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SMAG 12B/E5
July 7th, 2003, 03:11 AM
I have been unsuccessful at locating any exact information of the solid propellant mixture used in the Qassam-2 Palastenian shopmade artillery rocket (simmiliar to the old Soviet 122mm rocket). These shopmade rockets are not spin-stabilized and are crude by modern military standards. There fuel composition does interest me.
The composition is described as a mixture of "fertilizer, sugar, oil and alcohol. I suspect it may be a variation of the saltpeter/sugar propellant. It may possible be an ammonium nitrate based fuel but cannot find any additional information. Does anyone have any reliable data? No search engine or archive has yielded anything other than political comentary. Thank you for any information that you may provide.

Cricket
July 7th, 2003, 08:10 AM
I searched for a long time but all I found was this guy (page 6) who said he could provide an "analytical paper" and a "diagram showing the construction of the Qassam 2 rocket". http://www.hazmansol.com/TRITON%20REPORT2%20Mar02.pdf Not much but it might turn up something. Good luck.

Forgot to mention, it's a PDF (though you probably saw the extension).

SMAG 12B/E5
July 8th, 2003, 01:59 AM
Thanks Cricket. I couldn't open but appreciate the effort. If I acquire the information, I will post. If I obtain the motor dimensions, I may fabricate a short impulse unit and post the thrust data. I doubt if the overzealouse control freaks at "Homeland Defense" will appreciate the data but... If I can return the favor let me know.

Ben
July 24th, 2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by SMAG 12B/E5
[...] The composition is described as a mixture of "fertilizer, sugar, oil and alcohol. I suspect it may be a variation of the saltpeter/sugar propellant. It may possible be an ammonium nitrate based fuel but cannot find any additional information. [...].

Interesting! I`ve wondered for some time if AN is a good solid propellant. But a friend told me yoy cannot use it because it doesn`t burn. Is this true? Or does it make a good propellant when you mix it with e.g. sugar or aluminium-powder? Does anyone know?
Waiting for enlightenment ...;)11

Tuatara
July 24th, 2003, 06:22 PM
Ben, for heaven's sake make use of the search button before you get banned.
I'm sure you've heard of Google too?

scarletmanuka
August 2nd, 2003, 02:52 AM
I have tried AN and Aluminium Powder, but I added a small3% amount of KMnO4 as catalyst. I tired burning some in the open, on a tablespoon over a bunsen. but all I got was a loud bang, and most of the composition didn't burn at all, it just snuffed out. AN and Al powder straight was too hard to ignite.

yt2095
August 2nd, 2003, 06:40 AM
Hmmm.. be VERY carefull with that mix, what you`re actualy making is called AMMONAL and was used as a landmine filler in WW2 by the french IIRC.

it could quite easily make deflagration to detonation transition!

knowledgehungry
August 2nd, 2003, 01:58 PM
Made by the french? I dont think you have anything to be worrried about :p.

Blackhawk
August 10th, 2003, 04:52 AM
it is ammonal but it won't detonate unless you put a shockwave through it, like from a cap. AN based fuels in modelrocketry consist of AN/Mg/R45 type plastic binder. The Mg is usually 600-1000mesh, it burns well, albeit a little slow and is not too hard to ignite but it very pressure sensetive, it probably would not burn at any speed at 1atm but would go around 5mm to 1cm/sec at 1000psi which is very usable.

Mr Cool
August 10th, 2003, 09:10 AM
I've used an AN based fuel, it was:

Ammonium Nitrate..............70% [fertiliser grade]
Powdered Aluminum..............5% [resin additive]
Polyester Resin...................18% [cheap stuff for fibreglass work]
Ammonium Bichromate..........5% [actually, potassium dichromate was used]
Powdered Charcoal................2% [lumpwood barbeque charcoal, reduced to airfloat in a ball mill]

It worked, but was not as good as KNO3/sugar or BP. I only tried a few times, maybe with practice it could be improved, or maybe with a different motor design.
IIRC, it hardly burnt at all in the open, just the resin with a smokey flame. I used a small nozzle and a BP igniting charge up the core to try and get the pressure up.

Another AN mix which apparently works is very simple: 80-90% AN, 10-20% "urethane plastic."

Blackhawk
August 13th, 2003, 07:37 AM
Another good easy and safe composite fuel can be found on Richard Nakkas site www.nakka-rocketry.net , His RNX fuel is based on KNO3/Fe2O3/Epoxy and can give comparable impulses to candy mixes. I have always seen a huge gap between the types of rockets (Motors) in fireworks and they types in experimental rocketry. I suppose becase with fireworks the basic skyrocket does what it is designed to do and is easy and fast to make. But I am getting off track here :)

nzrockets
August 15th, 2003, 08:08 AM
AN is used but only by Amateurs. it also has to be treated to stop it swelling and cracking with changing temperatures. Sodium Nitrate is another propellant worth thinking about 25% epoxy, 2% IO, 73% SN will work but it is much better with Mg added. it similar to KN but is more dense and unlike KN motors it will give a nice flame. will soon have more data on the propellant but i waiting for my strand burner .

matt

Kiyanoosh
August 15th, 2003, 09:05 AM
HI if you want make propellant you can mix hidrazin with colorobootadian
this best propelant
sory if my english langugae is not good:p

Desmikes
August 15th, 2003, 08:42 PM
I've heard that ammonpluver (80%AN and 20%charcoal) is a decent rocket propellent, the key word here is cheap. I don't know how you would go about igniting this comp, perhaps adding some SP or BP might make it easier...
Kiya, what's "colorobootadian"?

vulture
August 16th, 2003, 06:22 AM
I think he means chlorobutadiene.
It probably works as an oxidizer for the hydrazine, but I can't really see how.

He probably pulled it out of some book to impress us. :rolleyes: sigh.

Blackhawk
August 16th, 2003, 09:38 PM
I'd like to know where he got his hydrazine from, of course if he actually has some he is probably dead by now anyway. Lots of liquid propellants used around the boom in space travel used exotic and somewhat suicidal chems that were fiercly hypergolic, I just don't understand what they found wrong with H2 and O2, gives good isp and they are both pretty safe, even though they have to be cryogenic.