visco fuse alternative = luc's fuse

[pyroluc]

hi :)
I have a good way to made a fuse (but i speak not very well english.)
so, my homemade fuse is made from kitchen string (linen), NaClO3, sugar, sulphur (gardening grade, dissolvable in water) and if you want a little qty of choarcal powder.
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345436.fic.jpg
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345448.produit.jpg

1--
put the string around a sheet of hard plastic or of metal like in the pics
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345439.fic1.jpg

2--
dissolve 6.5 gr of NaClO3 and 2 gr of sugar in 8 gr of water
once it's dissolve add 1 g sulphur and a bit qty of choarcoal
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345429.adw.jpg

3--
apply this mixture on the string with a brush
and let dry
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345443.pinc.JPG

4--
now you must braid two wire, use a drilling machine for this, it is less
tiring. especially if you want to manufacture more than two meters of fuse
http://genji.image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345442.perceuse.jpg

5--
ok now apply an other coats of the step 2 mixture with a brush
and let dry

6--
you should cut a litle piece of this fuse to see whether it does not miss the oxidyser
I think that with these proportions it misses a little chlorate
so apply a little layer of chlorate.

7--
since the NaClO3 is hygroscopique, you should coat your fuse with celluloid
apply nc lacquer with a brush several time.
http://image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345364.5mm.jpg

your fuse is ready !!!! congratulations
http://image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345358.2m.jpg


my fuse work very good, is very reliable and I have never had problem with
it burn at about 0.5 cm per second consistantly
"sometimes" is waterproof, not ever...
you shouldn't use hot glue with it, or try before...
be careful if you made this smoke device http://www.unitednuclear.com/smoke.htm
don't insert the fuse while the device is yet hot...


movie of this fuse: ( I can't let it for long time, so last week, i will remove this link )
open with quicktime about 3.5 MO each
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lupyr/fuse/underwater.AVI
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lupyr/fuse/dep.AVI
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lupyr/fuse/lucs.AVI
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lupyr/fuse/serj.AVI

VOILA give me your opinion above :D ;)

[Tuatara]

I was under the impression that combining chlorates with sulphur was a Bad Idea. Too prone to spontaneous ignition due to friction etc.

[blindreeper]

I was thinking the same thing Tautara, but it sounds like a good idea even though the links don't work for even when copied and pasted - I get some forbidden crap.
Sounds good but I'd personally rather stick with my BP fuse but good work any who!

[pyroluc]

http://www.pbase.com/pyroluc/inbox
it should work

I know that mixture with chlorate and suphur are dangerous but professional pyrotechnics device are sometime made with this tow compound.
and there isn't accident each time that you mix sulphur with chlorate...

[zaibatsu]

Since you have NaClO3, why don't you have a go at the fuse I use in low risk applications? This is using NaClO3 weedkiller, which is about 51/49 NaClO3/NaCl, although I'm sure you can add something to the NaClO3 to slow the burn rate. Simply create a saturated solution of the weedkiller, pour over a sheet of kitchen roll (disposable absorbant paper, stronger than toilet paper) and let it dry. When it's dry just cut a rectangle out and roll it up.

[Crazy Swede]

First of all, this fuse would be very dangerous since it could spontaneously ignite on its own and there would also be a serious risk of ignition by friction if cut!

Secondly, sulphur is insoluble in water! So, what do you mean with “gardening grade, dissolvable in water”?

Finally, all commercial compositions containing sulphur/sulphur compounds and chlorates ALWAYS have some kind of pH buffer additive. Usually some carbonate is used.

[blindreeper]

Hmm I am going to give this a go with BP. Or maybe KNO3 sugar whatever floats my boat and I'll let you in on results but it's bed time now - I hate assignments ARRGGHHH!

[Mr Cool]

It looks nice, but I'm sure it would still work and be much safer without the sulphur. Although if it is water soluble, then it is not in fact sulphur... perhaps it is a sulphate of something, that gives plants sulphur in a water-soluble form? Does this "sulphur" burn on its own?

Has anyone else seen that heat-shrink tubing, it has some uses in electronics for covering up soldered joints etc, to prevent short-circuits? I've always thought that would be good around a chlorate/string fuse to waterproof it. Simply make and dry the fuse as normal, insert it into some of the tubing, and shrink it with the heat from a hairdrier. I am not sure how much it costs though.

[pyroluc]

I buy sulphur in a jardinnery (gardening store), it's 80% pure sulphur and it burn like sulphur (little blue flame). I know that sulphur do not dissolve in water, but that is treated for. (micronisé)

i never had problem while cutting the fuse...;) i could cut 1000 time my fuse, i'm sure that it will don't ignite itself.
I'll try to add carbonate at the mix

I don't think that if I remove the sulphur the fuse will be as well, but i'll try.
heat-shrink tubing is "gaine thermoretractable" in french and it cost about 2 euro the meter, I don't think that it's a good way to made waterproof fuse since it's not cheap, but i'm sure that it work .

i don't like absorbant paper fuse, it's not a true good fuse, it's just an improvised fuse
can you made a long fuse with it ?
waterproof ?
a little thickness of less than 2 mm ?
and the burn rate is not as good

[Mr Cool]

"i never had problem while cutting the fuse"

No, not yet... Chlorate/sulphur mixtures have been proven to be unsafe. Maybe it will never spontaneously ignite, but then again, maybe it will while you're inserting it into a large explosive charge. Either remove it, and use a little more charcoal, or AT LEAST add some carbonate.
2 Euros/metre for the tubing is pretty cheap, and it'd save a lot of work compared to your method. I'll try it.

