Anwax

[Sonny Jim]

Hi everyone. I've just purified 190g AN

http://angry_jack.tripod.com/an.html

I would like to try ANWax, I hear from what DBSB said it is quite sensetive. Has anyone some experience with it, advice etc? Ill have pics of the detonation if succesful.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Its quite sensitive and poweful but personally im too lazy to heat the AN/wax for a simple anfo explosive when i can just pour the fuel into the AN. You could dissolve wax, add it to the AN and let the solvent evaporate. But thats kind of a waste becuase you could have most likely just used the solvent you evaporated off to make a similarly sensitive anfo in the first place.

One mix i do like that requires heating to properaly mix the fuel is AN 92.5, DNT 3.5, and paraffin wax 3.5. According to federoff it, can reach a VoD of 5000 m/s at high density. That still seems a little hopeful to me though.

[Sonny Jim]

Thanks Alen.

Im going away for 2 weeks on Monday, and want to leave with a bang, as it were. Therefore, I need something fast that I have all the chems for already, and ANWAX fits that description.

Do you think 5g pressed AP would initiate a 200g ANWAX charge encased in a kitchen paper tube? If not I'm preparing some HMTD just incase.

[xyz]

5g of AP should be fine but I'm not sure about pressing the ANWax. Most AN explosives work best (in terms of sensitivity) when they are loose in their casing with little or no packing. When I have dreamed about testing cap sensitive ANFOs, pressed charges would not detonate but loose powder ones would.

EDIT: Oops, I thought you said packed into a kitchen paper tube...

[GibboNet]

Here's a newbie type question: What sort of wax ?

This sounds a lot easier / more powerful than a lot of AN based explosives.

Also, with any wax, surely you wouldn't need to pack it, whether you wanted to or not, as the wax would be quite dense, and fill all the gaps in the AN.

[Mumble]

I would imagine that paraffin would be a very ecconomical choice. Its easily available and sensitises the AN quite well. I have seen both liquid and solid paraffins however. I believe some experimentation may be in order. I would imagine a solid paraffin would result in a solid mass upon completion of heating. Breaking up may be an option. As mentioned in a previous similarly to a pressed charge. The amount of paraffin neccesary to properly sensitise the AN, may not be enough to result in a solid block. Having never attempted an experiment anywhere similar to this, the end product is just speculation at this point. Perhaps someone could come up with a proper ratio. A fair esimate is around 6% sensitiser. The 6% seems a pretty standard figure in several ANFO type mixtures I've read about.

[xyz]

Floor Polish Wax supposedly works well

3% Wax is a good ratio for all ANWax Comps.

[DBSP]

I've described the ANWAX comp I've been using a few times. Serach and I belive you will find those discriptions.

I've used fert. grade AN powdered with 3% floor polish+1%acetone and sometimes a few grams of Al.

I've allways used it just poured into the container. I had a complete det the first time I tried it with a 4g det. I've just got back from my vacation and with me I have brought a vid of a partial det of a 7 months old 150g charge, in the same container as it was packed and sealed in in the first place. I used a .22WM shell with PETN+a .22LR witth AP as det.

I've also got a vid of a 150g ANWAX charge together with 100g ANNM.

Still haven't got any FTP so I can't get you those vids right now.

I've thought about melting parafin wax in a bowl slowly adding AN to it while stirring to make an even mix of parafin and AN. When the wax has solidified the mix should be a bit crumbly and have a reasonably low density. Should be easy to detonate with 3% wax.

Might actually try that today.

[DBSP]

I tried it:

I melted 4g of parafin wax in a glass beaker and aded a table spoon of AN and stirred it well then another spoon and so on untill 96g of AN had been added. I was however not shure how well mixed it was since most of the wax was soaked in the first spoons of AN. So i put it in my grinder and ran it for about 20 seconds. The result was a very finely powdered very smooth mixture wich I put in a plastic bag.

And lucky as I where a friend of mine came to visit this evening as we where going to lay some fishin nets in the nearby lake. Perfect to bring it then so I quickly made one of the above mentioned PETN dets and brought it along. After we had finshed putting the nets out I taped the charge to a small rock to insure that it would sink, taped the det to it and lit the fuse. After 10secs under water a thud was heard and the surface curled itself up. I can't say anything else than that it was a complete detonation. The water at the place I put the charge isn't very deep but not even a partial det will do what that charge did. Lots of gases was released from the bottom sediments so it had been disturbed quite alot which is a good sign.

