Anthony
March 17th, 2003, 08:27 PM
OxYdiSer
A new voice
Posts: 12
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 14, 2001 06:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allright...a couple of questions from a newbie.
1) What are the full ionic equations for:
a)the sythesis and
b)the detonation of acetone peroxide
2) I have been using film canisters as containers for my AP and I was wondering if wrapping the canister with several layers of duct tape would significantly increase the power of the explosion.
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 14, 2001 12:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well...as for ionic equations..i have NFI
but, yes wraping the canister in duct tape will increase the power...
this is a matchbox full of AP wrapped in about 2m of masking tape
this is what that same matchbox did to a 8h x 12w inch biscut tin
it left a crater about 30cm across, 10cm deep
and we still can't find the missing side to the tin...
however, we had an identical biscut tin, and matchbox full of AP that WASN'T wrapped with anything, and it barely even put a hole thru the lid...(no pics of that one...)
neither tin was held down, nore were the lids held on with anything..
[This message has been edited by Mick (edited February 14, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 15, 2001 05:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no ionic equations for the CTAP nor for the detonation equation because:
1) ionic equations does only exists in solution meaning a solvant is present (wel maybe if the product is molten you will have a some ions but it will detonate).
2)TCAP will not detonate if surrounded/soaking wet in water....
As a matter of facts here is what you get with an ionic equation from HCl and NaOH:
HCl+NaOH-->NaCl+H2O (original equation)
H+ + Cl- + Na+ + OH- -->H2O + Na+ + Cl-
after spreading it into ions, take the ones that are on both side of the equation in a way to simplify it...
H+ + OH- ---> H2O (that's the ionic equation from the general reaction between an acid and a base in aquous media!!!)
So before asking stuppid questions first see waht is the meaning of the words in you question....
With CTAP HCl is there only as a catalyst and thus is there as a very little part of the "reactants" someting like 0.1 mole).
3CH3-CO-CH3 + 3H2O2 + HCl---> CTAP + 3 H2O + HCl
Only HCl can be ionised in a significant quantity here thus you get the trivial equation:
HCl --> HCl
H+ + Cl- --> H+ + Cl-
and after simplification
....--->....
Thus the ionic equation of the making of the CTAP is
3CH3-CO-CH3 + 3H2O2--> CTAP + 3H2O
(nothing really new under the sun).
Clear? Anyway learn chemistry better
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 15, 2001 07:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ah..yeah..what he said =)
*cough* wtf?
OxYdiSer
A new voice
Posts: 12
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 16, 2001 03:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tanks...fucking tanks
It's alright, I passed year 9 chemistry for shit's sake.
Perhaps I should have rephrased my questions ,but thanks anyway.
Anyone got the equation for detonation of *dry* AP? Plz include heat of reaction.
Also, wtf is CTAP?
[This message has been edited by OxYdiSer (edited February 16, 2001).]
wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 16, 2001 07:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTAP = Cyclotriacetoneperoxide
------------------
for best catfood visit:
catfood.tsx.org
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 16, 2001 08:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah cyclotriacetonperoxyde is CTAP!
TCAP would be tricycloacetonperoxyde!
But as everybody knows here (it seems it is not the case right?)there is only one loop in the molecule and thus there might not be three rings!!!!!
After 9 years chemistry, you can't figure out what is the equation of detonation???? Where have you studied?
Anyway
(-C(CH3)2-O-O-)3
--->3CO2 + 6C + 9H2
or
--->6CO + 3C + 9H2
or
--->3CO + 6C + 3H2O + 6H2
or
--->9C + 6H2O + 3H2
I think the truth is between all those forms (it depends on the pressure, on the quantity of starting detonating material and on the amount of heat reached).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Crux
Frequent Poster
Posts: 71
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 16, 2001 11:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILOU Zrealone i think he ment year 9 chemistry as it year 9 at school not that he as been doing chemistry for 9 years
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 16, 2001 01:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am currently in year nine, and I'm on my first year of chemistry, and I vaguely know what PHILOU's talking about, just enough for me to understand.
This newbie guy is prolly 14.
A new voice
Posts: 12
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 14, 2001 06:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allright...a couple of questions from a newbie.
