How far would YOU go?

[yt2095]

Tony Martin, a British man has just been released after serving 4 years for defending his property.
He shot 2 KNOWN Villians, killing one and only injuring the other, when they broke into his home on a farm in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night.

the Fucktard that actualy survived is now trying to SUE him!!! (Tony should have shot better in the 1`st place IMO)

NOW, there`s a rethink in policy with regards to our rights to defend our own homes!
the... "what`s legal and what isn`t legal" to do to some asshole that wants to rape your life!

the current "buzz word" is: excessive force.

herein lies my question... how far would YOU go to defend your home/family/belongings etc... ?

I want HONEST answers and not any bullshit said to TRY impress other forumites!

what defence do you have already?

what have you done in the past?

here in the UK we don`t have the Contitutional rights, the right to bear arms for instance, However, the Englishmans Home is his Castle!

also remmeber that burglary is no longer a criminal offence (as near as damn it!), you`ll get let off with a warning!

your call....

[A-BOMB]

I have gun, guns and more guns for my defence 2 motion light above the only 2 doors someong could get it through. And if you have to shoot, shoot to kill, and if you shoot and he doesn't have a weapon put one on him a large steak knife in his belt will do. To give you the reason to shoot him.

[knowledgehungry]

I wouldnt use any of my explosive devices, would cause far too many problems with the law, i had a topic about this early when some of the urban monkeys were giving me trouble. What i would do is call the cops then get my bat(as we dont have any guns, not til i am 18) and knock their skull in, i wouldnt beat him after he was down, no point, I'd justd zip ties his wrists(unnescessarily tight of course). But then again if you kill the guy all you have to do is get rid of the body, who is going to miss some low life? And who is going to know where he got done in? Thus no connection to you and this missing person, I wouldnt use a gun if i was going to kill him though, noise might make the neighbors call the cops. I probably wouldnt kill him, being as i am a nice person, but if he tried to harm my family... Death would be slow.

EDIT: of course I would plant a knife on him, even if he was left alive, he gets more time in jail, I forgot about that.

[Mr Cool]

The one that got away looks like a fucking prick. I want to shoot him again!

Anyway, if they were just trying to steal shit I'd do whatever was necessary to stop them, but would stop short of killing them, or causing them an injury that was likely to kill them. There'd be no need. If, however, they were violent or were waving some sort of weapon about and I thought that I or anyone else was in serious danger, then although I wouldn't want to kill them, it might happen anyway. Assuming I had the chance, I'd use sufficient force to be sure of stopping them instantly, so that they couldn't get up and kill me or others out of revenge. And there aren't many ways to do this and be sure that they'll live.

I think if you were clearly in great danger (ie if your life was threatened), and didn't use an illegal weapon on them, then you could easily get away without a prison sentence.

[Spudkilla]

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=89989

A very long read, but it is actually pretty informative about this kind of stuff.

[yt2095]

oh for Fucks sakes!

I got to reading some of the posts, I got to the 4`th one...
I was thinking "Yup... sounds about right!"

then read the 5`th only to find it was NBK that wrote number 4! (I didn`t pay attn to who wrote it, I assumed I`de know non of them anyway)
you lot get everywhere!, here was I thinking "Hmmm.. this looks an interesting link I`ve not seen bafore" blah blah
*sigh*

ya just gotta love him though, aint ya :)

[Cyclonite]

A dead man cant contest what you tell the cops, I would first give them a scare by discovery and confrontation they will drop my shit and take off or try and injure or kill me. Whatever their action, im assuming they want to kill me at which point I would produce my weapon and go for a head shot or center mass depending on the situation and how much time I can take to aim. I have dont believe in hurting innocent people, but when someone enters my residence with intentions to hurt me, my family or steal my shit they pay a price. I havent had the need to do so as of yet but I know what I would do in that situation.

[nbk2000]

That's also one of the few threads that are considered "Top Gun" by the staff of TFL where someone is named as being exceptional. :D Not bad for someone who only had a hundred odd posts there, compared to the others named who had thousands, eh? ;)

I'm too modest...:p

[Nihilist]

wasn't there a case in the US where some guy was going to rob a house, and he slipped on their driveway, broke a few bones, and then sued the family he was going to rob?

[vulture]

I have an alarm system at home and I can tell you that when the thing goes of in the middle of the night you first shit yourself because of the alarming noise and the fact that you are being dragged from dreamland into cruel reality. Luckily for me, it was a false alarm.

I only have a 560fps pellet gun to defend myself. It looks badass with the scope though..and it does a good job at killing pigeons, but that's about it. :(

Anybody got any info about wounds inflicted by 4.5mm 560fps pellet guns?

[Tuatara]

Here in NZ guns are very much a priviledge, not a right. So I don't have a gun. I have thought out what other things around the house could serve as weapons though, and there are a few. e.g broom sticks and carving knives.

I would happily do anything necessary to defend my family. Ideally a kick to the throat, with luck leading to death, which could then be passed off as accidental:D . Any scumbag who enters my home uninvited and refuses to leave quietly has forfeited all their rights, as far as I'm concerned.

There have been instances here of intruders being killed by homeowners - usually to a loud round of applause from the general populace.


I have a monitored alarm here. If it gets tripped, and the security company does not get the correct reponse to a phone call, the police are sent around immediately.

[xyz]

Here in Australia (WA at least), you are only allowed to use equal force to defend yourelf/your property. E.g. If the burglar has a gun then you can shoot them but if they only have a knife you can't shoot them. If they have a knife then you can use a knife but if they only have a bat then you are not allowed to use a knife against them.

Pretty screwed law huh?
Like you would be able to say to the burglar "Hang on a minute, you only have a knife, wait here while I put my gun away and go and get a knife"

[grendel23]

In the state where I live, you are only justified in using lethal force if you or another person is in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm.
In that situation I would not hesitate to perforate.
I can’t imagine shooting someone unless that was the case; I have insurance that would cover me if I were robbed.
When I lived in a big city I always had a .45 or .357 loaded with frangible ammo under my mattress, I had no kids around then. I went to a range and fired at least 100 rounds a week. To my mind that is the important part, to shoot enough that when you are too scared to think, muscle memory will take over and save your ass.
I now live way out in the sticks and have kids around, and don’t even own a gun any more

[knowledgehungry]

There was a case a while ago where a man shot his drunk neighbor who was trying to break into his house while naked. I m not sure as to the outcome, however it did not seem as if shooting him was the problem, it was that he shot him several times, and after he started to leave with gunshot wound.

[yt2095]

Hmmm.. I`ve heard of something similar about 6(ish) years ago, when home defence laws had changed a little.
apparently (how true this is I DON`T know? it was told to me by a mate that watched it on TV) that IF you damage a man/woman in self defence in your home, the wounds must be at the front, if they were running away and you just happen to hit them with a crossbow bolt/knife/bullet/missile/flame thrower/contagion/house brick/bazooka etc...
then you`de be in alot of trouble, IF it was in his/her front, then you MAY stand a chance with a "self defence plea"

but hey, it was a word from a chap in a pub, so who knows, but I`ve no reason to disbeleive him.

*** got ya! you lil` bastard!. how do ya wanna die??? (pressent arsenal), OK PUNK (Clint Eastwood style) "start running"... boom/whoosh/smack/bang/crack etc... (using the weapon of HIS/HER own choosing) they drop... your BUSTED!***

now, take the precaution of saying (as above) "how do ya wanna die punk and while your at it, do me a favour and stand still so I can hit you in the front... I mean you wouldn`t want me to get in trouble with the LAW and all that do you?"

*sigh*

there needs to be ONE law for homeowners protecting their homes! something short and simple, AND SOMETHING that FITS congruently with todays day and age and home owners psychy!

otherwise there will always! be cases like this, and the little fucktard burgler bastards will rape our lives while our Gov gives them a round of applause!

