Improvised Concealable weapon

[cutefix]

Look at this folks.
http://datacenter.ap.org/wdc/fbiweapons.pdf
Concealable weapons that the FBI thought can be used as potential weapons for terrorists (in airplanes?) in the same line as ordinary box cutters.
Can any of you guys make an improvised version of these items that cannot be noticed easily on inspection and can be used to defend oneself in life saving situation supposing you do not have enough martial art skill to fend and assailant effectively but still have the guts to fight by whatever means ?

[EP]

PDF doesn't work for me.:confused:

Anyway, I'm looking at buying one of these...

http://www.smartcart.com/selfdefence/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=PK1

[angelo]

A pen knife would come in handy. But the whole idea of the article is to let the dicks in security know whats out there.

I like the idea of a knife in a bullet. What's the point?

Many of those tools could be improvised, but to make them 'invisible' to metal detectors you need to use ceramics and plastics, both of which are hard to mchine without the proper tools ($$$$)

[zaibatsu]

That's a good PDF - it gives you so many ideas. I don't understand the bullet knives though - wouldn't ammunition be illegal to carry on board anyway? But the ones concealed in belts etc seem a good idea, especially because they will just think it's a buckle if it sets of an alarm. There are designs for some of the items shown in one of the PMJBs.

[nbk2000]

"Bullet" knives wouldn't make it onto the plane anyways, because ammo is forbidden.

What I noticed about a lot of the plastic blades is that the blade is virtually invisible on an X-ray, but the handle (being thicker) usually stands out. Case in point: Lettuce knives. If you removed the handles, the blades would easily pass through an X-ray since it's going to be jumbled in with all the usual traveling knick-knacks.

If a person machined a grove into something like a hairbrush handle, and had a little tube of superglue, they could simply put the plastic blade into the hairbrush handle and superglue it in place, making a lethal knife in mid-flight. :)

Also, since you know the orientation of the X-ray machine, you would place the blades in the luggage so the knife is edge-on towards the X-ray, making it even more invisible. :p

Or, how about this:

A reusable heating pack (the ones you snap, not the air-activated ones) is wrapped in some paper towel, activated, then a tube of Sarin that was smuggled onto the plane in the terr's ass is poured onto the papertowel. All this is done in the bathroom while the plane is in flight.

The terrorist has pre-dosed with PAM-2 and atropine prior to pouring out the Sarin. Not because he's trying to survive, since it IS a suicide mission, but rather so he doesn't drop dead before he can complete assembly of the weapon.

The heating pack procedes to vaporize the Sarin which is exposed in a high surface area by the paper toweling. A well *cough*stretched*cough* terr should be able to get at least 6 ounces of GB up his ass and onto the plane, which would be likely be at least a couple LD50's in the confines of a plane. If you had several terr's on board the plane, none of which knows the other is there, then you'd ensure success and mega-dosing of the airplanes passengers and crew. :D

Or, if they have a woman martyr, silicone boob implants that's designed to be filled with saline. The implants are left empty until immediately prior to her boarding the plane. The implant is filled with Sarin, instead of saline, in a van in the airport parking lot and the martyr gets on board the plane (assuming the implant is at least somewhat impermeable to GB penetration for a couple of hours) where she then cuts her own tits open, spilling out the 98&degF Sarin.

Or she could place small explosive charges into her bra to explosively disseminate the Sarin, ala shoe bomber.

Since implants can hold more than 500ml each, and there'd be two of them, that could be at least a liter of Sarin dispensed inside of a 747. What do you think the chances are of the passengers surviving that? I'd say zero.

If the plane is a trans-oceanic, then it would crash into the ocean with no chance of recovery, and no-one knowing how it happened. Since they wouldn't know how it happened, there'd be no precautions taken against it, meaning it could be repeated again and again.

How many times would it take for trans-oceanic flights to crash into the ocean, with all hands lost, before people start thinking twice (or thrice) before taking such a flight? And might not OBL profit by investing in shipping line stock? ;)

If they found out women martyrs with Sarin booby implants were the cause of the planes crashing, what would airport security do in response?

"Sorry ma'am, but I have to check your boobs for implants, terrorists and all that, you understand." :D

[xyz]

Just to clear up the earlier confusion about bullet knives, the point of a bullet knife is to make it possible to carry a knife in a standard ammunition bandolier without the need for a seperate holster. I have seen some very cool looking bullet knives that have the same look/dimensions as 3.5" 12ga shells.

The other point to bullet knives is that they look cool:) , they were not designed as concealable weapons though.

[James]

Angelo: The greast thing about modern times is that almost anything a criminal or terrorist could want is out there somewhere. The big trick would be finding and assembiling the peices like a jigsaw puzzle. There are ceramic knives out there, it's just a matter of acquiring one.
I thought of posting a related Idea I had in another topic. I think I'll let it sit a while.

[Flake2m]

A terrorist could take a walking stick on a plane becdause he has a "bad leg". once on board the walking stick becomes a weapon tosieze control of the plane. Because the terrorist has already been trained in martial arts, this would improve his chances of being successful. The only thing worse then an angry arab with a stick on a plane, is an angry arab with a stick on a plane that has a black belt in karate!
He/she/it could also bring a modified laptop on the plane. The laptop has had the HDD removed and replaced with explosives or a sarin canister that can be set off via the bios. The laptop would be able to bypass airport security because they only ask you to turn on the laptop to see if it goes POSTs (beeps).

[Bigfoot]

TSA is now using backscatter x-ray machines. Instead of a sillouette (x-ray shadow), the machine shows a 3-D image, using reflected and transferred x-rays. INS office security uses them as well. Popular Mechanics ran article on these some years ago, testing for Border Patrol use. Could see into a semitrailer. If a fellow wanted to smuggle a weapon aBest bet is to "sterilize' yourself of all metal--gum wrappers, coins, everything. Shave all facial hair. Wear button down shirt, necktie. Plastic knife goes up your sleeve.If nothing on you triggers the detector, and your bags are clean, easy. You get wanded, go through your pockets fast, find the metal shaving before they have the wand on you--they'll hand search you if they can't find the metal. Heads up--if your bags have carried ammo, you'll get unwanted attention, the scanners include nitrate sniffers. A gunsmith I know almost missed his flight as they unrolled his socks and jockeys to find the supposed explosives.

[Chemical_burn]

Hey Flake2m for a modified laptop I would have the Cd rom and floppy drive removed that way you can get in even more explosive. Hell leave in the HDD and you can do everything they want you to do you could even open your OS to prove it works and everything. Also you could use an older laptop the really thick bulky ones then will with sheet explosives you could probably get in an intire Killogram :eek: :D

Ok thats my $.02

[James]

Get an ancient luggable computer. Modify it with a 'disk on chip' or something similar. The chips would run cooler and you would have more space for 'stuff'. No need for floppys, fixed disks, or Compact Discs. You would probably want to add some instructions to make it start slower. :)

[chokingvictim78]

An idea struck me in class today when I slashed a friend with a guitar pick. Why not sharpen one side of a heavy guage pick? Or sharpen both sides of the pointed part you use to hit strings with halfway up? You could use a razor blade or something hot. Completely concealable, metal detectors don't pick it up, and you can even take it out in plain view...you just play guitar a lot and always carry them with you;) .

Update: That didn't work out quite as well as I thought it would. I have a substantial amount of bright red streaks on my left leg, but nothing particularly useful unless you're a masochist or something.

[sauvin]

What about a nasal spray bottle full of some really nasty acid? - or even a DMSO/nicotine hydrochloride compound? Do they look in all the little bottles?

[cougar98332]

Originally posted by angelo

Many of those tools could be improvised, but to make them 'invisible' to metal detectors you need to use ceramics and plastics, both of which are hard to mchine without the proper tools ($$$$)


Yes but it is possible... if you know where to look you can find high quality knives made entirely from plastic/ceramic and at a good price at that... again, its just a matter of knowing where they are.

[Chade]

Before any of you try to hijack anything, consider how long it takes for them to introduce the ideas in patent number US2003163232A1.
I thought it a clever little idea. Basically it's a panic button for pilots. When hit, it locks out the controls, and no-one on board can take over, including the pilots. The plane switches to auto pilot, and is guided into landing over an encrypted radio channel. Also it suggests the invention could disperse knockout gas through the plane, incapacitating everyone on board.

[bloodbob]

Originally posted by Chade
Before any of you try to hijack anything, consider how long it takes for them to introduce the ideas in patent number US2003163232A1.
I thought it a clever little idea. Basically it's a panic button for pilots. When hit, it locks out the controls, and no-one on board can take over, including the pilots. The plane switches to auto pilot, and is guided into landing over an encrypted radio channel. Also it suggests the invention could disperse knockout gas through the plane, incapacitating everyone on board.
Thats gonna work great on the other side of world ( compared to us or wherever the base station for radio signal is )

[knowledgehungry]

Satellites would be used... and we shgould probably try to keep topics on topic.

[Chade]

The pen knife EP mentioned (Rightmost one on the link) is the one I have.
They used to sell them in the UK (I've bought one this year) and they consist of a pen that you twist to retect or extend the nib, but only the top half is a pen. Pull it apart and it reveals a 3" stilleto blade. It'll be picked up by metal detectors, as it's a pen, but it'll just go right through. The key fact is that you can write with it, and is indistinguishable from a real pen, unless you open it. I've forgotten it was what it was and lent it to people accidentally before now. I don't know how bad (or good) airport security is, and I know it varies heavily depending on where you fly to/from but I've traveled on a plane less than a year ago (unarmed of course, I'm not looking for that sort of trouble myself) and wasn't searched at any point getting off or on. I doubt they'd check everyones pens unless you looked particularly dodgy. They sold them at a store called 'home design stores' (uk), but I've not seen them there lately.

