Medical Treatment

[knowledgehungry]

As we deal with many, many poisons and such i think it would be good to compile a first aid style guide. From things as simple and minor as treating NG headaches to things as serious as treating 3rd degree burns and HCN poisoning. I may work on it but im not sure whether i would do it as a website PDF or what. Any comments/help is appreciated.

[GibboNet]

I'm sure people here would be help, and I know there are a few people that will be able to give details of accidents they have had, and what injuries they have recieved, big or small.

I have basic military training in burns (chemical, heat, liquid, radiation, friction) haemmoraging (bleeding) Fractures (compound, simple and complicated) Snake bites, Spider bites, and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember now. I can find more information if you like. I also have the lab safety guides and emergency procedures from UNI. (Chem classes)

[yt2095]

I have several surgery manuals, pharmacy handbooks, poisons/antidote guides if you have anything specific in mind, I`de be pleased to help you out :)

[blindreeper]

I (from experience) can tell you what to do in case of chlorine gas poisoning. Your chest will feel tight and your breathing restricted, as you beathe in at a certain ammount of air you will feel extreme pain. So you have to pant. But after a while you will find you can take deaper breaths and you will feel better. Also Ventalin puffers will help if you can get it down to the bottom of your lungs (if you do it will cause excrusiating pain)
I felt really hot and sweaty and felt like I was going to throw up (never did).
My mum rang the poisons hotline and they reccomended Ventalin.
I ended up in hospital (20 minutes later) and was feeling much better. I got on the oxygen tank for about an hour and by the end of it was feeling quite happy (didn't know O2 made you feel happy)

My contribution :p

[Imperial]

I have a basic first aid certificate which I completed recently, which means I will be able to cover burn first aid and cut first aid.

As for poisons, I can give many accounts of accidents I have had with them (not not on other people :P). I know their effects, and how to treat some of them.

I will be more than willing to help in this, for I feel that it is important that if we are dealing with explosives, weapons, and poisons, that we can at least do it with some degree of safety. Email me if you would like more information on any aspect of the above.

[knowledgehungry]

Alright i have decided that i will undertake this task. I plan on having a couple of main topics. General first aid(cuts, burns, bruises), treatment of specific chemicals ie chlorine, a list of the hazardous chemicals(and what they do, and how much is lethal), and a prevention section. I am going to first start with the list of chemicals, not all chemicals just those that we use. The task of listing them all is bound to be hard im going to start with megas precursors section, but more will be needed to be added im sure. Fortuantely my father is a doctor so he will most likely have some information of value, or at least be able to translate some of the medical mumbo jumbo that you get on some sites. Well i wont be bored now. If anyone has any ideas/comments you can email me or write them here. I will post my tenative list of chemicals as soon as it is done, just the list not the effects or details as i wont begin that untill i have all the chemicals listed that i should cover.

[knowledgehungry]

Here is a very tenative list, mainly taken from megas precursors. These are only the chemicals, i will also list explosives but not now. Please feel free to comment on additional chemicals to be included, and maybe some that we could do without.

[list removed]

EDIT: edited list added some, removed others, will most likely do again, let me know of any doubles i.e both hexamine and methenamine. Feel free to mention any chems that should be added. Most likely i will delet a good deal of chemicals as i do research on them, if i find they are harmless.

[irish]

This is a very good idea but you have a few non-toxic chemicals in that list, ie calcium carbonate,
water etc.
It may be best (and take less of your time) to just list the more toxic chemicals.
If I can help in any way send me an email,
Good luck with it .

[Mr Cool]

I'd cut it down to the ones that people here are actually likely to be using. I mean, how likely is it that someone here will be poisoned by allyl methanesulphonate or nitrosyl tetrafluoroborate?

[knowledgehungry]

You are correct Mr. Cool, however i got those from Mega's precursors section. As I have said that is only a tentative list, and I appreciate comments such as yours(makes my job easier). Well I'll edit the list once again to get rid of the less than useful ones. I am also going to make a list of all the explosives used because i also want to deal with their toxicity such as PA.

[knowledgehungry]

If no one has any additions/subtractions to this list i will start work on the toxicity and how the chemicals affect you. I'll wait until tomorrow until i start working on it to give any people a chance to comment if they need to. I will let you know when that part is done.