I wouldn't mind of anyone else would have a go at it using the same ratios and ammounts as I did so that my results can be verified.

UPDATE: made a nother charge this morning, complete detonation with the same PETN det. Seemes to work really well. And it's better than my original ANWAX comp. scince no liquid is involved. this could easily be made up in batch and then store in airtight bottles.

[Mr Cool]

Great. Any idea of the density that you used?
I don't like the idea of non-pressed charges (ie, just tamped for low density), in case they settle in transport or whatever, and this would mean that density could vary from charge to charge. But I have about a gallon of microspheres, which could be easily mixed in, and then the charge pressed, to give consistent, even, precisely known low densities, with no risk of settling.
I would like to give it a go, I've just thought of a new testing site with a river that I could use. I'm planning on going down tonight to have a look, and if it's suitable I might try some charges there soon. No pics of the blast will be available because it'd be done at night, but I could get pics of the charge, and a witness plate.

[xyz]

With cap sensitive ANFOs that need to be loose in the casing, I just give them a gentle shake after transport to loosen up th powder again.

[Desmikes]

Guys forgive me for being way off topic... Mr. Cool, you mentioned that you had a lot of microspheres, where did you get them/is it possible to get them in small quantities? Is it necessary to use them in NM plastique if you don't mind using a powerful primer?

[Mr Cool]

Microspheres are sold as a filler to "bulk out" polyester resins. My source sells them at about £5/kg. I think any place that sells polyester resins or fibreglass-shaping products will sell them.
They are not necessary for ANNM, but they help with other, less sensitive AN mixtures.

[DBSP]

I just made another 100g charge using the exact same method as for the last two charges and this time I documented the whole precedure with my camera.

The pictures are availible from the link below. Klick ANWAX to view the pictures.
http://www.imagestation.com/members/DBSPs_photos


The density when simply poured into the meassuring device is 0,8g/cc.

When i knocked at the charge with my fingers for a while for it to settle a bit the density rose to 0,9g/cc.

And when i finally pressed it with a shotshell by hand the density ended up at 1,05g/cc. One would have to remember that the meassuring device is made out of plastic and it had a crack in it so I didn't want to bust it by pressing to hard, thus the densiy could probably be improoved by using a more rigid container and a better press. I belive that 1.2g/cc should be reasonably easy to reach.

Conclusion: Mr Cool I don't think that you would have to worry about inconcistant desnity when not packing it since it seemes to settle really easy on it's own(within reasonable limits that is). look at the pics. When I had left the ANWAX poured in for about 3 minutes and I where to get it out I could put the charge upside down without it falling of of the meassuring device. After a bit of knocking I was able to get the charge out in one piece with very little loose powder. (haven't got that on photo though)


And finally I would like to recomend sonys image station for upploading pics, no size limit it seemes .mpegs are also allowed. www.imagestation.com

edit: Shouldn't this be moved to HE soon? this thread does contain some relevent info by now.

[Sonny Jim]

The day before I went on holiday, 16 days ago, I blew up 200g ANWAX.

I used the 2% acetone, 2% floor wax (blue, nasty smelling gunge), and 1% Al powder.

I buried it in hard ground and detonated it with 8g or lightly pressed HMTD inside a marker pen casing. The main casing fot the charge was a tube that kitchen paper is wrapped around.

I'm sure it was a complete det. Slow playback of a partial video clip revealed that first, a considerable amount of smoke was released upwards, followed by a load of dirt and debris. The crater was a good bit bigger than the hole dug (about 50cm across, 30cm deep, at a guess.

The smoke dissipated very fast.

I'm going to do a 500g charge very soon, and the results will be posted in my site with a possible video.

Speaking of which.

My site has moved, to http://vectec.net. You may be interested in vectec as they offer free 750 megs of ad free space to anyone. They are in the UK so service is especially good if you live here (UK). Perhaps some fellow UK based members with sites should have a look there, I know Mr. Cool has a site and is English.

With regard to my site, an aquaintance of mine and I have came to an arrangement, in that he soups up the site's appearance in order to lift the boring basic HTML presentation I am capable of. Things are still coming together, but a sample can be seen at http://vectec.net/angryjack/acetoneperoxide.html.

[DBSP]

I detonated the charge last night. This time I only got a partial detonation using the same det as before. It might have been due to the fact that I pressed this charge a bit harder into the bag. Anyway this have made me a bit concerned and I will probably try some additional charges with better casings to make it a bit easier to controle the density.