I can imagine something like that, the police could even take it off you without knowing it was a weapon. I love the idea of them returning you belongings when you get out of jail, and handing you your knife back. Note all the x-ray photos on that page. Most have a clearly visible blade. If your scabbard or holder is metallic and allows the blade to slide into it snugly, rather than openly, the whole shape should appear innocent. You could even make it invisible to those 3-D backscatter x-rays.

BTW, I apologise for distracting the topic. I presumed cutefix was referring to taking a weapon onto a plane to defend yourself in case of a terrorist attack. No?

If you're talking about making an improvised version of weapons like that in general, the Obesidian knife has potential. Just make one out of glass, like is shown here:
http://www.cavemanchemistry.com/cavebook/chstone3.html
I've seen nylon knives on many websites, and bemoaned the fact you can only seem to get them in the states fairly often.

The knives mentioned had two broad types. Types you never see, and types you never see.The first type is the type made from something that doesn't show up on an x-ray, and a metal detector won't pick up, but if the actually do see it, you're fucked. The second type is one that
They see, in plain sight, but don't 'really' see, like the keyring knives, or pen blades.

I think the second type are far better, and somehow more elegant. I loved the one that had a blade in a motorcycle helmet key ring, you'd never suspect that. Trouble for making these at home is that the case has to look completely like the real thing, and that requires more skill than making a functional weapon. It does have the advantage though, of not being a mass produced one that'd show up on a list like that as something to watch out for.

Also, how useful would some of those 'weapons' be, exactly? The piddling little 1" swiss army types, or the pen with a 3mm scalpel blade are next to useless for the risk you're running. It depends heavily on your situation, what type of concealed weapon you wanted to design. For example, if you wanted to make sure you're left with it during a night in the cells to protect yourself, you'd go for something different than to alleviate rampant paranoia during a flight.

If it were for flying with, as self defence, I'd go for a group of concealed darts, preferable tipped with something nasty like a knockout drug (ignoring for a moment the difficulty of getting that to work.) Ok, the terrorists could still grab a group of people, and on a plane you suffer from the problem of not being able to get over to attack them, so a knife is not all that good. but a pocket full of darts would allow you to get a few good hits in before they could get too close, and you dont have to clamber over seats and passengers to attack. As for how to actually conceal such a weapon...

I'd have it dissassembled, so the points (coated with something, just enough to disorient them is what I'd go for, but who cares if it's more toxic?) would be either proper darts points or inflation needles sharpened with a file. The needles already come with a screw thread, the darts would have to be soldered to one. You'd then drill holes of the same diameter in a block of metal, and slide them in. this would leave them invisible on an x-ray. I'm sure there's a few ways to conceal a small block of metal. Perhaps embed it in the base of a metal lighter?

As my absolute first thought for the dart body, I'd use pen bodies with the pen tip screwed in, so you can unscrew the pen tip and screw in the point. Then I'd have flights which slipped around the outside of the pen snugly enough to hold in place when thrown. Perhaps you could fold the flights into something like a bookmark? Nip to the toilet as soon as you can afer take off to assemble the darts in your pocket ready, then again to dissassemble them when you land. Very unwieldy way of doing it, and I'm sure that method can be improved (a lot), but you get the idea. Big problems would be making sure your customised pens look enough like mass produced pens. Same for the lighter. Any signs that it's been put together in a workshop would arouse suspicion. Same for any concealed weapon. Visible gluing, ground metal, uneven edges, caps not quite fitting, etc. Very difficult to do. The first type is easier, but also easier to spot. Basically, all they have to do is search you, and they'll spot it. In an ideal world, I'd want a ceramic gun like in Die hard II, but you'd have to be bloody careful about using it in a plane.

But at the end of the day, if you're highjacked, just rush the fuckers, and hope everyone else does the same. They'll try to spray the cabin with blood from a couple of 'sacrificial' hostages, and indeed, have a host of tricks to scare the hell out of everyone, to keep them sitting down and cowed. Your best chance of getting support for an attack is when it all kicks off, as after that, they're in control. Remember, the passengers outnumber them. If you all attack at once, it doesn't matter if they have things like ceramic knives. They're going down.

[YayItGoBoom!]

Its kind of a silly idea, but I figure someone might be able to make something useful with it. Not ot brag, but I am quite good at Bo Staf (ancient martial art of beating people wich sticks :p ), and I happend to come across my cousin's Jedi Lightsaber toy, the kind that flip out when you swing. You could faily easily create a similar setup out of a thich retractable antenna possibly, throw in some other HAM radio bits and pieces in case you get questioned.

Course its much more practical to whip out a small sharp object, but beating people with sticks is just plain fun (I can't stop laughing at that angry arab with a stick post).

While we are on Oriental weapons, what about num chucks? Kind of obvious (make that very obvious) if you are found with them, but if you can conceal them well enough, it wouldn't get picked up by the metal dectetor (if you have the kind without metal chain, the rope kind). Those things can get going fast, a quick swipe to the temple and they're out cold.

Heres another pretty simple yet effective idea. Fill a water bottle with MEKP, and then figure out how to get a very small detonator in. I haven't made the stuff and I've heard it gives off quite a smell, but if you happen to have one of those VacuuSealers (the infomercial thingers) then it would seal quite nicely.

[Chade]

My old Aikido teacher showed us how to sew a nunchuck arrangement into a backpack. The bars of the nunchucks fit down slender pockets just the right size, on either side of the bag, so they lie vertically against either side of your back when the backpack is worn. The bars are connected by a flexible wire that runs between them at the top, underneath a flap of material, so if inspected, the nunchucks appear to be part of the support of the bag. By reaching under the flap and pulling on the wire, the nunchucks are easily to hand.
I never tried this, as nunchucks are one of those weapons that would injure an unskilled user more than an assailant, and I'm definately an unskilled user.

As a brief segue (which I hope you will forgive) this brings to mind a couple of other pearls of wisdom from that same teacher. When he had someone in a rather effective handlock, he demonstrated how you could easily grab their pinky finger and snap it to the side, dislocating it. In his own words 'This will heal before the case comes to trial'.
He also told me an old tale of an aikido master who was challenged by a soldier armed with a sword. He was waiting on the beach as the Aikido master returned from his fishing trip, obviously unarmed. As the Aikido master got out of his boat, he threw sand in the soldiers face, then stabbed him in the throat with an oar.
Moral: It's not what you've got, it's how well you use it.

[YayItGoBoom!]

You bring up a very good point Chade. What is the point of weapons if you can kill someone with your bare hands? Or just any kind of object that happens to be lying around. BTW that numchuck idea is very creative, and probably very effectice too. But I don't plan on testing how well it works by trying to board a plane with numchucks :rolleyes: .

Hypothetically, though, if you had a little creativity you would never need to bring any items on board. On a given airplane you could find: Soda cans (heavy), or the entire serving cart for that matter, pens and pencils (sharp objects), those crappy AT&T phones, serving trays, shoes (with or without explosives :p ), various bags (strangle people), or just plain get ripped and beat people up. You only start running into problems if the whole flight of passengers charges you. In that case though I don't think a box cutter or pen knife is going to help.

[xyz]

What about bringing on board a strong plastic (polycarbonate?) rod of roughly the same diameter of a pencil, a pencil sharpener, and a roll of duct tape.

Go into the toilet, sharpen the plastic with the sharpener, wrap the duct tape round the other end until you have an easily gripped handle (the normal plasic rod would be too skinny to get a good grip on), and you now have an effective stabbing weapon.

[sauvin]

Most plastics are not hard to machine. For prototyping purposes, I'll usually use polycarbonate, nylon, delrin, acrylic and abs for the purpose of simple proof of principle in some new concept.

Some years ago, I bought a "CIA letter opener" which was made, I'm guessing, of some blend of polycarbonate and nylon. This blend may be difficult to procure from standard plastics supply houses, but glass-filled delrin is usually immediately in stock, not terribly expensive and you can whittle it with a knife to produce something that resembles this CIA letter opener for most practical intents and purposes. Something similar could be done with polycarbonate but it's tougher to whittle by hand (but probably compensates by holding a much sterner edge much longer).

[ThIoDeN]

Originally posted by angelo
A pen knife would come in handy. But the whole idea of the article is to let the dicks in security know whats out there.

I like the idea of a knife in a bullet. What's the point?

Many of those tools could be improvised, but to make them 'invisible' to metal detectors you need to use ceramics and plastics, both of which are hard to mchine without the proper tools ($$$$)

okay, a knife is handy, but if the pen is inspected and i've seen it happen, you're toast.
What most people don't, realise is that an ordinary pen, is just as effecitve a weapon as any knife. Just this morning, we have practised the use of pens as weapons in my Hapkido class, and i can say that they realy hurt and DISABLE any atacker, without causing any fatal wounds (wich can get you thrown in jail ). The idea of using the pen is knowing where on the body the 'presure points' are located. Normaly you try to hit these with a fist, hand, foot, ... but when you hit them with a pen (use metal pens like Parker and such ) the surface that connects to the body is smal, 2 to 3 mm² and the complete foce om the punch is directed to these 3mm². I've personaly felt the pain a mild punch to the plexus gives you, i did not stand up for about 3 minutes !
I always cary my stainless steel pen wherever I go!

