sulfurless blackpowder

[fasa]

i have ran out of sulfur, and i can't find anymore. The place i bought it from was shut down, and getting it from chem. stores is waay too expensive. Please don't tell me where to look, because i have looked all over the country....
I wanted to know if anyone knew a bit about sulfurless blackpowder...advantages, disadvantages, use, % of KNO3 and charcoal, etc....

or, if anyone knows what i can use instead of sulfur...
Dan Williams told me to use 2% iron oxide....but i don't think it will make a difference...

[Anthony]

Ach, the mental turmoil - to shut this thread down and eject you from the premises, or not?

In theory, I should as you've made a new thread on your first post, you've compounded that by requesting information. You've told a flagerant lie about sulphur not being available in your country. You haven't even provided the location of your country so that people can eiher help you or verify your claim.

But them I'm interested in what the other members think about Dan Williams' advice. We also haven't really covered Sulphurless BP before.

Hmm, suppose we can see where this goes...

BTW I'm surprised you managed to get Dan Williams' time and attention, he must be a very caring man.

[fasa]

can't i make a new thread on my first post??? and whats the problem in contacting Dan Williams?
anyway...
i live in Israel.... I'm sure sulfur is available SOMEWHERE, but not somewhere i can find...
only in chem. labs, where it would cost me ALOT.
i have tried many gardening stores, and paint stores....and tons of other stores... for a wide range of purposes....

anyway... can anyone answer my questions about sulfurless BP?

[yt2095]

paint shops for sulpher? Interesting :)

your BP will work without sulpher, it`s largely added to lower the ignition point. you`ll of course have to factor in the missing reducer quantity (add more charcoal).
C and KNO3 can make a respectable mix for such things as rockets especialy if intimately mixed properly and cast.
as for the iron oxide, I`m fairly sure thats for use in mixes containing sulpher and not a substitute (I could be wrong). you`ll just have to try it 1`st :)

[scarletmanuka]

You could probably get away with out Sulfur, just add the stoichiomeric amount of Charcoal, However this may be a lot harder to ignite (or impossible). The purpose of the Sulfur I believe, is to sensitise the BP. Maybe adding another fuel instead, like fine sugar or a metal powder. Fe2O3 will act as a catalyst in the reaction and speed it up.
Why dont you try obtaining some Sodiumthiosulphate (photographers hypo) add an acid (HCl works well) to precipitate sulfur.

[fasa]

yeah some1 told me that sulfur may be found in paint shops as its sometimes used for a base paint or something....
i will try the iron oxide and sulfurless BP as soon as i have time...and i'll tell you how it came out...
thanks for all your help!

[Pyroboy]

"However this may be a lot harder to ignite (or impossible). " uh, I think not my friend. It will work fine without sulphur. From what I remember it's mainly added to generate some important gases that aid in lifting sells or projectiles.

Why don't you just try it and see for yourself before starting up a new thread?

I personally think you should have been banned for that.

Also "some1" come on, all you need is to type an extra two letters there and you'll look like you've got at least half a brain!

[yt2095]

Hmm... a moderator has already seen fit to let him suck air for now, I`de leave it at that!

secondly, Sulphers sole purpose IIRC is to lower the ignition temp allowing better propogation of fire. the combustion products of sulpher are in fact little use when compared to CO2 (it itself is a heavy gas but of greater volume to mass ratio than that of sulpher SO2 gas)
it plays no other part.

let the mods sort the rest of it, it`s NON of our business

[fasa]

people seriously take it easy... all i did is ask a question...
i don't have so much KNO3 so i don't want to waste it.... i only started developing intrest in pyrotech. two weeks ago... and i'm 15...

is it hard to answer a question without telling me I'm an idiot and i should be banned?????
i made the powder...i'll post up the pics when i develop them....

[Arkangel]

To Fasa,

1. Read the rules - more specifically, read the rules for newbies (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2774) in the watercooler.NO new topics to be posted by newbies, CERTAINLY not as a first post anywhere in the main forum.