`nuff said

[Nitroman]

I suppose one way of getting burglers out of your home would be to use C.S. gas. We use it in the army for N.B.C. training. It cannot kill, but irritates the eyes, nose and throat like mad. Im shure this would make them theiving crettons run STRAIGHT out of your home.

[Cyclonite]

CS may be a little far to go for simple home protection. Besides most people dont have a gas mask hanging around for protection. CS is pretty irritable, I can stand it for about 1min with no mask taking shallow breaths with my eyes open just a little bit.

[yt2095]

Cyclonite,

But your TRYING to be as quiet and stealthy as possible, suddenly you get a blast os CS in your face, what will you do? probably a big GULP of air due to shock/surprise. standing there holding your breath or short shallow breaths whilst squinting, wouldn`t be the 1`st thing on your mind :)
it would more than likely be, "what the fuck was that and how can I get out of here NOW!" :D
I`m sure in controled circumstances/environment, what you say is undoubtedly true, and pehaps some of your comrades did perhaps better and worse than you during this test.
I personaly like his idea, it has alot going for it as non lethal weapon with MAX effect.
as for gas masks though, your quite right, SOMETHING would be needed, as the only advantage you`d have is that you KNEW it was comming!

I`ve read that Hexamine is used as a toxic gas absorber, and that bleach (household) can be used against tear gas (how true this is about bleach I don`t know). and I`m sure we all know about layers of activated charcoal. maybe there`s a way to improvise one???

all the best :)

[Cyclonite]

I was speaking more in terms of availibility of CS. Perhaps a peppersauce with a 1.5 million scoville unit rating could be made a gas vapor directed at the intruder. Its wouldnt float everywhere and it could be directed.

[nbk2000]

Particles of CS crystals will lodge in the carpet, the paint on the walls, the furniture, and pretty much everthing else in the house. These particles will continue to vaporize for an extended period of time, ranging from weeks to months, depending on the weather.

So, you may evict the crim, but you'll be evicting yourself too, till the house is aired out for a few months. :(

However, no such problem exists with HCN. :) Eradicates all forms of verminous life, right promptly, just ask any jew. :D

Now, for the soft hearted among us, chloropicrin would do the job too and, being a vapor (not a crystalline solid like CS), there'd be no risk of long-term persistance. :)

[Flake2m]

I have had my home broken into twice and both times the little shits were too scared to fight.

The first time three arseholes were involved, they nicked my mums handbag and stole a bit of money. We managed to recover most of the stolen gear in the street, because the dickless retartds had thrown what they didn't want out the window of the getaway bomb.

The second time they enetered my Mum's bedroom and stole a bigpile of clothes but since my Mum was woken up, she screamed and the scream would have woken the dead. So they ran out with a big pile of clothes, including my school uniform (which I would have let them keep) :D to thier V8 rust bucket. Yet again the clotheing was found all over the street, which including a pair of my boxer shorts :eek:.

If I had caught the invaders, their bodies would not have been found :). Though generally, seeing my Mum at 3am in the morning without makeup is enough to deter anyone from my home :D. I have two fibreglass hockey sticks in my room which are strong enough to smash someones skull in and I would be prepared to use them at whatever cost to protect my family and friends, even if the attackers end up dead at the end of it.

[GibboNet]

I'm going with "my home is my castle". I'll defend my castle to whatever means. It may be a small rented unit, but it's my home, and it's my own place, where I should be safe, and where I rule my own area.

Anyone who enters my area, like has been said, has forfited their rights, and put themselves under my jurisdiction. They'll have to bear my punishment for thinking they can get away with stepping onto my turf, in whatever way I se fit at the time. The curb scene in "American History X" comes to mind, but I wouldn't even let them get as far as the road. :D

I'm unlucky in a way to be living with my girlfriend, as she hates weapons, in case her little sister comes to visit or something. :rolleyes: So, If our place was broken into whil I was here, I would have to get to the desk, or my bookshelf, where I have knives, or to the kitchen for same.

When it comes down to it, some surprise, knowledge of the layout of the house in the dark, and plenty of speed will enable me to overcome one attacker with ease, unless he's a massive boxer or something. Two or more and it gets difficult.

I do know that I would be able to track down anyone who tried, and they would be punished.

[nbk2000]

Keep your woman in check, dude. Tell her what's what and that's that. End story. :)

Wear the pants. :p

[stickfigure]

I have a few guns, my primary defense weapons for the home are a Mossberg 590 loaded with 00 buck, and a Beretta 92 FS with Remington Golden Saber 115gr. hps. This is my first line in the home, if it gets really hairy I have an M-4 carbine with a Beta-C loaded with 50 rnds. M855 green-tip AP. I keep a Point Blank Interceptor vest with front and back ceramic plates that are multi-hit up to 7.62x54R. Also I have a Molle II rig loaded with 10 - 30rd. Mags, about 60rds. 00 buck and slugs, plus 6 extra 15rd mags for the Beretta.

This is more firepower than the average situation calls for. But I figure if the shit hits the fan I have a pretty descent load-out that I can put to use. Also I have a Springfield M1A Super-Match Grade for sniping out to 1000yds. to keep their heads down at a distance. The state I am moving to is pretty gun friendly and the gun-control frenzy is really losing speed here in America, as most courts and the government agree that it is a right not a privlage, and that right belongs to the individual, not to society as a collective whole.

Also many states and cities are passing ordnances that allow defense of the home and home owner protection because to many people are being taken advantage of by criminals.

I keep sure-fire flashlights on my guns so I can identify the person I am confronting. If it is a stranger that is armed, I would shoot to kill. And I wouldn't hesitate, see gun...kill. Now a knife or bat? I would probably give him a chance to run and I would create some space between him and me, like back up, or start to flank him. That way I'm out of harms reach and give him a chance to think about the situation. If he attacked, I would shoot him.

[Fabre]

Ammending on what XYZ said ealier :D

Here in Australia (WA at least), you are only allowed to use equal force to defend yourelf/your property.
I spent a year in WA in which I done a security course. The Law Also states your allowed to use any force deemed nessessary if you feel your life was in danger.
(this is if your in your home)

Scenario, Burgler breaks in, he has a plastic pen knife from the car boot sale, and you have OICW. At this point if you open fire you are using more than equal force. But, if you tell the Police that you felt your life was in danger, you will get away %100 of the time. This law overrides the other. So when this situation arrises, DONT say it was a accident, You will go down for Manslaughter.

Anyway, What would I do if somebody broke into my home?
In all honestley, I would be scaird. Im Sure you have all heard the saying
" Supprise a burgler and he becomes a murder "
Well, I have a Blanc fireing Beretta Millitary version which is quite loud, I would unload a few rounds and im sure he will run away scaird.

I would give him the chance to run away, if he did not take that oppertunity I would almost certainley pistol whip the guy to the floor and call the police.

[kingspaz]

if somebody broke into my home i'd reach for the pick handle. i'd then stalk them until i felt the time was right to break their legs :D

[nbk2000]

I spent a year in WA in which I done a security course.


Considering the very poor "speeling" and "gramear" you showed in your post, it seems you would have been better off spending that time in school, learning how to compose a proper sentence, complete with accurately spelt words. :p

Poser is outta' 'ere! :)

[wrench352]

HK USC loaded with Cor-Bon .45,AR-15 w/LCXM193,Winchester Defender 12GA pump=
"terminally effective"

You want to come in my house uninvited?

[Anthony]

"if you tell the Police that you felt your life was in danger, you will get away %100 of the time"

No you won't. You would have to prove to the jury that your life actually was in danger, they would have to agree that there was *no* other (less severe) course of action that could have been taken.

Something like 80%+ of Americans who shot a burglar who had entered their home got put away with it. There seems to be a myth that in the US lethal force is ok, I think a lot of people find out this isn't the case the hard way.