[Jacks Complete]

xyz,

your idea about sculpting a rod of plastic into a knife is a good one, aside from the obvious problem of how exactly you carve it when you don't have a knife? Hell, you don't even have a nailfile!

The only thing I can think of is if you get a bit of glass-paper and use that...

[Edit: Sorry, you said a pencil sharpener and a rod. My bad. I was thinking "Knife" not "Shank". Sorry.]

[Trom]

I was just searching for lockpicks, and came across a knife that would be easy to conceal...

i found this at terroristsupply.com and it is called "CIA Letter Opener"

It's basicly a combat knife made completely out of non metallic materials.

FOR $4,95 IT'S AN AWESOME WEAPON!

I bought one, and it was balanced enough to throw.

Also, when i was a bit stoned, I used a hammer to hit it through pieces of wood... I went straight through an 2 inch thick oak tree. IT DIDN'T BREAK...

Imagine putting one of these in a leg holster on the inside of your upper leg.... They won't even notice it, because the metal detactor won't go of

A nice added bonus is that you can actually use it to open letters aswell ;)


And here is the link, check it out.
http://www.terroristsupply.com/store/police/items/dept1/02.shtml

[knowledgehungry]

Mechanical pencils, the cheap ass plastic type, are IMHO an excellent weapon, they will puncture flesh. Stomach, neck and eyes are all extremely vulnerable to this sort of attack.

[PHAID]

I dont know if i would trust their claim that it cant be detected.
From some of my travels ive had a great deal of hastle with the metal detectors.

Just for the metal detector itself ive had the eyelets form a shoe set it off along with the following items.
pen, foil from a pack of cigarettes, belt buckle, earing, smal metal sliver stuck in wallet.

They also have been pushing the body scanner for use in airports and it will show anything on your body.

Stick with common items such as the pen or mechanical pencil.

Years ago i remember a place that sold a spike that looked like a drafting pencil and when you hit a button it shot out and locked like a switchblade.

Ill search and post a link if its still made by anyone.

[Trom]

I decided to test the detectability of the "CIA letteropener"...

With a handheld metal detector, it didn't give a single beep.

So I got a little daring, or really really foolish, and went to the local airport...

I asked the security officers there if I could look for my sister, who was probably at the tax free shops, and who had registered with a group name i did not know.

They let me go to the area behind the security gates...

Upon passing the gates, they did not react to the letteropener...

IMHO $4,95 well spent :D

[Jacks Complete]

PHAID,

the CIA letter opener is made from glass fibre re-inforced nylon, or some such, and as Trom tested (rather foolishly, imho) it will not set off a metal detector, since it utterly non-metallic.

Obviously, if you set off the detector with something else, like a key, and you get patted down, you are in deep shit.

Anyway, how is that thing "Improvised"?

[PHAID]

I knew it was supposed to be made of glass fiber , I was just wondering if they happend to put enough of a metalic substance in with the mix to catch them at the metal detectors.

Thanks for the answer though.

[THAT Dude]

Cold Steel makes two "plastic" (Zytel)knives.
The Delta Dart($3.99 or $6.99with sheath) and the CAT Tanto($6.75).
That is a cheap(well made) knife! :D
On the DVD they stab them through a 1/2" thick piece of leather(by hand!)
and many other things.

[tdog49]

I was just about to mention the Cold Steel option!
However I do have another option that I use regularly.
1. hard to deloy but....using plexiglas of about 1/4" thickness shape it to match a credit card (height and width) then sharpen and serrate one side.
carry in wallet or elsewhere in pocket. with enough force it will cut leather.

2. easier to deploy....your standard 5" unbreakable pocket comb, will not cut leather but will cut human skin. applied in a slashing motion across the throat this will cut....be careful trying this we have had a few accidents in class.

ciao for now,
Tdog

Singing your posts is forbidden. Correct yourself in the future or die. NBK

[THAT Dude]

EP a pen knife is not a very good concealed weapon IMO,because most are not well made. Mine is the same as the one in that picture and it does not
work well because of the design, the throat (the peace that attaches the blade to the handle) should be square or some other non round shape. Because you have to twist the pin to extend the writing tip and the round throat that is standard just rotates the blade is it's housing when you try to
extend the tip. So you have to pull out the blade and twist it to extend the tip for writing.
Improvements in the blade housing could solve this and the x-ray problem.

NBK you could put implants in fat people then you have more than
enough room those Sarin bombs.

[Trigger Mike]

What would be the best material to use to improvise a CIA letter opener?I could always just buy one but I feel that would take away the fun of constructing a weapon.I know that any old plastic will not work, so I ask, where is the balance between readily availlable materials(I live in the UK)that are strong enough not to break easily and are not so strong that they are impossible to carve or whittle down?Any members in the UK know where I can get the materials?

[tdog49]

Trigger

I have made them out of aluminum and also plexiglass. I use either a hand grinder or file or belt sander to shape and sharpen. You could also use pyrex, but that wouldnt flex at all and might be harder to conceal. However you would be able to get a wicked edge.....

[raptor1956]

you could also make them out of fibreglass. If you made yourself a mold, you could even use the resin on it's own, or experiment with adding plaster or similar substances to weight them for throwing.

[Trigger Mike]

Would I be right in thinking that plexiglass and perspex are both the same material just under different names? I apologise in advance if that's a stupid question.

[Anthony]

Yes, I believe they are the same thing.

Surely a blade made solely from resin would be prone to snapping? The purpose of the fibre is to give the material strength in this respect.

[raptor1956]

yes it would be prone to snapping, but under some circumstances, that could be desirable, which is why some prison perspex blades have grooves files across them. I'll leave the "why" to your imagination.

[Trigger Mike]

Most of the weapons talked about in this thread have been bladed but, wouldn't a length of fiber wire be a lot easier to conceal that a knife or other type of weapon?You could wear it underneath your belt which would hide it from view and give you easy access.Even coiled around your wrist to look like some kind of bracelet.
The main drawback of this type of weapon, going back to the hijacking scenario, is that it really requires an outright act of violence to establish any type of control and to re-enforce the fact that you mean business.I mean you can point a knife at someone and they will more that likely be scared but I don't think that waving a length of fibre wire in their face would have the same effect.
I heard somewhere that surgical tubing is very good for strangulation but Im not sure if that is true or not.

[Anthony]

Or NBK's idea of industrial sized cable ties. Pop it over someone's head, pull it tight and they're as good as dead. Saves you the inconvience of having to restrain the victim for several minutes.

[NightStalker]

According to NBK, it's not an idea, but a techinque he's actually used.

I saw a quote from a post of his on a russian board, though I can't find it now, where he said he used it on ducks and dogs. He even posted a picture of the heads of one of his "victims" years ago. :eek:

Fine wire sounds like 'shigawire' from DUNE.

I had an idea for modifying the Delta darts you can buy from Cold Steel.

You cut off the triangular blade portion from one of the darts, and drill a hole almost completely down the center, with a smaller hole drilled through each of the 3 faces of the blade, connecting with the central core hole at the mid-point where it terminates in the blade, and a tiny hole drilled in the very end where the central hole terminates, which allows the trapped air to vent out when you insert the handle piston.

There is also an interior groove cut into the handle end of the central hole of the blade, into which goes an O-ring.

Next, a similar sized hole as the central blade hole is drilled into the handle, again running most of the length, into which goes a plastic rod of strong plastic like delrin.

The rod is of such length as to go all the way into the blade hole and of a smaller diameter for the middle part, with the ends both being full sized. There is a small O-ring notch cut into the end of the rod which goes deepest into the blade hole onto which an O-ring is applied.

Next, insert the handle rod completely into the blade hole, fill the central portion with a powerful poison through one of the holes, having sealed the other two with silicone plugs, and finally seal the last hole.

Now, the spike portion (blade), having had some sawback notches cut into the edges, will remain in the flesh of the victim and, when the handle is pulled out, the central piston will act as a syringe, ejecting the poison out through the holes in the spike.

I think a pull-piston is much more effective than trying to make it as a push-pistion, as with a pull-piston, the poison is only ejected AFTER the blade is fully buried in the target, rather than being squirting out as it's stabbed through clothes and skin on its way to the internals.

PS:

While searching for the NBK quotation, I ran across this short story that uses a zip-tie garrote, and thought it cool enough to include here, highlighting the relevant portion. Found it at http://www.whisperingalley.com/yabbse/index.php?action=recent



Started by Psiberzerker

He follows me through the night, no doubt thinking I want him. For once, he's right, just has no idea what for.

Rapists are pretty predictable. Dangle a pretty little body in their face, and they'll follow you anywhere. I happen to have one handy, so he takes the bait. A smarter man would wonder what brought me back here, at such risk.

In this case, it's a service entrance for dumpsters, and loading docks behind a closed warehouse store. No girl in her right mind would come back here with a strange man following her. The suburban equivalent to a dark alley, I had no business back here except for something I shouldn't be doing.

I lead him to a tight place behind a cement stoop, and pause to let him catch up by lighting a cigarrette. Possibly my last, I cough. Even these young lungs are starting to burn out.

He grins at his fortune, and moves to cut me off. His teeth shine unnaturally white in his backlit face as I finaly get a good look at what I have here. Neither attractive, nor ugly, he's a bit large. True, most of it is fat, but he looks strong too. His round cheeks make him look fatter, but I can tell it's mostly from breeding. For his size, he looks rather harmless.