1) What are the full ionic equations for:
a)the sythesis and
b)the detonation of acetone peroxide
2) I have been using film canisters as containers for my AP and I was wondering if wrapping the canister with several layers of duct tape would significantly increase the power of the explosion.
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 14, 2001 12:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well...as for ionic equations..i have NFI
but, yes wraping the canister in duct tape will increase the power...
this is a matchbox full of AP wrapped in about 2m of masking tape
this is what that same matchbox did to a 8h x 12w inch biscut tin
it left a crater about 30cm across, 10cm deep
and we still can't find the missing side to the tin...
however, we had an identical biscut tin, and matchbox full of AP that WASN'T wrapped with anything, and it barely even put a hole thru the lid...(no pics of that one...)
neither tin was held down, nore were the lids held on with anything..
[This message has been edited by Mick (edited February 14, 2001).]
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 15, 2001 05:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is no ionic equations for the CTAP nor for the detonation equation because:
1) ionic equations does only exists in solution meaning a solvant is present (wel maybe if the product is molten you will have a some ions but it will detonate).
2)TCAP will not detonate if surrounded/soaking wet in water....
As a matter of facts here is what you get with an ionic equation from HCl and NaOH:
HCl+NaOH-->NaCl+H2O (original equation)
H+ + Cl- + Na+ + OH- -->H2O + Na+ + Cl-
after spreading it into ions, take the ones that are on both side of the equation in a way to simplify it...
H+ + OH- ---> H2O (that's the ionic equation from the general reaction between an acid and a base in aquous media!!!)
So before asking stuppid questions first see waht is the meaning of the words in you question....
With CTAP HCl is there only as a catalyst and thus is there as a very little part of the "reactants" someting like 0.1 mole).
3CH3-CO-CH3 + 3H2O2 + HCl---> CTAP + 3 H2O + HCl
Only HCl can be ionised in a significant quantity here thus you get the trivial equation:
HCl --> HCl
H+ + Cl- --> H+ + Cl-
and after simplification
....--->....
Thus the ionic equation of the making of the CTAP is
3CH3-CO-CH3 + 3H2O2--> CTAP + 3H2O
(nothing really new under the sun).
Clear? Anyway learn chemistry better
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Mick
Frequent Poster
Posts: 229
From:
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 15, 2001 07:57 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ah..yeah..what he said =)
*cough* wtf?
OxYdiSer
A new voice
Posts: 12
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 16, 2001 03:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tanks...fucking tanks
It's alright, I passed year 9 chemistry for shit's sake.
Perhaps I should have rephrased my questions ,but thanks anyway.
Anyone got the equation for detonation of *dry* AP? Plz include heat of reaction.
Also, wtf is CTAP?
[This message has been edited by OxYdiSer (edited February 16, 2001).]
wantsomfet
Frequent Poster
Posts: 233
From: EU
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 16, 2001 07:03 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CTAP = Cyclotriacetoneperoxide
------------------
for best catfood visit:
catfood.tsx.org
PHILOU Zrealone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 479
From: Brussels,Belgium,Europe
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 16, 2001 08:39 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah cyclotriacetonperoxyde is CTAP!
TCAP would be tricycloacetonperoxyde!
But as everybody knows here (it seems it is not the case right?)there is only one loop in the molecule and thus there might not be three rings!!!!!
After 9 years chemistry, you can't figure out what is the equation of detonation???? Where have you studied?
Anyway
(-C(CH3)2-O-O-)3
--->3CO2 + 6C + 9H2
or
--->6CO + 3C + 9H2
or
--->3CO + 6C + 3H2O + 6H2
or
--->9C + 6H2O + 3H2
I think the truth is between all those forms (it depends on the pressure, on the quantity of starting detonating material and on the amount of heat reached).
------------------
"Life that deadly disease sexually transmitted".
"Chemistry is all what stinks and explode; Physic is all what never works! ;-p :-) :o )"
Crux
Frequent Poster
Posts: 71
From: australia
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 16, 2001 11:40 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHILOU Zrealone i think he ment year 9 chemistry as it year 9 at school not that he as been doing chemistry for 9 years
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 16, 2001 01:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am currently in year nine, and I'm on my first year of chemistry, and I vaguely know what PHILOU's talking about, just enough for me to understand.
This newbie guy is prolly 14.