2. SEARCH. There has actually been a thread on sulphurless BP in the last year, and there is plenty of information out on the web as well. Don't just appear here and assume people will help you out. Remember when searching to vary your spelling - sulphur, sulfur, sulpher, sulphurless, sulphur less, sulphur-less etc. (Or does that require too much effort/imagination:rolleyes: ) Oh, lookie here! (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534)

3. There is NO such thing as NO availability of a chemical in most countries. Finding Potassium Perchlorate can be a royal pain in the arse in my country, but where there's a desperate and imaginative pyro there's a way. It's annoying to be told that you can't find something as simple as sulphur when most people can and do find a way. I accept that the security situation in your country is different, but most chems are SO much used in daily life it's impossible to restrict them.

4. Improper or lazy punctuation, shitty spelling and so on are going to make people think you're an idiot, and if they think that, you'll be out of here.

5. There's no problem with you contacting anyone. Anthony was being sarcastic (I think)

To anyone else, the thread was spared, and only because Anthony wanted to see if there was any merit in it, NOT because fasa is to be spared the derision of his peers. People have been canned for much less. It's perfectly fair and proper for people to say what they feel about him, and if that's a problem, they shouldn't be here. Naturally the watercooler is different, and this is in...oh yes, Pyro section. So he's fair game in my book.

[urbana]

Some months ago I tried ball mill just charcoal and saltpetre in order to reduce the risk of fire end explosion.
In this way I made a mix of saltpetre and charcoal (proportion 3:1) all components completely dry and having been previously ball milled and screened through a mesh 100 screener.
This mix was ballmilled for one hour, then i stopped the machine and removed a small sample.
I burned the mix sample just to have an idea of the speed of burning, and surprisingly this burned almost as fast as gunpowder. I became do terrified and removed all material from the ball mill.
Then I rammed a small rocket (11mm internal diameter) with this mix and fired it.
It flown very well, really I had the impression it reached higher altitude than same rocket with my standard fuel ( a common reduced saltpetre and sulfur gunpowder mixture 6:3:1).
I didn't had time to follow with the experiments with this sulphurless gunpowder, what I intend to do as soon I had time, but, aniway the first result was very impressive (from my point of view).
Urbana

[Efraim_barkbit]

A bit OT, but maybee helpful to some...

This guy I know bought a new flagpole, and he was told by the flagpole salesman, that the best way to hold the bolts of the foundation in place in their holes is to pour molten sulphur in them before inserting the bolts. The people in the paint store, wich he bought the sulphur from, also said this when he bought it.

So, if it is hard to get sulphur, maybee a trip to the flag pole salesman is in order, and then he probably can send you to the right place, if he don´t sell it to you himself.

(The paint store also have everything I need for my AP manufacturing...)

EDIT: just some words. hehe, edited 3 times in 2 minutes:D

[Axt]

Something that could possibly be tried is KNO3 impregnated paper pulp, done by adding the paper to NaOH. Forming something like sulphurless BP.

Ive no idea how it would burn, or if it would work at all, but It could have quite a low density with lots of air space for a quick burn rate.

This would be very easy to make in quantity if it actually works.

[fasa]

dear Efraim_barkbit,
i didn't get the flag pole bit... (my english isn't that good....),
what is a flag pole and where is it sold??? could you explain yourself a bit better??
thank you all for your help (again)....

BTW the sulfurless BP i made worked pretty well....
maybe its good that i mention that i put in like 8% iron oxide...
i burned rather fast, but it didn't have the same effect as normal BP....

I'm going to try making some salutes out of it, and see if they work well....

[Efraim_barkbit]

A flag pole is like a white tree with no branches on it, and it has flag in the top;)


I dont know where you live, so cant tell you were you can buy one, but look in a telephone catalogue or ask someone who already have one.. there are no special shop to buy them from in my town, it´s a just glass company that sells them.

[gliper]

sulfer is suposed to increase the gas volum and reduce the speed of reaction hence sulferless is recomended for fuses i calculated and use 20% char and 80% KNO3 it lights quite easly

[Sparky]

Yesterday I wrote a reply and though I posted it... Today I come back and it's not here! :mad: I hope one of the mods didn't delete it for some reason (I can't see why they would). Here I will try to remember what I wrote.