Probably what made him so good at this, actually. Without him cornering me like this, the lust obvious in his eyes, noone would think it of him. I did, but I've gotten good at reading people.

The dim light glints off his eye, reflection from the blade that clicks out in his hand. "Behave," he warns me gently, "And I won't have to cut you."

"Please!" I let tears well up in these big brown eyes, and bring my hands up defensively. His blade dips slightly as he relaxes a little. A twist of my waist, and it's knocked aside. I keep spinning out, to get behind him, but he's to big for me to throw.

I don't even try, just jerk the pipe "T" out from behind my belt, and shake the loop out. He tries to turn, but I put a fist into the nerve plexis under his arm, and he has to jerk back with a grunt.

An instep to the back of the knee, and he stumbles to the asphalt. He's too stunned to stop me as I throw the loop over, and give a good jerk. The cable tie buzzes as the little nylon rachet cinches around his throat.

Now, I have to save him from himself. Predictably, he tries to cut free with the knife, but I manage to kick it away first. It wouldn't do him any good, it's too tight to get the blade under, and too tough to cut from the outside. All that'd accomplish is to damage his throat. I can't have that.

Blood backs up above it, standing out in facial veins, and darkening his eyes. His tongue blackens as he opens his mouth in a useless gasp. I keep my distance, he could still be dangerous, or start thrashing. With about twice my body's mass, that could be disasterous.

He can't even get to his feet, starts crawling away, trying to escape. I follow patiently, wait for him to collapse. Man, what a pain to roll over.

Still blood bloated, I can see his pulse in the vein on his forhead. Good, I won't have to restart the heart. Holding my clippers over the clasp, I make sure it'll make a clean cut.

Leaning in, I pressed our lips together. His taste of sweat, fear, and desperation. They feel unnaturally warm, and firm, bloated as they are with blood. I have to pull his jaw open with my free hand, then reach up to hold his nose before cutting the zip-garrote.

His last breath rushes out, and I take it willingly. I can almost taste the pain, and terror of his death. The shock of being strangled by such a little girl. I press on his chest to get it all, massage the diaphram under the ribs untill I have my lungs full.

My vision contracts, a spinctering shadow like the end of a cartoon. Distant traffic sounds recede further, and I start to loose feeling. The little girl body relaxes around me, and I gasp in reflexively. Eyes wide open, I push the corpse off of me.

The ligature burns around my neck, it always does, but it'll heal. I take the scarf of her long dead body to cover it, reveal the old strngling marks on her neck. They'd faded over the months I'd had her, but they never go completely away.

She'd been easier, the little ones usually where. I'd enjoyed her, wore her out. It was like another shot ate teen age, a vacation I'd taken countless times through the centuries. I'd miss her, the youthfull energy, the pretty face that'd make guys do anything, and , of course the sex.

I needed muscle now, too bad I can't get a girl in this size. It'd be nice to have the strength, along with the multiple orgasms. Oh well, you can't have everything. Well, I can, just not all at once.

Familiarity makes striping her pockets easy. First thing, I pluck out my cigarettes, and lighter. The cool harsh smoke is rough on these new lungs, but they'll get used to it. It dangles from my lips as I clean out the rest of it.

She's still breathing, but I can fix that. I need to cover the old marks any way, so I fit my big hands over them, and squeeze. I take my time, cutting off the air flow, but letting the blood into the brain. It'd bruise better that way any way. Finally, she shudders, and dies for the last time.

Waste not, want not. I kiss her one last time, and press her chest to force out the last of her breath. Sometimes, a little gets left behind. The dregs of me in her taste strange, alien like nothing else I've encountered.

[ninja42]

Great story on the ZIP tie garotte!

I used to make body concealable knives out of printed circuit board (without the copper layer of course). It consists of layers of glass fiber covered in epoxy resin. Several boards bonded together with epoxy glue and fashioned into a knife will give a razorsharp weapon which can be concealed anywhere.
If small channels are formed in the middle layers and filled with poison in conjunction with a preformed break point the effect is dramatically enhanced.

ninja.

[Hobbit Porn]

http://www.wftv.com/news/3786870/detail.html

Thought this news item might give a few of you some ideas for one you could make yourself

[Isotoxin]

The story is good but a strong person could get the tie off I think. They would have to get a finger under the tie however. With a knife I would slip it under the tie on the back of my neck so if I cut myself I would not bleed out and saw it back and forth till it came off.

[Anthony]

Indeed, if you had a knife you could remove the tie even if done up very tightly. Even if it means digging the point of the knife into flesh to get it under the tie. Anything less than a rapidly fatal wound (which would take some real doing) isn't going to seem important when your face is going purple...

I was reminded of people giving themselves emergency tracheotomy when chocking from a windpipe blockage as an example of the survival instinct. I guess it would also work in this situation though!

Obviously, it would be relatively easy to stop someone saving themselves if the attacker sticks around, even if they are a comparitive lightweight.

People faced with death can summon hugh physical strengths, but a half-ich wide cable tie is going to have a tensile strength of at least 100kg. I did test some 1/4" (maybe smaller) ones once, and IIRC they broke at about 50kg. It's not like a victim would have any leverage either.

Everyone must know those plastic packing straps that are heat sealed together? I think they have a diamond pattern on them. They've also been used to break into cars. Well, they don't look very strong, but even putting my foot into one and pulling with both hands, I couldn't break the fucker. I'm pretty sure that the same strap tested at <100kg tensile strength.

[doggie]

here's a nifty little gadget to keep you thinking:
Cellphone gun

5 shots .22 cal, seems like something that might be on the table in a topic like this.

http://cellular.co.za/phones/gunphone/gun-phone.jpg

http://www.mobidirect.com/cellgun.mpg

[Lurking_Shadows]

A little something I made for myself a wile ago but then gave away.
The pics a bit cut off but you get the idea.

I sharpened it with a bastard file and made it from an old meat cleaver, designed as a slashing weapon it digs into what you’re slashing at with the serrated bottom of the knife and is razor sharp. (Tested it on an old T-shit and some foam)
The pics about the exact size of the weapon.

http://www.geocities.com/taipan526/Knife.html

[Psychlonic]

I've always thought that a belt with a decently heavy metal buckle would make a good weapon. The belt strap itself could be used to entangle an opponent's weapon or strangling techniques.
When held from the other end however, the buckle turns the belt into a flail with more than the force necessary to break bones.
What's more, belts aren't exactly frowned upon unless the have one of those daggers in the buckle.

[mixojoe]

well you could always sharpen the edge of a credit card and make a small finger/thumb notch i guess. Have also used small party poppers attached to the wrist and hidden under clothing. These have been filled with an irritant and aimed at foes eyes. Det cord is hidden under the jacket lol

[Jacks Complete]

Lurking_Shadows, that looks a bit more like a throwing axe! Nice design, anyway.

Psychlonic, most belts that carry decent weight buckles are far too thick to strangle anyone with. However, they are quite effective for swinging, and as long as your trousers stay up, you should be fine. The obvious counter is to get your arm in before the buckle, so that it wraps around, taking the power out of the stroke, and allowing you to pull it away from your opponents grip. Either that our stay a bit out of reach so that you can counter after they swing and miss.

Hobbit_Porn, that page is gone - http://blogs.musicscene.org/gonzo/archive/2004/10/07/323.aspx has it though, as does http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6190178/ .

[akinrog]

If the aim is concealability and improvisability, then prison style tools are better, I think.
A toothbrush whose handle is sharpened, a good (robust and quite thin) pen/pencil, a prison style improvised razor blade (which consists of sticking of shaving blade inserted at the back of a pencil) (which is dangerous to carry in the pocket, though), are very handy for attacking. Regards.

[mixojoe]

the old soap in a sock trick

[nbk2000]

People in prison make weaons from razors and toothbrushes simply because they're unable to make anything better.

YOU have no excuses, being on the street.

[Muffscer's Digits]

A small shard of glass could be used, just cover up one side with some masking tape.

i imagin if you just slit one persons throat with it, you would have most of the people under control solely through fear.

Although it is quite crude, its cheep, small, and non-metallic.

[tdog49]

the problem w/glass is that it is (usually) quite fragile. having it break in your pocket or in the midst of an altercation is just unacceptable. a tough durable polymer is a much better option. So is pyrex...

[Lurking_Shadows]

Just an idea but what about an eppy [sp?] pen?

Some people with sever allergies or that are diabetic carry a few with them.
If someone were to modify them to carry some other substance I'm sure that it would still get a pass through airport security.

[Tribal]

What about cyanide poisoned earrings, pearcings and so on? Could work, if trying to steal a plane... Or maybe a sharpened belt spike?

[guerrero]

here's a nifty little gadget to keep you thinking:
Cellphone gun

5 shots .22 cal, seems like something that might be on the table in a topic like this.

http://cellular.co.za/phones/gunphone/gun-phone.jpg

http://www.mobidirect.com/cellgun.mpg

doggie,
do you know where I can find plans or blueprints of this "cellgun"?

[guerrero]

here's a nifty little gadget to keep you thinking:
Cellphone gun

5 shots .22 cal, seems like something that might be on the table in a topic like this.

http://cellular.co.za/phones/gunphone/gun-phone.jpg

http://www.mobidirect.com/cellgun.mpg

doggie,
do you know where I can find plans or blueprints of this "cellgun"?

