THIS is BAD!

[Nihilist]

this is very very bad for us http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bomber5aug05,1,5930442.story if it asks you for login info use the name test457 and password is "password". The web site may not have contained good information, but the point is that they arrested someone purely for dissemination of it, not for actually making anything. You can also get an account of it from his point of view at www.raisethefist.com This is very very bad, and should be taken quite seriously IMHO.

EDIT: another thing to note is that while the guy did hold strong political views(like most people here), and most of them were anti-government(not anarchist, just against the US gov) the media of course labeled the website as "anarchist" and him as a "terrorist". I had been to his site a few times before this happened, and it held most of the same views on government as the people on this forum do(I know not all of us have the same POV, but I think we can all agree what's been going on of late, is bad news).

[kingspaz]

at the bottom of raisethefist.com:

'Raisethefist.com is not shutting down, and the RTF Direct Action Network will continue to grow and remain active. A 1 year sentence is not the end of this. It's just the begining.'

fighting talk. i like it. remember if the shit hits the fan here thats how we must think. sooner or later we will prevail in such a situation. the imrpovised weapons section ideas may have to be implemented one day ;)

[GibboNet]

It's discusting. What happened to free speech ? I understand what he's doing isn't lawful, but still.

We've been using SWIM believeing it would save us... but when just talking about these things, not making them still gets you a year of jail... what's the point ?

I can't believe that the government is going this far. Is it going to apply to all such sites ? That puts many here at a great risk.

[EP]

To save people some time:

+++

LOS ANGELES
Man Gets 1 Year for How-To on Explosives
The Sherman Oaks resident, now 20, posted instructions for making Molotov cocktails and other devices on an anarchist Web site.

By David Rosenzweig, Times Staff Writer

A 20-year-old Sherman Oaks man was sentenced to one year in federal prison Monday for offering recipes on how to make Molotov cocktails and other explosive devices on an anarchist Web site he operated.

Sherman Martin Austin apologized before being sentenced in Los Angeles by U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson, saying he was 18 and naive at the time of the offense and didn't realize the seriousness of his actions.

Austin's public defender, the federal prosecutor assigned to the case and the court's pretrial services office had all recommended a lighter sentence of four months in prison and four months in a halfway house.

Wilson did not explain his decision to impose a stiffer penalty, but at a hearing in June, he said that the prosecution wasn't taking the case seriously enough. The judge then directed Assistant U.S. Atty. Rodrigo Castro-Silva to run the proposed four-month prison term past the FBI and Justice Department officials in Washington.

At the outset of Monday's hearing, Castro-Silva told Wilson that the prosecution's position had not changed, setting the stage for Austin's sentencing on a single felony count of distributing information related to the manufacture of explosive devices.

Under federal sentencing guidelines, the judge could have sentenced him to a term of eight to 14 months. Deputy federal Public Defender Ronald Kaye, who negotiated Austin's plea deal with prosecutors, said afterward that he was disappointed by the judge's decision.

He described his client as "a very peaceful person" who got carried away "in a very heated political environment."

Austin's mother, Jennifer, called Wilson shortsighted.

"He doesn't know my son and he doesn't know my family," she said.

Before his arrest in February 2002, Austin had been involved in numerous anti-government protests. According to an FBI report, he was arrested in 2001 during a May Day march in Long Beach and last year during a demonstration in New York against the World Economic Forum.

In the current case, he was charged with instructing visitors to his Web site, http://www.raisethefist.com , on how to make an assortment of explosive devices, including Molotov cocktails, pipe bombs and smoke bombs.

His attorney said Austin did not write the instructions but allowed someone else to post them on his Web site. FBI agents said Austin told them that he had posted the information to "educate" others on how to counter police brutality.

A clinical psychologist who specializes in threat assessments wrote in a report submitted to the court on behalf of the defense that Austin "does not appear to have seriously considered the ramifications" of his actions "and would have been horrified had someone been injured."