[yt2095]

just an idea, but if you do a search on here for each of the chems you`ve listed, Keep the ones that show a result.
It`s a massive list and at face value IMO it`s very daunting/off putting. esp when some like Tannic acid (edible) don`t even realy belong on there :)
not in the capacity of Toxicology anyway.

refine the list a little so it`s at least in workable chunks and rellevent, then maybe some way of distributing it in these chunks so that we`re not all working on "Acetaldehyde" etc... at the same time :)

feel free to pass on the things to me that no one can get any real info about, I`ll use the old fashioned Book method :)
`t aint like I`ve got anything else better to do atm :)

All the best :)

[knowledgehungry]

Ok I did as you suggested and searched for all the chemicals in posts here, I got rid of 16 of them(havent removed them yet as i can't edit the list) and found 7 to add. So that makes me have 9 less to research. I am waiting to see if the webmaster will give me permission to edit my list, if not i will just have to repost my list.

[yt2095]

oh dear :(

seems like that`s quite a chunk to work through!

look, if you have any difficulties with some of the more "abstract" chems on or not on your list as yet, mail me, NO promises, but I WILL do my best to get you answers :)
I can`t say fairer than that :) as for the bulk of your list Id`e hazzard to say that 99.999% of it will be freely available on the net anyway. the other 0.0001% let me know :)

[knowledgehungry]

Here is the list that i will start working on: Mods please remove list from first post(i cant edit it anymore) thank you.
Acetaldehyde
acetamide
Acetylsalisylic Acid
acetic acid
acetic anhydride
acetone
acetyl chloride
aluminum(fine powder)
aluminum chloride
ammonia
ammonium carbonate
ammonium chloride
ammonium hydroxide
ammonium nitrate
ammonium perchlorate
aniline
aniline acetate

barium chloride
barium carbonate
barium chlorate
benzal chloride
benzaldehyde
benzene
bromine
bromobenzene
boric acid


calcium hydroxide
calcium sulfate
carbon disulfide
carbon tetrachloride
chlorine
chloroacetic acid
chlorobenzene
chloroform
citric acid
copper
copper oxide
cyanuric acid
cyclohexanone
cyclohexanol
m-cresol
cupric sulfate

dextrin
dicyanodiamide
diethanol amine
dihydrogen sulfide
m-dinitrobenzene


ethyl acetate
ethyl alcohol
ethyl chloride
ethylene dichloride
ethylene glycol
ethyl ether

formaldehyde
formamide
formic acid

gasoline
glycerol

HBIW
n-hexane
hexachloroethane
hydrazine
hydrochloric acid
hydroflouric acid
Hydrogen cyanide
hydrogen iodide
hydrogen peroxide

iron oxide(red and black)
iodine
isoamyl alcohol
isocyanic acid
isopropyl alcohol
isopropylamine

lead acetate
lead monoxide
lead nitrate

magnesium oxide
magnesium styphnate
maltose
manganese
mannitol
mercuric nitrate
mercuric oxide
mercury
mesityl oxide
methenamine
methyl alcohol
Methyl ethyl ketone
methylamine
methylene chloride

naphthalene
nitric acid
nitric oxide
nitrobenzene
nitrogen
nitrogen dioxide
nitromethane
nitrous oxide

oxalic acid
oxygen

paraffin
paraformaldehyde
paraldehyde
parlon
Pearlman's catalyst
pentaerythritol
perchloric acid
petroleum ether
phenol
phosphorus
phosphorous pentoxide
phosphorus oxychloride
phosphorus trichloride
picramic acid
picryl chloride
polystyrene
polyvinal alcohol
potassium chlorate
ptassium dichromate
potassium hydroxide
potassium iodide
potassium nitrate
potassium perchlorate
potassium permanganate
n-propyl alcohol
propylene glycol
pyridine
PVC

silver iodide
silver nitrate
sodium
sodium acetate
sodium azide
sodium benzoate
sodium bisulfate
sodium bisulfite
sodium chlorate
sodium dichromate
sodium hydroxide
sodium hypochlorite
sodium nitrate
sodium nitrite
sodium salicylate
sodium silicate
sodium sulfate
sodium sulfite
stearic acid
strontium carbonate
strontium nitrate
strontium sulfate
sulfur
sulfur chloride
sulfur dichloride
sulfuric acid

tetrahydrofuran
tin chloride
tin tetrachloride
toluene
trifluoroacetic anhydride

urea
urea nitrate

xylene
zinc

[knowledgehungry]

I am going to try to finish this depite what happened. http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2931
However im not sure when i will really start working on it again, hopefully soon so it can help prevent more accidents.