It seemes just like the ANWAX I used to make Sonny jim, I've allso noticed the the smoke seemed to go away quite easily, not like the smoke of ANNM that stays hanging in the air for several minutes after detonation.

Why don't you try a charge using only the floor polish (3%) to determine wether it is that that sensitizes the AN and not the acetone alone.

Did you get that charge of video or what? I don't quite get it. Hope you did anyway.

I added 2 funny pics I got from the detonation of the last charge to the ANWAX album, link in my sig. The Video i spoke about erlier of the partial detonation is avalible in the video album.

[Sonny Jim]

I intended to video it, and brought along a mate with a digicam that has a video function. It has no sound, but still, on dummy runs filming random things it performed OK.

So we set everything ready, and when the charge went off my mate deopped the camera. He says it's because the shockwave knocked him back, causing him to drop the camera. I was behind a concrete wall managing the electrical detonation so I can't say whether that's true, as I was largely protected by the wall.

The bit of the tape we got showed just what I described earlier; that's how I was able to notice the details of the smoke etc, on slow playback. Unfortunately, me going on holiday the day after the charge has lead to the partial video going the way of the deleted.

However, I'm doing 500g ANWAX very soon, and will do my best to blag a camera for that. I'll tell you if the video comes out good.

I will test that idea with only floor wax soon, but for the 500g charge (as it takes a bit of effort for me to put something that big together) I will stick to the formula I know works.

[DBSP]

I made a quick search for microspheres erlier today and I found a page that belonged to what seemed to be a small company. Anyway the spheres where cheap only 3$/0,5l so I ordered a liter of it + 200ml of liquid wax which he allso sold, 2,5$/100ml.

I will hopefully recieve the package before the end of the week in which case I'll be doing some testing.

The liquid wax will shurely make the ANWAX much easier to mix since it doesn't need to be melted. It will allso probably spread out much more even througout the charge.

I'm not shure of which density I will pack it though, any ideas? A density of about 0,7g/cc should be easily detonated by my standard cap.

If we assume that the density of the ANWAX when pressed alone by hand is ~1g/cc then to get the 0,7g/cc density I would have to add: (assuming 100g charge)

0,7=100/X, then X=100/0,7= ~143, 143-100=43ml of microspheres. Or simply:
weight of charge x wanted density = total volume of explosive and then: total volume of explosive - weight of charge=volume of microspheres to add.

That was probably unnessesary but still.

[ancalagon]

I melted 4g of parafin wax
I don't know if this will be of any use, but you can get pretty pure parrafin oil for lamps (I saw a bottle in a hardware store the other day for around three dollars). I was thinking one might be able to mix this with something like MINIWAX wax for wood or some other type of combustible wax (of which there are many) to add more power and less effort. After all, it is already in liquid form, which means less melting.

-Ancalagon

[DBSP]

Allthough I'm not shure wether the parafin wax and the parafin oil is only a variety of the same thing I know that Xoo1246 tried a charge using parafin oil which failed, I don't remember why it failed but it did. This is the only attemt using the oil I know of. If any one else has any experiense using the oil plase let us know.

The liquid wax I just ordered will probably work very well because of the obvious advantages of a liquid when mixing the AN and wax. The solid wax I have been using so far could allso be used as a liquid if the temp of the AN+wax is held at 60* C using a boiling waterbath or something similar. This is because the solid wax melts at 50-52* C. The heat might allso increase the rate at wich the AN sucks up the melted wax.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Paraffin oil and paraffin wax are different. Paraffin oil is kerosene.

[Sonny Jim]

I had a problem today.

I misjudged the dryness of my AP for the detonator, and it failed to set off the ANWAX. Fortunately, I have been able to salvage most of the ANWAX, so I hope to detonate it as soon as I can make some more AP.

That will be in 2 days. Will the ANWAX still be OK? I've put it back into a ziplock bag. Also, some shattered plastic got mixed up with the ANWAX. It will be a pain but not impossible to remove. Is there any point in removing the plastic or should the charge work OK with a little plastic in there?

[ancalagon]

Paraffin oil and paraffin wax are different. Paraffin oil is kerosene.
Right, but are they so different chemically that with some modifications (like mixing liquid wax with parrafin oil) that paraffin oil is useless?

-Ancalagon

[zeocrash]

i'm not sure quite what you're trying to say.
i dont know why ANK (AN kerosene) failed. i'd have thought that it would have worked better than ANWAX, being a shorter hydrocarbon chain than parafin wax. does anyone know how the length of the hydrocarbon chain affects the sensitising power of the substance, or whether different homolgous serieses (not sure of the plural) sensitise more than others.