[guerrero]

here's a nifty little gadget to keep you thinking:
Cellphone gun

5 shots .22 cal, seems like something that might be on the table in a topic like this.

http://cellular.co.za/phones/gunphone/gun-phone.jpg

http://www.mobidirect.com/cellgun.mpg

doggie,
do you know where I can find plans or blueprints of this "cellgun"?

[shadow2501]

guerrero this cell gun was made in small quantities, blueprints should be extremely hard to find.Tribal, am i understanding correctly?you're planning putting poisoned earrings and piercing on your own body?if you wanna die just swallow the poison it will be quicker.Here's a not-so-concealed but original weapon that differs in size from the belt buckle push dagger, concept is interesting http://www.artesaniaalcala.com/pag3_eng.htm

[shadow2501]

guerrero this cell gun was made in small quantities, blueprints should be extremely hard to find.Tribal, am i understanding correctly?you're planning putting poisoned earrings and piercing on your own body?if you wanna die just swallow the poison it will be quicker.Here's a not-so-concealed but original weapon that differs in size from the belt buckle push dagger, concept is interesting http://www.artesaniaalcala.com/pag3_eng.htm

[shadow2501]

guerrero this cell gun was made in small quantities, blueprints should be extremely hard to find.Tribal, am i understanding correctly?you're planning putting poisoned earrings and piercing on your own body?if you wanna die just swallow the poison it will be quicker.Here's a not-so-concealed but original weapon that differs in size from the belt buckle push dagger, concept is interesting http://www.artesaniaalcala.com/pag3_eng.htm

[Jacks Complete]

If you slit the throat of the first person on a plane, you are going to get your ass kicked by the twenty guys who decide to take you down.

The stupidity of the entire victim disarming game of airport security is that now, unless there are two or more guys with guns, no-one is going to hijack a plane with a box cutter again, yet they take nailfiles off women and think they are making things safer.

Give everyone a small, non-lethal(ish) weapon that doesn't wreck the plane, and there wouldn't ever be an issue again.

[Jacks Complete]

If you slit the throat of the first person on a plane, you are going to get your ass kicked by the twenty guys who decide to take you down.

The stupidity of the entire victim disarming game of airport security is that now, unless there are two or more guys with guns, no-one is going to hijack a plane with a box cutter again, yet they take nailfiles off women and think they are making things safer.

Give everyone a small, non-lethal(ish) weapon that doesn't wreck the plane, and there wouldn't ever be an issue again.

[Jacks Complete]

If you slit the throat of the first person on a plane, you are going to get your ass kicked by the twenty guys who decide to take you down.

The stupidity of the entire victim disarming game of airport security is that now, unless there are two or more guys with guns, no-one is going to hijack a plane with a box cutter again, yet they take nailfiles off women and think they are making things safer.

Give everyone a small, non-lethal(ish) weapon that doesn't wreck the plane, and there wouldn't ever be an issue again.

[skatastamoutra]

Once i have seen a guy with a big thump nail polished and hardened.
It could easily slit a throat.
Now thats improvished!

[skatastamoutra]

Once i have seen a guy with a big thump nail polished and hardened.
It could easily slit a throat.
Now thats improvished!

[skatastamoutra]

Once i have seen a guy with a big thump nail polished and hardened.
It could easily slit a throat.
Now thats improvished!

[Tribal]

shadow2501, you misunderstood me, I was thinking of a needle covered With a Latex or a thiny pipe, that would work as a holster, it's a messy work to make this, but that's a weapon, what can kill... others and one more thing, if the hole in ear is healed, the poison can't get in the blood system, am I right?

[Tribal]

shadow2501, you misunderstood me, I was thinking of a needle covered With a Latex or a thiny pipe, that would work as a holster, it's a messy work to make this, but that's a weapon, what can kill... others and one more thing, if the hole in ear is healed, the poison can't get in the blood system, am I right?

[Tribal]

shadow2501, you misunderstood me, I was thinking of a needle covered With a Latex or a thiny pipe, that would work as a holster, it's a messy work to make this, but that's a weapon, what can kill... others and one more thing, if the hole in ear is healed, the poison can't get in the blood system, am I right?

[akinrog]

if the hole in ear is healed, the poison can't get in the blood system, am I right?

Not exactly, some of the toxic compounds has good transdermal activity. Not worth for the risk.

[akinrog]

if the hole in ear is healed, the poison can't get in the blood system, am I right?

Not exactly, some of the toxic compounds has good transdermal activity. Not worth for the risk.

[akinrog]

if the hole in ear is healed, the poison can't get in the blood system, am I right?

Not exactly, some of the toxic compounds has good transdermal activity. Not worth for the risk.

[shadow2501]

i agree with akinrog, it's pure common, when toxic and poisonous substances are used, the further you keep them from your own body the safer you are.Maybe poison hidden in fake ring or little capsule in ear rings?Oh by the way, should be no news at all for anyone but there's another shapes of "undetecable" blades than cold steel tanto and darts,even push dagger and karambit, my favourites:)

[shadow2501]

i agree with akinrog, it's pure common, when toxic and poisonous substances are used, the further you keep them from your own body the safer you are.Maybe poison hidden in fake ring or little capsule in ear rings?Oh by the way, should be no news at all for anyone but there's another shapes of "undetecable" blades than cold steel tanto and darts,even push dagger and karambit, my favourites:)

[shadow2501]

i agree with akinrog, it's pure common, when toxic and poisonous substances are used, the further you keep them from your own body the safer you are.Maybe poison hidden in fake ring or little capsule in ear rings?Oh by the way, should be no news at all for anyone but there's another shapes of "undetecable" blades than cold steel tanto and darts,even push dagger and karambit, my favourites:)

[neo-crossbow]

why not just bang out a zip gun in .22LR ? They are a peice of puss to make and when I use them into my old boxing bag they quiet enough, hold them against it and you barely hear the muzzle blast.
:)

[neo-crossbow]

why not just bang out a zip gun in .22LR ? They are a peice of puss to make and when I use them into my old boxing bag they quiet enough, hold them against it and you barely hear the muzzle blast.
:)

[neo-crossbow]

why not just bang out a zip gun in .22LR ? They are a peice of puss to make and when I use them into my old boxing bag they quiet enough, hold them against it and you barely hear the muzzle blast.
:)

[Jacks Complete]

Because if you read the start of the thread, we aren't talking about a gun in this thread.

If you get frisked or go on a plane, a zip gun will get you arrested, as it will be found, even if you wrap it in tinfoil and shove it up your arse.

Back on topic, a large steel or iron ball bearing is quite effective if thrown hard and suddenly. Or you can put it in a sock, or hold it in your hand to increase the power of you punch. There's no reason to have one, but that's not a reason to arrest you.

[Jacks Complete]

Because if you read the start of the thread, we aren't talking about a gun in this thread.

If you get frisked or go on a plane, a zip gun will get you arrested, as it will be found, even if you wrap it in tinfoil and shove it up your arse.

Back on topic, a large steel or iron ball bearing is quite effective if thrown hard and suddenly. Or you can put it in a sock, or hold it in your hand to increase the power of you punch. There's no reason to have one, but that's not a reason to arrest you.

[Silentnite]

If I recall a story I was told, those "Carbon fiber"-type blades have an assortment of metal fibers embedded as well, due to the security issue. Maybe the older one's don't though.

[Silentnite]

If I recall a story I was told, those "Carbon fiber"-type blades have an assortment of metal fibers embedded as well, due to the security issue. Maybe the older one's don't though.

[Jacks Complete]

I often wonder about rumours like that.

If I were selling a knife that was designed to be invisible, and selling it as such, whilst pissing off law enforcement all over the place, why would I decide to add something to make them detectable? It is a classic lose/lose - your customers don't trust you again, and LEOs still hate you for selling the knife!

Anyhow, as stated above, just make one. Get a rod or piece you like, and go at it with a hacksaw and then sand to your desired finish and shape.

The UK just passed a law banning lettuce knives, following on from the 'success' of the handgun ban... I doubt banning plastic knives wll turn them into weapons of choice, though.

[Jacks Complete]

I often wonder about rumours like that.

If I were selling a knife that was designed to be invisible, and selling it as such, whilst pissing off law enforcement all over the place, why would I decide to add something to make them detectable? It is a classic lose/lose - your customers don't trust you again, and LEOs still hate you for selling the knife!

Anyhow, as stated above, just make one. Get a rod or piece you like, and go at it with a hacksaw and then sand to your desired finish and shape.

The UK just passed a law banning lettuce knives, following on from the 'success' of the handgun ban... I doubt banning plastic knives wll turn them into weapons of choice, though.

[Silentnite]

I sawed a decent chunk back in my highschool days out of a wooden school desk, with a plastic picnic knife. The one with the serated edges. Obviously it could do some damage to a person. Then the lovely tests whereabouts you drive it straight through the core of an apple.

But then, Any item, properly used, can be turned into a deadly weapon.

[Silentnite]

I sawed a decent chunk back in my highschool days out of a wooden school desk, with a plastic picnic knife. The one with the serated edges. Obviously it could do some damage to a person. Then the lovely tests whereabouts you drive it straight through the core of an apple.

But then, Any item, properly used, can be turned into a deadly weapon.

[nbk2000]

The idea of making a spike blade from fiber-reinforced nipolite, and imbedding a pull-fuse igniter between the spike and the handle (which seperate upon withdrawing from a stab), seems fun.

