Acid Attacks

[MrSamosa]

Take a look at this BBC Article, about a woman in Pakistan who was the victim of an acid attack...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3097469.stm

Personally, I find Acid Attacks to be one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. People say Rape has life-time effects, but I can't see how it compares to being burnt by Acid. It's actaully very sad, especially how the woman was saying, "We didn't know that washing away the acid would have meant less damage."

But, I do have a sadistic side. In NBK's PDF, he mentions that rape can be a form of Torture/Intimidation... But, rape goes against some people's morals. In place of that, in perhaps even more effectively, one can use Acid as a means of intimidation/retribution against informants or enemies. It is indeed a fate worse than death- to turn them into "living corpses."

Also, it doesn't seem to be a very difficult task, it leaves less DNA evidence, and it is cheap! Really- how easily can you buy a Liter of Sulfuric Acid or even Hydrochloric Acid at the Hardware Store?? If you are feeling especially sadistic, you could use Piranha fluid...nothing like igniting someone's flesh, so that when they cry, "I'm on fire!" they'll be telling the truth :D . Alternately, maybe Hydrofluoric Acid. Even in the dilute 2% solutions, if you pour the whole 500 mL bottle on someone, it should kill them (especially if they don't even know what was poured on them- thus the Paramedics would not know to use Calcium Gluconate).

Ultimately though, I simply cannot respect Acid attacks on the basis of, "She rejected my advances," or some crap like that. But as a means of intimidation and retribution against Informants and Enemies, then it gains a bit of respectability. ;)

[mrnoface]

What do you mean when you say "Piranha fluid" i have never heard of the stuff..

- mnf

[Rhadon]

mrnoface: This would have been an excellent possibility to do a search. Just to show you that this has already been discussed, go here (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?threadid=734&postid=13826#post13826) to get to the post in which MrSamosa mentioned the composition of "piranha fluid". This time I did the work for you, next time you can do it on your own.

MrSamosa: Although it looks much too hard for most acts of revenge to me, this method may be applicable in very severe cases. Then the question is which compound will be the most harmful one. I'd probably go with aqua regia or even better conc. NaOH solution (the substance used would not necessarily have to ba acidic) because HF is both hard to acquire and does kill too fast.

I doubt that "piranha fluid" would literally set a body on fire tough, alone for the fact that there is so much water in it.

[nbk2000]

Ah, but the hair of the head, and any clothes the victim was wearing, would be highly susceptable to ignition. :)

HF would be lethal, defeating the whole point of using acid, since it's intended to mutilate the victim, while leaving them alive as a living example to warn others.

Lye is also excellent, since it dissolves flesh quite readily, and without nasty fumes.

The whole point of using this technique would be as a punishment for criminals to use against informers/undercovers and others who piss them off? In which case the victim has to remain alive, because a corpse is buried and soon forgotten, but a scarred (and living) victim is a constant reminder. ;)

[jelly]

...but a scarred (and living) victim is a constant reminder.
... and your worst enemy, if you haven't blinded him!

[Chemical_burn]

Originally posted by jelly
... and your worst enemy, if you haven't blinded him!

I hear you there man.

Also I would agree with NBK2000 that LYE would work probably better because the first thing there gona do is try and throw water on the burn :eek: I would hate to be them :D

[nbk2000]

I'd assume you're doing a good job of it and having them immobilized/restrained prior to burning them, specifically so they can't wash it off, and you can be sure to blind them. ;)

[MrSamosa]

I once had a Lye/Water/Aluminum crap solution on my face, neck, and arms once, due to a k3wL pressure-bottle... Let me tell you- it does NOT come off easily. As you know, bases are oily, and I was unlucky enough to have the solution be sticky as well! All in all, it stayed on me for about 3 minutes, so I lost a little bit of skin to it (not too much damage, at least I had the sense to turn away and dive before the bottle burst).

If you were to attack the victim in their sleep, there would be little need to even restrain them. Though you would wake them up, they would have no clue what is going on or why they are in so much pain. In the time it takes for them to get their bearings, damage has already been done- especially if you were to get their eyes!

[Rhadon]

once had a Lye/Water/Aluminum crap solution on my face, neck, and arms once, due to a k3wL pressure-bottle...
About the same happened to me some years ago when I was doing one of my first chemistry experiments and tried to produce hydrogen :). The bottle didn't burst and it only hit my hand, but I can agree that it's hard to get it off.

Adding aluminum to the NaOH solution just prior to use in an acid attack should improve the results because of the heat evolved, so this might be especially useful if you don't want to preheat your mixture.

[Kid Orgo]

There's a commercially available product called "Peel-Away'" that claims to be able to remove 30 coats of paint at a go, safely and quickly. That claim is almost entirely false. Although easier than sanding the paint off, it's neither safe nor quick. The active ingredient: NaOH. And lots of it. I had the unfortunate experience of de-leading a house with this shit.

Any cuts on you will burn like a motherfuck, and if even a fraction of a drop stays on your skin, it'll MAKE a pretty solid burn. We of course had vinegar. The only thing that approaches the pain of Peel-Away inside your glove is a spray bottle of vinegar to neutralize it.