[cutefix]

I do not think it has something to do with hydrocarbon chain length.
As long as the fuel was added in appropriate proportion to suitable type of ammonium nitrate , the mixture is oxygen balanced and it was initiated with proper amount of initiating explosive it will surely detonate.
If it fails It may have to do with being at inappropriate density or even compactness that there were not enough void spaces to function as invisible microspheres as sensitizing point for the initiation sequence.

[X-Wulf]

If the parrafin wax and AN were melted together and then allowed to harden, it would form a relatively dense waxy solid, correct? Now what if another caking agent were added whilst mixture were still molten, something which didn't react with either the wax or the AN, didn't effect the detonation, and yet allowed for the product to be extremely hard when it was allowed to cool ... then we may be in business!

"But that's going to be waaaayyyy too dense!" I hear you say...
Indeed it will be, but if we now carefully grind up our cake (it should be fairly insensitive, and thus this is possible), we'll end up with some nice grains - ala black powder.
The size of these grains can be regulated, and hence the explosive's density when placed in the container. If all the grains are of a certain size, and all are relatively hard, settling shouldn't be too much of a problem.
The problem comes into finding the above mentioned caking agent :confused:

I'll do some serious researching and experimenting this weekend when I have some more time.

[Mr Cool]

What about polyester resin? It's very flammable, I can't see why it wouldn't work as the fuel component, and it sets rock hard. But would the few % be enough to bind it all together well..?
ANResin is something that I've been thinking about; mix up AN with microspheres and resin, press it into a casing and it should hopefully set to a relatively hard, durable solid. Pressing it might be essential if you want it hard, it would get everything in a more intimate contact with the resin.
But then I think about how hard this would be, compared to how easy things like ANWAX are, and therefore I have never tried because I can't really see it having any advantages.

That graining idea is nice. Does anyone know if there is a max/min size that the voids have to be in order to sensitise the mixture? Or does it not matter as long as they are evenly spread out in the charge?

[DBSP]

I just recieved my wax and microspheres. Cost me 16,5$ Unfortunately I'm on a REALY tight scheduel this weekend so I don't belive I will have time to test it untill next week. The liquid wax seemes to be solid wax dissloved ina solvent, I recognize the smell of it but I can't really tell what it is. It could be chemically clean gasoline, thats what I belive it smells like at least. I'll see if I can dig up a bottle of clean gas and see if it has the same smell. I took a pic of the spheres and the wax and put it in the ANWAX album, check my sig. The pic is called 2x100ml.....

The idea of melting wax and AN together is great, only that all the parafin would have evapourated by the time it has cooled down, the wax has a MP of about 50* C and the MP of AN is something like a 160* C os omething so that will be a problem, otherwise the idea is great.

Perhaps a small ammount of NC dissolved in acetone could be mixed into the ANWAX to make it settle and harden. IF it would work maby it could then be crushed like suggested. Might try it..

[Blackhawk]

You really don't need to melt the AN if you want to bind it with the wax. Taking a leaf out of amature rocketry where the binder is melted (or not yet cured) and the oxidiser and fuel particles are suspended in it, this seems to produce good results for them. If you can get a very high solids loading in the melted wax AN mix (so much AN that the mix is sticky but not fluid) would it still be cap sensetive?, you could also possibly bubble air through the mix while the wax sets to create voids in the final solid but it would probably be unnecessary if you had the microspheres.

[Mr Cool]

Well, I went to the river that I thought could be used for a testing site, but it was in clear view from a load of houses. I was going to walk down stream to see what it was like, but it started raining. And I was just about to set off to have another look five minutes ago, but it started raining again...

Also my brother's stolen my microspheres (he does some work with fibreglass occaisionally) and taken them down to Wales with him, so I'll just have to use a loosely packed powder when I do try it.

"this seems to produce good results for them"

Yes, but they generally use a great deal more than 4% binder. 10-20% or more is common. I don't know how much wax you could have in ANWAX for it to still be detonatable by a cap.

[roadrunner76]

I read in one of the cookbooks by Tim Lewis that Instant Coffee can be used to
substitute for Microspheres. Going to try with ANWAX prep and will post the formulae and results.

[Maniak]

yes, I looked the same. I think, that there is an emulzifier or something similar in instant coffee...some ingredient in instant coffea ensure suspension of small parts of coffee.
Some US patents recomend use of naphtalen sulphonic salts, maybe for disperzing particles of fuel...