Stab someone, and as you pull back on the (reusable) handle, the pull igniter sets off the nipolite spike embedded in the victim. Either explosive or incendiary will have dramatic effects. :)

And can be totally non-metallic too. :D

Imagine the effect of a couple of ounces of double-base guncotton burning six inches inside of your chest cavity. ;)

[nbk2000]

The idea of making a spike blade from fiber-reinforced nipolite, and imbedding a pull-fuse igniter between the spike and the handle (which seperate upon withdrawing from a stab), seems fun.

Stab someone, and as you pull back on the (reusable) handle, the pull igniter sets off the nipolite spike embedded in the victim. Either explosive or incendiary will have dramatic effects. :)

And can be totally non-metallic too. :D

Imagine the effect of a couple of ounces of double-base guncotton burning six inches inside of your chest cavity. ;)

[senom]

i was re-reading over this thread, and i came up with an idea that i'd never thought up before... and had never been posted.

sunglasses- most have plastic pieces that go over your ears, to make them more comfortable. now if you were to slide those off, and sharpen the points of the (hopefully) metal frames, and slide the plastic back on... you could have a seriously sharp spike a few inches long, that would never be cared about...

another idea that came to me was to sharpen one of the ends of a keyring, but have it lying flat to teh ring, when needed use a key on the ring to bend the point outward, making a potential melee weapon (granted, not very powerful)

one could also take the film out of a film roll, and replace it with any sort of substance/object, if you have a lead bag for your film when it goes through the x-ray it may be only visually scanned by the operator. (wouldn't hurt to glue on a tab of film to make it look real.)

if you were to carry on a cane, i'd reccommend devising some way to have one of the ends pointed (under a rubber foot cap perhaps) to make it also a valid piercing weapon.

you could have a lot of fun with the ~2 foot long metal bars that support an internal frame backpack... providing it was valid for carry-on

[senom]

i was re-reading over this thread, and i came up with an idea that i'd never thought up before... and had never been posted.

sunglasses- most have plastic pieces that go over your ears, to make them more comfortable. now if you were to slide those off, and sharpen the points of the (hopefully) metal frames, and slide the plastic back on... you could have a seriously sharp spike a few inches long, that would never be cared about...

another idea that came to me was to sharpen one of the ends of a keyring, but have it lying flat to teh ring, when needed use a key on the ring to bend the point outward, making a potential melee weapon (granted, not very powerful)

one could also take the film out of a film roll, and replace it with any sort of substance/object, if you have a lead bag for your film when it goes through the x-ray it may be only visually scanned by the operator. (wouldn't hurt to glue on a tab of film to make it look real.)

if you were to carry on a cane, i'd reccommend devising some way to have one of the ends pointed (under a rubber foot cap perhaps) to make it also a valid piercing weapon.

you could have a lot of fun with the ~2 foot long metal bars that support an internal frame backpack... providing it was valid for carry-on

[neo-crossbow]

http://datacenter.ap.org/wdc/fbiweapons.pdf

what about the fbi data base of concealed edged weapons, free online download?

[neo-crossbow]

http://datacenter.ap.org/wdc/fbiweapons.pdf

what about the fbi data base of concealed edged weapons, free online download?

[Gollum]

Mega old thread but just wanted to mention a lot of the weapons listed in this thread are not very good. Not meant as an insult or anything, but sharpened guitar picks or credit cards? Sorry but no, that's not going to do anything. Improvised weapons need to be practical and available almost anywhere. You need to be able to have one of these at any moment, without notice. It does not help you if your uber kevlar carbon fiber knifegun is stowed in your bunk at home in Texas and you're out in the middle of Kandahar.

Improvized weapons? Well depends what you need it for. If you need a weapon for killing somebody, i.e. you intend to strike first, then something long, hard and a very sharp tip is best. For example an expensive metal fountain pen could be used as a base design, except the fountain tip has been softened (tempered) so it won't snap, or better yet the entire internals of the pen have been replaced with a single long, retractable carbon steel blade. That wouldn't get past an x ray machine though. Don't start with the 'lead shielding' stuff. An x ray tech would have you arrested the minute they saw lead shielding, and they can definately spot it.

It's been mentioned here before, but coffee mugs and glasses also make good edged weapons on an airliner. No security guard will ever stop you for a coffee mug, but if you smash it in flight you've got yourself a dandy edged weapon plus corners. It won't take much abuse but if you know your stuff it'll get the job done.

Some types of keys make decent weapons in a pinch, generally the more recently they were cut, the better. If the edges of the key are still somewhat sharp you can cause some shallow cuts on a person, but they are also useful for putting small holes in places like the eyes or tearing up flesh like the nose/ears, etc. But you need to be pretty desperate to resort to keys.

When travelling in a car, car lighters are probably the best weapon. Stick one of those in 'the chosen one's' face and then handle the situation from there. Cigarretes in the eyes work ok, so does smoke from cigars or cigarrettes in the eyes, but only very briefly and at close range. Better to use the burning tip.

If wearing a hoodie, backpack, or track pants, the string can be removed from the article of clothing and be used as a garote. Better is soaking the string in water or urine if you have no water available, this will make the string stronger, and better suited to strangling (it'll dig deeper into flesh, more friction), though it will stretch somewhat before you get max tension.

If confronted on a street, use garbage cans as a defensive mechanism. No joke, remember people used to use chairs to fend off huge hungry animals, a garbage can is enough to temporarily fend off someone attacking you.

A really good one that almost anyone can do at any time is the old 'rock in a sock'. Simple as it sounds, stick a big rock in one of your socks and you have a crude morning star kind of thing going on. Works best if wet or urinated on, again, the material has more friction when wet and will do more damage. Also even if it doesn't seriously hurt the person it'll leave a bigass imprint of your sock on their skin which will make them look pretty stupid, until you finish them off anyway.

Those are just some basic ideas. The rock in the sock one is probably the best and most practical out of any of them. Even if you can't find a rock you can always find something, like a cell phone, or just other heavy shit to put in it. Terrorist took over your flight? Fuckin whack his rag head skull from behind with a cell phone in a sock, then cut his ugly throat for being such an asshole.

Those are some pretty simple and available weapons. There's lots more out there just use your imagination. Consider this though, don't even think of using something as a weapon that is already easily breakable in normal use. A plastic serrated knife? The kind in caffeterias? Gimme a break. That won't do shit to anyone, it can't even go through clothing.

If you have access to more advanced resources, then you start getting into really good stuff. For example if you're expecting some kind of raid on your property, you could create landmines from 12 gauge shotty shells and nails and put them along expected travel routes. The VC did something like this in NAM. If you have greater explosive resources available you can make very large landmines or even claymore type mines based on the same principle.

Other VC tricks like putting grenades attached to strings inside soup cans is another good one. Trip the wire, pull the grenade out, kaboom. But most people don't have grenades so..

Another one from Tom Clancy land, but it actually works; shotgun shell surrounded by extremely thick cardboard tubing, with a metal base plate and 1 time use firing assembly. The cardboard tube is only a little longer than the shell itself. Walk up to your target, stick the end in his chest, whack the bottom of the device with something hard (your hand even, if you do it hard enough) and there you have it. Of course you may break your arm from the huge amount of recoil that generates, but it's improvised!

All kinds of stuff out there! Just think hard.

And always remember the best weapons you have are your own brain and your own hands. If you learn some kind of Japanese martial art you'll probably be able to handle any clowns that are trying to bother you without even using weapons. My personal recommendation is either Japanese jujutsu (NOT Brazilian), or judo in conjunction with oyama style (kyokushin) karate (throwing and striking balance eachother out)

[Ropik]

Or Kali, where you can learn using knives and sticks as well.
I think that quick riffle through Marc MacYoung's book about improvised weapons is all you need to begin to see your surrounding like an armory...
I wouldn't dismiss things like sharpened guitar picks or credit cards. Of course, you aren't gonna to lop somebody's arm off with it, but it can give you an upper hand by means of surprise. Credit card with spyder edge-type grind is nasty as hell, if somebody is close enough to use it on your face, neck, et cetera. I know it myself. It won't put you out of fight, but it buys the opponent enough time to ram a haymaker into your temple.

[Jacks Complete]

Gollum, cheers for the recap of the thread!

Everything you said has been said on this thread already. Yes, we all know that using a guitar pick isn't the same as a slamfire cardboard shotgun, but nor are the penalties for having one.

I'm going to have to advise a friend who took a beating the other day, lost some teeth. He wants to go with a home-made tazer to fend off three+-on-one attacks. I advised him to use his "natural weapons" - his crash helmet is a fight ending headbutt or bludgeon. A razor knife is a big risk by comparision, given the UK "Knife amnesty" shit that is going on right now. I also suggested a thin steel bar or DOM tube, as it looks technical, and yet will break/chip bone without trouble if swung hard.

[underMan]

I can think of a couple ways to design a chain necklace to be some fatal sized darts. Not that difficult to imagine a couple efficient ways to do that.

[teshilo]

What is this termine "conceable"?Weapon non-detected trough usual means of detection.Few examples
Three simple door keys with sharpen ends a connected with angle 120 create shuken (throwing star)
Common family ring with welded blade create of "tire cutter" weapon used by OSS in WW2.
Common write pen may be created on lathe from steel and sharped as spike..
James Bond gadget: hand clock with Jigly saw or piano wire inside...
Fake hand clock with molded plumbum inside (mini black -Jack )
Continue and continue..