After completing his prison term, Austin will be placed on three years of court supervision, under which he will need permission from the federal probation office to operate a computer and will be barred from associating with any groups espousing violence to achieve political, economic or social change.

Austin, who remains free on bond, must surrender in 30 days.

+++

This is bullshit, but they can get away with it nowadays because everyone is running scared of terrorists and licking so much Bush...

[nbk2000]

Sherman Martin Austin apologized before being sentenced in Los Angeles by U.S. District Judge Stephen V. Wilson, saying he was 18 and naive at the time of the offense and didn't realize the seriousness of his actions.


WEAK! If you're going to advocate anarchy and political overthrow, then don't weak when you're busted for it and claim youthful naivite. :rolleyes:

Stick to your beliefs, rant and rave against the system at your trial, take the year (which is about all they can give you) with your head up and back straight, tell 'em you'll do that standing on your head, then recruit like a motherfucker while inside every violent psycho with a grudge you can find and school them in terror! :mad:

THAT'S what you do. :D

He compromised his purported beliefs in order to try and shave off a few months from his sentence. Bleech! How can anyone take the rhetoric on his website seriously when he's bowed down and kissed The Mans ass to try and get a few months off his sentence?

But the real reason why the feds fucked him in the first place is this:


Before his arrest in February 2002, Austin had been involved in numerous anti-government protests. According to an FBI report, he was arrested in 2001 during a May Day march in Long Beach and last year during a demonstration in New York against the World Economic Forum.


As we all know, the feds have always had it in for any sort of political activist, regardless of ideology. COINTELPRO (50's-70's) is probably still active, just deeply hidden, and being used to suppress true political dissent in this country.

If he was just some joe schmoe pyro with a website, the government wouldn't give a shit. BUT, combine politics with the "bomb making instructions", and you've given the government a license to pimp your ass to Bubba. :p

We're non-political. We bitch and gripe about what our respective governments do, but we don't advocate overthrow and insurrection against them. We just like to blow shit up. :)

Now, all this would change if "They" started oppressing us, 'cause then it gets personal when it didnt' have to be.

That's why we have the WMI (Weapons of Mass Instruction) distribute with various people. If shit goes down, and RS.org is 404'd by the feds, then it'll pop back up like a mushroom in dozens of sites around the world. They'll never be able to close them all, 'cause we can set them up faster than they can shut them down. :p

And who knows when some former member might decide "Fuck it!" and go out like a Fedaykin, with a vest of TNP-based blu-tac PBX sheet explosive covered with Hevi-Shot for shrapnel, while at a political rally for some book-burning/gun-banning/freedom-raping politico. ;)

[knowledgehungry]

And who knows when some former member might decide "Fuck it!" and go out like a Fedaykin, with a vest of TNP-based blu-tac PBX sheet explosive covered with Hevi-Shot for shrapnel, while at a political rally for some book-burning/gun-banning/freedom-raping politico.

Of course it is nescessary to point out that no one here will do that under current conditions. But no matter what they shut down etc, we already have the knowledge, in our heads at least. As Gibbo said "i can make a bomb out of common household materials, just give me a roll of toilet paprer and a stick of dynamite" of course you also need a blasting cap :p. E&W is about knowledge only, our members are far too spread across the political spectrum, we have communists, capitalists, anarchists, conservatives, liberals, far right and far left here. Unless they gave us a common thing to fight for (taking our free speech/the froum) we copllectively would never do anything. We are merely a bunch of amateur scientists. If they shut the forum down i would not blow anything up, but i might leave "Primaries for Dummies" lying around at bus stops, schools, etc. Knowledge must not be controlled. I might do nothing and just follow the forum as it moves around the internet, with members starting it up in different countries. But either way there is no way to stop information, they can stop you from blowing thigs up, but they can never stop you from knowing how too.

[static_firefly]

Im not sure if this is a great idea or not, but do you think it would be wise to have backups of the fourm in several different countries so as soon as a law is passed that will take this down, it will pop back up again where the law doesnt mind?