[wrench352]

I live in the deep,deep south and things are a little different here than some more liberal states.Case in point just last year,an EMT responds to an emergency,for whatever reason he has to go through the window.Guess what?Wrong window...
The old guy that lives there shits his pants and shoots the poor guy,to death.To the best of my knowledge the guy was never prosecuted.In addition every year somebody picks the wrong elderly couple tourists to invade their rental,usually the criminal lives,but very often the perp gets killed.And everybody loves it,they think its great.
My brother who also lives in the south says there are very few burgluries in his area (outside Ft.Bragg N.C.)because everybody is armed to the teeth.
I myself will shoot first and ask questions later,I have a Family,damn the consequences!

The founding fathers wanted every able bodied man,of good repute,to keep and maintain a rifle and 20 rounds,as our civic duty.

The 2nd ammendment works
http://www.awbansunset.com

[nbk2000]

That's why, if I was going to do a burglary of a house, and it's even remotely possible that there'd be someone there with a gun...poison gas...to clean the house of all life. :)

[TreverSlyFox]

Anthony,

Actually here in the States it depends on which State your in. In most States the use of "deadly force" is judged by the "Reasonable Man" standard and you don't have to prove you "WERE" in danger but that you "Thought" you were in danger. The "Reasonable Man" standard is "Would the average person do roughly the same thing or come to the same conclusion, given the same circumstances". Some States demand that you try your best to "escape" and deadly force may only be used if you can't. Other States such as here in Missouri and in Texas you can not only use "deadly force" to protect youself or others but also to protect your property (it is advisable not to shoot them in the back).

In my County, as long as there's blood on the inside of the door and you didn'y shoot them in the back, you'r ok (it's also helpful if the perp has at least a kitchen knife in his hand when the Sheriff finds him with his chest blown out by a 12ga). The investigation will be short and overwith in about 24 hours and you'll walk without being charged with anything (well maybe littering if you blow him out the door onto the side walk).

Just don't try the same thing in New York or Chicago, they'll hang your ass and toss the key away. If your going to protect youself with a gun here in the States you'ed better damn well know what the rules are in the area you live in.

Trever

[PasstheDutch]

here in The Netherlands we have a fine justice-system, if you even touch a burglar here YOU go to jail and the burglar walks free. So any fiend invading my house gets some blunt object to the head ,after that i'm dragging him out to the street ,lay him there and call the police to tell i've seen a man get unwell on the street.. I would rather spray him with a couple of 5,7mm out of a FN P90, but hey this isn't america :mad:

[nbk2000]

I would rather spray him with a couple of 5,7mm out of a FN P90, but hey this isn't america


You're right, you're not in America, that's why you can't be trusted with fuse, let alone a P90. :p Unless, of course, you're implying that you have one?

[vulture]

If you have the right amount of cash, the right connections and the guts, you can buy black market P90s in Charleroi, Belgiums Chicago.

Well, connections aren't really necessary, because when a team of undercover journalist waved with a briefcase with the right amount of cash, a gunstore owner was more than happy to show his special treats.

I'm not sure, but I think some gang already used a P90 on a bank job or cash courier job.

[nbk2000]

Just goes to show that money talks, bullshit walks, no matter where you are in the world. :)

If I had the cash, I could get a browning M1919 belt-fed heavy machine gun, just like those used in the Great War, or a Ma-Deuce. But I, unfortunately, don't have $5,000+ to spend on such neat toys. :(

Though I'd definitely like to get a hold of a FN P90 if I was able to.

Did they fire it off? If not, then it may have been an airsoft replica, playing off the recent media publicity about its availability to scare the guards into complying.

[vulture]

Come on NBK, did you really think they were going to fire such a truely scary weapon of evil? They're fucking journalists!

So yes, it could have been an airsoft replica, but I fail to see why the owner was only willing to show it after heavy persuading with cash.

BTW, there has been some fuzz about the sale of a considerable amount of P90s to the mexican police, because they have a habit of dissapearing guns...the rest I leave to your imagination...

Cash would not be the only possible payment for black market weapons....

[nbk2000]

Did they fire it off? If not, then it may have been an airsoft replica, playing off the recent media publicity about its availability to scare the guards into complying.


I believe someone didn't get enough sleep last night? ;)

I certainly wasn't talking about the gun shop owner, eh? Perhpas I was referring to the robbery? :D

[Bert]

I took the class and qualified for concealed carry
here in MN. The standard here is that if you fear for
your life or that of another, you're justified in
shooting. Property crime doesn't cut it.

For mere property crime, I doubt I'd shoot anyone
anyhow.

[nbk2000]

I had an idea of how one could avoid being shot if caught in the act. This would work as a bluff, and therefore success depends on how well you deliver it.

You have a lipstick case with a little hole in one end and a length of wire coming out the other going down into your shirt. It's strapped to your head like a micro-video camera would be.

Guy gets the drop on you and (assuming he doesn't shoot first) tells you to freeze. You do so and hold your hands out in front you at face level and deliver your line:

"See the little black thing on my head? That's a tiny videocamera transmitting everything that's happening to my partner out in the car, where it's being recorded. My hands are in sight of the camera and I'm going to leave here. If you shoot me, it'll have to be in the back, and you won't be able to put a knife in my hands and say I was armed because my hands are going to be on camera till I get in the car.

If you shoot me, the police will get a copy of the video and so will the local news stations. You'll be arrested for killing an unarmed man who was leaving and no excuse about "he was going for a weapon" will save you because the video proves otherwise. You'll either go to prison for years, or be bankrupted by the courts defending yourself, either way it'll ruin you.

I'm leaving now. Don't let your pride ruin your life"

And then you proceed to leave. He either calls your bluff and shots, or takes the safe option of letting you go with nothing lost.

If you stammer and shake like a bitch, it won't work. But, if you say it with a dead-calm voice and put some cockiness in it, who knows? He who hesitates is lost.

'Course, this'd be much more effective if it was true! At least then, if bubba does blow you away (or preferably your crimey, since you're not stupid enough to go in yourself! :D), Bubba gets to meet Tyrone on the prison rec yard.

And, of course, it'd only take this happening one time to make it highly imitated and known to homeowners as a form of deterrent against gun owners. :p

[pyromaniac_guy]

Originally posted by xyz
Here in Australia (WA at least), you are only allowed to use equal force to defend yourelf/your property. E.g. If the burglar has a gun then you can shoot them but if they only have a knife you can't shoot them. If they have a knife then you can use a knife but if they only have a bat then you are not allowed to use a knife against them.

Pretty screwed law huh?
Like you would be able to say to the burglar "Hang on a minute, you only have a knife, wait here while I put my gun away and go and get a knife"

what happens if someone breaks in and has a 16th centruy samuri sword? is a knife close enough, or are you just plain fucked if you arent a collector of 500 year old japaneese fighting weapons?

[Adept]

Well, shooting anyone is out of the question as far as I am concerned, simply for practical reasons. I do not live alone, and small children and other people of limited mental capacity frequent my house, often when I am not here.

While I do have something of a well rounded impressive arsenal, I also believe in responsible firearm ownership. In order to shoot a home intruder, I would have to get the keya to the gun cabinet and the ammo safe, unluck them both, retrieve the right gun and the right ammo, lock and load the gun, and then proceed to confront the intruder. It simply isnt practical.

Instead, I would confront them with whatever weapon i had at hand. Most likely just myself. Now, if I could, I would avoid any kind of physical confrontation, but if push comes to shove I am not going to take the chance that this person is not armed and dangerous. If it comes to blows I am going to take them down as quickly and safely as possible. If this means lethal or crippling strikes with whatever weapon I can find, then so be it. I would rather take this crim out of action than risk my family getting hurt by my using half measures, and to be honest I am prepared to go to jail rather than risk it.

If possible I would render the crim unable to harm anyone, tie him up good and proper like, and call the cops. If I had to kill him (or her) it would only be in self defense or the defense of others, and only if I honestly did fear injury or loss of life. I'm not going to simply go berserk on their ass because I can.