[deadsexy]

I know this is my first post and I hope this is a good enough contribution to the thread. Ok I have been curious about ANWAX for awhile now so I finally decided to try it out, because of its ease and power. Today I successfully detonated a 50 gram (I know it isn't much but I like to start small and go big) charge of it with ~7 grams of pressed AP in a parallel wound tube. My mixture was as follows 43 grams of AN, 2 grams of paraffin wax, 2g of acetone, and 1 gram of Al. Sonny Jim had recommended this mixture to me and my thanks goes out to him, and I think he got it from DBSP so I give him credit also. The only think that seemed wierd to me was that when I melted the paraffin and added the AN, stirred, added more and so forth, when the mixture cooled it was a solid in my beaker. When I took it out it looked like a white cookie. I am wondering if this has happened to anyone else. I disposed of this problem easily by using the mortar and pestle. Then added the acetone, then the Al. Sorry I do not have any pictures or movies, I will the next time I do it.

I heard that some people are not sure about whether it is the acetone or the wax that sensitizes the AN. So I am going to be doing some tests soon. I will try just wax and then just acetone. If anyone has any other test that they would like me to try please let me know.

I am pretty sure it is the wax because it is a petroleum product and in a way ANWAX is just a different form of ANFO. But I would like to see if the acetone can do it.

[DBSP]

I made a nother charge a weak ago. Same 100g charge + 40ml of microspheres,. I used the blender to mix the ANWAX and the spheres together. When poured the density was 0,62 g/cc and when shaken a bit 0,66g/cc. When tapped with a shotshell 0,71 g/cc and when pressed by hand with a shotshell in the plastic meassuring cup 0,83 g/cc.

I had calculated the ammount of spheres so that the density would end up at 0,7g/cc when pressed. I did however make a mistake, I added 40ml of loose microspheres and not 40ml pressed with the same force as the first ANWAX charge(1 g/cc with hand force). This meant that the density ended up 0,1g/cc more than the calculated. This problem is easily solved by pressing the spheres by hand into a 40ml vessel.

The charge has been pressed to 0,8g/cc into a thick walled paper pipe(55mm dia). I will try it as soon as I can, but it's not easy to find a spare hour these days when I both go to school, work and hunt all day every day. I haven't had a free hour since last friday infact.

[FrankRizzo]

This may or may not be helpful, but a good solvent for paraffin wax (candle makers) is xylene. DBSP, this may have been the solvent in that liquid wax you ordered. Since xylene is also a good fuel for use in ANFO mixtures, you may not even have to evaporate it off before using (assuming you OB for the additional hydrocarbons). Anyway, just an idea to throw around.

[DBSP]

I haven't got a clue about how xylene smells so it might that thw wax is dissolved in. I have had the two bottles standing untuched for a couple of weaks now and the wax has settled against the bottom of the bottle. The border between the wax and the solvent is now about 4/10 from the bottom so it isn't a very high ammount of wax in it, unless of course some of it has been totally dissolved.

I have made some attempts dissolving parafin wax in petrol and other solvents, I have yet to see if and which works best.

I'm currently in school so I can't go into detail right now but I'll keep you posted..

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Acetone seems to dissolve polowax quite well. I dont know about paraffin though.

I've never made straight AN/Wax, but i've made AN/DNT/Wax. I've found the best way ensure that it's well mixted is to heat up the AN in beaker, and add the wax in small amounts, while stirring. After you add all of wax, continue heating and stirring for 10 minutes.

[DBSP]

I've detonated the last prepared charge using the same det as before however I am again not shure wether it was a complete det. My instinct tells me it wasn't.

Next attempt will be done with a larger booster, probably 2g HMTD.

As I've said before I've tried dissolving wax in various solvents. One attempt seemed to work quite well, I dissolved the parafin wax in chemically pure gasoline (which might be hexane). At first things went very slow but after half a day the prills in the gas had become very fluffy and after I shook it around a bit and let it settle it had become more or less a solid but mushy lump which lets some gas out of it when the filmcan it's in is squeesed.

It would probably be very easy just to weight out the ingredients (assuming you know the ammount of wax in the gasoline) and just put it together in a blender and mix it a half a minute(or less). And then add the microspheres if one would like such in the mixture. Letting the gasoline evapourate might also be a good idea.