One more use of sulfur that I read about on rec.pyrotechnics is vulcanizing rubber. It comes in different grades, quite pure. Here is a quote from one of Mike Swisher's posts:

"Look in the yellow pages under "sulphur." You may find some places listed that
won't be interested in selling less than a rail car load, but probably one or
more local businesses will sell you a single 50-lb. sack of tube, tire, or
rubbermakers' sulphur. It is not at all expensive and quite pure enough for
fireworks use. "Flowers of sulphur" is sublimed sulphur and may contain sulphur
oxides that will form sulphurous or sulphuric acid. It should be avoided for
most firework uses."

He says it is less than $25 for a 50 lb sack, and likes tube sulfur best.

Also I wanted to mention that there is another advantage to having no sulfur in your BP - No funky smell after burning. SWIM get's a particularly bad smell (described as "Ass Smell") after firing a mortar using her BP. I'm guessing this may have something to do with her using willow charcoal which tends to have a lot of hydrogen in it.

fasa, if you are still looking for sulfurless BP formulas, look in the PFP database - there are a few in there.

While I was looking through the PFP database, I noticed a section on Cocoa powders - pretty much black powder but using rye straw charcoal instead of normal charcoal. Has anyone ever tried making this stuff?

[fasa]

i tried making some salutes, and things like the "bottlecap blaster" (from ratbastard's site) with my sulfurless BP. It didn't work...all it did is burn, but it didn't explode. I have made these before with regular BP, and they worked fine...

Any ideas why it didn't work?

[yt2095]

Quite simply because what your using isn`t "regular BP".

IIRC the bottle cap detonators used AP (an Explosive) even regular BP that you`d used in the past wouldn`t even come close to AP in power.
NC DBSP will/can detonate, but BP never will. the best you can hope for is a Mechanical explosion. do a search for COBs on this forum that MIGHT work with your grade of (I hesitate to use the term in this case) BP.

From past experience, unless it`s made with alot of care and intimately mixed, the best you`ll get will be more of a Whuuump effect than a salute.
what you have would be ideal for rockets and fuse though :) and maybe a few COB`s

did you ball mill it 1`st?
did you but LOADS of strong (preferably Nylon reiforced) tape around it?
also putting the fuse in the ceter of your device will give 2 flame propogation fronts as opposed to a "top down" burn
did you over press your powder or leave air gaps?

a chap called CDRW started a thread on here re, BP. look it up, it will answer MOST all of your questions.

[fasa]

i made my BP via the CIA method...
i took a lot of care while making it...
i grinded the chemicals as fine as i could...filtered, and used vine charcoal...
i also tried using the sulfurless BP as lifting powder...but that didn't work either....
i tried to make one of those "dry fireballs"...i took a tube, filled it with the BP, then put coffee creamer on top...
i lit it, and the BP burned, but nothing else happend...
i have no idea why it's not working.... i will try to make another load of sulfurless BP...maybe i didn't make it well...
except that....
does anyone know if sulfurless BP is usable as litfing powder????

[yt2095]

dry fireballs? coffee creamer?

where are you getting these ideas from?

the CIA method, where did you read that?

have you read the forum threads I`ve mentioned yet?

[fasa]

coffee creamer fireballs...i found them on many pages... a good example is ratbastard's page (btw great page;) )

I saw the CIA method on many sites....again, ratbastard's, and frogfot's...

i searched for the thread, but i didn't find a thread about BP which was started by CDRW...

[yt2095]

here:

http://roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2577

[Skean Dhu]

sulfur-less BP mixes can be found --> http://209.210.231.220/webdoc1.htg/CompDB/BlkPwdr.html#Ammonium-based
and --->
http://come.to/pfp

friendly hints:
instead of being spoonfed answers look harder next time.
and since this is an all English speaking forum i'd suggest you brush up on your language skills

happy fires

[fasa]

Thanks for the sites, but I've already seen both of them, they really don't answer most of what I've asked....

And what's wrong with my English?!?
Yeah so I don't write like a 40 year old scientist, because I'm 15 and English isn't my native language, but if you haven't read the forum rules....
"As long as we understand your English, we don't care if you have mistakes..."