[Nevermore]

over here is really a mess...
we are not allowed to carry gun outside, and at home they have to be kept "not ready for use" that means with the charger empty and the bullets in the package, and closed under key.
I don't even say that we can't use homeload ammo for that, and that HP bullet are definitely off topic, as frangible bullets..the only one we can use are lead, and fmj.
I am currently using .38sp WC for defense, since they are less proud to bouncing around, i know they have little energy but they would be used at short range.
The law is pretty messed, if you kill someone they charge you homicide, put you in jail, then if they can't find anything against you (and you know they will since the police WILL find something when searching), after a couple of months they will put you out on parole, meanwhile you ass has been raped everyday..
Then you have to pass 3 lines of judgement, and that is gonna take around 10-12 years, during while you can't go outside the state, and probably you can't work, and every night the police will come at your house to check if you are there.
After bringing you to see your ass for paying the lawyer they will probably say, you were right, that's all, leaving you w/o a penny.
If instead you didn't kill the asshole, well you will pay him lifelong, him, his family, and his fucking 5 bastards, and you have to watch out that they don't burn your car, or kill your family.
btw in case he comes again to steal something, better not to shoot him again, since they will think is revenge and kick you in jail for 10-20 years..
while the POOOR theft is outside squandering your money and the press makes you the new dr lecter..

I'd suggest killing him, dissolving him in acids, or just cut into pieces, and give out to eat at the wild dogs outside..

NB for having a license to buy my gun i had even to go to psichiatrist, it costed me alot, and every time i buy a new box of ammo they will ask me "what did you do with the old one" plinking being forbidden..if i use a knife, a baseball bat, a blowgun, or whatever things doesn't change..what a fucking place..

[bobo]

This surprises me a little, because Italy has this Berlusconi guy we keep hearing stuff about. It sounds like your country has much the same fucked up justice department that we do. Your government is called 'fascist' by some in my country, and political movements here which are friends of Berlusconi and Haider are growing because many people have really had it with criminals and treatment thereof. Why did politics not change the system in your country when they came to power? I think the italian police themselves aren't that soft at all to hoodlums.

[DropNazi]

If you are going to shoot an assailant that has no weapon with the idea of putting 1 on him after hes dead you had better shoot him in the head bc they can and will line up the holes in the muscle and tissues to see what position he was in ie. arm up ready to stab you or on his knees pleading for his life. And they can and will check the weapon for fibers and other microscopic items that will show if it belonged to the assialant or if it has been riding in your backpocket for the past 3 years so it had better be a weapon he found in your kitchen or buy a knife and nerver open it touch it look think about it etc, untill you rub it on his hand and jeans to plant it on him.

[DropNazi]

I would gladly spend a few hours in the gas house if the alternative was to be pepper sprayed. Yes the CS was rather unpleasant but what I use at work has the highest concentration of oc available and days it has been used on me in training, or exposure due to a breeze and bringing it back to my face, or the times where a coworker thinks hell play a joke a spray it in your hat or on your food... the training days are the worst days of my life. A 2 second spray to closed eyes --fun times--
If you use pepper spray on some1 theyll be blind and have breathing problems long after the police show up even if they stop at a doughnut shop on the way.

[xyz]

DorpNazi, the Mods don't like it when you have several posts in a row, use the edit post function.
They REALLY don't like it when the posts say the same thing.

[Nevermore]

Originally posted by bobo
This surprises me a little, because Italy has this Berlusconi guy we keep hearing stuff about. It sounds like your country has much the same fucked up justice department that we do. Your government is called 'fascist' by some in my country, and political movements here which are friends of Berlusconi and Haider are growing because many people have really had it with criminals and treatment thereof. Why did politics not change the system in your country when they came to power? I think the italian police themselves aren't that soft at all to hoodlums.
bullshit bullshits..
after many stupid laws made from the commie i finally took a breath when berlusca got the sit, but nothing changed..it doesn't matter who sit over there, there should be a demon that sucks out the brain of the ppl that get in charge. The justice here is a fuck, is 5 years i wait for a judgement to be paid back from an accident, the police is latitant, the traffic police is always inside bars and never at work, the commie spit on everyone that has a gun, i'm having big time at university for not being a commie and not going around like them dreaming that one day the fucking homeland soviet union will save us...The true fascists are dead, the only ones still alive are the commies, but if what i think is right, in a couple of years we will see them only in postcards..the old generation that has been brainwashed about that is getting older, after them, only the anarchist will remain..why politics should change? for getting less money? to show they are good? nah, better to try to make as much money as possible, while keeping the people under the shoes..BTW every time berlusca makes a law, the commie make a strike, no matter if the law is good or not..they are all rubbish, i'd better use the vote paper as toilet paper next time..
i won't discuss about the italian police, they are just making their job, the problem is that the heads are politics, and politics are not good in doing things...

[Wild Catmage]

In my mind, the filth that breaks into my house when I'm in, is on the list for having their cranium annointed with the nearest blunt object I have to hand. However, as I've never been broken into whilst at home, I cannot be sure of what I'd do.

Edit - Explosives are out of the question, as I lack the experience to rig up something and be sure it won't take out my house as well as the intruders (as well as being illegal, duh). My mini air cannon is also out, because:
a. I never store it charged and loaded (its a pneumatic weapon).
b. When the cops come round and find some guy with a duracell buried in his chest they might get slightly suspicious :rolleyes:

Does anyone know whether you can get Epi-Pens without a prescription in the UK?
An Epi-Pen is basically an auto-injector full of epinephrine which, from what I've learnt, is a hormone secreted by the adrenal gland. Anyway, the effects are that it quickens the pulse, widens the airways, and you end up staying wide awake all night, as well as feeling hungry for the next few days (it makes your liver free up all your available energy reserves).

The manufacturer's tagline is "because every second counts" and when some fool breaks into my house at night, the sooner I'm able to "defend" myself, the better.

[Nevermore]

i don't think that injecting something inside you will change much, if they come at night knowing you are at home they will be armed, and so i think the best way is having some traps, or a gun handy..
Traps can be made really easily, you don't need lethal traps, so..
having some piranha solution, strong naoh solution, or just plain concentrated hcl will do the job, having electricity at home is very easy to set up a trap, beside that, if you are able to sneak out of your room and attack them on the back, it will be better..
a baseball bat will do the job, or even better, an axe.
it is amazing how a simple hammer is effective, and quiet..
a small dog inside home is a good alarm, and is not easy taken out with poison like the outside dogs..anyway, in case have to defend your home, the important is being quiet, they will run for your bedroom to get you in bed, get out before they reach, turn off the main light, and use the knowledge of territory you have.
a broomhandle with a knife on top is very deadly when coming out from a dark spot aiming at your throat..
being sprayed with concentrated base will be rather painful, as being sprayed with concentrated acids..
touching a doorhandle connected to the 220V could be not so pleasurable, and being hit on the back of the head with a 1kg hammer is something will remember for life...

[thrall]

I live in a country with a goverment which has colonial attitude towards it's citizens.It keeps it's citizens totally disarmed.I can't have a Blade(edged weapon) with edge more than 6 inch.I can't have firearms.Getting license for a firearm is really long and painful prosses and normally you will not be granted license if you don't have a GOOD(like threat on life etc.) reason for it.Even if you get one the cost is way too much for a firearm(1 lakh rupees(2500$ roughly)) and people don't have that much of money normally.Only rich people can get them.
Yet I have a weapon of my own.I have a knife(5 inch long, thick blade,4 inch handle) with handle made of iron pipe.And it fits perfactly in a bamboo log(5feet 6 inches) I keep.So whenever needed I can just put the knife in the stick and lo! I have a javelian.(of course I have more than one of these things ;)). I've precticed with throwing it as well.it's good thing to have;) .I can target upto 30 feet and thats more than enough.
As for the laws, police here doesn't care much about the life of ORDINARY people so if you take down a burguler or a thief it's OK.Only problem is that they(criminals) are normally armed while the victims are not so this thing doesn't happen.
Of course I'll kill the basterd if I can.