A doctor I know told me that standard treatment for lye burns is to douse the burn it water, because the addition of acid to neutralize the burn makes it worse. It goes against what some people here said, (but Kid, how could Fight Club be WRONG?) but from how much it hurts to neutralize that shit, it might be true.




Before anyone starts to correct me, I realize now that it probably should have been a little bit more dilute of a vinegar solution. And a spray bottle is probably not the way to apply it. Oh well.

[xyz]

The reason that acid can cause more damage is the heat produced when it neutralizes the base. It can also cause more burns if it is a strong acid.

Here in Australia, NaOH comes in the form of small round pellets about 3mm in diameter. How about reloading a shotshell with these in place of shot and reducing the powder charge so that the pellets only penetrate about 1cm under the skin. It would hurt like fuck and could not be removed in a hurry.

[Aaron-V2.0]

I've pondered that idea a few weeks ago XYZ when thinking of a suitale punishment for a Pimp daddy wannabe in my area. A lye pellet shotshell would be a sick twist to the classic rocksalt shell all the farmers around here use.

[Flake2m]

That has just given me a nastier idea still.
As you know, paintball ammo uses a non-toxic water based paint. Would it be possible to syringe out the filling from the ammo and either add some NaOH/HCl to the paint and reseal the the paintball so it can be fired?
OK, so its not a new idea but it adds a new reason to why you need to avoid getting hit in paintball. You could also give some d00d you dislike a hardtime buy capping him in the back of the head with a NaOH/HCl paintball. :p Not only wil they have a head ache but some nasty burns to go with it.

[Cyclonite]

Paintball coatings dissolve in water, im think that HCL would eat it away faster. Im not sure though

[sauvin]

Once a shotgun is used to hurl anything besides gunpowder and various metals (brass, lead, etc), I think it would be unwise to ever use said weapon again in the manner intended. I would in particular refuse to use slugs in such a weapon.

Rock salt is corrosive enough - using any lye-like compound would be much worse, and if I don't make mistake, barrel wall thickness attrition would be correspondingly worse.

Unless, of course, the acid or base being hurled were solidly encased, perhaps a thin-walled polypropylene, to rupture dramatically only on impact with the target.

I, personally, am considering arming a small squirt bottle easily concealed in a coat pocket with a relatively high concentration of HF. When I say "You'll get nothing from me, motherfucker", it'd be nice to be able to do so *quietly* and move unobtrusively away at a reasonable pace.

The problem I'm having with HF is that I've seen reports that suggest that HF doesn't necessarily produce burning sensations right away. Something would have to be mixed with it to produce at least a mild burning sensation while the HF takes its time announcing itself.

[Anthony]

You could use an old gun to fire the NaOH from, so the corrosion doens't really matter, or you could clean the barrel after use. Maybe coat the pellets in wax, as long as either pellets break up, or the wax breaks off before or during target penetration.

A squirt bottle of HF would be unneccesarily dangerous IMO. An strong acid or base would be just as (if not more) immediately effective and wouldn't have the nasty side-effect of death - dead people prompt serious politz investigations.

Besides you're going to be carrying this thing everyday and how often do you think you'll need it? All that time you're carrying it and not being mugged, you're putting your own health at risk. What if you fall over, or you bump into something, or someone bumps into you and squashes the bottle?

At best you'd have permanent injury at worst you'd end up a dead man, assuming a reasonable amount of acid and you not having immediate access to copious amounts of water and calcium gluconate gel, which would be likely on the street.

Overall, I think you would be the one most at risk from the device meant to protect you.

[nbk2000]

Concentrated lye would be much safer than HF to be carrying next to "The Jewels" ;). HF can burn or poison you with no warning. Lye...you'll feel that almost immediately, at least having a chance to do something about it.

You'll also want something that'll make an attacker claw his eyes out from the pain as his face slides off the bone of his skull. :) HF, while possibly lethal, would take hours to do so, and wouldn't stop an attacker from stomping your ass in the meantime. :(

[sauvin]

Perhaps.

Few people ever even consider putting me in a position where I might seriously believe my life be at hasard, for whatever reason. I'm told I simply have a forbidding presence. For this reason, I would assume that anybody who does "dare" accost me would tend to be, you should pardon a bad pun, deadly earnest and probably desperate and therefore unpredictable.

As cold as it may sound, the Big City streets can be an exercise in practical Darwinistics. The strong, the clever and the well-armed survive. If some thug does accost me, and I squirt his eyes with something too mild, my life is necessarily at risk in any event. I do not want said thug remembering me next time he sees me, and so I should be most inclined to arrange that he never see me again.

As for serious investigations, if said thug have a "rap sheet" a mile long, in a time and place where murder takes second place to drugs, I shouldn't lose much sleep.

[xyz]

About the corrosiveness of an NaOH shell, you could either use a simple 3/4" pipe shotgun, or you could give the NaOH pellets a quick spray with some furniture varnish or paint, then load then into the shell while wet (you have sealed around the wad with wax of course to stop the powder getting wet). This should make them have a protective coating on them but they will also stick together, they should come apart upon firing though.

They would be loaded wet and then you leave them to dry inside the shell before you crimp the top. If you waited for them to dry before loading, they would be stuck togehter in one huge mass.