[mrtnira]

I think defining "concealable", as Teshilo points out, is the place to begin. Environment, motive, and ability play significantly in the usefulness of a tool.

If a tool box is natural to a construction site, then those tools can be expedient weapons and would be hidden until they were turned from tools to weapons by action. That same tool box might be unnatural in a stock broker's briefcase, and would draw suspicion. So, we first have to look at the operational environment.

Motive, or cause, is the second thing to think of when choosing a concealable weapon, because how it applied will affect choice. Not all weapons are best used in all places. Is a weapon to intimidate, or to injure, or to outright kill? Some can do all three, but a truly "concealable" weapon might be limited.

Physical and psychological ability is another thing to consider. If I am slow of reaction, limited in stamina, or not psychologically agressive, maybe no weapon is sufficient.

My favorite concealable weapons are defensive ones available to most people: the belt, a ball point pen, a jacket, the edge of a hard copy book, among others.

One person wrote earlier, "a coffee mug". This also is true and shows what range expedient weapons actually come in, and how concealable they really can be.

[teshilo]

Do NOT quote whole posts!

All conceable weapon this Only "LAST CHANCE WEAPON".

Without camouflaged firearm, poisoned throwing weapon and all things sorts as "HIT AND RUN", common thing in your pockets.

With help these you can got small dose of life. In use main speed and accuracy ...Crushed cigarette throw in face, pen stabbed in legs. All this needs training.

[Bando]

Reminds me of Ace Ventura when he pulls out has contact lens cracks it on the bar, "So you wanna play with glass." This wouldn't apply these days considering a majority of contacts aren't made of glass anymore. Sorry if this post is ridiculous, but the thread sparked my memory of it and i thought i should share my laugh.

[paroxysm]

Whether something is allowed on a plane or not is irrelevant, my cousin once got on board an aircraft with two 5l bottles filled with portuguese fire water (70% alchohol) and a lighter in the same carrier bag, in hand luggage.

And although some of those knives look cool, and may be useful, some of them would be impossibly difficult to machine yourself.

[anonymous411]

"Concealed weapons" and "improvised weapons" are two entirely different conceptual categories. Virtually anything can be used as an improvised weapon; you can kill somebody by shoving a pencil in the back of his neck at the brain stem, or using the old "toothpick in the carotid" trick. If I've got something hard, heavy, and/or sharp in my hand, I'm good to go.

Case in point: I once attended a policy lecture by a controversial public figure, and found myself sitting behind a guy I instinctively knew was going to be a problem. I quickly scanned the room, and decided if he did anything dangerous, I was going to whip the scarf off the neck of the lady sitting next to me and garotte him with it. Sure enough, he did start to cause a disturbance, but it was only standing up and heckling. Since it didn't really warrant the degree of force I had in mind, I calmly stood up, swiftly grabbed the collar of his shirt and twisted it into a compliance hold until he shut the fuck up, and other people muscled him out of there. So that's one kind of "improvised weapon" for you. Heh.

[Jacks Complete]

Last time I tried to fly, the bastards stole the duty-free we had bought after check-in, as they wouldn't allow glass bottles in hand luggage. Talk about a con!

I'm sitting within about 2 feet of hundreds of weapons. Many of them could be fatally applied if the need arose, but it all comes down to training and timing. In theory I could get an attacker to stop and OD on vitamin C tablets, but unless you are Derren Brown, that's not going to happen.

Unless you are sure, stick with what you are sure will work, and that you have to hand. Even a toaster can kill if you can swing it hard enough (thanks to Stephen King for that idea)

[festergrump]

Even a toaster can kill if you can swing it hard enough (thanks to Stephen King for that idea)

The scene from "Suicide Kings" (where Dennis Leary's character beat down the frisky step-dad of a link to his boss' kidnappers with a toaster) comes to mind...

Lethal? Not in this case, but it goes to show that extra weight in hand increases the effect of the inertia within a punch well landed.

He used it more like a bludgeon than a flail, even taking the time to carefully wrap the electrical cord around it first... :)

When anything and everything is a weapon to the right mind, how can weapons possibly be "regulated"???

[sbovisjb1]

Now this may sound k3wl, but ill give it a shot. (Sorry if it does). *IT DOES*

[anonymous411]

Here's one for the ladies in your life: I once heard of a woman who welded together four sizable rings with semi-precious faceted stones in them. The most elegant set of brass knuckles ever created! LOL

Speaking of stealthily-tough women, did you know Nancy Reagan packs heat? I heard she keeps a little gold .22 with a mother-of-pearl handle in her Chanel bag. ROTFLOL!!

[Defendu]

I once heard that you could use a metal lighter (Of the good zippo type) as a reinforcer for your hands.

I heard she keeps a little gold .22 with a mother-of-pearl handle in her Chanel bag. ROTFLOL!!

http://i11.tinypic.com/2rf965x.gif

[sbovisjb1]

Note taken... Like I said, any object can be an "Improvised" weapon. And the idea of a lighter, was just this... an idea. The best concealable weapon is one that you buy. Preferably a retractable police baton :D. Or a knife.

[Charlie Workman]

Actually, Nan was well known to keep a small .25 auto in her bed side table when she lived in the White House. When a reporter asked about it, she laughed and said it was "just a tiny little gun". Never heard of her packing in public, though. One of the reasons I always liked that lady. Lives in the most heavily defended residence on earth and still refuses to rely completely on others for her protection. It was rumored Ron kept a .45 in his bedside table, but this was never verified.

[Alexires]

The best concealable weapon is one that you buy. Preferably a retractable police baton :D. Or a knife.

I beg to differ. The best concealable weapons is....... something that you can conceal easily and is an effective weapon. Its like saying that just because you paid for it makes it better. Paying for it makes it worse in my opinion. Someone knows that you bought it and hence other people may know about it.

How often have we heard of a knife or baton being taken off the person and turned on them?

My advice would be wait until the last minute to play your hand. Don't let them know about the baton/knife/stick until it actually hits them. Forwarned is forearmed, and its just stupid giving your enemy more weapons than he has.

Personally, I like the idea of the sock+change flail. Concealable (it isnt around until you make it up) and easily hidden afterwards.

Keys on a keychain are another good one, but be wary of blood getting on your keys, leaving behind evidence.

[lewisimo]

I think the sensitivity of the metal detector machines as I travelled out of England i had no trouble wearing a studded belt through the machine which seems like a fair amount of metal to me. So it seems to me you could actually get an improvised weapon through..

[PhilAnarchist]

I was just about to mention the Cold Steel option!
However I do have another option that I use regularly.
1. hard to deloy but....using plexiglas of about 1/4" thickness shape it to match a credit card (height and width) then sharpen and serrate one side.
carry in wallet or elsewhere in pocket. with enough force it will cut leather.


Great Idea! I was actually thinking about this while I was reading the post before I came across yours. But thinking of having it made from a thinner piece of aluminum, sharpened on on side. Carry would be in a wallet.Carried on my left rear pocket.

[darkknight1975]

What about bringing on board a strong plastic (polycarbonate?) rod of roughly the same diameter of a pencil, a pencil sharpener, and a roll of duct tape.

Go into the toilet, sharpen the plastic with the sharpener, wrap the duct tape round the other end until you have an easily gripped handle (the normal plasic rod would be too skinny to get a good grip on), and you now have an effective stabbing weapon.

ceramic butcher knifes and steak knifes are available on the internet now that would pass through metal detecters easy . just do a google they are not cheap at least not to a poor bastard like me , but they are easy to get a hold of and slipped through . I dont think a knife is very much though against a man that is good with his hands and feet and determined to live. Live Free Die Well

[hatal]

ceramic butcher knifes and steak knifes are available on the internet now that would pass through metal detecters easy . just do a google they are not cheap at least not to a poor bastard like me , but they are easy to get a hold of and slipped through . I dont think a knife is very much though against a man that is good with his hands and feet and determined to live. Live Free Die Well

These knife are made from zirconium (di)oxide but many manufacturers also place a sufficient amount of metal (steel) inside the knife so it stays detectable by scanners.

So if you want to smuggle a ceramic knife be sure to choose the right one. The best choice would be "military grade" (no metal in it). Ofcourse, beside being expensive, thats even harder to get. (But not impossible :))

[prespec]

I can't wait for the next installment! Then we will all know how to make something we can throw .

[CricketSquish]

I found this video of a 4 shot .22 lr cell phone. It looks from the 80's or some shit, and these days it wouldn't be so inconspicuous I guess.

I would have put the chambers way more back to allow for more than 1" of barrel and hence more power and effective range. But hey, who is gonna put a scope on a phone anyway? Maybe an integral laser though!

Not enough room for a suppressor but that would be a definite plus! ;)


http://www.guzer.com/videos/cell_phone_gun.php

I just found this too. Notice it's .17 M2 Interesting.
http://www.guzer.com/videos/mini_machine_gun.php

[Jacks Complete]

That cellphone gun is indeed from the 80's. There was a big stink about them in the UK about two years ago.

Personally, I'd go for a single shot pen-gun. But I'd build it into a tweaked laser system that spat out a load of IR and green light at dangerous levels at the same time. Useful both for aiming and blinding.

[rollie]

Perhaps, following on from the discussion of concealable weapons that wold not be picked up by a metal detector, you could sharpen a "needle" out of a thin plastic rod and attach it to a syringe with your drug of choice in hand. Or even just sharpen the end of the syringe.