[Nihilist]

erm...static, are you a complete dumbass? Or did you just not read any of the posts at all...

[yt2095]

Just out of curiosity...

Does anyone here ever consider that the information and our individual posts MAY in fact be watched by Terrorists?
I know we are all concerned about infiltration by the law here and we keep an eye on Kewlz.
But any thoughts as wether there maybe ragheads out there working for Osama Big Lamer?

I`ve been thinking about it alot recently, and would HATE to find out that something I typed or thought of had been used to kill or mame some baby or child :(

I`ll certainly be reconsidering WHAT and HOW MUCH I share on here. Sure I beleive in free speach and the right to learn as much Science as possible if it harms non.... but it can`t be garaunteed (sp?) here, nor anywhere :(
I`ll be damned if I risk giving these shitheads any of MY info!
Alah can kiss my ASS!

< rant mode *OFF*>

[nbk2000]

As soon as you start posting something for people to be worrying about, you'll have something to worry about, but, untill then, you have nothing to worry about. :p

And what a perfect cop out that would be..."Oh, terrorists might be reading the Forum, so I can't share my simple technique for turning heavy water into a non-nuclear nuetron bomb (UTFSE). Oh, if only there weren't Al-quada agents lurking the Forum, I could share such gems of my limitless knowledge."

:rolleyes:

If you've got something to say, say it. Who cares if Al-quada ragheads are (?) reading the Forum for ideas. If we censor ourselves out of fear of spreading "dangerous" knowledge, then we don't need the government to it for us, and the ragheads have succeeded in terrorizing us into bleeting sheeple. :mad:

"Rights" become "Privileges" if you don't use them.

Sarevok, in ONE POST (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=42043#post42043), has posted more "dangerous" knowledge than you have in more than 200, so I don't think you have anything to worry about. :)

Until then, don't use the excuse of "terrorists" to explain your lack of posting anything of value. You've been post whoring a lot lately. You may be stuck at home, and there may be shit-all on TV, but we're not here to relieve your boredom. With literally billions of other websites you can visit, and probably just as many chat and IRC channels, you'll find someone to talk to.

In fact, take a week off from posting or be banned, your choice. You've got till midnight Forum time to silence yourself. Since I'm e-mailing this to you as well, if you post, I'll know what your choice is.

[Cyclonite]

I dont think any real terrorist would be making some AP and ANFO off of information from the internet, they have been doing that sort of thing way before the internet was well established. Most major terrorist groups use manufactured explosives they buy off the black market anyways.

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by Cyclonite
I dont think any real terrorist would be making some AP and ANFO off of information from the internet, they have been doing that sort of thing way before the internet was well established. Most major terrorist groups use manufactured explosives they buy off the black market anyways.

Ah, now you speak with wisdom, in my opinion. The real threats, wishing to destroy the Great Satan even if their lives are being destroyed in the process, for Allah's sake, don't need internet "recipes" for making "bombs". Probably, as you said, they use explosives from the black market (explosives manufactured by the government who "fell in the wrong hands" - as if the hands of the government were the right hands for something). Since the government can't admit its various security faults, they just blame the internet and some innocent Jolly Roger wannabe for every illegal explosive in the world.

NBK, about my post on nerve agents, I quote yt2095: Originally posted by yt2095
I`ve been thinking about it alot recently, and would HATE to find out that something I typed or thought of had been used to kill or mame some baby or child. :rolleyes:

[Cyclonite]

Once again I dont think anyone will make V or G nerve agents to squirt in babies eyes,:eek: the only real danger to disseminating all of our colletive information is some dumbshit complacent kid wanting to make a "bomb" and ends up sending shards of steel flying into his little fragile eyes and hands. Its more often than not the "darwin process" that picks out the unsuitable for this hobby but on occasion no matter how cautious you are something does happen.:(

[tmp]

So Austin apologized to an asshole federal judge for exercising his 1ST AMENDMENT rights. Sounds like a lamer to me.
I stood before a judge for exercising my 2ND AMENDMENT rights and refused to apologize. Fuck those assholes !