[Jacks Complete]

In an ideal world, I would wait, then follow them down the road, and slot them some place quiet where they are checking out the haul...

No blood on my carpet.

I have a firearm, but the odds of being able to be ready puts me at a hell of a disadvantage. The crim probably wouldn't have a safe and a trigger lock to slow him down.

However, like most homes, in mine there is an abundance of weaponry. Unlike most homes, mine aren't (mostly) improvised.

[tingtao]

I lived in a state in the past where it was made known to the public by the officials that any strange person trespassing on one's property was therefore subjected to any actions taken by the home owner to eliminate the problem. Yes they clearly stated that a home owner could shoot anyone that did not belong on their land. This same state also has the death penalty. I suppose this was an attempt to thwart robberies. In my area a home owner discovered that two individuals were stealing his tires and rims from his vehicle. From knowing this guy, he was a typical man raised on strong values and would be damned some low life scum would invade his private area and steal from him. In his eyes, he'd being doing the world a favor by eliminating such scum. Needless to say, he shot at these individuals with a shotgun, killing one (o.k, maybe a bit severe, but the law stated so). The home owner was arrested. His lawyer told him that he would be released due to such and such state law. Well he still remains in jail. The basis of the case was a racial issue. He was a white man living in a community of non-whites. The family of the 'victim' and the community of non-whites claimed a hate crime, despite two of the tires being forced off the car and witnesses in the neighborhood (who remained quiet). This man was not a racist. He just minded his own business. Well needless to say, this rediculous claim was branded into the juror's minds. From that build point, they came up with all sorts of grays areas to the law that kept this man from pleading his case. I personally feel that they used this case as a breaking point to change the law. Sure this man did not have to even shoot at these thieves, he did so out of pure disgust and feeling violated, but according to the law at the time, it did not matter. So long as a perpetrator was trespassing on your property, you had the right to shoot them. Personally I feel that may be a bit extreme. I can see if they have a weapon to you and may even plan on killing you. You can never think, 'oh they won't kill me.' Just read the news. It can happen anywhere. The state I live in now has a two page long description as to the proper action to take when there is a person trespassing on your property. You read the laws and you feel that even if you abided by all of them, at a trial it would be so difficult to prove them. Such as making an attempt to go for the phone. Or making an attempt to get as far away as possible from the perpetrator IN YOUR OWN HOME!! It's all a rediculous way by the state to basically tell you that you don't have any right to defend yourself, but not directly saying it so as to not cause a stirring of people complaining about their Constitutional rights. THere have already been a good handful of cases of the homeowners being sent to jail instead!
Well at any rate, I've rambled on too long. The way I feel is that I would need to try with all my might to put aside my anger due to being violated and wanting to simply eliminate any scum thinking they can invade my home. Although I would love to do the community a favor by eliminating them, I would have to think about the man I knew that was was trying to protect his property, who had the tables turned on him and is now sitting in jail (by the way, the surviving thief ended up breaking into a home 8 months later and robbing and killing a 74 year old woman...I just shook my head...see what I mean, he should have been eliminated as well). So, I would have to use my best judgement to access whether or not my life was truly in danger, yes, a difficult thing to do in such a situation, difficult to read their mind if they plan on taking your life or not. You just have to trust your gut. Like we say, my life or his!
That's where I stand.

[Nevermore]

I am absolutely against the use of deadly force for property defend, but i am absolutely FOR the use of deadly force for home defence.
If someone is stealing my car, i can't simply shoot at him and kill him, better to use rubber or bean shotgun, he is not directly threatening our life so..i suppose is better to put him down or make him flee.
Instead if he breaks into my home, he is directly threatening me, so only the use of deadly force is advisable for me, and being shotgun a bit hard to manage inside an home, a .38Sp, 9mm, or .45 should be better...
Beside that, i wish the law over here would bring back the forced labors, is not good to see the fucking thieves laying in bed all day long, eating and watching tv, better they work and pay for what they eat.
death penalty? i am absolutely against, the death is a too sweet punishment and usually can't be reverted back to life in case of error (the judges are becaming more and more asshole), better some good and healty work in a salty mine or lifelong labor..that is a much more horrible punition!
The law over here is a shit, completely protect the thieves, you kill them since at nite they entered you home with a 12'' blade? well YOU go to jail, since you used a firearm against a blade..you could have managed, he has to live, he had a bad family hystory, and all those bullshits.
We are not allowed to bring firearm out of home unless they are closed in their box and without ammunitions, we need a license for them, that is always more expensive, and for getting you have to be examined by a psichiatrist..
well i already wrote those things..this place is becoming a shit, i've never seen so many assholes working together for making stupid laws...

[tingtao]

Yes nevermore I do agree with you concerning brute force and the death penalty. I just wanted to make note of the experience I witnessed in the past to indicate (as many already know) that you can't even trust the law being on your side.

A shame Italy is becoming bad in those aspects. My brother is planning on leaving the U.S for southern Italy. At the same time, he is not a weapons type of man and is more into the 'free' life of art, culture, cuisine and those other aspects that Italy is world renown for. Gee, do you think he should think over his decision?!
Good day!

[Nevermore]

I think he won't feel comfortable over here, being used in the US here is a completely different world.
I've been in us a few times and i must say that i like over there, if not for one reason, the distances are enormous so doing is very hard to keep in touch with friends..but beside that, what is fun to do over there? after going a few times to mall i got bored, pubs are nice expecially if you find live music, but u'll get tired even of that, shops never close, that's the thing i like most, but too many poor ppl..
well i don't know, maybe he find comfy here, i would rather move to switzerland, next to the italian border: being in a neutral contry, rich, with italy near for good food and shopping, highly civilized, very nice envirorment..maybe a bit expensive..
but well, have you ever seen the swiss mountains homes? like in the cartooon....

[tingtao]

Well I don't want the post to stray, but I want to thank you for your first hand advice. When I meet with my brother next week for coffee I will put these things on the table to him. Although he seems pretty set. He's been to south Italy a couple times and I think he said something about being tired of us Americans being too arrogant, and selfish and mixed up priorities and morals and values and whatever. I don't know. Those are his opinions and observations. So to each is own I suppose.
I have to admit if I had to live in Europe (or anywhere else in the world) I may miss the convienence of chain stores like Home Depot, Walmart, Office Depot, etc. But at the same time, it may be nice to live a bit more simpler. Maybe all these stores can be a negative thing as well. But I do like the U.S. for the numerous amount of convienent resources.
Anyway, I don't want to ramble on.

Thank you for your advice.
Talk to you later.

[Flake2m]

The main problem with the self defence issue is that both parties go too far. Because of adrenaline, because someone is scared, because someone has a big gun and they want to use it. Whatever the reason it is some people have to understand that you only need to use as much force as nessecary, sometimes this can be hard but if the guy is running away you dont need to shoot them in the back.

If anyone has watched "Andy McNab's the Ultimate warrior" which on the FTP then you'd know that the founder of the SAS; Sterling, regretted killing a group of germans with a hand grenade because it was a waste of human life. It was also stated that if you have to kill someone then do it as quickly and proffesionally as possible because its not nice for them.

What I am trying to say here is that if you are defending your property, dont go in with all guns blazing, try to be level headed and if you manage to surprise them first if possible give them a warning that they are on your property and ask them to leave.

Heres an example:
At 3am in the morning you wake up to here voices and strange noise outside, You grab you double barrelled shotgun and go outside to find two men trying to steal your car. Since you surprised them first you now have several options.
1. Shoot them on sight
2. Tell them to leave
3. Let them steal your car
If you have a level head then the best option is #2. I'd give them a warning like "I am giving you ten seconds to simply walk away".
This gives the intruders options, they can
1. walk away
2. attack the guy with the shotgun
3. steal the car
If they picked #1 then everyone wins, they live for another day and you keep the car. #2 and they are likely to end up in a body bag since they dont know if the gun is loaded or not.