OR if you suffer from diabetes, swap your some of your insulin for something more "nasty". That way you don't have to conceal the weapon from security

[teshilo]

That cellphone gun is indeed from the 80's. There was a big stink about them in the UK about two years ago.

Personally, I'd go for a single shot pen-gun. But I'd build it into a tweaked laser system that spat out a load of IR and green light at dangerous levels at the same time. Useful both for aiming and blinding.
Yes these laser device described on GBBPR site also cutting weapon parts from broken CD or sharpened plastic VISA card .Or plastic tube filled with any CW agent. Used KGB in assasination gas pen gun filled prussic acid can be maked without any metal parts..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[MrCrowley45]

Couldn't you make a sharp knife out of PVC, with a PVC handle to get past airport security? PVC can be pretty sharp and it's not detected on x-ray machines.

[file]

While you could use PVC, if it does get found you'll have a tough time explaining why you have a PVC knife.

Now if you used a piece of glass(from something that looks like a picture frame) that happened to break in your luggage and the "frame" broke too(providing a means to grip the glass) you'd have a workable knife and a reason why you have a sharp piece of glass(part of the "picture frame" you brought on board)

[joffe]

PVC can be pretty sharp and it's not detected on x-ray machines.

I'm afraid you're mistaken there, a PVC-knife will turn up on a properly adjusted x-ray machine. They will pass through a metal detector though.

Now if you used a piece of glass
Glass is an extremely poor weapon. Sounds good in theory, but if you try it, you'll see how lousy it is. It might be useful for one stab or cut, but that's about it. And if the victim is wearing thick clothes, your chances with the glass knife will be drastically reduced. Besides, if a reasonably airport security guard found broken glass in your luggage, he'll most likely confiscate it.

[LibertyOrDeath]

In addition to x-rays and metal detectors, an increasing threat to carriers of concealed weapons is the use of millimeter and submillimeter waves. Basically, cameras that detect at such wavelengths can see right through your clothes (but not through biological tissue), thus making you appear stark naked and revealing anything you're carrying.

Here are a few articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millimeter_wave#Security
http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/17840/
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6118
http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=4362

Note that nonmetallic weapons can definitely be seen by these devices. And even though the "homeland security" pigs claim to care about your privacy (i.e., not seeing you naked), rest assured that in the future these cameras will be set up in public places -- perhaps hidden -- and will be used to view everyone bare-assed.

Doesn't it make you feel great that our tax dollars are being continually used to come up with newer and better high-tech ways to disarm and control us? :mad:

The good news is that these wavelengths don't penetrate metal. So, for example, hiding a weapon inside of an innocuous metal object while walking in a public place would defeat the technology. (Of course this doesn't apply to high-security areas where you have to walk through a metal detector or are otherwise subject to close inspection.)

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Just my opinion but many if not most men who have not worked in a corrections environment will not focus their attention on the genitals of another man. Women may crotch-watch but will feel somewhat embarrassed to do so in the company of others. Hiding objects along the shaft of one's penis or kiester stashing shit is still a viable option.

[chemdude1999]

Hiding objects along the shaft of one's penis or kiester stashing shit is still a viable option.

Well, there goes my idea for concealing a 1911.

I remember reading about those new devices in Popular Science IIRC. They implied they would have software that would blur the crotch area out. Riiiiight.

[hatal]

Solution: wear clothing similar to x-ray protective gear or clothes with metal fibers sewn (like aluminium)

[joffe]

Solution: wear clothing similar to x-ray protective gear or clothes with metal fibers sewn (like aluminium)

Not a very good idea. If something shows up blurry or unclear, it's standard procedure to do a manual search.

[nbk2000]

There are several areas that aren't visible to millimetric cameras, at least in the pictures I've seen:

1. Bottom of feet
2. Top of head
3. Inside of thighs

All of these pre-suppose that the object you're trying to hide is flat.

[A.C.E.]

Well, making a knife flat enough for concealing under your foot isn't so hard. Unless you have to remove your shoes you can hide something relatively large under your foot, you could even modify the sole of the shoe to provide extra room for your stash.

If you face the risk of beeing forced to take off your shoes or clothes you have a problem though. In this case the knife would have to be thin enough to be taped to your skin. If you're sure you won't face a metal detector using a steel blade is of course the best. The problem starts when you have to pass through both x-ray/mm-camera and metal detectors. This would call for a knife both very thin and non-metallic.

There are four materials (apart from metal) I know of that will hold an edge well enough to be used as a weapon, these are: horn, bone, stone and plastic. I've left ceramic materials out of this since noone I know has any knowledge of working with them. Mankind has been making knives and weapons out of these materials (except plastic) for thousands of years. I haven't been doing it quite that long but still, learning how to do it isn't hard.

The problem is that none of them can be made into a very thin knife if it is to have any durability at all. What remains is plastic, I'm currently working on making a thin (think 1-2mm) plastic knife that will hold together well enough for weapon use. I've made some progress by laminating thin plastic sheets with epoxi but I have to make the blades very wide (50-60mm.) to keep them from snapping on impact with the target. To solve this I would need some very strong but flexible material to add to the blade but I'm fresh out of ideas on what to use and I could use some help on the subject. A thin sheet of aluminium from a coke can worked really well, but last time i checked aluminium shoved up perfectly well on metal detectors.

The goal is making a knife with a blade no wider than 25mm. and at least 50mm. in length. Preferably from material that is readily available.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Whether it's a hand-held or a step through detector, it can be adjusted so that the zipper in one's pants or the fillings in one's teeth don't set it off. That's why the toothbrush razor trick worked until the authorities started to use detectors that worked on ferris/non-ferris metals and had adjustments. A non-ferris metal of light weight was presumed to be a zipper or tooth fillings but any small ferris metal was assumed to be a razor.

Plastic doesn't need to "hold" an edge. It simply needs to be sharp and strong enough to get the job done. If anyone really looks around any room the amount of weapons is unbelievable. You just need a bit a desire to to what needs be done.

If you think there is any truth at all to the 911 hijackings - they were done with the most basic of tools. The penetration of an edge or a point is not limited to the length of the metallic object alone but the pressure and position of the hand that holds it. Thus a "Buck knife" can puncture lungs; because the handle of the pocket knife plus the position of the hand make the blade longer than the blade measured alone.

The ideas for this are virtually endless. A sharpened steel tube (like a hypodermic needle) can act as a "trake-tube" and save a life or it can let someone bleed out fast as hell. Think of a metal pen sharpened on concrete, etc

[chemdude1999]

I like the idea of a large hypodermic. I'm not exactly sure on the concealment part. But a ruthless person could, in theory, incapacitate the target and bleed them out with it while they were unconscious.

Getting back to ACE's original thoughts and questions: Perhaps a layer or two of Kevlar could be adhered between the laminates of plastic to add strength against breakage. Or just make the whole thing out of fiberglass. However, I'm not sure about a signature in the forms of detection discussed so far.

[perrymk]

The problem is that none of them can be made into a very thin knife if it is to have any durability at all.

This is just a thought and I am not sure how practical. If the thickness is a problem how about carrying two thin, not so durable blades and putting them together when in use to make a slightly thicker and thus more durable blade? Sure it requires assembly but I'm sure the right design could simply snap or slide together in a second. Even just holding them together would add some strength to the blade.

[A.C.E.]

@Charles Owen Pricket: I agree, but it's much easier to fight with a proper knife that has a decent edge than to use something more or less improvised. Having a good, sharp edge will reduce the amount of force needed to penetrate the target thus putting less stress on the weapon. Believe me, having your weapon break while you're using it is a very bad thing. It happened to me when I tried to use a broken beerbottle, I was wearing gloves at the time which is most likely what saved my hand from permanent damage.

@chemdude: Good idea, I'll try to get a hold of some kevlar (I have an old army flak jacket I can butcher up for material) and give it a shot.

@perrymk: That could work, or if you had time to prepare your weapon inside the secure zone you could simply bring som instant glue and put it together just before it's needed.

[Charles Owlen Picket]

Screwdrivers work and don't break as do hammers. The world is filled with stuff to use: the trick is to relax and see what's all around you.

[thelasttrueone]

I have brought my old win95 laptop onto many flights with me. The funny thing about this laptop is it has no battery or floppy drive meaning the entire front half besides the tiny hdd is open space. One could fill that with anything really then just cover the anything with the outer casing of the battery and floppy drive. I have never been asked to turn it on anyways(would have to plug it in which is ridiculous) and I always think "in all that complicated wiring and circuitry how easy would it be to hide a detonator?". So yes a kilogram of some non nitrate explosive and a small fuse in the door of the floppy drive with matches in your pocket would be something one could do.

[Hirudinea]

I have brought my old win95 laptop onto many flights with me. The funny thing about this laptop is it has no battery or floppy drive meaning the entire front half besides the tiny hdd is open space. One could fill that with anything really then just cover the anything with the outer casing of the battery and floppy drive. I have never been asked to turn it on anyways(would have to plug it in which is ridiculous) and I always think "in all that complicated wiring and circuitry how easy would it be to hide a detonator?". So yes a kilogram of some non nitrate explosive and a small fuse in the door of the floppy drive with matches in your pocket would be something one could do.

I thought of somthing like that as well, and if you remove the HD and CD/DVD, replace the HD with a CF Card, you could use the space for explosives and use the battery to set off the fuse, just put a small switch in an unnoticeable space and you have a nice little suicide bomb.