Anyway, that fuse of yours is very nice, I'm just concerned about the sulphur...

[GibboNet]

Here, heat shrink tubing is way to expensive for fuse, considering the alternatives. Maybe for a few trials, or waterproof.

The last fuse I made was BP, wet, piped into a hollow cored string. It was parachute cord, which I assume is the same design the world over, and has strong threads inside an olive green outer wrap.

I planned to NC laquer it, but I never go to do that, I had to much fun burning it. In fact, it burned a bit to fast at times, I sat pieces on the ground, and the shot off as the BP burned up the string's centre, making rockets. :D

While it's always great to get new ideas, that fuse's major flaw, the use of sulfur, is a drawback. The fact that you didn't know that sulfur was insoluble doesn't inspire much confidence either.

[pyroluc]

The fact that you didn't know that sulfur was insoluble doesn't inspire much confidence either.
I know that the sulphur don't dissolve in water :mad: :mad:
for example, choarcal isn't dissovable, ok
if you put your C in a very very very fine powder, you can "dissolve 1 " it in water more easily that if you use coarse powder.

1 : dissolve is certainly not the good word for this... I don't know !!!!

[frogfot]

Nice presentation, with movies (first time I see homemade fuse burn under water). :)
NC coating on your fuse inspired me to test, one could call it "Silicone laquer". It's just some silicone sealant with as much as you want ethylacetate (nailpolish grade), resulting homogenous goo can be used as paint. I painted a piece of metal yesterday and it aligned in fine layer. Today it's nearly dry and elastic as silicone should be, though still it have some time to dry (maby nailpolish additives are bugging)
My suggestion would be to try substituting NC with this silicone laquer. It should hold better during burn and therefore protect better fire from water. It's also more elastic than NC. (this laquer sure have many other uses)

EDIT: by dissolving he meant make the mix homogenous...

[pyroluc]

frogfot, your idea with silicon looks like very good, i'll try it soon.
do you think that we can use dry silicon instead of silicon sealant. any pieces of silicon ?? tubing,prosthesis..
it's true that the nc lacquer, when dry, is hard and can be broke easily.
I was for long time in looking for a silicon solvent, thanks :)

[frogfot]

Seems that dry silicone isn't soluble in ethyl acetate (unless you meant some special brand name of "dry silicone" :rolleyes: )
Wanned to add that nail polish have to be redestilled, it contains some heavy oils that will disturb elasticy of silicone (wrote this also in OTC survey thread to remain on topic).

[Marvin]

I'm under the impression that heatshrink needs to be heated to something like 150C to shrink, thats a tad warm for chlorate sulphur mix.

I really dont like chlorate sulphur mixes at all, with or without calcium carbonate for example. Chlorate mixtures can be safe provided rules are followed carefully, but its much more complicated to do safely than with nitrates or perchlorates. The main problem with the mix as is, is that it will degrade on storage, and the rate will depend on a lot of factors including moisture. The degraded mix can be vastly more sensative to shock, friction, and self ignition/detonation than the fresh stuff. In such a thin aspect, its unlikley self ignition or detonation will be much of a problem, using this mix is still playing the odds though. With an antacid, I have no idea how much safer the mix is and to me thats just as much a 'dont use' situation as knowing something is hazardous.

While experienced users might feel safe experimenting with chlorates, I dont think a mixture with them in is a general solution, just one a few people desperate enough or too new at this to know any better might resort to.

I think the term you are looking for pyroluc instead of dissolve, is 'slurry' as in the production of quickmatch.

[Chemical_burn]

Originally posted by Marvin
I'm under the impression that heatshrink needs to be heated to something like 150C to shrink, thats a tad warm for chlorate sulphur mix.



Hmmm im not %100 sure thats correct as I have noticed Heatshrink tubeing shrink up on me before when I left it in the car. It was in teh sun with the windows up. Thats no where near 150C maybe 80C or 90C but not 150C.
The reason I remember this is I was working on some electrical work at home. It pissed me off when I had to drive back to the radio shack to get more tubeing.

Also besides heatshrink tubeing couldn't one use thin straws like a coffee swizzle stick or something like that. Seeing as its a lot cheaper even if it doesn't come in very long lengths.

[Anthony]

Yeah, as long as they'll shrink around the fuse, otherwise it'll form quickmatch and give virtually no delay.

[Tuatara]

In the catalog on my desk is 'low temp' shrink that shrinks at 80C, and high temp shrink that need 175C, and practically everything in between. You can also buy both PVC and polyolefin shrink tube, the polyolefin being twice the price of PVC, but remaining flexible after shrinking.