So to sum it all up; If you remain calm when in a situation then you are likely to walk away without firing a shot. Dont kill them unless you have no choice.

[tingtao]

Flake2m...very well said! That should put a cap on that particular situation. Now for the 500ms episodes, there is obviously no time to even think, let alone converse, it's instinct and reflex then, whether or not the perp is bluffing or not, is not the issue, you have to assume the worse.
Let's hope none of us are put into the situation, but if we are unfortunately placed so, gee, I would hope we are fortunate enough to have the time to access the situation, use a clear mind, and each side would be able to continue on breathing.
We have to be prepared for the worst of times, but the only revelation of our actions is amongst the actual situation. Again, let's hope we never have to 'learn the hardway.'

The eduction of this forum can help us use preparation to turn into prevention....for the most part.;)

[Jacks Complete]

Flake2m,

in the UK, if that was even a baseball bat, let alone a gun, and you threatened the two theives, odds are they would just pull a mobile phone on you (probably stolen from a kid earlier that night) and call the police. The cops would turn up with a trauma team to consel the poor villains, while you get to spend the night (at least) in a cell. You would then have to pray that the theives didn't press charges, or sue you for loss of earnings, using public funds.

If anyone thinks I am joking, I can only say that I wish that I was.

If I used a gun, even a legally held one, I would go to jail unless I was very lucky, and the police would take the gun and license away at the same time as you. You wouldn't ever get it back.

Is it any wonder that while the gun crime rate goes up, the crime rate goes up, standards of living go down, etc. Parliament spend all thier time thinking up new Facist laws that no-one cares about, like how the council can cut your high hedges and bill you, if someone complains... It truely beggars belief.

The current "bright idea" is to ban replica firearms because gunmen are walking into people's homes and shops and executing them with (already banned) handguns, with no regard for the dozens of by-standers. If anyone can explain that one, they must be a politician.

Sorry, rant over.

[Anthony]

"I may miss the convienence of chain stores like Home Depot, Walmart, Office Depot, etc. But at the same time, it may be nice to live a bit more simpler."

I couldn't help but smile at this. We too have chain stores :) In fact I think I saw a MacDonalds the other week!

That "simple" life comes at a cost though, can you deal with having no electricty and shitting in a bucket outside?

:D ;)

[Sparky]

Flake2m, I agree that people probably tend to overreact when defending their home. I think a lot of the reason is that they want to punish the perpetrator for violating their home.

But in your example where you scare off the car theives not everybody wins if they walk away. The thieves will just go steal someone elses car. Also, if they know that you will do that (let them walk away) then there is no deterrent. Might as well try stealing your car, there is nothing to lose. Chances are good that they will come back in a little while and try to steal your car again. But this time you won't catch them.

Or even worse if they they have a juvenile mindset they might want 'revenge' for you threatening them (yes it's rather irrational but I think it can happen, especially with 'gangsters' who have lots to prove). They can come back and do basically whatever they want to your house at some other time.

[tmp]

tingtao, I sympathize with the poor man put in jail for defending what belongs
to him. Shooting someone for being on the property ? That sounds like a
law that Louisianna had years ago. As for the race card being played, it seems
common where the victim is white and the criminal is non-white. Nevermind that
a crime was taking place. I've been a crime victim many times. The 1 time I
used a gun to scare them off my guns were confiscated and I went to jail.
There will always be people who say it's not worth it. I disagree. My grandmother
was beaten to death in her own home. The murderer got away with it because
his asshole lawyer claimed that his client's rights were violated and the Baltimore
City Police botched up the damn case with incompetent forensics investigations.
The police, prosecutors, and judges often seem to be on the wrong side of law.

[wrench352]

Its been a while since I looked at this thread and I see and understand the property defense vs home defense.All of my home defense weaponry is geared to be "terminally effective".Most of the problems I see in my area are caused by punk kids,under 21.To cut to the chase does anybody remember "salt shot"?Basically shotshells loaded with rocksalt IIRC.My shotgun is my primary homedefense weapon and these were the original non-lethal load.I wonder if these are still sold?Ive read about the pepper loads,but these would send lil chunks of salt a good ways(as opposed to a fine cloud of pepper),I heard they could penetrate the skin and hurt like the dickens.

[xyz]

Salt shells are still available, search on google.

[Mike76251]

I don't think about it much but I guess I should.
Time's up..........cross property line-die
I have waay too many weapons (is that possible?) and I really got all of them to use against anything with a badge.

I have a question for some here,
You state that you might get in trouble for shooting a would-be robber or the like.........the only way I see to get in trouble is by calling the police after something happened right?
The question is this...........why on earth would you ever call a cop for ANY REASON?

[matjaz]

I live in a cute country with a low crime rate and likely unarmed burglars. Having a pepper spray at the front door and one at my bed feels like an overkill. Maybe I'm an untypical forumite... I really am a peaceful guy and so far I feel safe.

BUT, if I ever felt the health or life of my beloved ones were in danger, I would probably cross every line without thinking. Every household is full of horrible tools once you're that far.

[Bert]

The salt load is optimised by pouring melted bacon grease in amongst the pieces of rock salt. This solidifies, and the resulting "soft slug" has a lot better carry- If you shot someone at indoor ranges, it would likely kill. But it's ideal for teaching a kid stealing your produce or gasoline on the farm a lesson- Just aim low...

[Voyager]

AR-15 beside my desk, HK-USP Tactical and Benelli M-1 Super-90 by the bed, miscellaneous other firearms placed discreetly about the house.

We don't do trigger locks, guns seldom find their way back into the gun safe, and I just bought another five thousand rounds of ammunition.

Colorado has a very well written home defense law. It summarizes nicely into "Bad people deserve what they get."

I feel sorry for you folks who live in less freedom-loving parts of the globe!

I don't even have to lock my house doors -- ain't no one coming in.

[tmp]

Where I live the cops are fucking useless ! You can count on them to pull
you over for traffic offenses, writing parking tickets, or harassment for any
minor bullshit. I have nothing but derision for these locals. They have
never been there for me, my friends, or my family when we needed them.
It seems they exist to keep us under their foot and to kiss the asses of
the corrupt politicians.

[NickSG]

Voyager- If I were you I would rethink where you put your guns. Before I owned any guns, my house was broken into, and had I had guns laying around the house, the intruder could have easily picked it up, and someone would have got hurt.

Now, I keep a Remington 870 under my bed, a Marlin 60 leaning against my nightstand, and a Glock 19 on the nightstand. Everything else is in the safe. If you feel the need to have a gun everywhere you go, buy a good holster. Most holsters are pretty confortable, so chances are you wouldnt notice it while walking around the house.

[Voyager]

Texas is normally very friendly to honest citizens and pretty unfriendly to thieves.

Not today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3957398/

Police- Homeowner Didn't Have To Use Deadly Force
KXAS-TV
Police now say they think a shooter in Grand Prairie did not have to use deadly force.

Foyil Edward Deal, 63, says two men stormed his home and forced him to withdraw cash from an ATM Tuesday morning.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the drive home, Deal, who has a concealed handgun license, says he pulled out a pistol from his pocket and shot Wesley Lewis Duncan, 40, and Wylie Bailey Casey, 35, in the head.

"They may have known about him, may have known he had monies," Detective John Brimmer (pictured, left) said.

Deal is in the Dallas County Jail after a judge set bond at $750,000.

A grand jury will hear the case to decide if there is enough evidence to prosecute the case.

Consuelo Mendoza is standing by her neighbor's story.

"I can only tell you that people have been coming in and out of there that we don't know, that is not normal for him," he said.

"For him to have done this, he would have been extremely threatened," he said.

Duncan had a lengthy criminal record that included burglary charges.

[Acrolein]

I would screw up the guy's life if he were trying to rob me! I have a security system, motion detectors, and three pistols (always cocked and loaded), and thanks to my neighbors that went so far as to vandalize their own house, a security camera. Virginians don't take lightly to robbers, but the number of niggers in Richmond!:eek: It makes me wonder if tomorrow the projects will spring up next door tomorrow...:rolleyes: He would certianly be a outlet for all of my anger and troubles, they would go into the beating.