[me234]

taiban man and his friends will not need to get shit from us, they buy mass quantities of semtex, tnt, whatever they may need form other places, the IRA buys from the libyans for example, they have to quote David Harber "enough misguided pHD's", we are basically just about the chemistry, they don't care about the chemistry, they just want the end result, take my word for it, they do not need us. and as regards to the 'guvna' for throwing a guy in jail for posting COMMOM FUCKING KNOWLEDGE, well fuck him too, rectum snatching asshole, FREEDOM OF SPEECH YOU SHIT-FOR-BRAINS, NBK is right, he should have done his best to kick up a shitstorm, he owes it to himself. A year for molotov's and pipe bombs, that's bullshit. Damn, now I'm pissed off.

P.S. sorry if post whoring a bit

[roux]

i used to frequent the site. and i gotta say, sherman is a good man. remember SHERMAN DID NOT POST THE INSTRUCTIONS. it was some kid who posted info on moltov cocktails, something that doesn even need instruction.

[Aryan_Nations]

Some of you may or may not like this radio broadcast. This guy is all about free speach and his shows airs nightly M-F I think the times are 9-11pm EST and Mondays for 1 hour only. He is very anti-government and is down right to the point. I just thought some of you may find it rather interesting. http://www.halturnershow.com

[Voyager]

Here's another person indicted of the same bizarre crime, this one just last month.

What statute is it that these two are being convicted of? It's prima facie unconstitutional!


"Stephen Jordi was indicted on ..., distributing explosives information, ..., according to the Associated Press."


Man Allegedly Plotting to Bomb Abortion Clinics Indicted

A man who was arrested last month for allegedly plotting to bomb abortion clinics, lesbian and gay bars, and churches that did not condemn abortion was indicted by a grand jury last week. Stephen Jordi was indicted on counts of attempted arson, distributing explosives information, and possessing a silencer, according to the Associated Press. The FBI had been watching Jordi since August after receiving a tip from his brother, Michael Jordi, that Stephen Jordi was planning to attack abortion clinics. The FBI gathered information on Jordi using an informant posing as an anti-abortion extremist. FBI spokesperson Beverly Esselbach said, "He was perilously close to carrying out his plans," according to the Associated Press.

In September 2003, Jordi attended the anti-abortion activities in Florida surrounding the execution of Paul Hill, who murdered an abortion provider and a volunteer escort. He was photographed during these activities with convicted clinic bomber Joshua Graff and Neal Horsley, creator of the "Nuremberg Files" website. FBI agents traced at least six phone calls from Jordi to Graff or Horsley following the execution, the Miami Herald reports.

Earlier in November, US Magistrate Judge Ann Vitunac denied bail for Jordi, declaring him a danger to the community, the Herald reports. If convicted, Jordi faces up to 20 years in prison and as much as $750,000 in fines, according to the Associated Press.

Source: http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=8194

[Voyager]

I finally found the reference I was looking for to the actual law which these guys were indicted under.

It's 18 USC 842 p.

It's online at Cornell at: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/842.html

(p) Distribution of Information Relating to Explosives, Destructive Devices, and Weapons of Mass Destruction. -


(1) Definitions. -

In this subsection -

(A)

the term ''destructive device'' has the same meaning as in section 921(a)(4);

(B)

the term ''explosive'' has the same meaning as in section 844(j); and

(C)

the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' has the same meaning as in section 2332a(c)(2).

(2) Prohibition. -

It shall be unlawful for any person -

(A)

to teach or demonstrate the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute by any means information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, with the intent that the teaching, demonstration, or information be used for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence; or

(B)

to teach or demonstrate to any person the making or use of an explosive, a destructive device, or a weapon of mass destruction, or to distribute to any person, by any means, information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture or use of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction, knowing that such person intends to use the teaching, demonstration, or information for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence


Also relevant are the current Federal sentencing guidelines relating to offenses under this statute: http://www.ussc.gov/2003guid/2k1_3.htm


Basically though, I feel *fairly* safe because of these two provisions of the statute:

"with the intent that the teaching, demonstration, or information be used for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence"

and

"knowing that such person intends to use the teaching, demonstration, or information for, or in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime of violence"


In effect, it's a policy that prevents any sane instructor, publisher, or webmaster from asking a student, customer, or web site user what he intends to do with the knowledge and information.