[metal dragon]

(this is all a dream and has never or will never happen)
Hello,
This explosive seems to be a very versatile and powerful explosive for its ease of preparation. I intend to make this my first AN explosive other than ammonpluver. I don’t have much experience with AP but what would be a safe method of storing AP in a car for around 1 hour or so? Also what would be the minium amount of AP (un-pressed) needed to detonate this explosive? When this charge has been detonated I would be more then willing to archive my results for the rest of you to see. My ratio will contain 10 grams of wax to 140 grams of AN (prilled, from instant cold packs) Thank you very much

[palpy]

don't use prilled AN - grind and dry it, then mix with the wax and seal to avoid moisture.
this will considerably increase sensitivity and thus lower the amount of AP needed.
umm, I think using less than 5g is pointless, but that's also more than I would like to handle personally... :/

[bobo]

Perhaps the amount of AP for ANWAX is on this forum, but isn't it better to use some sort of booster than just add a shitload of AP? APAN by itself seems rather safe because it does not burn with a fuse, however I don't know how it behaves against friction. Of course, pressing the AP into the booster will give you the good feeling you're doing something you might regret later on. Then again, some ppl on this forum write about pressing 200g and such numbers of AP into tubes.

I press my AP dry with a long wooden rod and use 1-1.5 g. This will detonate the amount of APAN enough to shatter a pavement tile. It is not advised by the more experienced ppl here to do this dry I think, but it never went off under my nose yet. I assemble the booster in advance and the explosive on the spot...

[Sonny Jim]

ANWAX doesn't need much primary to set it off anyway, so there's no point in using a booster really.

[xyz]

You would find a booster easier if you have a suitably sensitive HE (RDX, PETN, TNT, etc.) that you can use 5g of as a booster, then you only need about 0.75g of AP to set that off. This greatly reduces the amount of AP you have to handle (store the cap and booster seperately, the fact that there is less AP isn't going to help if it has 5g of PETN next to it) .

I have made many different cap sensitive AN comps before and I have found that although most of the time they will detonate from a few grams of AP, I use a 10-20g APAN booster just to be sure.

Using an APAN booster makes the charge more reliable but still only uses the same amount of AP. You use a 2g det. with a 20g APAN booster, as opposed to a 4g det.

Of course, I would be using a suitable HE (RDX, PETN, TNT, etc.) if I had access to the precursors to make it. As of now however, 10 - 20g of APAN works fine.

[Sonny Jim]

This may be straying a bit, and for that I apologise, but I was always under the impression that RDX and especially TNT were very insensetive explosives. 0.75g AP? You sure?

[bobo]

Originally posted by xyz
the fact that there is less AP isn't going to help if it has 5g of PETN next to it) .



How do you handle the boosters and dets then? I put the cap in the booster and then make sure the things are well fixed and when I insert it in the AN comp there is no disturbance of the AP. I would rather have APAN go off near me than near me and inside the main charge.

[xyz]

I think you have misunderstood me bobo, what I meant was that you store the detonator and booster seperately (for the reason you have just mentioned), but of course you still assemble them for use in the charge:) .

Sonny Jim, Yes, TNT and RDX are fairly insensitive, I was very tired when I wrote that post, PETN will initiate fine from that much AP though.

[palpy]

PETN is not much more sensitive than RDX. Both are used in industrial blasting caps and initiated by just some 300mg of Pb(N3)2. And AP is comparable to lead azide as an initiator.
TNT is of course something else - not sure with 0,75g AP initiating crystalline TNT, but I'm pretty sure it won't initiate cast TNT

[andyboy]

I tried detonating 997 grams off AN/WAX with a 182 gram AN/NM/AL booster charge set off by a 5 gram AP-cap. I only got a partial det (I think the only thing that detonated was the AN/NM/AL ).

I was wondering if it might have been the wax that i used, i used 50 grams of "microcrystall wax" to 955 grams of AN the wax contains mostly parraffin and some stearine.

The question is if i used the right kind of wax, it should be the right proportions (close to the ones used by DBSP), could the stearine disturb the mix to cause this or could i have done something else wrong (i followed DBSP's instructions and was careful to loosen the mix up after transportation).

I have the movies if anyone might be interested
http://a.domaindlx.com/andyboy/Pictures2.htm
http://a.domaindlx.com/andyboy/Pictures3.htm

[Sonny Jim]

Every wax I have tried has worked. I would say there is something else wrong with your composition.

Many AN compositions do not perform well unless they are at a suitable low density. You did not mention density in your post, so I assume you were not aware of this. Chances are therefore, that your composition was at too high a density hence the incomplete det, as the booster was definately large enough.