[Arthis]

After what happened, I understand that it may be difficult to work on a project, but this one may help staying off pyro activities, purely medical treatments... there is no direct connection, apart from the choice of compound you made ;).

If I can help, tell me. What type of information do you want to give ? A first choice source would be the MSDS, but what do you want to add more than that ? A complete description of what occurs when contamined (chemical processes and their consequences... ?).

[scooter12589]

Hi, I am new to the forum.
For help with treatment for exposure to chemicals you can use MSDS sheets.you can do a search for them at http://www.msdssearch.net/. I hope this helps and I really like the idea.

[knowledgehungry]

The person above you mentioned MSDS sheets, and yes that was where I was going to start:rolleyes: . However I do appreciate you bringing this back to my attention as I had nearly forgot about it, I will try to work on it some more, but I have been busy as hell lately what with school starting, nice weather, girlfriend etc. I have done a little bit more work on it, but no where near done. If someone wanted to do a section on first aid for cuts, burns, shrapnel wounds and chemical burns that woud decrease the time needed before it is done, e-mail me if you are interested knowledgehungryew@yahoo.com.

[knowledgehungry]

Well I am working on this project again. I'm only doing a PDF on the toxicity and carcinogenity of these chemicals at the moment. And I am only doing those involved in explosive synthesis right now.

[Pb1]

I’m surprised that this has not been mentioned yet, JTBaker (http://www.jtbaker.com/asp/Catalog.asp) has a lot of good MSDS sheets.

[Chris The Great]

Since it was mentioned that it shouldn't cover uncommon chemicals, that would be a horrible thing! Chances are, if it's uncommon you're not going to have much info on it, and so it would be necessary to include it in the guide if it was to be a good safety guide.

This seems like a great idea. Perhaps grouping some chemicals together (ie acids) would save time. For example, have an acid section, list all the dangers of conc. acids, and then some little blurbs about any special features some acid might have (for example HF's ability to attack bones, H2SO4's dehydrating properties etc.)

This would be something I wouldn't mind helping out with, I have alot of experience with 'safety' (or lack of). I have a fair amount of time on my hands, so it's easy for me to search for an hour or two a day, if you're having trouble researching such a huge list of chemicals. That's average of course, right now my time is limited due to finals coming up etc.

[Gedi]

If you go to www.skyscape.com you can download a free palm file called 911. It is a first aid reference and has information about bioterroism. Not sure, but you might be able to convert it to a web document.

I also have the skyscape crack for the other files on their site as well as several medical texts in Palm format if anyone is interested, i can upload them to the ftp.

[croc]

I have found a good website with something on it. http://www.drugnet.com.hk/tox/tox_antd.htm
Also on homedistiler.org it has something about the cure for methanol is ethanol but it has to be taken in a specific way over a period of time

[MazdaBoi]

I know this is a really old thread, but I wanted to post info about one of the chemicals... Maybe it will save someone's life someday...

Ethylene glycol... It's used in anti-freeze mainly, but can be found in the coolant used in water cooled computers, capacitors, and various other places...

The best way to treat ethylene glycol poisoning is to use ethanol. Get the person drunk. Ethanol binds to the same enzymes as ethylene glycol, thus competitively forces the ethylene glycol out of the system.

CALL 911 too... Hospital treatments consist of an IV of ethanol, and a gastric lavage to remove any unabsorbed ethylene glycol... Another drug called Fomepizole is available to hospitals that blocks the formation of the toxic metabolites. It is used in conjunction with ethanol.

If the metabolites have already began to form, dialysis is also used to support kidney function and help remove the toxin.

Time is of the utmost importance... Once the ethylene glycol binds to the enzymes, the damage is already in progress and cannot be ceased. The sooner you can get ethanol into the system and get the person to a hospital, the more of a chance the person's life can be saved.

To reiterate:

1) IMMEDIATELY CALL 911 AND GET AN AMBULANCE EN ROUTE. TELL THEM ETHYLENE GLYCOL IS INVOLVED SO THEY WILL HAVE IV ETHANOL AVAILABLE.

2) Get the person drunk... Don't overdo it, (ie, don't give them alcohol poisoning in addition to ethylene glycol poisoning), but give them enough to get pretty intoxicated. Do this ASAP after it is realized that ethylene glycol was ingested. Time is of the essence.