In short: Don't ask; Don't tell.

[DimmuJesus]

This is good news for forum members with sites or those who redistribute information. It makes sense if someone has a site on "anarchy" and the site contains this information. Any site with an extremist belief, no matter what political viewpoint it is, would be best to leave this material off, for this would be grounds for a criminal charge. But for those that have a non-affiliated website that is just for informational and academic purposes, what can they do?

A well-worded disclaimer would be a great idea to protect yourself.

[me234]

How the fuck did they prove that Sherman let that kid use his site with the intent that that info woluld be used in an illeagal way, how theFUCK DID THE prove his state of mind at the time, please, someone tell me that?

[chemwarrior]

Disclaimers dont do shit.

Me234, chill out. Sheeply automatically assume that if there is information of a 'bad' sort on a website, especially a VERY anti-government website, that it is going to be used for 'evil'. And besides, they dont have to prove shit, for they are the omnipotent government... :rolleyes:

[Red Devil]

Just to see what they actually used against him, this is from the first indictment, allegedly dismissed, copy of which was taken from:

http://www.infosecwest.com/cryptome/usa-v-sma-aca.htm

If I have an update of the Fed cases at work I'll see if I can get an actual copy of the docket filing or at least the Court opinion. I'm not sure if my boss spent the moey for yearly updates or not.

From all I've read it seems they prosecuted using the new Patriot Act, but I couldn't come up with anything relating to distribution of info in that, but as VOYAGER already posted, there is a clause in 18 USC 842. I'll see what I can come up with if time permits.

** From: http://www.infosecwest.com/cryptome/usa-v-sma-aca.htm :

"STATEMENT OF PROBABLE CAUSE

10. On January 24, 2002, pursuant to a Federal Search Warrant of AUSTIN's residence located at [address omitted], Sherman Oaks, California, FBI Special Agents conducted a search of the residence of AUSTIN. The affidavit in support of the search warrant is attached hereto and incorporated herein by reference.

11. At the time of the search, when he was not in custody, AUSTIN told me, among other things, the following information:

a. AUSTIN authored the webpage, RAISETHEFIST.COM/NEWS.CGI?ARTICAL=WIRE/83903T4A.ARTICLE (Anti-WEF webpage), which had the title of "ANTI-CAPITALIST CONVERGENCE NEW YORK" and included the following:

i. "Shut down the WEF!" (WEF was an abbreviation for the World Economic Forum, which was held on or about January 31 through February 4, 2002 in New York city.)
ii. "This guide was developed as means to inspire and inform participants of the upcoming resistance in NY against the World Economic Forum. With this convergence comes the need to organize security, safety and direct action. The information within these pages is to hopefully strengthen these tactica amongst our resistance."

iii. "Stop the WEF by any means necessary!"

iv. Links to "Security Culture," "Black Bloc," "Defense Weapons," and "Shields."

b. AUSTIN authored the webpage RAISETHEFIST.COM/EXIT/WEAPONS.HTML, which had the title "defensive weapons" and was the link to "Defense Weapons." This webpage included the following information:

i. "In developing defensive-offense tactics, our bodies cant provide for everything we do in a battle. That is why we need to be prepared with the proper tools to execute our goal."
ii. "Many different weapons and tools can be used in street fighting. Make sure that you keep them clean of fingerprints, DNA fibers (hair follicles, etc.), especially explosives because they may not always ignite."

iii. "The following weapons are widely used and effective in executing the goal of the demonstration." This statement was followed by instruction on making and use of slings, slingshot, boomerangs, ninja stars, Molotov cocktails, smoke bombs, fuel-fertilizer explosives, pipe bombs, draino bomb, soda bottle bomb, and match head bomb.