[blindreeper]

I tried it with BP but no NC coating it was better than most fuses but broke easily and was inconsistent. I have about 20g of KClO3 left from a boiling down bleach so do you think maybe 10g KClO3 and 2g Sugar and 2g charcoal would be good for this fuse? It's jsut I don't want to waste my KClO3.

[pyroluc]

i tried with KNO3 instead of NaClO3 but it don't work...

blindreeper ;
the KClO3 is less soluble in water, so you should heat the mixture or coat several time.
if you put 2 grams of choarcal, you will get a slurry rather than a fluid liquid. so you must put your choarcal in a very fine powder like never.
i think that 7 gram of KClO3
and 2 gram of sugar
and 1 to 1.5 gram of C should be good

[blindreeper]

Sorry for the one line questions but luc do you think about 10ml of water will do the trick? I am going to try this as soon as I get some DBSP or ping pong balls whatever comes first.

[pyroluc]

10 ml should be good yes.
if all the chlorate don't dissolve, you can add water, it's not a problem since you can apply several layers of the mix, or heat the mix.

I hope to answer has your question

[zaibatsu]

Why not just make a H3 slurry for the fuse blindreeper? Why add the sugar?

[blindreeper]

I was under the impression that H3 burnt very fast. I have tried it with coarse materials and it was kinda fast - like CIA BP. If I used coarse stuff the fuse would be inconsistent IMHO. But when ever I have tried KClO3/suagr it burns rather slow.
Maybe if I desire a fast fuse I'll use H3 but I think I'll try with:
7g KClO3
2g Sugar
1g Charcoal
10ml water

Thats tomorrow afternoons thing-to-do. Just need some ping pong balls.

pyroluc - You said you used celluloid coating. It's yellow so it isn't a NC coating... what is it?

[Skean Dhu]

as a possible sealant for fuse have you ever considered "shoe goo (tm)" ? its used in the repair of old/worn out shoes, some sort of glues that bonds the sole and parts back together , i'll try some when i get around to making a KNO3/sugar solution.

on side note blindreeper i was wondering about how you got KCLO3 from bleach? is it similar to the way shown in NBK's PDF(using bleach/HTH and KCL)? cause i posted that in another thread and they quickly shot it down because of solubility.

[a_bab]

Quote:
pyroluc - You said you used celluloid coating. It's yellow so it isn't a NC coating... what is it?
End of quote

I guess it's yellow because of the sulphur, as he is not using charcoal. The NC coating it's either transparent or white.

[pyroluc]

I use celluloid from ping-pong ball.
I dissolve it in acetone so I obtain NC lacquer , i'm wrong ??
or maybe NC lacquer is nitrocellulose dissolve in acetone, I'm sorry if it is..:eek:

my ping-pong ball was yellow
http://image.pbase.com/u4/pyroluc/upload/20345364.5mm.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/image/20345364
it's not the sulphur that give the yellow color ;-) and on this fuse, i have put a bit qty of choarcal,but it s hard to see.

questions : what will say :
H3
CIA BP
IMHO

[Mr Cool]

Pyroluc:

H3: A mixture of KClO3 and charcoal, roughly 25% charcoal. It will burn VERY fast if it is made well.

CIA BP: Black Powder made by the "CIA method," in which KNO3 is precipitated from a boiling, saturated solution by dumping it into alcohol, to cool it rapidly. This precipitates very small crystals of KNO3, so that the burn rate is good when it is mixed with the C and S. Most believe it to be inferior to the ball milling method.

IMHO: an abbreviation for "In My Humble Opinion."

[grammarless]

Pyroluc- I have been looking for NC ping-pong balls and I have not found any. So I was wondering what brand the Ping-pong balls you used.

[a_bab]

The ping pong balls are made of celluloid, which is the first plastic mass ever invented. It's composed of low nitrated NC and camphor; if scratched, or better cut, such a ball will emit a smell close to the mint (it's the camphor). Also if lit, it'll burn quite fast. Most of the balls are made of celluloid, but some are not.

[pyroluc]

Thanks Mr Cool;)

grammarless, what is your country ?
my ping-p ball brand is "inesis" sell in the "decathlon" store:
http://www.decathlon.fr/Magasin/famille.asp?int%5FDeptId=21088&int%5FDeptPereId=412&mscssid=8DXH7QGM3ETV9K1JHLMRN50TW91C83C9
I live in france...i could use any brand

So there is a specifical name for a mixture of celluloid and acetone ???

[a_bab]

Everybody call it NC lacquer, as it contains lots of NC. It's not as good as pure NC lacquer, but it still does the job :D It is recomended though to specify what did you used to make it: pure NC or ping pong balls, as there may be confusions. You can't use it to mage gelignite, but it's perfect for AP putty, or stars.

[VinniBOOM]

I really hope your fuse is not connected to a device, salute, rocket etc. and being stored indoors. Chlorate/sulphurs mixtures can spontaneously ignite - therefore if this fuse was to ignite while connected to a homemade rocket indoors...well...ouch, painful. Nice pics and presentation though.