[Cobalt.45]

I have a security system, motion detectors, and three pistols (always cocked and loaded)
Condition 1, hopefully. You don't want to be your own assassin.

Condition 3 is my choice. Nothing says "I own you", like the sound of a M1911 racking a round...:D

[Ygarl]

The current UK situation with new laws is not that the laws are Facist, but in fact are old-school Communist a-la the USSR.

More and more restrictive left-wing legislation is being passed all the time making it more and more like wandering around in bubble-wrap and cotton wool everywhere you go.

People get shot by nut-jobs in a school: ban guns. Now only criminals shoot at you.

The local council doesn't like your peaceful protest against 20% rise in Council Taxes (currently going from about £120 a month to £150 a month next year - or $220 up to about $280 USD!). Now the Council can put an Anti-Social Behavior Order on you forbidding you from protesting in public or printing any material which contradicts Council policy in regards to taxes - which means you are legally allowed to protest BUT legally you can't break an ASBO NOT to protest. (!!!!)

Just 2 years ago, your right to not incriminate yourself was taken away in Britain. Last year, your right not to be tried for the same crime twice was taken away.

It just goes on and on. The UK used to have as much freedom in law, and even a larger public acceptance of the individual's right to be unique than the USA.

In other words, if you went down the street with bright pink hair and a safety pin in your nose, you'd never get a second look in 90% of the UK. You most certainly would in almost any US city except maybe NY, Vegas or some parts of LA.

It is pathetic what the UK government has become in just the last 15 years since I got here. Horrifyingly, the US government has slid even farther the same way since I left!

[anonymous411]

"Flake2m, I agree that people probably tend to overreact when defending their home. I think a lot of the reason is that they want to punish the perpetrator for violating their home."

I don't want to punish them for violating my home, I want to prevent them from violating ME. How am I supposed to know they won't kill me after I cooperate with them? If I let them go, how do I know they wouldn't come back to finish the job? I'm not prey, and I'll be damned if I'll roll over and volunteer to be somebody's victim.

If I killed a home intruder, I'd honestly have a hard time deciding whether or not to call the police. I guess it would depend on how likely it was anyone else saw them (or knew they were coming).

[AKAZZ]

I would have two choices ether.

1. Take my de-act AKSU off the wall and see if the thieving scum knows the difference

2. Level the crossbow at him and see whether he likes being at the pointy end of that

Obviously I am a law abiding member of the community and wouldn’t even think of pulling the trigger;)

[Rbick]

I live in a rural part of the United States, and have a good number of weapons, including my AK-47 and M4 assault rifles. If a robber were to break into my home, I would without hesitation shoot him where he stood. What if he had a knife or a handgun? You can't automatically decide wheather he has violent intent or not. I think it is best to be safe and just shoot the bastard.

Everyone has the right to defend themselves and their property. My condolences go out to that poor fellow who was put in jail for exercising these God given rights.

[GMike63]

Isn't at least one state considering a "homeowner protection law", where they can't even arrest and book you if they arrive at your house and find a body. Of course you state you feared for your life and ther is no evidence to show otherwise. Currently they would drag you down town to "take a statement", that turns into a major interrogation till they find something to charge you with, even if it looks like justifiable self-defense.

I have several legally owned handguns and rifles locked in gunsafe (concern is liability if they are stolen and used in a crime), but keep Mossberg 500 easily accessible with 00 buck ready to go.

[PYRO500]

I have a S&W .357, carry concealed license both of witch never are more than an arms length away. I load the 357 with 38 special at night (357 gives off a mind boggling muzzle flash). When I go out on calls I set the alarm via fob rc, do so much as jiggle the door a little and I get a page on my cell phone telling me what is happening. I have a wireless cellular internet pcmcia card on my van's laptop which can connect to my Linksys WVC200 pan tilt and zoom camera at the single touch of a hot key.

On both entrance doors to my house I have steel door frames, high security strike plates that are TIG welded into the frame. I switched from biometric deadbolts (kept getting rejected from calloused scarred and dirty fingers) back to grade 1 commercial double sided deadbolts lathed to accept GM 10 cut cylinders to fit my van's key.

On another note, my neighbors who live in a trailer have been burgled several times in the past few years, yet ever since they built the projects down the road, no one has tried to break into this one. I suppose they could try to break the downstairs double paned windows, and I have thought of that, but I don't get discounts on security laminates witch you can make an entry through glass much much more difficult with I figure I spent about 2000 wholesale on the electronic security system parts and got my doors, and frames from a storage shed place that was torn down for free :-) deadbolts were a wholesale order for my business' stock and the automotive locks were taken from a job where I replaced all the locks (foolishly at customer request and greater expense to him) so it took probobly 20-25 hours to install the frames, hang the doors, align the hinges, weld where it had been cut previously and fabricate custom tailpieces for the deadbolts. All in all I now know that if my motion alarm goes off I can check to see who it is, and if it is a package being dropped off I can get there before anyone might even walk up to the house and notice it.

[Fourfifth]

I read somewhere a few years ago, that in the US, you are allowed to shoot/shoot back as long as you only used the 1 clip/mag. Is this true?

Here in England, we have the Right to Bare Palms ;) And I would do anything to defend my castle, and my family within.

A few years ago when I was around 10-11, I was staying at my Uncles, and was in my cousins room, where we were sleeping. A burglar decided to choose the room we were sleeping in as his entry point. We woke up, and both charged him before he got in(trying to close the window), anyway, he got knocked and fell from the top floor. He hobbled off whilst we were trying to wake my Uncle.

[kafrboomer]

Well I live in Texas, and recently a law was passed that said if a man is caught illegally on your property you do in fact have the right to shoot. So I would plan to uphold every right given to me. The weopon would in fact be a 9mm Berreta. I would give a quick warning that would be quickly followed by a warning shot. If this does not drive a person away then I will let bullets fly.

[hot04wrx]

Here in N.Y. we are considered the lawsuit state.

There have been 3 cases that have been confirmed to me buy friends in LE that regarded perps performing B and E, getting injured by the homeowner, arrested, then starting a civil suit for some lame ass junk and winning.

One in particular was a guy broke into a garage when no one was home except for mans best friend and the dog took chunks of flesh out of the perp and when the owners got home the police were notified and the perp was arrested and hospitalized. After about a week, animal control showed up to the house and took the dog and had him destroyed under a local at risk animal act. THAT WAS F%&$ing ridiculous to me.

At least in FL you can shoot to kill to protect your property and/or person.

I personal had a local crack head come into my hallway of my apartment and threaten my life and my families life right to me. My year old daughter was in the other room sleeping might I say. He went as far as to grab the collar of the shirt I was wearing. Little did he know I had Mr. Glock 23 .40 on my person.

I did have enough reaction time to push him away and draw the sidearm and he disengaged the confrontation immediately without having to fire a single round. I notified the local LE immediately and they arrested him after taking my statement.

There was a long drawn out court case but in the end he was in jail and I was back on the couch watching tv. The arrested officer told me “you should have just put him down; It would’ve been easier for all of us.” My reply to that was that “I would’ve but our justice system is ass backwards.”

For me, I’m at the point where if my family is danger I will not hesitate firing if it is a last resort. I look at it this way, if for some stupid ass reason I got arrested for a justifiable discharge of a firearm or justifiable homicide, Ill just bail my self out and waste a lot of time in court, BUT there will be one less idiot off the street.

Thank you all for listening to my rant.

[Kaydon]

I figure it, if anyone breaks into even my property line.. they are as good as dead. I recently installed a 7' tall fence with a 1' barb wire rim, and an electrical shock system that I turn on before bed. I also have a Colt 1911 on the back of my night stand. There's a Springfield XD in the drawer. Remington 870 in the closet, another 870 behind the door. This is just in my bed room. I also carry a 1911 everywhere I go.