iv. "Bust out Bart Simpson style and fire some tiny metal pellets at pigs. Very effective when used by large groups at once" was referenced under the use of slings.

v. "These easily available or homemade items are great when dealing with illegal situations. It can shield any media or police cameras from catching anyone on from participating in an illegal act. It can also disorient the police when they are advancing on the crowd" was referenced under the usage of smoke bombs.

vi. "Remember, be careful and responsible with these explosives. Don't blow yourself up, or any of your comrades! Don't get caught!"

c. AUSTIN authored the webpage, RAISETHEFIST.COM/EXIT/MOLOTV.HTML, had the title "Molotov Cocktails" and included the following:

i. "There are many variations of the molotov cocktail. The classic is a glass bottle filled with gasoline. An oily soaked rag is placed in the neck of the bottle. The rag is lit on fire and the bottle is thrown at the opposition. However, practice has created new models of the molotov that defeat the classic version."
ii. "To make a firewall, simply fill bottles with rubbing alcohol and light the mixture. These bottles should be lined up side by side to create a large area of fire that police will not walk through."

iii. "By far the stickiest mixture is 50% gasoline, with 25% tar and 25% grease. Shake well and throw hard!"

iv. The most high explosive and lethal mixture is amonium-nitrate-based fertilizer mixed with gasoline. Just stuff the bottle with this mixture and light the fucker. This method should be made with a plastic bottle so that it will not break on impact. When you light it, the bottle will quickly explode so be quick. Using a fuse is a good idea."

This is only a partial of the affidavit filed.

[tmp]

:mad:

The feds are going down a slippery slope. How long will it be before just posting
explosives information, without criminal intent, becomes a crime ? The 1st
Amendment is in serious trouble here. George Bush has already asked Congress
for additional wiretapping authority to combat terrorism. Will we all be labeled
as terrorists if we disagree with the Federal Government ?

[wrench352]

Point in fact they didnt prove shit. They threatened him with 20 years and he caved.
I'd also like to point out that the market in explosive literature is drying up. Most of Paladin press,Desert publications,etc "classic" explosive lit is out of print. I recently paid $45 for a paladin book from a second handbook store. The info contained therin is barely worth it,however to the best of my knowlege,cannot be found elsewhere,if you know what I mean ;) . I dont want to give up the title just yet, but at 56 fucking pages :eek: , should make for a quick and easy scan. The worst part,it,like most of the Paladin explosive library is a reprint of an old govt manual,so Im sure at some point it was probably worth about $8.
Interesting to note is "The Anarchist Crapbook" is still widely available,probably because the info is next to worthless, and doesnt really qualify as dissemination of explosive manufacture. Either that or in some sick way contitutes a "classic".
BTW, alot of y'all just dont get it. He was trying to incite a violent riot,sorry but you do get in trouble for that,the crappy explosives advice was the icing on the cake.

[vurr]

best weapon for mass-destruction is person(s),armed with stupidity.
and reason,what causes that weapon to go off,is another person,who does not understand the first one.

[darkdontay]

Wow well looks like he will not be able to join either the rep or the dems.....

Its all lame, the kid got stupid and ended up on a FBI watch list, not hard but not smart either.. and like the vultures they are they waited in lay for him to spring his own trap... My assumtion is that he also was told to shut up and "take the plea". My view is that with a Neo-Patriot judge., he was scrwed but he should have atleast stood thier for what he belived in, rather then cowering behind a PD.

I hope shit like that do not ever come down to us here.