Search for microsperes. The addition of these will allow you to press your AN comps to a uniform density, but not result in the high density that would result from pressing without the microspheres.

[andyboy]

Then i really don't understand it because i had the charge in a small plastic bag and i shook it a bit to loosen it up becuse it had settled during transport.

I was aware that AN-based explosives need to be at a relativly low density to ensure full dets but might be that i didn't shake it well enough.

I will try to get ahold of microspheres though, as i am a total newbie at AN-based explosives i value all advice on this matter.

Your signature is not allowed here, use an ordinary link or just plain text if you wan't one. Skip that flashy shit.

DBSP..

[shooter3]

Most AN based explosives need strong confinment. A plastic baggie will work if it is a bore hole.

[andyboy]

Ok, that might have been the problem then. I used plastic baggies for the AN/NM/AL charge and it worked fine so i didn't even consider confining the AN/WAX charge.

But i don't know what the other people here use, will it be sufficent with a PVC-pipe with a 10cm inside radius?

I read in the imfan.pdf from wantsomfet's that you could use a 2 inch diameter tin-can for setting of ANFO, would this work with anwax?

[Sonny Jim]

Yes. Wider casings will serve you better, as they help large charges sustain their own detonations so partial dets are less likely. Just remember not to allow the composition to cake inside the tube. If you don't add microspheres, tap the tube of ANWAX on the ground quite firmly to loosen it up just prior to detonation. Sometimes when I can't be arsed to go to the model shop I do this, and the density due to shaking has been low and uniform enough to result in a complete det.

Another good form of confinement where no good casings are available is to simply bury the charge in a plastic bag.

[Cyclonite]

If all else fails you could add a few % of AP to make it easier to get going, it really shouldn't be needed but it would help.

[xyz]

Cyclonite, one of my favourite cap sensitive AN mixtures for small charges is 2% AP, 6% KNO3, 7% Petrol, and 85% Finely Powdered AN.

The 2 percent AP makes it more sensitive and reliable, but it means that amounts larger than 500g or so use too much AP to be worth it.

[PIB]

Today, i tried to detonate 250gr of ANWAX (97% An + 3% Parrafin), the detonator was 5gr of pressed HMTD. But the detonation was not full detonation, it was a part of a charge. What do you think?

http://www7.brinkster.com/guidoji/setup2.jpg
http://www7.brinkster.com/guidoji/boom2.jpg
http://www7.brinkster.com/guidoji/movie.zip

[Sonny Jim]

It won't let me view your media. I don't think your det is at fault here, it was quite big, although you may want to try a booster such as APAN or ANNM.

I think you should add a small amount (about 1%) Al powder to your composition to sensetise it. Also, have you any idea as to the charge density? This is a potential problem with ANWAX, too high a density means incomplete dets. What was the diameter of the ANWAX container?

[PIB]

I cant obtain Al powder.
I dont kwnow what was the density of the charge, but i wasnt compressed...

http://quimicarg.webcindario.com/setup2.jpg
http://quimicarg.webcindario.com/boom2.jpg

[Sonny Jim]

Try mixing your wax with an equal mass of solvent to thin it out, to make it easier to mix well in with the AN.

[PIB]

YEAH!.. i obtained Al powder...

On question..
Can i melt the AN and add to it the melted parrafin and later the AL powder..
then i mix it.. and let it cold... later i grind the mixture...
what do you think?

[Ropik]

When I read this, I think "Hey, the FM 5-250 must be wrong, or not???" because this manual(Explosives and demolitions) suggest AN/wax in ratio 4/1. It seems overfueled, am I right?

[nbk2000]

They also say to use a pound or more of TNT or C-4 as a priming charge to set it off, as the military manual is assuming you're having to make ANWAX as an expedient charge and don't have time to grind, dry, weigh, etc. as you would to make it an optimized charge like we would.

[KrIsPy]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but the HE section isn't to lively so I thought I'd ask:

What is the minimum size charge for ANWAX explosives? I would guess somewhere between anfo's and annm's, but have no way of knowing. I've seen annm detonated in as small amounts as 30g. (not related to ANWAX)

I made 30g ANWAX because that's all the AN I had, but its probably to little to detonate. I mixed in maybe 3% AP with the 3% paraffin and 2% acetone to try to further sensitize it.

I was thinking a small booster might help it out, if it is possible to detonate. Maybe just some APAN would help it detonate.