So yeah sure, break in and die. Cops can lick my ball sack.. If anyone expects me to just let people break into my shit.. well, they're in for a surprise.

[Tinton]

This is just me, but I wouldn't like to hassle with wrongful death lawsuits and such, nor do I want blood all over my carpet. BUT, I would be prepared to defend my life.
As for my attack, pump turkey gun nearby, 2 in the magizine, 0 in the chamber. If I heard the burglar(s), I'd slap a round into that chamber.

Can you imagine being in someone else's home, in the dark, and hearing the SHUCK SHUCK of a round being chambered?
As for the ammo, probably rock salt as the first shot, and a slug as the second.

[hot04wrx]

Can you imagine being in someone else's home, in the dark, and hearing the SHUCK SHUCK of a round being chambered?
As for the ammo, probably rock salt as the first shot, and a slug as the second.

That is what we were taught in our permit class here..... I 110% agree. If that didn't get there attention mabey the next sound will.:D

[festergrump]

I disagree completely.

I notice alot of people like to rely on that telltale action-racking sound of a shotgun, semiauto rifle, or even pistol on many of the gun boards I frequently drop in on. IMHO, this is bad news. So is the firing of a warning shot. This is called posturing.

Why would you want to alert a burglar or other evil-doer to the fact that you are armed? So he can ready his weapon towards the sound of the threat to him? Suppose he doesn't see any viable option to retreat and thinks the only way to live beyond this is to go through you. What then? Now he has YOU at somewhat of a disadvantage because you no longer have surprise on your side and he has a general knowledge of your whereabouts (even in complete darkness)...

Never aim at something you are not willing to shoot and never shoot something you are not willing to destroy. If you are not willing to take on that mindset as your own, perhaps a firearm is a poor choice for you to have in a self defense situation.

If the perpetrator is in possession of a gun, I highly doubt he brought it along to just to intimidate you with.

Shoot the idiot from the first shot on with the intent of killing him. Stop ONLY when you can be sure he is no longer a threat to you. If you think he's dead, poke him with a stick or the barrel of your rifle in the eye to be sure.

[tingtao]

You have no right being in my damn domain! Too bad for you! And ESPECIALLY when it comes to covering the wife and kids!!! See ya!

[Charles Owlen Picket]

I would do what needs to be done as fast as I could once the threat was identified and as completely as needed. I would call the sheriff as it seems a responsible thing to do. but that would occur only after I made very, very cold damn sure that the fuck-head made that last shake-breath & was becoming room temperature with all natural haste.

I might bury the garbage and save everyone the trouble; as I would be extremely angry. If he was a rag-head I would wrap him in bacon for his snooze in the garbage-bag. If he was Mexican I might wrap him in soap.

[nbk2000]

When I saw 'O Rly', I automatically thought of that same picture! :D

Too much time on 4chan, I guess.

There's even a website dedicated to the whole 'O Rly' owl, ran by the guy who took the original picture (minus the pithy meme).

http://www.orlyowl.com/

[nbk2000]

Fester and kaydon, you both get to sit in the corner for a while and reflect on your behaviors.

On the internet, no one knows you are a dog...unless you bark!

If you act like a nigger, hooting and hollering, then by God you must be a nigger or wigger, either one of which isn't welcome here.

Keep it civil or the bans become permanent.

Kaydon...you especially, as you haven't been here long enough to count as a human fuckin' being as far as I'm concerned, let alone someone to keep around despite a foul mouth and a hair-trigger ego.

Alexeris, shut the fuck up and don't be jumping in where you shouldn't be. If you see two men dead on the ground, do you walk up and start talking trash about them when their killer is still standing there with a smoking gun?

WHOOMP! There it is!

[The Duck Man]

Hm. Here in Germany, we are in luck. The "Self defense excess" is, by definition, illegal, but the attached maximum punishment is: Nothing.

Self defense excess means that, while defending basic rights of either yourself of others, you react to an offender with much more than appropriate force (IE handgun versus fists).

That said, I subscribe to the policy taught to me during my time in the army: Fast, unlimited escalation. He threatens you? Tell him to shut up. He has a weapon? Draw yours, cock it, safety off. He touches his? Aim for COM or the head, if you're feeling particularly bitchy at the time. He makes ANY move WHATSOEVER towards you with said weapon? Three rounds, two in the chest, one in the head.

[hot04wrx]

I agree Duck Man. In my situation the guy made 2 negative moves towards me which in turn the 2nd was physical. He wasn’t leaving my property with me just asking him then TELLING him. It’s not my goal in life to kill some idiot, but my reaction to his negative action got him off my property without me having to use my gun and him getting dead.

We have the same kind of written law here but it contains a 3rd party clause that says that if you feel or see a 3rd person be harmed or in danger of being harmed, you are allowed to defend that be any means necessary.

Sorry if my method made anyone mad. It worked for me.

[Alexires]

Sorry NBK.

In Aus, we are expected to either leave and ring the cops, stay and ring the cops, or get beaten, shot, killed, etc.....then ring the cops.

Of course, where I live, the nearest cop (unless I'm "lucky") would probably be a good 20 minutes away.

Plenty of land around my place. If someone came to steal something, I'd try to knock them out and ring the cops. If they happened to die while I was doing that, then they might find themselves looking for worms somewhere.

I don't have a gun (its Australia. No one has one....except the guy robbing you) but I'm not a half bad shot with a bow and arrow. Yes, sounds like a ninja thing, but when you don't have anything to work with, you do the best you can. Pin the fucker to his car with an arrow, then deal with him.

Problem with giving someone a warning and letting them run off is they then know where you live, what you are armed with (if you warned them with your weapon). It would be an attractive target if they knew you had 4 or 5 firearms lying around for the taking. If they go grab a few mates, then you are in the shit.

Prevention is probably the best course here. A mean dog and other kinds of things to persuade them to look somewhere else.

[Vitalis]

One of the few things I like about Florida is the “Castle Doctrine” (SB-436). The "Castle Doctrine" simply says that if a criminal breaks into your home, your occupied vehicle or your place of business, you may presume he is there to do bodily harm and you may use any force against him.
It also removes the “duty to retreat” if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be.
Furthermore, this law provides protection from criminal prosecution and civil litigation for those who defend themselves from criminal attack.

So, I would shotgun any intruder to death, no questions asked, no "racking" of the shotgun as a warning, that fucker is DEAD if they intrude on my domain...

In my car, a semi-auto .40 caliber pistol will accomplish the same results. It's legal in FL to carry a loaded weapon in your home, on your property or in your car without a concealed carry permit. Why let some scumbag rob and/or kill you?

[ddriver]

So y'all probably are gonna laugh at me, but I use a paint ball gun.

Anyways I have an Intimidator with a 18 inch ultra-lite barrel and a hopper of 230ish balls, set at ~340 FPS under my bed at all times. Aim at the head and don't stop shooting 'til your shooting dry, they will NOT be conscious (a shot in the temple or the back of the head and your on your knees) but they won't be dead either...probably.

Might get me killed one day but at least I won't have killing someone on my conscience.

[Atra]

As I don't have any guns and as stated earlier explosive devices cause too many problems, that is not an option for me. What I do have however is a 125mW green laser. If its strong enough to light matches from 20 feet away with just visible light then its sure as hell strong enough to blind a burglar. Then come the zip ties. I just have to make sure I warn him before I use it to avoid the whole nasty being sued for blinding a guy part. "Leave my house or your eyes go asshole."

[Vitalis]

A conscience is a dangerous thing to have when it comes to self-defense. If someone breaks into your home, it's kill or be killed. There is no need to feel bad about killing a scumbag criminal who intends to steal your property and/or harm you. Look at it as saving your own life and if you have family living with you, saving their lives as well. I just don't understand anyone who would rather die than feel bad about killing someone in self-defense...? Not an insult, just confusion.