really into reloading .44 mag shells and so he had all kinds of neat shit he left (who says divorce is bad). The best stuff he left was many hundred shells, two scales (they operate on the grain measurement), and a machine to squeze the bullet into the shell (wich I might use to make caps (load a shell with suitable HE, compress, put in machine, and squeze in a bullet)). I dont need any detonators now, but when I do i'll post the results. Anyways, yes, I do have a very sensitive scale (you have to turn your head so you dont accidentally breath on it). To convert grains to grams you divide the grains by 15.4324 and thats why I had such a long decimal.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited March 28, 2001).]
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 29, 2001 01:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At first I was like wow this guy doesnt know where to spend his money. Cus I though you had an analytical scale wich costs around a few thousand bucks.
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 19, 2001 08:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
This is my first time making HMTD. I have made Acetone Peroxide before but never had a chance to try HMTD because of the chemicals required. I am using 30% peroxide and followed Mega's recipe exactly. After stirring the solution for a while, and taking it out of the ice bath, it stayed a clear solution for about an hour. It started to turn milky white and i noticed a few crystals in there. After 3 or 4 hours, it is still milky white but is pasty and thick, with very small crystals in the paste. I cant pass it through a coffee filter because it is the consistency of glue. Is this supposed to happen? How do i filter the solution?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 20, 2001 03:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems that most of the solution has turned into very fine crystals, probably because you are using high conc. H2O2.
I'd try "filtering" it though a piece of old T-shirt, you'll probably be able to simply sqeeze out the excess liquid when it's in the filter. Don't forget to wash it with plenty of water.
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 20, 2001 03:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Took your advice about the old T-shit. filtered it, and washed it with water and methanol, and it works like a charm
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 26, 2001 12:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone know if I can wash HMTD with the Wal-Mart brand of denatured alcohol? It says it is ethanol denatured with methanol. This is all I have and really hope it will work. Just want to make sure since it becomes very very sensitive if it is not pure.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 26, 2001 12:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've washed it with that bright purple ethanol/methanol stuff, after washing well with water, to help it dry quicker and it was perfectly normal.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 26, 2001 06:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didnt start a new topic for this question because it is an HMTD question. Anyways, I just got back from Wal-Mart and they said they never heard of citric acid. So I look for about 30 minutes and dont find it. Whats a good (US) store to get it at and whats it used for? Is it expensive?
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 27, 2001 02:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got mine from a baking store around here (it was called Big Al's Bakery Supplies). It was $4 a pound. You can get it at Pyrotek too.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 27, 2001 04:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well thank you all your your help very much. I have one more question, does anyone have a good recipe for HMTD with 27% H2O2 (Baquacil), and HCl (I can get citric acid, but I have to sign shit for it)? I got enough hexamine, but its no good without the right stuff. Thanks again.
ps I did do a search, but it was either the citric acid way, or not the right %age of H2O2. Also I have the citric acid way if inferior to the HCl.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 12:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you found a method using a different concentration of H2O2, then just adjust the amount of H2O2 you use to suit the concentration.
John456
Frequent Poster
Posts: 105
From:
Registered: MAR 2001
posted March 28, 2001 04:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
im not sure if you can use HCL, ive never heard of anyone making HMTD with a mineral acid. you shouldnt have to sign stuff for citric acid, its a common ingredient in soap.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted March 28, 2001 04:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The proportions are:
140g hexamine
633g 15% HCl (or 316.5g 30%)
1470 9% H2O2 (or 490g 27%)
Acid and peroxide are both in excess, to ensure a complete reaction of the hexamine.
Theoretical yield = 208 grams HMTD
Normal experimental yield = around 130 grams HMTD.
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 28, 2001 04:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did that with one method posted by 10fingers I think ("You can also use hydrochloric acid instead of citric acid. Here is a good formula;
1. Place 50 ml's 12% hydrogen peroxide,(40 volume hair bleach) in glass jar.
2. Add 12 grams hexamine while stirring. Place in fridge for 1 hr.
3. Remove jar and slowly add 15 ml's hydrochloric acid while stirring, continue stirring for 5 minutes after all acid is added.
4. Place in fridge overnight.
5. There should be a layer of white precipitate on bottom of jar, dump this into a coffee filter and rinse 5 times with distilled water, then with methanol to quicken drying time.
6. Yield 9 or 10 grams.
7. When dry store in a zip-loc bag away from heat and sunlight."). I used about 23ml of 27% H2O2. I just now weighed it and it was 9.2662191 grams. It must be a lot more dense than AP, I thought I made a much larger pile of AP and it weighed not near as much per volume it seems. Anyways, I just wasnt sure if I should dialute it, or just use less of it. Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited March 28, 2001).]
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2321
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted March 28, 2001 05:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have scales accurate to 10 millionth of a gram?!
Cricket
Frequent Poster
Posts: 160
From: USA
Registered: OCT 2000
posted March 28, 2001 10:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think its that accurate, but that's what it (the calculator) said. My dad used to be really into reloading .44 mag shells and so he had all kinds of neat shit he left (who says divorce is bad). The best stuff he left was many hundred shells, two scales (they operate on the grain measurement), and a machine to squeze the bullet into the shell (wich I might use to make caps (load a shell with suitable HE, compress, put in machine, and squeze in a bullet)). I dont need any detonators now, but when I do i'll post the results. Anyways, yes, I do have a very sensitive scale (you have to turn your head so you dont accidentally breath on it). To convert grains to grams you divide the grains by 15.4324 and thats why I had such a long decimal.
[This message has been edited by Cricket (edited March 28, 2001).]
Teck
Frequent Poster
Posts: 146
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted March 29, 2001 01:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At first I was like wow this guy doesnt know where to spend his money. Cus I though you had an analytical scale wich costs around a few thousand bucks.