As for microshperes, and replacing them with coffee grounds, I have read in "kitchen improvised fertilizer explosives" that the coffee grounds should be dehydrated (dried), but I was curious about how fine they should be. I know about how big microshpheres are from labs, so I guess like the big instant coffee containers like Folgers are fine enough, right?

Last, and a little off topic. Xylene is used to sensitize AN, but I thought I red somewhere on the forum that it can be used like NM and ANX will be about equal in power to ANNM. I've also red sources that say otherwise. So my question is, would ANX (no nm) more powerful than ANWAX and ANFO and would the power increase be worth the extra money? If any good, would the percentages be more like those sued for ANNM or ANFO?

[209]

Hmmm....

Are you talking about a casing for the ANwax?? Personally I usually don't make AN based charges less than 90 grams because there frankly isn't much point. I guess you can just make a big AP charge, that will suffice. I am curious though, Its rare that I go so far as to make a primary, secondary and then bother with a main charge. How do you guys go about transporting them and setting them up? Dealing with all three must be pretty intimidating because if the primary gets angry and goes off and your holding onto it - oh jeez. After the smoke clears, there would be little to clean up.:(

[nbk2000]

You don't stick the detonator into the main charge until just before you set it off. Transporting a charge with the detonator already in it, except in war, is stupid.

I also don't see any point in such small ANWAX charges, as it's a very low powered (and insensitive) explosive, suitable only for earth moving and similar demolition jobs.

[tomu]

The density and crystal phase of AN is very important in regard of it's sensitivity to initiation.

To get the right low density crystal phase the AN should be heated between 33° C and 84 ° C for a period of several hours it also dries the AN to the required low water content.

Besides the low density crystal phase the AN should not be packed/loaded tightly into a container.

Also the content of combustible material is very important, too much of it desensitizes the AN.

Quote:
***
Cook and Talbot found that the highest sensitiveness of ammonium nitrate to initiation by detonation exists when ammonium nitrate contains 0.75-1.5% of paraffin oil.It can be detonated by a No6 detonator.

Brinkly and Gordon have shown that some compositions can be brought to detonation with considerable ease, and the maximum sensitiveness is at ca. 2.4% of oil content.

This was confirmed by Van Dolah.The latter also determined the rate of detonation of paper cartridges of prilled ammonium nitrate with 4% fuel oil at a density of 0.95 in a 1.25 in dia------2980m/sec(No 8 detonator) in 1.87 in dia ------3750-3760m/sec (No 6 and 8 detonators).
***
Unfortunately I forgot where I found this bit information.

So low density and just the right mount of fuel is the key to cap sensitive ANC-explosives.

I recommend reading "Improvised Muntions from Ammonium Nitrate" a Google search will turn it up for you and US Patent No.: 4,093,478

[KrIsPy]

Thanks for the info tomu. I added 3% wax, which is a little much, but I did dry it at 80*c for an hour or so, which I will do agian prior to blasting. Maybe I shouldn't add any acetone since I have a little much wax already.

I personally assemble all my charges at my home and detonate them on my property. I tend to transport them only 30ft or so very carefully once the detonator is in, but I can't put it in last minute because I seal my charges with a sealant first (weak glue).

Since I detonate on my property, which is 5 acres and secluded, but still near a town, I try to avoid charges over 100g or ideally 50g.

I made 30g ANWAX because I had 30g AN. That's all. I also wanted to know if it could be detonated in such small amounts, which is another reason why I made such a small charge.

[tomu]

IIRC the critical diameter for AN/Carbon explosives (ANC) is around 2 inches. My guess is 30 g of ANWAX is just a waste of material, certainly I wouldn't do it.

I would either make a big bang with black powder, flash or AN/Nitric Ester explosives but would stay away from any AN/Carbon explosives with this small a charge even with 100 g.

ANC type of explosives are usually used with quite larger charges of at least the size of several kilograms. For recreational purposes I wouldn't fire charges below 500 g, maybe it detonates with half as much with careful preparation.

I have to admit I'm not exprienced with this type of small charges of ANC explosives.

[KrIsPy]

I understand that it is not routine to make small AN charges, but that is why I am experimenting.

There is a line between big and small charges though. To make 50g of Picric Acid or ETN, both of which I can and have made, is very expensive and not all that safe in terms of stability.

If I had NM, I've seen 30g charges of ANNM, which would be great, but I don't have NM. Therefore, I am looking for alternatives. I'll try this smal asmounnt of ANWAX, but I think I'll look at AN/Xylene, AN/Terpentine or ANFO-k with MnO2 and so on.