[knowledgehungry]

I did some research and things may be worse for us than we have thought, according to US Code Title 18,
Chapter 113B, Subsection 2339A pertaining to providing material support to terrorists (a) Offense.— Whoever provides material support or resources or conceals or disguises the nature, location, source, or ownership of material support or resources, knowing or intending that they are to be used in preparation for, or in carrying out, a violation of section 32, 37, 81, 175, 229, 351, 831, 842 (m) or (n), 844 (f) or (i), 930 (c), 956, 1114, 1116, 1203, 1361, 1362, 1363, 1366, 1751, 1992, 1993, 2155, 2156, 2280, 2281, 2332, 2332a, 2332b, 2332f, or 2340A of this title, section 236 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284), section 46502 or 60123 (b) of title 49, or any offense listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B) (except for sections 2339A and 2339B) or in preparation for, or in carrying out, the concealment of an escape from the commission of any such violation, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. A violation of this section may be prosecuted in any Federal judicial district in which the underlying offense was committed, or in any other Federal judicial district as provided by law.

(b) Definitions.— As used in this section—
(1) the term “material support or resources” means any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who may be or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials;
(2) the term “training” means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge; and
(3) the term “expert advice or assistance” means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.

Section 842 says that (a) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in explosive materials without a license issued under this chapter;

According to this giving instruction to anyone who does not have a BATF license on how to make an explosive knowing that they intend to make said explosive could be charged as a federal offense with up to a 15 year prison sentence:eek: .

[fiknet]

Wow knowledgehungry that law is incredibly harsh for its broadness :eek:.

That brings up something that has been puzzling me, now I'm not familiar with US law but how can the above law pretty much "throw the book" at someone who tells you how to make black powder yet you can freely buy cases of Tannerite ( Which is basically an ANFO ) with no legal qualms whatsoever and the product is specifically sold for the intention of being formed into an explosive and detonated.

What's that? Jimmy told Billy how to make AP?!? Throw the book at him!! Son you are going away for along time to a place where you deserve to be:mad:.

What's that? Jimmy and his friends just detonated a 1 pound Tannerite target? Oh never mind about stuff like that.

Man law does confuse me sometimes:confused: .

What this looks like to me an attempt set the legal precedent for the government to stop terrorists from getting information from sites like these and put the owner (Mega) in jail however like "advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge." says most of this information when traced back originates from some patent or scientific text where from the original information is taken, tested, experimented and the results and any personal experiences added and is not created on www.anarchybombz101.com or something similar.

By this law posting or saying something like "Hey check out Patent No.###### it has a great RDX synthesis" would put you in jail but perhaps a little re-wording e.g. "Look at Patent No.###### The author structures his words very well and it uses a very nice font" could work our way around this law because you are providing the information with the intent on admiring the authors writing skills and not making explosives:p .

[knowledgehungry]

I do not think posting instructions on how to make RDX is illegal according to this law, but if a forumite says "I want to make RDX tell me how so I can do it" then it is breaking the law. The key line is Whoever provides material support or resources or conceals or disguises the nature, location, source, or ownership of material support or resources, knowing or intending that they are to be used in preparation for, or in carrying out, a violation of section...

All the more reason to not spoonfeed people I guess, not that finding this law is really going to change my posting habits as if I was charged I would get some good 1st Amendment rights lawyers on my side (hopefully pro bono;) ;) ) and fight these over the top laws. For know I am assuming that everyone here has all the appropriate permits and please do not inform me otherwise :D.

[megalomania]

Well here is a blast from the past. Yes, the feds want to make it illegal for you to instruct a person who INTENDS to do harm with the bomb. If you don't know what a person is going to do with their knowledge, it's not your fault.

While this is how the feds INTEND to use the law, the lawyers are already preparing to challenge this on constitutional grounds if they ever try it. They have not tried to do this yet, probably because they know they will lose and get the entire case dismissed.

The best laid plans of despotic federal agencies ang gaft awry...

[knowledgehungry]

I just reread the law and it actually seems I misinterpreted it, section 842(m) or (n) deals with plastic explosives without a detection agent. The law about manufacturing explosives without a permit is section 842 (a). On my first read throught I thought that the law pertaining to material support of terrorists was referring to all of section 842 rather than just the parts (m) and (n). I am sorry for the false alarm.